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Steer me on a skid steer

Biggest decisions are weight and tracks or wheels.

A bigger machine can lift and move more than a smaller machine but may get stuck or not fit where a smaller machine would be fine.

Tracks vs wheels are preference and condition based. Wheels are better on hard surfaces and tracks a better on soft and rougher surfaces. Tracks are about double the cost of wheels though.

Pre 2012 machine, emissions, and pick whatever the local guys are running.
 
Biggest decisions are weight and tracks or wheels.

A bigger machine can lift and move more than a smaller machine but may get stuck or not fit where a smaller machine would be fine.

Tracks vs wheels are preference and condition based. Wheels are better on hard surfaces and tracks a better on soft and rougher surfaces. Tracks are about double the cost of wheels though.

Pre 2012 machine, emissions, and pick whatever the local guys are running.

If it's under 75 HP it won't have DEF/DPF.

If I can help it I would rather have a compact wheel loader versus a skid steer unless I have to use it in tight spaces or do something like clean barn stalls. More capacity, easier to work on, and it tears less stuff up. If you have a lot of mud to deal with then I would go CTL.

Since it's your only machine and it doesn't appear you have a lot of previous experience whatever controls and machine you buy will be your baseline comfort. Just because the Internet hates a control scheme doesn't mean anything if you don't run anything else.
 
Having had hand/foot and EOH… hand/foot with better. Electric over hydraulic doesn’t seem to have as much force or responsiveness
Depends on what brand machine you run. I learned hand/foot back in the early 80’s. Then learned ISO (joystick controls) in the mid 2000’s. I learned ISO on the Deere machines and through the years they have it dialed in very nice. I have a Deere 333G at home that I use with ISO and love using it but obviously I can no longer use hand/foot controls anymore.

I dropped off a new bobcat rubber tired skid steer loader today which has switchable controls on it. I’ve operated several bobcat machines throughout the years and never understood how people can operate them all day without getting pissed off. Worst ISO controls out there and the new unit I ran this morning, no difference in it. The boom moved better then years ago but the traction drive sucked ass. Stupid slow and out of sync with the boom bucket cycle times.

Hand/foot controls hand their own issues on any machine that offers them. Down sides are, as the Case sales reps say, like a monkey fucking a football. Biggest issue is with the foot pedals operating them for a length of time. They will kill your knees more than anything. You’ll get out of the machine in very sore shape after bouncing around for hours operating it. With ISO controls, steering -forward reverse is left joystick, boom bucket is right controller. You only really use your left hand most all the time. If you operate a tractor with a front loader on it, the wobble stick is on your right side and same pattern as the boom bucket on an ISO control skid steer loader.

Rubber tired machines are great but I disagree they are smoother than a track loader. You will bounce around a lot more operating a rubber tired skid steer loader. There isn’t necessarily less moving parts in a skid steer vs ctl but there’s not much to go wrong on the drivetrain of a modern skid steer loader drivetrain. One drive motor per side -left and right and usually mounted between the front and rear wheel drive axles. Prestressed drive chains with NO master link in them. They run in their own lubricant oil chain cases. Failures can and will happen to the drive system if you run the following setup on them. Foam filled tires and OTT steel tracks. If a rock large enough to not fall through the track pads and you force the machine to move in a given direction, the rock will be forced between the steel track and the foam filled tire which won’t give. The weak link will be a rear drive chain breaking. Then when the operator keeps trying to move the machine after the rear chain brakes, it’ll wad up in the bottom of the chain case and the wheel axle sprockets will force the wadded up chain into the chain case bending it down until it rips a hole in it. Its best to run solid R4 wheels and tires with holes cast in the sidewalls. This will allow a rock to pass between the tire and steel tracks for the most part.

OP, if you buy a new machine from anyone, I highly recommend buying as much extended warranty as possible on the machine. Deere offers powertrain drivetrain plus hydraulics extended warranty up to an additional three years past the oem 2 years full machine. It’s not that you’ll really need to use it, but if you do, it will pay for itself very fast. The cost to repair equipment like this today is crazy expensive and only going to get more expensive.
 
Depends on what brand machine you run. I learned hand/foot back in the early 80’s. Then learned ISO (joystick controls) in the mid 2000’s. I learned ISO on the Deere machines and through the years they have it dialed in very nice. I have a Deere 333G at home that I use with ISO and love using it but obviously I can no longer use hand/foot controls anymore.

I dropped off a new bobcat rubber tired skid steer loader today which has switchable controls on it. I’ve operated several bobcat machines throughout the years and never understood how people can operate them all day without getting pissed off. Worst ISO controls out there and the new unit I ran this morning, no difference in it. The boom moved better then years ago but the traction drive sucked ass. Stupid slow and out of sync with the boom bucket cycle times.

Hand/foot controls hand their own issues on any machine that offers them. Down sides are, as the Case sales reps say, like a monkey fucking a football. Biggest issue is with the foot pedals operating them for a length of time. They will kill your knees more than anything. You’ll get out of the machine in very sore shape after bouncing around for hours operating it. With ISO controls, steering -forward reverse is left joystick, boom bucket is right controller. You only really use your left hand most all the time. If you operate a tractor with a front loader on it, the wobble stick is on your right side and same pattern as the boom bucket on an ISO control skid steer loader.

Rubber tired machines are great but I disagree they are smoother than a track loader. You will bounce around a lot more operating a rubber tired skid steer loader. There isn’t necessarily less moving parts in a skid steer vs ctl but there’s not much to go wrong on the drivetrain of a modern skid steer loader drivetrain. One drive motor per side -left and right and usually mounted between the front and rear wheel drive axles. Prestressed drive chains with NO master link in them. They run in their own lubricant oil chain cases. Failures can and will happen to the drive system if you run the following setup on them. Foam filled tires and OTT steel tracks. If a rock large enough to not fall through the track pads and you force the machine to move in a given direction, the rock will be forced between the steel track and the foam filled tire which won’t give. The weak link will be a rear drive chain breaking. Then when the operator keeps trying to move the machine after the rear chain brakes, it’ll wad up in the bottom of the chain case and the wheel axle sprockets will force the wadded up chain into the chain case bending it down until it rips a hole in it. Its best to run solid R4 wheels and tires with holes cast in the sidewalls. This will allow a rock to pass between the tire and steel tracks for the most part.

OP, if you buy a new machine from anyone, I highly recommend buying as much extended warranty as possible on the machine. Deere offers powertrain drivetrain plus hydraulics extended warranty up to an additional three years past the oem 2 years full machine. It’s not that you’ll really need to use it, but if you do, it will pay for itself very fast. The cost to repair equipment like this today is crazy expensive and only going to get more expensive.

Damn thanks. Good info
 
As I've said I bought a 2007 TL150 for $18500 back in 2018. I've had about half that much in total repairs between AC undercarriage fuel system and air intake over 6 years. It's a very strong machine and operates very well. Rear track roller failed last week and a replacement is $750 online but I have a local aftermarket undercarriage distributor and got it for $435 otd. The TL150 is strong enough to bend up cheap buckets.
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If it's under 75 HP it won't have DEF/DPF.

If I can help it I would rather have a compact wheel loader versus a skid steer unless I have to use it in tight spaces or do something like clean barn stalls. More capacity, easier to work on, and it tears less stuff up. If you have a lot of mud to deal with then I would go CTL.

Since it's your only machine and it doesn't appear you have a lot of previous experience whatever controls and machine you buy will be your baseline comfort. Just because the Internet hates a control scheme doesn't mean anything if you don't run anything else.

25-75hp has dpf 75hp+ has def
 
I have a Deere ls180 with low hours I’m about to sell it has hand/foot controls. My Takeuchi's are joystick machines. I put people on them that have never run equipment. But neither are very difficult to run. I’ve seen guys make them all dance.
 
OP, you're in a similar situation I was in 4 years ago. I bought a piece of land that needed some work done and I also owned a bunch of heavy shop machinery (lathe, Bridgeport, welding tables, etc) that I needed to move to the shop on said new property. I grew up in a family owned JD Dealership, then when my dad retired he sold Bobcat for a bit and now is selling Deere again. I've been around machinery and agriculture / construction my entire life so I feel like I have reasonable exposure to give some guidance here.

Back in '20, my dad talked me into buying an early 2000s Bobcat T190. It has a vertical lift system, hand and foot controls, but has enough aux flow to run some small attachments like an auger or the brush mower that I made from an old bushhog. It was a great decision. Parts are all still easily available and the controls are cheap and simple to work on. Hand and foot controls are better for a machine that isn't an all day production machine and that you don't want to dump a ton of money into if you have to replace a joystick. Easy manual adjustments, no computer calibrations, and actual feedback from the pumps. If you are finding that your ankles are sore at the end of the day, try wearing lower top shoes like hiking boots instead of half calf. Also, keeping the rocker and linkage bushings in good shape in the pedals and rods is important. As they wear, it takes more motion to operate the controls and it reduces the control resolution when cutting grade. $30 in bushings and 45 minutes of work will make a HFC machine operate like a dream again. Also, if you're a bigger person, you won't like HFC because of just general ergonomics.

Tracks vs tires... my experience is that tire machines are for improved or semi-improved surfaces and tracks are for going off in the mud and woods. Yes, tracking over roots sucks in a track machine because every damn bogie gives you a bump, however the stability and overall traction is much better. Tires will get you stuck on wet clay though. Track maintenance is expensive but for MY usage, its worth it. I'd have turned over and sank a tire machine several times using it the way I use my CTL.

I spent 9 hours in my T190 yesterday helping a friend clean up some property and tear up a plywood addition on an abandoned house on some property he bought. The machine spent the day tearing, crushing, carrying and loading a revolution of dump trailers. My ankles are fine and I have MS and I'm 40... I am leaving the house here in a minute with the same machine to go move a bunch of backfill at a friend's brewery where they are building a shop themselves and its time to finish the grade.

I've put some time and work and parts into this machine, but I have also put 790 hours on it in 4-1/2 years working on my property, the family farm, and helping out friends like yesterday and today.

In regards to buying new machinery - financing can be weird with buying it as a personal thing and not a business. I bought a '24 Bobcat E48 cab mini-ex back in March (after pricing and looking at Tak, Deere, CAT, Bobcat, Yanmar, and Develon,) and Bobcat was the best match for my personal use and overall cost point for a roughly 5T mini. I know a lot of people hate Bobcat but I hate Kubota equipment (even though I do like their engines, such as the one that is in this T190). A lot of people Hate Bobcat but its a decent mid-level machine at a mid-level cost. Its not junk, but its not super HD commercial CAT.

20240907_110946.jpg


20240825_102522.jpg


Its also amazing the tasks I come up with for the machine.

20231016_161420 (1).jpg
 
OP, you're in a similar situation I was in 4 years ago. I bought a piece of land that needed some work done and I also owned a bunch of heavy shop machinery (lathe, Bridgeport, welding tables, etc) that I needed to move to the shop on said new property. I grew up in a family owned JD Dealership, then when my dad retired he sold Bobcat for a bit and now is selling Deere again. I've been around machinery and agriculture / construction my entire life so I feel like I have reasonable exposure to give some guidance here.

Back in '20, my dad talked me into buying an early 2000s Bobcat T190. It has a vertical lift system, hand and foot controls, but has enough aux flow to run some small attachments like an auger or the brush mower that I made from an old bushhog. It was a great decision. Parts are all still easily available and the controls are cheap and simple to work on. Hand and foot controls are better for a machine that isn't an all day production machine and that you don't want to dump a ton of money into if you have to replace a joystick. Easy manual adjustments, no computer calibrations, and actual feedback from the pumps. If you are finding that your ankles are sore at the end of the day, try wearing lower top shoes like hiking boots instead of half calf. Also, keeping the rocker and linkage bushings in good shape in the pedals and rods is important. As they wear, it takes more motion to operate the controls and it reduces the control resolution when cutting grade. $30 in bushings and 45 minutes of work will make a HFC machine operate like a dream again. Also, if you're a bigger person, you won't like HFC because of just general ergonomics.

Tracks vs tires... my experience is that tire machines are for improved or semi-improved surfaces and tracks are for going off in the mud and woods. Yes, tracking over roots sucks in a track machine because every damn bogie gives you a bump, however the stability and overall traction is much better. Tires will get you stuck on wet clay though. Track maintenance is expensive but for MY usage, its worth it. I'd have turned over and sank a tire machine several times using it the way I use my CTL.

I spent 9 hours in my T190 yesterday helping a friend clean up some property and tear up a plywood addition on an abandoned house on some property he bought. The machine spent the day tearing, crushing, carrying and loading a revolution of dump trailers. My ankles are fine and I have MS and I'm 40... I am leaving the house here in a minute with the same machine to go move a bunch of backfill at a friend's brewery where they are building a shop themselves and its time to finish the grade.

I've put some time and work and parts into this machine, but I have also put 790 hours on it in 4-1/2 years working on my property, the family farm, and helping out friends like yesterday and today.

In regards to buying new machinery - financing can be weird with buying it as a personal thing and not a business. I bought a '24 Bobcat E48 cab mini-ex back in March (after pricing and looking at Tak, Deere, CAT, Bobcat, Yanmar, and Develon,) and Bobcat was the best match for my personal use and overall cost point for a roughly 5T mini. I know a lot of people hate Bobcat but I hate Kubota equipment (even though I do like their engines, such as the one that is in this T190). A lot of people Hate Bobcat but its a decent mid-level machine at a mid-level cost. Its not junk, but its not super HD commercial CAT.

20240907_110946.jpg


20240825_102522.jpg


Its also amazing the tasks I come up with for the machine.

20231016_161420 (1).jpg
Thanks for that info:beer:
 
Here's a real beaut.

"Nicest in state".. wants $29k for it with ~3400hrs. :lmao:
Can't be bothered to spend 30mins and $5 of masking rape.

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I'm 99% sure the 2018 Cat 226 at work doesn't have DPF but I don't have any pictures handy and if it does it's buried in a fuck you spot.

Telehandler is a 2015 with the 74 HP option and it is no dpf/def.
PXL_20240908_161342901.jpg
:flipoff2:
Deere just released 50-75 HP tractors without a dpf or scr but are using allot of cooled EGR to meet emissions compliance. Cat was probably able to do it sooner. It may have something to do with skid steers / track loaders being a constant speed engine vs tractors and telehandlers being more variable speed engines.
 
Wheels are better for snow plowing, so that's something to consider.
 
Deere just released 50-75 HP tractors without a dpf or scr but are using allot of cooled EGR to meet emissions compliance. Cat was probably able to do it sooner. It may have something to do with skid steers / track loaders being a constant speed engine vs tractors and telehandlers being more variable speed engines.

I can't remember for sure but I'm 99% sure the Gehl, Deere, and Cat skid steers I demoed this year didn't have def/DPF (6000 lb machine). 10/12k telehandlers you can either get the 125 HP with DEF/DPF or the 74 HP non encumbered machine. In mini exs I think it's somewhere around a 5 or an 8 ton ton machine you start getting exhaust emissions equipment (in cat and Deere at least).
 
my buddies svl 70/75? just lunched the timing gears we think, at around 3700 hrs. not good. running along and died. sounds like timing is off now and won't start.
 
I can't remember for sure but I'm 99% sure the Gehl, Deere, and Cat skid steers I demoed this year didn't have def/DPF (6000 lb machine). 10/12k telehandlers you can either get the 125 HP with DEF/DPF or the 74 HP non encumbered machine. In mini exs I think it's somewhere around a 5 or an 8 ton ton machine you start getting exhaust emissions equipment (in cat and Deere at least).
I guarantee the Deere had a DPF and none of them would have had SCR
 
If you are going to be moving a lot of snow with it then go tires. Otherwise I would run tracked if I had a choice. They tend to not get a lot of love but we currently have around 20 CAT skidsteers in our fleet. They get treated like shit and have just kept on going. They have all been RB auction specials. If I need to take a machine home I will try to grab our 299D with the bigger bucket and get shit done. If I was doing land clearing I would go straight for the largest tracked machine I could find with a full cab and AC and also look for high flow aux hydraulics. Tires and tree stumps don't always seem to get along.
 
A friend has the biggest tracked bobcat. It is like a mini bulldozer. He was just digging into a shale/clay hillside in my yard and pushing it wherever he wanted it to go.
a buddy has a pair of them, stuff fell off and they are very impressive machines.
 
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I have a Deere ls180 with low hours I’m about to sell it has hand/foot controls. My Takeuchi's are joystick machines. I put people on them that have never run equipment. But neither are very difficult to run. I’ve seen guys make them all dance.
You have a Deere wut?!?
 
If you are going to be moving a lot of snow with it then go tires. Otherwise I would run tracked if I had a choice. They tend to not get a lot of love but we currently have around 20 CAT skidsteers in our fleet. They get treated like shit and have just kept on going. They have all been RB auction specials. If I need to take a machine home I will try to grab our 299D with the bigger bucket and get shit done. If I was doing land clearing I would go straight for the largest tracked machine I could find with a full cab and AC and also look for high flow aux hydraulics. Tires and tree stumps don't always seem to get along.

Our tracked unit seemed to do fine with snow, we did swap on snow track though. Found some sheet ice in the parking lot that was fun though.
 
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