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Square body link front suspension

dirtybird

Red Skull Member
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
287
Messages
144
Loc
Mayetta, KS
Working on my 85 K5 project. Ls swap is almost done. Was planning on tons with leaf springs but found a parts truck with tons that already has artec truss on the front and a poorly designed hack fuck 4 link. Rod ends and everything are there and new so I figured I just as well link it apposed to torching off the truss and putting on leafs. Truck will see mostly dd/ back road and some trail driving. Question is what would work better for me a 3 link or a short arm 4 link like the ord setup. Running 37s. I would like to keep ride height low as possible. Anyone have experience with the ord 4 link?
 
Depends a whole lot on what you're doing for steering. Or is it some sort of parallel 4 link with a panhard? I've never seen one.
 
Why would you bother with short arms?

And honestly, 37s and low, why even bother with links at all?
I got 42" artic out of 52" and 56" on a swb. No need to spend $3k to make a truck suspension that wont give you something a $1000 can.
 
Parallel 4 link with soft joints and a track bar are awesome on DDs. Depending on what the deal is with that axle and what side the pumpkin is on, I'd seriously consider selling the current axle as-is and grabbing an 05+ super duty HP60 (drivers side drop) and build a parallel 4 link (or custom radius arm) off of the factory radius arm mounts. The most strength available out of junkyard axles, and the least effort reworking stuff
 
Thanks for the replies. Looks like the ord setup uses 32 inch parallel links. I would have to remove the truss to use thier brackets anyway. I already have the 4l80 and 205 setup for pass side drop. I think I will leave it on leafs for now and get the power train dialed in then maybe look into linking it next winter. I know if I go down the link rabbit hole the damn thing will be torn down for the next 6 months.
 
I have a set of Chevy Dana 60 ORD axle brackets and a set of shock towers if you want them for cheap?

I am cleaning out the shed.
For a road driven truck, there's a reason why OEMs do parallel four links with panhard bars, even at stock heights.
 
Grendel said:
I have a set of Chevy Dana 60 ORD axle brackets and a set of shock towers if you want them for cheap?

I am cleaning out the shed.
For a road driven truck, there's a reason why OEMs do parallel four links with panhard bars, even at stock heights.
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Definitely. Pm me price and payment info.
 
dirtybird said:
Definitely. Pm me price and payment info.
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I'll dig them out and send you pics via PM. I have Barnes 4wd weld on shock towers and can probably send a weld on panhard bar mount, too.

This is ORD's pic

www.offroaddesign.com

Front coilover axle brackets only for GM D60, with hardware to mount to axle and coilover spacers

Front Coilover Axle Brackets Only, With Hardware to Mount to Axle ForGM D60, with hardware to mount to axle and coilover spacers
www.offroaddesign.com www.offroaddesign.com

20191121_125857.jpg
 

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That what I was looking into. I think I can use the link bars and heims from the 4link on the parts truck. Do you think 14 inch coilovers will be way too long for 4 or inches of lift? Parts truck has some sweet 14 inch FOA s on it ATM. I hope I can use them for mockup and shakedown runs then get some fox or whatever to pit on permanently.
 
dirtybird said:
That what I was looking into. I think I can use the link bars and heims from the 4link on the parts truck. Do you think 14 inch coilovers will be way too long for 4 or inches of lift? Parts truck has some sweet 14 inch FOA s on it ATM. I hope I can use them for mockup and shakedown runs then get some fox or whatever to pit on permanently.
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It depends, really. You could use shorter springs and plan your bumps.

I'll start a PM in a bit.
 
Parallel 4 links with track bars and heims don't mix IMO. They're actually overconstrained because there are 5 locating links, so they have inherent bind as the suspension cycles which is why soft joints (rubber bushings or spherical joints with soft/poly races) are critical. If you're trying to use the heims you have, a 3 link (parallel 4 link minus 1 upper) is probably the way to do it.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
Parallel 4 links with track bars and heims don't mix IMO. They're actually overconstrained because there are 5 locating links, so they have inherent bind as the suspension cycles which is why soft joints (rubber bushings or spherical joints with soft/poly races) are critical. If you're trying to use the heims you have, a 3 link (parallel 4 link minus 1 upper) is probably the way to do it.
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Never had that problem with 4 parallel links and a panhard. Modern Heim joints have a lot of misalignment in them, especially with the right spacers.
 
Grendel said:
Never had that problem with 4 parallel links and a panhard. Modern Heim joints have a lot of misalignment in them, especially with the right spacers.
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I think he's talking about having zero deflection with heims in a setup that could bind to some extent when cycled in off road type uses. Doing all the 3d jeep modeling stuff he probably knows exactly when and where it happens too.
 
AK_F250 said:
I think he's talking about having zero deflection with heims in a setup that could bind to some extent when cycled in off road type uses. Doing all the 3d jeep modeling stuff he probably knows exactly when and where it happens too.
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Yeah, we're talking about 4" of lift here... and smallish tires on a full body'd rig. that sees a lot of street driving.
So, not in scope :)
 
Grendel said:
Yeah, we're talking about 4" of lift here... and smallish tires on a full body'd rig. that sees a lot of street driving.
So, not in scope :)
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It's still going to bind. Just because it's street driven doesn't give you an excuse to do it wrong.
 
A parallel 4 link with track bar binds even through level travel with zero articulation. If you ever try to hook up the 4th link anywhere but ride height you'll notice the bolt hole of the 4th link is going to be off by a decent bit. At full droop on most rigs I've encountered, it's over 1/4" at droop if not 3/8". If the joints don't allow the C-C length of the links to stretch/shrink to compensate, you're asking the mounts to. Or the frame, or the axle tube press fit in the housings. Has it been done, sure. But I'd much rather have those inherent stresses soaked up by the soft joint material instead of metal deflection
 
dirtybird said:
I can always pull one upper link out if I'm doing any serious crawling. I can also save the heims for a rear 4 link and put johnny joints in the front.
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I know it'll cost you more up front, but I would absolutely go this route personally. Especially if you're already planning to link the rear at some point, it's just an expense now versus then. I'm a huge fan of Johnny Joints, as well as Metalcloak Duroflex joints. My DD has a parallel 4 link with Johnny Joints and jeep control arm bushings, that I've put north of 70k miles on with zero maintenance so far. I've cooked one frame side UCA JJ by not protecting it from the exhaust, but it's hardly made any impact on driveability because of the redundancy provided by 4 links. I'll probably give that one a rebuild (and the rest an inspection) in the next year or two just to avoid dragging it out too far haha.

I can also appreciate if you've got your mind set on a plan at this point, just figured it was worth sharing my opinion/experiences :beer:
 
I'm running 52/56 leafs. Mine is more of a trail rig and I'm at about 5-6" of lift with stock springs. I only have about 5" of up travel on the drivers side because of the steering. It might be 2 more inches before I hit without a drag link which is why I'm going to go full hydro eventually. My wheel base is stretched about 2" so if you run the axle in the stock spot, it'll probably need cutting and still rub the cab or steering box when turned. The frame is the limiting factor on a square body up front. To keep the links level, you'll have a pretty tall frame side link mount. At 4" and 37s, it seems like a lot of work for little gain with the stock frame and steering placement. If anything, links make more sense in the rear. You'll have a ton more room and you can run triangulated links. Let the rear do the work
 
Funny, never had issues with many of the vehicles installed with em, here on IBB, PBB, et al and the manufacturers who sell and warranty them.

Full droop on a long travel suspension, sure... but on this one? No issues. It will never see the 1/4" of bind you describe.
 
I'm with Grendel on the truck not seeing extreme flex that would bind. I did just check the ord kit and it does come with the flex joints for one end. I'm starting to like the idea of the flex joints to take a little harshness away on rough roads. I drive on 8 to 10 miles of gravel road each way every day going to the shop. My intentions with this build is to have a comfortable rig that I can drive every day and still take it on a trail when I want and have it perform fairly well. Probly never get to jv or anything but I'd like to be able to drive it to Colorado and be able to do some decent wheeling and drive it home.
 
dirtybird said:
I'm with Grendel on the truck not seeing extreme flex that would bind. I did just check the ord kit and it does come with the flex joints for one end. I'm starting to like the idea of the flex joints to take a little harshness away on rough roads. I drive on 8 to 10 miles of gravel road each way every day going to the shop. My intentions with this build is to have a comfortable rig that I can drive every day and still take it on a trail when I want and have it perform fairly well. Probly never get to jv or anything but I'd like to be able to drive it to Colorado and be able to do some decent wheeling and drive it home.
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Their point is valid, any four link with a panhard bar will have bind. The connection to the chassis and axle doesn't matter, rubber bushings, cartridge joints, or heim joints, all bind. My stock height Dodge Ram 2500 with stock arms has bind and I think the engineers built it into the design.

My point is that it's not enough to matter, in a cheap, short travel build.

Add in heim joints and on a long travel, long arm suspension and they run out of "misalignment" - the other link ends may have more, depends on the joint.

On this one? I'd rock it, but to your point, it will be louder and harsher.
 
All it takes is four chunks of tube and four bushings to make it "right". Why not make it "right"? Heck, it's cheaper to do it right than to buy the four bungs and heims it takes to do it wrong.
 
What are you trying to gain here? Are you looking to put your antidive, caster etc etc where YOU want them? If so then links are for you Brother.

If none of the math appeals to you then leafs will do. Just spend money on great adjustable shocks.

In the end good luck. ORD has a great kit for us square body folks. You will find it very very difficult to get a 4 link under the front of a fool sized Chevy. I built my 3 link with a panhard bar. My upper is on the outside of the frame. There is just too much junk in the way and the narrow frame doesn't help.

My rig drives wonderful on the street sans the teeter totter because I'm poor and have welded diffs. But the road manners are stellar on 40s compared to leafs.

While I like my 3 link I wouldn't have done it if my rig wasn't a trail only rig that I drive on the street to flex. (Not the flex that we 1st think of)

Street trucks for me get leafs and great adjustable shocks. It gets the job done and unless your chasing the AZ Undertakers leafs should get you where you wanna go wheeling
 
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