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Spal brushless fan?

gt1guy

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I just got a new C&R radiator (last week) that has 2 of the new Spal brushless fans on it. Mine run off PWM from the LS computer.


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I'll report back when they actually spin under their own power. Hopefully, being sealed they live a long and happy life....................and move a ton of air.
 

gt1guy

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How are you planning to wire it, only using PNW signal from LS or using the 2 Spal harnesses and Spal temp sensor?

PWM signal from the LS E38 ECU is the plan. I have a Gen4 LS3. I've also read where folks have had issues getting the PWM signals correct to play nice.
 

Chief Rocka

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Slight hiccup but I got it installed with a 05 E40 ecm set to PWM electric and 128hz. At 1st it was running really slow at commanded 100% and allowed the engine to get hot. Found a hptuner post that said non-oem fans use inverse or reverse logic. 8% is full speed. Re-wrote tune and this thing blows :cool:!



SPAL brushless PWM fan desired.PNG
 

gt1guy

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Awesome info right there. Thanks for posting the follow up. I couldn't remember where I read that there were issues,
 

Satan's_Minion

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FYI for long term you should run the fans much more variable than what you have set. When you have that much control absolutely no reason to have the fans at full speed until things are REAL hot, like 230 range. Your alternator will thank you.


Slight hiccup but I got it installed with a 05 E40 ecm set to PWM electric and 128hz. At 1st it was running really slow at commanded 100% and allowed the engine to get hot. Found a hptuner post that said non-oem fans use inverse or reverse logic. 8% is full speed. Re-wrote tune and this thing blows :cool:!



 

Chief Rocka

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With this inverse logic aftermarket fan, 95-15 is the range. With 15 being the minimum and =25% actual fan speed. I spoke to Spal and they said 100-X=fan speed, where X is setting in tune (ie 100-5= 95% fan, 100-85=15min or 25% fan).

What do you suggest? In stock application when it's getting hammered, speed is probably 100+MPH. In the woods when it's getting hammered, speed is more like 10 mph... Sometimes much slower like when climbing. At what temp should a 05 alum LS2 operate, for our applications?

Thanks for the input.
 

Satan's_Minion

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Just off the cuff with a dual 12 setup I would think you will need the fans in the 25-30% speed range to keep temp at idle. LS engines are what 200-205 min operating temp? So think 70# around that temp and have the speed increase to like 20# around the temp you feel comfortable running in the 220-230 range then above that go full speed. Fans should likely never go full speed.

Remember this is different than on/off fan control you will still have cooling there vs not until the fan reaches the on point. You want the thermostat to stay open and control your temp with the fans. You may need to tweak it in on a medium hot day to get it based where you want.
 

Chief Rocka

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My fan stopped working yesterday on a snow run. It had a PWM trigger signal from a 2005 E40 LS2 ECM. Loaded a different tune with discrete fan settings, was able to manually trigger fan wire with HP Tuners, and still nothing from the fan itself. Manual trigger sets a gnd when fan set to discrete.

While troubleshooting noticed the fan side white trigger wire has 12v+. Grounding white wire does not activate fan. Does that sound correct or indicate fan is fried?

Fan info: PN 30107125, VA91-ABL326P_N-65A, purchased in July 2020

Thanks for any help,
CR
 

Satan's_Minion

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There is a pull up resistor on the white wire to the battery positive input, you should have system voltage there when your control system is off. If you simply ground the white wire the fan will be "on" but not running. If you want to run manually you need to ground the white and power the analog (yellow). I have a rig setup with the exact fan you are using that way as the ECU is only on/off. If you have PWM available it is the way to go. Make sure your shroud is not tweaking things and causing the blade to rub the shroud.
 

Chief Rocka

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There is a pull up resistor on the white wire to the battery positive input, you should have system voltage there when your control system is off. If you simply ground the white wire the fan will be "on" but not running. If you want to run manually you need to ground the white and power the analog (yellow). I have a rig setup with the exact fan you are using that way as the ECU is only on/off. If you have PWM available it is the way to go. Make sure your shroud is not tweaking things and causing the blade to rub the shroud.

The fan spins freely, I had it go into safe mode last year when I went thru some deep water. Thought it was dead until I cycled the ignition.

Yesterday, when it stopped working, the system was being controlled by PWM. The ECM fan wire was not grounding, but I only checked it while it was not up to full temp and therefore commanding ground. I didn't know grounding white and powering yellow would trick it to turn on, but I will test that. Wish I would have posted up yesterday, I'd still be on the trails!

What I don't understand is what changed to cause it to stop working in the 1st place. The yellow wire was never connected to anything. Any idea what signal type and/or measurement I should be looking to get from the ECM while in PWM mode?
 

Satan's_Minion

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Yes you may have to cycle the signal off/on if the fan is not running when you expect it too. It should protect itself from pretty much any external influence, but that means it might not be running. What was the scenario when it was stopped recently?

You can check with a meter to see what rough percentage pwm you are getting, in a pinch with a simple meter use DC and check system voltage vs what you see on the white. You need to tap in while it stays connected, if you measure from ECU or fan side only you will not see the signal. %pwm * system voltage = what you should read DC. If the waveform is all shit for whatever reason the fan might still not run but you need a scope to check that.

You never want the white grounded permanently as it will drain the battery on the vehicle still when you key off. If you want simple on/off trigger the ground from ECU or temp switch and run switched ignition to the yellow wire. This should let the fan go to sleep once its not needed.


The fan spins freely, I had it go into safe mode last year when I went thru some deep water. Thought it was dead until I cycled the ignition.

Yesterday, when it stopped working, the system was being controlled by PWM. The ECM fan wire was not grounding, but I only checked it while it was not up to full temp and therefore commanding ground. I didn't know grounding white and powering yellow would trick it to turn on, but I will test that. Wish I would have posted up yesterday, I'd still be on the trails!

What I don't understand is what changed to cause it to stop working in the 1st place. The yellow wire was never connected to anything. Any idea what signal type and/or measurement I should be looking to get from the ECM while in PWM mode?
 

Chief Rocka

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What was the scenario when it was stopped recently?

Just finished a climb in the snow so I was hammering on it. Pulled up to reseat a bead on another rig and upon exit may have kicked the ECM fan wire loose. Heard a click but didn't think anything of it, now realize that may have been the CEL. A few minutes later noticed coolant running off the fender (overflow bottle on that side) and I shut it down, not ecm (went into protection mode and popped code P1258). We were close to camp so it took a couple run/cool down cycles to get it back. Spent the rest of the day troubleshooting fan.
 

Chief Rocka

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Confirmed wiring with Brent @ Spal earlier today. GND to white and 12v to the yellow activated the fan. At least now I know how to manually over-ride to salvage a trip. Now I just need to figure out why the LS ECM (E40) stopped sending a PWM signal to the fan.
 

toximus

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What size fuse are you guys running? I've got a 30107125.
 

Chief Rocka

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100A manual reset circuit breaker off amzn
 

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  • Spal brushless fan 30107125 VA91-ABL326P_N-65A.pdf
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HYDRODYNAMIC

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Sorry, late for the party, I was going to say the brushless fans have an insane service life. 30K-40K hours. Even then I think that's only a 5% failure at that stage in life.
Most likely a external issue is causing the issue. The self protection makes it difficult to damage the fan.
 

toximus

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100A manual reset circuit breaker off amzn

Where do you see 100a? It looks like 10ga wiring to the fan so I can't imagine it'd be 100a...

Also, any issues grounding to chassis vs back to battery?
 

Chief Rocka

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Where do you see 100a? It looks like 10ga wiring to the fan so I can't imagine it'd be 100a...

Also, any issues grounding to chassis vs back to battery?
I don't see that, just assumed in-rush current is higher than operating. I had 60A fuse blow/melt and engine got hot.

Mine has ground direct to battery.
 

Treefrog

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Use a few of the fans for things at work. Set up with 100A quick blow and a 50 A slow blow, ground is direct to negative terminal. Another install is unfused to/from an ac-dc convertor that is circuit breakered on the AC side. Only issues we've had were self inflicted. They self-derate if they get too hot. Keep fresh air supplied and they work great. At full power they move a lot of air.
 

Grendel

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Yes, I use them in everything I can these days. Since about 2014, when Tony at Entropy Radiator came out with his own PWM controller for them.

These days, I use the OEM Spal fans, found in (14") 2015 Corvettes or (16") 2017 Camaros... or go shopping if I need a smaller/bigger size. Like the Z06 oil cooler fans are small Spal PWM.

I find the AC Delco ones for like 260, with a shroud I can cut the shit out of.

Sorry, 263:



Pretty sure Ford uses them, too. Again, different sizes, still Spal and way cheaper but factory wiring, factory programming.
 
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toximus

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I don't see that, just assumed in-rush current is higher than operating. I had 60A fuse blow/melt and engine got hot.

Mine has ground direct to battery.

I decided to go the breaker route as well. I like that it'd be quickly resettable. Is yours similar draw as mine? I want to make sure my breaker is sized correctly.

Have you added any kind of monitoring? Or just watch the engine temp?
 

Chief Rocka

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After 60A blew, it got wired directly to battery.... exactly the reason I went resettable.

Not sure on the draw. Mine is the non-OEM 30107125. You could test trigger the fan with GND to white and 12v to yellow. Don't know if my multimeter could handle wired in series... think it's 10A max.

No active monitoring. I keep an eye on temps after beating on it. It's got a speed hut gauge with an idiot light but no buzzer. DTC P1258 should protect engine.
 

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For breaker or fuse sizing the fan is a soft start so it does not pull an inrush like the brushed versions of the past. The start up amperage is very close to the running amperage. IIRC the 17" 500W fans pull 34.5A at 15V. That being said if you burned up a 60A fuse with a 300W fan it was probably due to a bad/corroded connection that caused the high resistance.
With the brushless fan and the smart driver you are not protecting the fan you are protecting the wires going to the fan. Size so if the wires short out they do not melt down the vehicle and start a fire.
 

Chief Rocka

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For breaker or fuse sizing the fan is a soft start so it does not pull an inrush like the brushed versions of the past. The start up amperage is very close to the running amperage. IIRC the 17" 500W fans pull 34.5A at 15V. That being said if you burned up a 60A fuse with a 300W fan it was probably due to a bad/corroded connection that caused the high resistance.
With the brushless fan and the smart driver you are not protecting the fan you are protecting the wires going to the fan. Size so if the wires short out they do not melt down the vehicle and start a fire.
Thanks for the info. 40A breaker ordered.
 

toximus

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The 300W should be good with 40A
The 500W 14” fan can pull just over 40A so anyone running the higher output models should bump up the breaker size.
Is there a listing of the wattage for these fans somewhere? I've searched and searched and can't find mine.
 
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