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Sovereign citizen traveling by private automobile threatens cops with gunfight

KarlVP said:
Are you one of the same people that bitches about license/immigration stops along the border and with the same breath bitches about illegal immigration?

How hard is it to just fucking stop and show your ID?
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I get your point to an extent but why should I have to be the one proving who I am simply because I chose to drive a street? Being in a country as an illegal immigrant is a crime or it used to be. If they want to catch illegals they know where and how to do so but they’d rather harass citizens about fruits and immigration status at the same time. These same immigration stops let illegal immigrants go….because a higher up somewhere wants those votes. Then they just so happen to find you, a legal citizen, with an out of date inspection sticker and an avocado and give you the whole riot act, search and all. Not exactly the point of an immigration check point right?

Do I want to be a sovereign citizen? No but some of their points makes sense to me in this time of ever increasing surveillance and authority. I feel they make a really bad case for themselves because the moment you ask them what’s going on they start screaming about “the Nazis asked for papers too!” Rather than calmly explaining whatever it is they are thinking.

How about the right to refuse a search of a vehicle? Youre allowed to say no. Is that crazy? I don’t think so. Cops never accept that for an answer though.

I once refused a search in 2012ish. Ive always drove older trucks because I just don’t think an expensive rig is worth it for me especially to plow. What can I say I found Dave Ramsey early lol. I was driving my old IDI 6.9 extended cab with stock inverted leaf springs and the old c6 and some old super traction II 7.5r16s. Reason for stop was doing 78… In a truck with a 6.9/c6 combo lol, lmao even. 62 was screaming for it. The radiator cap would blow off like clock work after 5 minutes of that speed. The tires hated any highway driving at all. I was doing 55 on the red dot and just enjoying myself chugging home from work. I know I looked like a weirdo because I was going so slow after dark. The officer tells me that an old truck with a rust riddled bed flapping in the wind “just looks suspicious” so he wants to search. Says that lots of heroin was traveling i90 and how does he know I’m not trafficking? That was the justification he needed to search and dump all my stuff on the side of i90 while doing so. He went as far as opening my plastic molded tool cases and taking the tools out. He goes and sits in the car for 20 minutes doing who knows what but I could see him on the radio and computer for a very long time. With a sad smirk on his face he tells me Im free to go and that I was lucky he didn’t find anything (there was nothing to find!) and to make sure all my stuff was picked up. He sped off and left me to pick all my tools up off the shoulder in the dark at risk of being rear ended. Is that fair treatment for knowing I have the right to say no and doing so? I was polite and friendly the whole time I just said no thanks to an unnecessary search.

Sorry for the rant, I’m sure a lot of people feel differently about it but there has to be a better way to go about this. Civilization has a cost but at what point is enough just enough. You have the rights why not know them and use them?
 
KarlVP said:
Please expand on all these $5 words.

I'm genuinely interested.

Type slowly, like you are teaching a 10 year old.
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"free immigration" is just forced integration
It is the government giving everyone a path to your doorstep against your wishes.
Imagine a world where every property were private rather than public, there is no 'free travel' of undesirables far and wide.

Dialing that back a tick, if every property along the border were private (and private property owners actually owned their properties in this country) then the only people who could cross the border would be those invited into or allowed to transit those properties.

Immigration could become more a question of individual liability than what some DEI czar decrees.
Say you want to bring over your brother from armenia, you naturally would need to assume all responsibility for his actions, for housing/feeding him and therefore for holding him accountable to his missteps and trespasses. Just like it used to be for children, before children became public property.
He fucks up your neighbor's shit, you're responsible for bringing him here so you're the obvious one to blame.
 
[486] said:
"free immigration" is just forced integration
It is the government giving everyone a path to your doorstep against your wishes.
Imagine a world where every property were private rather than public, there is no 'free travel' of undesirables far and wide.

Dialing that back a tick, if every property along the border were private (and private property owners actually owned their properties in this country) then the only people who could cross the border would be those invited into or allowed to transit those properties.

Immigration could become more a question of individual liability than what some DEI czar decrees.
Say you want to bring over your brother from armenia, you naturally would need to assume all responsibility for his actions, for housing/feeding him and therefore for holding him accountable to his missteps and trespasses. Just like it used to be for children, before children became public property.
He fucks up your neighbor's shit, you're responsible for bringing him here so you're the obvious one to blame.
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Didn’t we do the whole sponsorship thing for years and years in the past?
 
[486] said:
Gee whiz. Isn't the past just so racist and horrible?
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My great grandfathers brother got sent back to Italy from NYC because his sponsor didn’t want to deal with his alcoholism and lack of holding a job. Racist or not it worked. Much better than whatever we have today where an immigrant can assault people on a subway in NYC and be let back out the same day.
 
BigBurt said:
I get your point to an extent but why should I have to be the one proving who I am simply because I chose to drive a street? Being in a country as an illegal immigrant is a crime or it used to be. If they want to catch illegals they know where and how to do so but they’d rather harass citizens about fruits and immigration status at the same time. These same immigration stops let illegal immigrants go….because a higher up somewhere wants those votes. Then they just so happen to find you, a legal citizen, with an out of date inspection sticker and an avocado and give you the whole riot act, search and all. Not exactly the point of an immigration check point right?

Do I want to be a sovereign citizen? No but some of their points makes sense to me in this time of ever increasing surveillance and authority. I feel they make a really bad case for themselves because the moment you ask them what’s going on they start screaming about “the Nazis asked for papers too!” Rather than calmly explaining whatever it is they are thinking.

How about the right to refuse a search of a vehicle? Youre allowed to say no. Is that crazy? I don’t think so. Cops never accept that for an answer though.

I once refused a search in 2012ish. Ive always drove older trucks because I just don’t think an expensive rig is worth it for me especially to plow. What can I say I found Dave Ramsey early lol. I was driving my old IDI 6.9 extended cab with stock inverted leaf springs and the old c6 and some old super traction II 7.5r16s. Reason for stop was doing 78… In a truck with a 6.9/c6 combo lol, lmao even. 62 was screaming for it. The radiator cap would blow off like clock work after 5 minutes of that speed. The tires hated any highway driving at all. I was doing 55 on the red dot and just enjoying myself chugging home from work. I know I looked like a weirdo because I was going so slow after dark. The officer tells me that an old truck with a rust riddled bed flapping in the wind “just looks suspicious” so he wants to search. Says that lots of heroin was traveling i90 and how does he know I’m not trafficking? That was the justification he needed to search and dump all my stuff on the side of i90 while doing so. He went as far as opening my plastic molded tool cases and taking the tools out. He goes and sits in the car for 20 minutes doing who knows what but I could see him on the radio and computer for a very long time. With a sad smirk on his face he tells me Im free to go and that I was lucky he didn’t find anything (there was nothing to find!) and to make sure all my stuff was picked up. He sped off and left me to pick all my tools up off the shoulder in the dark at risk of being rear ended. Is that fair treatment for knowing I have the right to say no and doing so? I was polite and friendly the whole time I just said no thanks to an unnecessary search.

Sorry for the rant, I’m sure a lot of people feel differently about it but there has to be a better way to go about this. Civilization has a cost but at what point is enough just enough. You have the rights why not know them and use them?
Click to expand...
Without a warrant, that was an illegal search. You could have asked for his supervisor and that would have put a stop to it, maybe. IF you say no, they are required to get a warrant, and you saying no is not enough reason for a warrant.

One time I got stopped at a DUI check point. It was New Years eve about 25 years ago. My asshole boss scheduled me out of town over Christmas and New Years, because he was mad his boss hired me.
I did a round trip to GIlroy, Ca. from Mesa, Az. Google says it is about 11 hours, but in a Semi, it is closer to 15. I was pulling a 45 foot tank of IsoCyanate for foam. I left out on I believe a Wednesday 9PM, drove all night, and unloaded my tank, and immediately drove home. I may have been over hours. As I got off the freeway,headed to my house, there was a DUI Check point. It was midnight, New Years Eve. I pulled up to the check point, and my friendly neighborhood trooper shined a light in my eyes, and asked, "How long have you been on the road?".
I looked back at him, and said, "Too Long.
He asked how far I was from home. I said, "five miles."
He said '' take it home and park it, and have a good night"
I went home, got the keys to my pick up, because my wife kept them for some reason, drove to the yard, and parked the truck. I thought that was a perfectly reasonable encounter.

Another time, same company, a few weeks later, I was pulled over by a CHP DOT inspector. I was thinking I was totally screwed. My log book was absolutely out fo date, and I was out of hours.
He aske dme about my day. and I said it was better before you pulled me over. He wanted to check that my brake lights and the rusted out junk trailer I was pulling were working. They were, and he let me go. Easily the weirdest DOT encounter I have ever heard about. He did not even look at my license or log book. Crazy stuff.
 
Say what you will about the rest, but I was impressed with that sheriff deputy's ability to not escalate the situation in that video to some retard levels.

I think the dude got lucky he wasn't dealing with hot head LEOs more than anything. Things like that make me want to actually work in law enforcement. I'm getting paid to be there, might as well have patience with whoever I'm dealing with.

...then I see some of the gross methed out zombie situations LEOs have to deal with and I realize I'm fine not doing that.
 
Az Scooter said:
Without a warrant, that was an illegal search. You could have asked for his supervisor and that would have put a stop to it, maybe. IF you say no, they are required to get a warrant, and you saying no is not enough reason for a warrant.
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Been there.

Cop: Can I search your vehicle ?

Me: NO.

Cop: Why? You hiding something?

Me: No, but I am not giving you permission. I don't have to.

Cop: Well we don't want anyone getting hurt. Go stand over there.




They search anyway. And what are you prepared to do?

You can file a report... see where that gets you.

They violate a right, and there is no consequence.
 
grumpy356 said:
Been there.

Cop: Can I search your vehicle ?

Me: NO.

Cop: Why? You hiding something?

Me: No, but I am not giving you permission. I don't have to.

Cop: Well we don't want anyone getting hurt. Go stand over there.




They search anyway. And what are you prepared to do?

You can file a report... see where that gets you.

They violate a right, and there is no consequence.
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Record everything.


There are tons of recent cases where that same situation ended with a lawsuit and/or giant settlement. Way more common now that everyone has a camera in their pocket at all times.
 
Bonanza said:
Sovereign citizens fascinate me. It's a mental illness to be sure, but so high functioning. They go to the store, buy groceries, buy cars, buy gas, tie their shoes, but are bat-shit crazy. It has to be a long road to get that stage, and I'm always left wondering how this happens. In my younger days on the job when a lot of my stuff was traffic related offenses, these guys would come in from time to time, and they all follow the same script. Always something about "traveling" and how the laws don't apply to them. They also always used to comment about the courtroom flags not being legitimate because they had fringes on them or something so the court didn't have jurisdiction.

It's the same kind of thing like speaking in tongue, or sacrificing lambs or similar. It's so, so delusional, yet they function perfectly fine.
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I dont know. If you sit and think about it, why should the government have such massive control over us?


The world was not in utter chaos before drivers licenses, leash laws, drug prohibition, etc. Most of this shit is around 100 years old. We have slid down a slippery slope very quickly. I just had to register my fucking kayaks. Plastic things i paddle around in.
 
DMG said:
I dont know. If you sit and think about it, why should the government have such massive control over us?


The world was not in utter chaos before drivers licenses, leash laws, drug prohibition, etc. Most of this shit is around 100 years old. We have slid down a slippery slope very quickly. I just had to register my fucking kayaks. Plastic things i paddle around in.
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Why? In WA if it's small enough and under 5hp you don't have to register shit.

Something you can drag/manhandle to a waterway and are not going to use a public boat launch, you shouldn't have to register.
 
KarlVP said:
Why? In WA if it's small enough and under 5hp you don't have to register shit.
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Because different states have different rules, mind blowing, I know. :shaking:

We don't have to register anything without a motor in MA but that didn't prevent me from understanding what he was talking about.
 
KarlVP said:
Why? In WA if it's small enough and under 5hp you don't have to register shit.

Something you can drag/manhandle to a waterway and are not going to use a public boat launch, you shouldn't have to register.
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Because the government likes money and control. By forcing us to register everything, they get more money and control. And we allow it. Thats how it came to be that i am paying to register my sons tiny kayak, among other things.
 
DMG said:
Because the government likes money and control. By forcing us to register everything, they get more money and control. And we allow it. Thats how it came to be that i am paying to register my sons tiny kayak, among other things.
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But registering it will help the state retrieve it for you if it's stolen.

:laughing:
 
Az Scooter said:
Without a warrant, that was an illegal search. You could have asked for his supervisor and that would have put a stop to it, maybe. IF you say no, they are required to get a warrant, and you saying no is not enough reason for a warrant.
Click to expand...

Here they just call for a K9 unit and make you wait. Officer walks the dog around your truck, steps on its foot out of sight "YIP!"..... "uh yea sergeant, we got a hit on the passenger side"

Now they're dragging all your shit out on the side of the road. Probable cause.
 
87manche said:
But registering it will help the state retrieve it for you if it's stolen.

:laughing:
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45acp said:
Here they just call for a K9 unit and make you wait. Officer walks the dog around your truck, steps on its foot out of sight "YIP!"..... "uh yea sergeant, we got a hit on the passenger side"

Now they're dragging all your shit out on the side of the road. Probable cause.
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There was a Supreme Court case requiring them to not extend the length of a traffic stop for that sort of fuckery. If they find anything it will be tossed out in court so they have been doing it less.
 
DMG said:
There was a Supreme Court case requiring them to not extend the length of a traffic stop for that sort of fuckery. If they find anything it will be tossed out in court so they have been doing it less.
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but they still do it in that part of the country.
 
My avatar could use that clown's feather fur shit. Which is a vehicle code violation in many States btw.
Pull him out, take him, knee to the neck. Done. A full minute and 40 seconds intro. Huh Bye :mr-t:
 
87manche said:
Not until qualified immunity gets gutted.

Why do they care if they cost the local taxpayers a few hundred thousand dollars.
They'll resign before they get fired and then go get a job at another department.
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The town will care which is a hell of an improvement over what we currently have where the town profits off of BS fines/fees
 
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arse_sidewards said:
The town will care which is a hell of an improvement over what we currently have where the town profits off of BS fines/fees
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But will they?
Plenty of towns with officers still on the force that have cost them money in lawsuits.
It's always other people's money.
 
87manche said:
But will they?
Plenty of towns with officers still on the force that have cost them money in lawsuits.
It's always other people's money.
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I have been friends with some cops and dealt with some bad cops. The department doesn’t want a pattern of trouble. We had a cop overstep badly involving parking enforcement at my old shop. I went to the chief. He told me that I could file a complaint and it would go in the guys file and cause him problems with future promotions or he would tell the cop to never contact me again for any reason. I chose the latter.
 
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