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School me on: Buying a multi-family home/building

ProjectTwin

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May 22, 2020
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What special considerations should I be looking at/considering?

Buy under an LLC? Anything special regarding insurance?
 
Definitely get an LLC. I think your commercial insurance may require it. Also be prepared to have up 60 or 70% down payment as a new LLC and an investment property.

Know the meth cleanup rules in whatever state the building is in. IE, one unit busted is the whole building condemned until cleanup or just the unit. Does the state maintain a database of that issue.

Does it have current tenants, what are the eviction rules in the state? Do the leases convey or new leases required.

What's the water/sewer electric situation? Single bill to you and included in rent or you re-bill or everybody has their own meter?

ETA: Existing management group/assesment fees for common areas?
 
Definitely get an LLC. I think your commercial insurance may require it. Also be prepared to have up 60 or 70% down payment as a new LLC and an investment property.

Know the meth cleanup rules in whatever state the building is in. IE, one unit busted is the whole building condemned until cleanup or just the unit. Does the state maintain a database of that issue.

Does it have current tenants, what are the eviction rules in the state? Do the leases convey or new leases required.

What's the water/sewer electric situation? Single bill to you and included in rent or you re-bill or everybody has their own meter?

ETA: Existing management group/assesment fees for common areas?

It’s a 2 story building. Currently has tenants on 2nd floor (stair access front and rear) but the downstairs it’s currently gutted and would need to be remodeled. I’m fine with doing that and living on the ground floor.

Electrical was updated in 2013. Two separate electric meters, water, and HVAC units.
 
You can get a conventional loan with 30% down. You better check on double taxes using a LLC (once via LLC, once taking it out). Insurance can be a pain depending on your track record.
 
You can get a conventional loan with 30% down. You better check on double taxes using a LLC (once via LLC, once taking it out). Insurance can be a pain depending on your track record.

I could likely buy it without a loan, but it’s the legalities of a multi-unit property that I’m :homer: about.
 
OP, you new the the rental business?

or first multi unit?

Life change coming up.

Looking to be smart and have income on the new place as soon as I get it.

Have rented a place before, but was out of state and had a property manager handle it. With a tenant directly above me, I could handle maintenance.
 
I could likely buy it without a loan, but it’s the legalities of a multi-unit property that I’m :homer: about.

If buying it outright that would mitigate most of the downside of rates right now. Duplex’s are always popular because you can buy and manage yourself being on site all the time, also mitigates problems because you can address it before it becomes an issue.

If you buy it outright biggest unknown would be tax, and conditions of sewer and utilities, I bought one 2 years ago that got reassessed and went up 300%. Which basically made numbers not work out and I ended up selling it.

1% rule is a good rule of thumb for values, 1 months rent should equal 1% of the value of the property. You are looking at a roughly 10 year return on investment.

Insurance can be expensive but being a duplex and only one property you should be able to get a custom policy. Make the tenants have rental insurance so if anything goes wrong on your end they are covered.

If you can find a good tenant it’s easy money, if you have shit tenants it can be a nightmare.
 
Just bear in mind the new reporting crap with LLC’s. Prepare to spend time or $500+ year on this stupid new IRS crap
 
I just sold my multi family owning it for 25 years, and another 5 years with plain-ol-rentals before that

I treated them like I did any other tenant. But I treated them as I would like to be treated (like gold)
I didn't LLC, and never had a problem (not even a small claims court)

I didn't do property managers, the neighbor did and there was always a turnover and conflicts over there. I tried to put good compatible families nest to each other
you are not supposed to say ;profiling' but that is what is up

When they work, they work great, but when it backfires, it can go really bad
this last 2020 go round with (my) government I realized just how in control I was, and sold it to the renter
 
you will have shit tenants, be prepared for it

Depends on the area and what you’re trying to do. If you’re trying to be a slumlord with section 8, it’s a pain in the ass. if you’re in a nice area where it’s going to be professionals/families it’s not nearly as bad but your ROI will be lower. You do have to be aware that your tenants are fucking retards and will find anyway to fuck shit up and break it all while denying responsibility. Perfect example the other week I get a call that the garbage disposal isn’t working in the sinks all backed up. They just tripped either the breaker or the overload on the disposal itself. I get there and they have a fork tine wedged into the disposal, pull it out and “no idea how that got there”.

Any good responsible tenant is one to three years removed from buying a house so you’re treading a final line depending on the area.
 
Not a multi tenant, but we bought in personal name, then transferred to LLC . That is not a taxable event, WA state. We have had good luck, but it’s a single family home and we have been super picky. It’s the wife’s pet project, but a couple of things I’ve put a stop to, she acts like we are living there and does all these extra things, that renters don’t give a crap about. It’s pretty nice watching the value and equity go up and we don’t put any money into it.
 
only if he allows it
I was a picky muther fucker, and I would let it sit for a month if I had to
We mostly have decent tenants, but the 5 percent that are shitty, are shitty to the max!

We are also in Colorado where it is impossible to deny tenants, impossible to deny them pets, cant charge a pet deposit anymore, cant charge more rent per month because of pets, etc. Colorado is very anti-landlord. Our California properties are less of a pain...
 
Skip the LLC and just carry good homeowners insurance with a landlord endorsement and also be selective about tenants.

If you’re going to be an active participant in the leasing/ property management, then there’s an avenue to sue you personally in addition to the llc anyways.

And if you’re planning on living in one of the units, then there’s no way I’d be comfortable handing over management to a third party manager.
 
Talk to a tax pro before you buy or set up your LLC.

Like has been said and resaid, tenant filtering is the key to a happy life. Be careful getting people that make too much money also. The worst tenants I had was a surgeon and nurse anesthesiologist husband wife pair. They had fuck you money and treated everything as disposable including my property. Things like hanging pictures with framing nails, and plants with lag bolts, moving in and out with a demolition crew, etc. I booted them at the end of the first lease. It was hard to be pissed. They treated my shit just like it was their own. I was just done with it. The flip side is the opposite. Had a couple move in that was borderline able to afford it. Then the husband died in a car accident and the woman was afraid to tell me when there was a problem. She was afraid if the unit wasn't making money, I would raise her rent. So when the AC unit froze up in the attic, she just turned it off and opened the windows. Then when it thawed, it overwhelmed the half clogged drain and flooded the ceiling. You would think she would call for help at that point, but no. She called her brother to come over and repair the ceiling which was of course a shit show. All because she didn't want me to call a service company to fix the AC. When I did a walk through, there was dripping sinks, running toilets etc. You want people that can comfortably afford your rent and understand your goals with the property, IE suck the money out of it for a while and move it or keep it nice for a long term investment or improve it as you go. That way they understand that reporting problems is no big deal, either you will ignore them or fix them, but need to know about them to determine consequences.

Let them know there will be walk throughs with some service that is done at regular intervals. I chose bug spraying every 3 months. I made friends with the bug spraying dude and just had him call me when he was going to one of my properties and I would walk through while he was there looking at HVAC filters, breaker panels, water heaters and looking for drug operations or indoor smoking or pets without damage deposits. In my single family units people didn't appreciate that much, but in multifamily, they liked it because it kept shit from getting out of hand. Especially after the first one when they seen I was genuinely just checking on the property and didn't care about their personal shit.
 
Regardless if you rent more than one unit of it, I suggest you pay the 10-15% and get a property manager. It will be a lot of load off your mind.

I partnered with a guy that took care of the "owner" things while I took care of the "property" things for about 5 years in the multi family buis in the slums. And I discovered there's money to be had no matter where it is located even if evictions are on a monthly basis. I learned a tremendous lot on my end and my partner did the same on his end. But I never learned very much on his end except that I do know that the owners made a consistent 7-10% by just investing into the LLC's and doing nothing else. Some made even closer to 15%. And everything was taken care of under a big time Property Manager by just using his name. The PM agreed to it being how the rate was a mere 6% for JUST his name, his check writing and his bank account. By the time I sold out we had over 2,000 units. Units being an individual rental. I'd guess that number is closer to 5k or more today?

But it all started with a 4 unit dwelling that was totally gutted except for 1 old lady that had lived there for like 20 years. In the end what worked was mastered into every single unit from then on. Tile flooring that took a gun shot to fuk up and like an hour to fix. And every unit got the same color paint. Next thing you know I was going to pick up pallets of exact same floor tile to take to a storage house to have on hand and repeatedly going to lowes with that same color number to have another 5-20 gallons mixed up.

I haven't talked to my old partner in several years. I need to make time to do that. I hope it works out for you and most likely it will.:beer:
 
You're planning to live on site, which makes your scenario a little different, but my mom has a place, and I insisted she make the contract the mower guys to keep the yard cut and add it to the rent.

I wouldn't be so fast on the LLC. You are paying out of pocket, there is no scenario in my mind where one could maintain a corporate veil without making it a pain in the ass. And you are living there, you need to change a light bulb... it's kinda nice not having to run it through a corporate account. and they give you money, it's nice just to put that shit directly in your pocket. Plus... The extra tax return...
 
You're planning to live on site, which makes your scenario a little different, but my mom has a place, and I insisted she make the contract the mower guys to keep the yard cut and add it to the rent.

I wouldn't be so fast on the LLC. You are paying out of pocket, there is no scenario in my mind where one could maintain a corporate veil without making it a pain in the ass. And you are living there, you need to change a light bulb... it's kinda nice not having to run it through a corporate account. and they give you money, it's nice just to put that shit directly in your pocket. Plus... The extra tax return...


Loan the LLC the money, set up a contract, get monthly loan payments and interest back. Currently I have a loan at 15% from my company back to me for the laser.


Everything you pay out of pocket can also be reimbursed to you through the company. You just need to keep the proper logs and receipts.

Ultimately a good CPA will keep you out of trouble.
 
it still amazes me that people dont realize just how screwed up that whole deal was.
This. You gotta be real stupid to think that the .gov won't do the same thing next time they have an excuse. The precedent has been set.
 
Regardless if you rent more than one unit of it, I suggest you pay the 10-15% and get a property manager. It will be a lot of load off your mind.

Read that current thread. There are better ways to do business. Real estate market has changed a ton in 15 years.
 
Tile flooring that took a gun shot to fuk up and like an hour to fix. And every unit got the same color paint. Next thing you know I was going to pick up pallets of exact same floor tile to take to a storage house to have on hand and repeatedly going to lowes with that same color number to have another 5-20 gallons mixed up.
What flooring did you have the best luck with, we havent found anything tenant proof! We paint all of our units Dover White.
 
We mostly have decent tenants, but the 5 percent that are shitty, are shitty to the max!

We are also in Colorado where it is impossible to deny tenants, impossible to deny them pets, cant charge a pet deposit anymore, cant charge more rent per month because of pets, etc. Colorado is very anti-landlord. Our California properties are less of a pain...
"no"
'not available'
'already rented'

you new?
:laughing:
 
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