Rotating Cs on D60

[rattle_snake]

I have a '94 Ford ball joint 60 (3.125 tube) and I need to rotate pinion up 12* to ease front driveline angle. I have read some stuff over on that other site, seems there are a few ways. If you have actually done this on a 60 help a brother out...
Plan to remove axle from truck, completely gut and cut of all existing brackets. Secure housing to table, rotate Cs. install new brackets. Drink beer(s).

So what is best/preferred method to so? My current plan is to: Grind weld down as best as possible. Hammer until crack. Heat with torch(?). Use long pipe for leverage and/or hammer C to new spot. How hard of a job is this really?

I would consider buying new Cs so I can just cut off the existing and save time and headache. Kingpin Cs are easy to find, ball joint not so much.
A whole front 60 here is not cheap so not really an option to buy one just to harvest Cs off it.

I have seem some cut tube, sleeve and re-weld. Not really liking that option. Have to source correct sized DOM and my welding kung-foo is just OK.

oh and

 

[welndmn]

If you can fit the grinder by the C while the axle is installed in the rig, that's my preference.
You will have to cut further and hit it harder than you think too.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

On the BJ 60 I did, I used a 6" cutoff disc and sliced the weld all the way around the tube directly up against the back of the C. The initial cut takes a bit to get perfect so you are not into the tube but once you get it down to where you can see a parting line its easy from there. Once I had it cut ll the way around I ground out the old weld with a carbide bit in 4 spots evenly, heated the C and then beat it into the new position with a mini sledge and a 2x4 as a backing. Once it was in position I used my cutoff wheel to measure the gap around the old weld I left on there to make sure it wasn't crooked, and then tacked it in the 4 spots I had previously cleaned. Once it was confirmed it was good to go I ground down the rest of the old welds and started making passes with the mig. I did the exact same thing to a Ford HP44 I built and it worked just as good on that axle.

 

[rattle_snake]

If you can fit the grinder by the C while the axle is installed in the rig, that's my preference.
You will have to cut further and hit it harder than you think too.

That was what I gathered from old posts and hence this thread. Hammer the fuck out of it. Profanity, whiskey and so on.

Working with a radius arm/coilover setup. Have to cut CO mounts off that are welded to Cs. Link brackets need to rotate too so I bough new brackets and will plasma off the old. So everything needs to get cut off, then can get grinder in there. Can do one side at a time on 2 post lift .

 

[rattle_snake]

On the BJ 60 I did, I used a 6" cutoff disc and sliced the weld all the way around the tube directly up against the back of the C. The initial cut takes a bit to get perfect so you are not into the tube but once you get it down to where you can see a parting line its easy from there. Once I had it cut ll the way around I ground out the old weld with a carbide bit in 4 spots evenly, heated the C and then beat it into the new position with a mini sledge and a 2x4 as a backing. Once it was in position I used my cutoff wheel to measure the gap around the old weld I left on there to make sure it wasn't crooked, and then tacked it in the 4 spots I had previously cleaned. Once it was confirmed it was good to go I ground down the rest of the old welds and started making passes with the mig. I did the exact same thing to a Ford HP44 I built and it worked just as good on that axle.

Thanks for the detailed description. How hot do you get the C's? Glowing red or just to 200-300 F or so? Assume this will cook inner axle seal @ diff, so would remove them first.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Definitely not glowing red hot. I heated the chunk wrapped around the tube to maybe 400 or 500° and then proceded to beat them into their new home.

 

[RDY2ROK]

Blow out the welds with an Air Arc, lean on the knuckle with a 60 inch pipe wrench while heating, turn as needed. Weld 'er back up.

 

[thedirtman]

Just remove the tubes at the the differential and install new ones with a Kingpin. Get the width you want and move the diff a bit towards the center for a little more real estate on the driver side tube for brackets. Why do all that work to keep ball joints and stub tube?

 

[2big bronco]

Air arc or scarf it out with a torch. Heat it up and hit it with your purse. If It was in a truck I'd just do it in the truck and probably disassemble as little as possible. Take the wheels off and maybe remove the drag link for better access. The nice thing about using an air arc or torch is its really obvious when you get all the way through the weld.

 

[Nkldrgr]

When I did the exact same thing to mine, I was not able to rotate inner C on the tube. I had to remove it and put it back on. I put the inner C in the oven to about 250 degrees. It took some light whacking with a medium hammer to get it on, then rotated to the proper position.

 

[Aisin]

Cut and sleeve. You’d be a fucking retard to even touch the Cs.

 

[Mr Stubs]

That is definitely not a desirable BJ axle IMOP.

Rotating the C’s.... fuck that. I have pics on the old site from my sweat fit fuck up and what I had to do to fix it.

1” steel plate, welded the the grousers of the dozer, housing chained and welded to the plate, constant cold water running over tube with makeshift sheet steel dam at C, torch, sledge hammer, and about a hour to rotate it 12*.

 

[rockdog57]

My experience on my kingpin 60 was a coarse in how to learn every swear word known to man...and a few new made up ones. Cutting as mentioned. Heating the hell out of the chunk. Pounding like hell with a big long handled bfh until my arms were ready to fall off. Never ever doing that again!

 

[rattle_snake]

Mixed bag as expected. High probability of job being a major pain in the ass. Perhaps and excuse to pick up an air arc....

 

[Dan's EB]

Mixed bag as expected. High probability of job being a major pain in the ass. Perhaps and excuse to pick up an air arc....

Just an FYI. I rotated the knuckles on my D44 EB back 10 degrees. Just grind out the weld, I used a 4.5 grinder. Be careful not to get into the tube too much. Heat up the knuckle and whack on it with a BFH. I did it on a bench. Center punched the tube end for reference and punched another mark at 10 degrees so I knew when to stop whacking it. It's not rocket surgery, just do it.
My pinion angle is almost straight and I have 5 degrees of caster now. Drives great.

I did a write up back in the day at that other site that we don't mention. I could probably find pics if you're interested.

Dan

 

[Snoop dogg]

Just an FYI. I rotated the knuckles on my D44 EB back 10 degrees. Just grind out the weld, I used a 4.5 grinder. Be careful not to get into the tube too much. Heat up the knuckle and whack on it with a BFH. I did it on a bench. Center punched the tube end for reference and punched another mark at 10 degrees so I knew when to stop whacking it. It's not rocket surgery, just do it.
My pinion angle is almost straight and I have 5 degrees of caster now. Drives great.

I did a write up back in the day at that other site that we don't mention. I could probably find pics if you're interested.

Dan

44's are definitely easier to rotate, weld is easier to get through etc. Just less of an effort overall than a 60.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Just remove the tubes at the the differential and install new ones with a Kingpin. Get the width you want and move the diff a bit towards the center for a little more real estate on the driver side tube for brackets. Why do all that work to keep ball joints and stub tube?

What rock do you live under?

That is definitely not a desirable BJ axle IMOP.

Whys that? The inner c's are the same as 99-04 and as far as I know the knuckles aren't weak. Having serviceable hubs instead of unit bearings isn't a downside necessarily.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Whys that? The inner c's are the same as 99-04 and as far as I know the knuckles aren't weak. Having serviceable hubs instead of unit bearings isn't a downside necessarily.

Exactly, about the only factory Dana 60 I would consider appreciably more desirable would be an '05+ Dana 60. I don't see any real advantage of the '99-'04 axle over the '92-'97 version other than the slightly stronger axle tubes. I personally would prefer the traditional spindle and bearing setup over the relatively weak '99-'04 unit bearings which are notorious for wearing out quickly on big heavy trucks running big tires.

I don't get why people are telling him to completely upgrade/swap out his front axle when all he is trying to do is fix his drive shaft bind issue and get some decent caster. This truck is not a hardcore wheeler (no disrespect rattle_snake), and that axle will serve him just fine for what I imagine his intended use is. My cousin had that same axle in his 460 F350 that he beats the piss out of on 39.5" tires, and once he upgraded to 35 spline outers and slugs (which you would need to do on pretty much any pre-'05 axle), the axle has been pretty reliable.

As far as rotating the "C"s goes, the "easy" way to do it is to cut them off and sleeve the tube internally, which contrary to what some web wheelers may say is plenty stout and works just fine. Rotating the "C"s on the existing tubes is going to suck no matter how you do it, but will be the cleaner way to do it. The methods have already been pretty well hashed out in this thread.

 

[ChiScouter]

I was always puzzled as to why people didn't just use outer sleeves, seems like the easiest way to go about it.

 

[Snoop dogg]

I was always puzzled as to why people didn't just use outer sleeves, seems like the easiest way to go about it.

Like just cut a long side tube in half, slide new outer tube on existing tube...slide the cut piece back in to desired length and degree, weld it up?? plug welds and nice bevels on ends of new outer tube new weld at chunk and new weld at c

U think 1/4 inch wall with plug welds good enough?

Just curious, havent done it this way but def seems the least hassle for a trail rig especially

 

[RunningProblem]

this seems easier like an easy way to rotate the passenger side C. Unsure how much space is available on the driver side, but it should be enough to cut and add a sleeve.

Like just cut a long side tube in half, slide new outer tube on existing tube...slide the cut piece back in to desired length and degree, weld it up?? plug welds and nice bevels on ends of new outer tube new weld at chunk and new weld at c

U think 1/4 inch wall with plug welds good enough?

Just curious, havent done it this way but def seems the least hassle for a trail rig especially

 

[rattle_snake]

I was able to modify my 1350 double cardan driveshaft for increased max angle and no longer NEED to rotate the Cs on this axle. For proper geometry (0* @ pinion) I should but I'm lazy and with lockouts shaft won't turn at high speeds. I was able to increase double cardan angle from 27 to 34 with minor clearancing. I did already buy new brackets but fuck it just saved a shit ton of time, pain and suffering. Can use the whiskey for other purposes now.

Thanks for most everyone's inputs and experieces.