Really could do with some inventor, entrepreneurial, business person advice please

[Drummer79]

 

[3nuts*]

Some basic advice is “perfect is the enemy of good”, meaning don’t stress over getting every detail perfect in your mind before launching. You’ll get much better feedback from beta testers and initial customers and be able to refine it more quickly based on that. Minimum viable product and continually improve.

Keep going, even when it sucks.

You prompted me to go back over a part of the design after thinking more about backing off on trying to make it perfect. Thanks
I feel stupid I missed this but it enabled me to remove some parts and unnecessary complexity. As the best engineers say, it's better to not have apart if possible, or something like that. hey, I'm tired.

I felt like giving up today while at work.
I woke up feeling shit and down about all of this. Probably the worst I've had it.
Thought during the day I am going back to try and solve headaches I have no idea how to fix after working all day on site.
'So fuck it, I should just stop instead of this bullshit.'

I listened to some music, some motivational bs and forced myself to sit at the PC when I got home.

It's tonight I removed some stuff I didn't need and a new design popped into my head. And that bits solved now. I think


At worst, I'll be using this thing myself and really enjoying it because I think it'll be great and fun. Plus I'll share with friends and family plus strangers I think it'll help sort of thing.

 

[3nuts*]

If your working towards a big "reward" your not going to be happy.

The work your putting into the project and the time your dedicating to the project IS the reward.

Great point.

I'm not looking for ultimate happiness out of this.
Fortunately I and my little family are pretty content with what we already have.

I absolutely understand how many things can be actually badly effected if people's business / idea is successful.
Thinking and feeling this way makes me appreciate everything good in our lives right now as it is, more than ever.
I don't ever want to look back on these good simple times, that I've somehow fucked up and never being able to rewind the clock once the genie is out of the bottle. It's a bizarre feeling.

The best way to put it is I feel obligated to see this out.
I seems to be at an intersection of quite a few things in my life coming together right now. Skills, attitude and reasons.

I think about 30% of the time on the keyboard I feel it's fun. Being creative.
It's never much fun away from the keyboard. Probably 10%, when I realise an solution.

 

[3nuts*]

My advise is keep grinding. The worst case is you will learn a lot for next idea, building a business is a lot of trial and error, re-inventing, and learning from mistakes. No one ever gets it completely right ever. But if your not out there playing the game you will never give your self a chance to win.

I have a few ideas, the next two are fun ones.

One I have wanted to for longer than this project.
The other is much more recent, after I started this current head ache.
But they both involve chemistry. Which I am not good at

Back in dreamer mode I hope this project works and I can work full time on the next one or two, and hire/contract help.
All a dream, but still a goal to aim for

 

[jamscal]

I brought a simple product to market and it did ok...actually pretty great but I sold out early and took a royalty for 5 years.

It was a fun/learning experience and good mailbox money for awhile.

What I learned:

You will be copied. I was copied in the proof of concept stage lol. There is very little/nothing that you can do even if you have a patent except start spending money on a lawyer.

Say you spend $10k (IDK?) on a patent, and then you're copied. Prepare to spend another 10k to get started with your lawyer.

Marketing is more important than you think.

Make sure you know that the retail price is going to be at least double what it costs to make.

Finally, I own a welding and fab shop and have had several 'customers' want me to make their 'inventions' I'll just say there are a whole lot of dreamers out there....almost like they think their good idea will start making millions without meaningful input from them.

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

Last piece of advice I have is don’t bet the farm on it either. Work on it in your free time and cash. Don’t mortgage the house and lose your main job because of this. Seen way too many auctions of guys who bet the farm on the next great thing and it didn’t work out.

 

[pinchegringo]

If it's a niche market/low volume/under the radar type of deal you can totally handle it yourself. If it's more than that you will have to take out loans just to (proof of concept) it before you can sell the idea.
Patents are now designed to discourage small folk and benefit big business.
When it comes to money there is no shortage of people willing to rip off your idea.
My shop built 30 years worth of designs that are custom car industry standards now.
I've made some money too but a 2k 90 degree brake pedal is now $100 from China.
I've had well known air ride companies patent stuff I had clearly been selling for years.
What I'm trying to say is the days of a great original idea being a smash hit are over and end stage capitalism has made navigating something like that almost impossible.
Life is short. Don't give up on your dreams but also don't stop living because your working. All that shit I did means nothing now.

 

[Poke]

Call me if you want to chat. I built a world wide product, didn’t understand enough. Got thousands of clients globally, didn’t monetize it properly, needed to switch focus personally at a vital point in growth/marketing/development and became a statistic a few hundred g’s lost and unknown hours.

I don’t consider it a lost opportunity but it probably was. I made a bird in hand decision that crushed the development/roll out. Hindsight, something I don’t let creep in my brain after the lesson is learned. I only care about the lesson not what coulda been.

 

[3nuts*]

Marketing is more important than you think.

Make sure you know that the retail price is going to be at least double what it costs to make.

Finally, I own a welding and fab shop and have had several 'customers' want me to make their 'inventions' I'll just say there are a whole lot of dreamers out there....almost like they think their good idea will start making millions without meaningful input from them.

Marketing is one my favourite topics I'm learning at the moment.
Mainly because it's so new and different to me, but makes a lot of sense.

I've listened to many of the Marketing School podcast with Neil Patel and Eric Siu and started the Marketing Made Simple podcast too because I've listened to the last 3 months of that first podcast and up to date.

I'm actually looking forward to this bit if my thing looks like growing wings.

Absolutely will get a lot of help here.
Even if I already have a tonne of marketing and promo ideas...that the marketing help may dismiss

Last piece of advice I have is don’t bet the farm on it either. Work on it in your free time and cash. Don’t mortgage the house and lose your main job because of this. Seen way too many auctions of guys who bet the farm on the next great thing and it didn’t work out.

I have the odd thought of borrowing against the family home if I need to. But it'd have to be a pretty sure ROI if that happens.
Of course I'd rather get some help with a backer or two, and I know a few I'm happy to bail up. But that brings other issues if they do jump on board. I'd like to think I'd be a good steward with their hard earned.

Not close to deciding yet on the financing, but thanks for the heads up.

I work 30 odd hours for pay as a tradie. And spend about 25hrs a week on this for a total of 55 hrs/wk.
This leaves plenty of time for family stuff and two separate weekly engagements with two other close mates.
One is an online gaming night and the other a slot car championship in my garage

My shop built 30 years worth of designs that are custom car industry standards now.

I've had well known air ride companies patent stuff I had clearly been selling for years.

All that shit I did means nothing now.

What happens if you made and sold stuff for say a few years with no patent, then someone files a patent for that thing, can they come after you?

Or because you have already been selling it and can prove it they can only stop you from making money on the thing from the time they file the patent?

All that shit you did meams something - TO ME right now as in I can learn from your experiences
Sharing is caring

Call me if you want to chat. I built a world wide product, didn’t understand enough. Got thousands of clients globally, didn’t monetize it properly, needed to switch focus personally at a vital point in growth/marketing/development and became a statistic a few hundred g’s lost and unknown hours.

I don’t consider it a lost opportunity but it probably was. I made a bird in hand decision that crushed the development/roll out. Hindsight, something I don’t let creep in my brain after the lesson is learned. I only care about the lesson not what coulda been.

I'm keen to hear your story and what you learnt

You see I'm in Australia yes?

 

[3nuts*]

Have to say you guys are helping me think straighter. Thanks.


I listen to a lot of podcasts.

My First Million - tackiest name ever but legends.
Money Wise - A real eye popper

Just started Andy Frisella thanks to a member messaging me

a16z

Marketing School - Digital Marketing and online Marketing tips.
Marketing Made Simple.

Hard Fork
The Verge Cast
Tech news Weekly

Hidden Brain


But...they focus on success. Well d'uh

What I really also want is a podcast where people tell their near miss stories.
Stories where they nearly made it and what went wrong. Yes, the success story tellers do share all their fails, but what about that ones that always failed until the end. Whatever the end was for them.
Surely those would be even more of a learning experience?

Anyone want to have a go at that with me if this fails?
The Yank and Aussie Near Miss Pod

 

[Pony_Driver]

Yeah, part of the reason China keeps their prices so low is to facilitate intellectual property theft.

Not always. snivilous had some billet knuckles built there for the same reasons and so far they've been great

I wasn't commenting on the quality, I was implying IP theft.

 

[OHV Wildcat]

You prompted me to go back over a part of the design after thinking more about backing off on trying to make it perfect. Thanks
I feel stupid I missed this but it enabled me to remove some parts and unnecessary complexity. As the best engineers say, it's better to not have apart if possible, or something like that. hey, I'm tired.

I felt like giving up today while at work.
I woke up feeling shit and down about all of this. Probably the worst I've had it.
Thought during the day I am going back to try and solve headaches I have no idea how to fix after working all day on site.
'So fuck it, I should just stop instead of this bullshit.'

I listened to some music, some motivational bs and forced myself to sit at the PC when I got home.

It's tonight I removed some stuff I didn't need and a new design popped into my head. And that bits solved now. I think


At worst, I'll be using this thing myself and really enjoying it because I think it'll be great and fun. Plus I'll share with friends and family plus strangers I think it'll help sort of thing.

I’ve been hoping it’s a printable pistol caliber carbine.

But reading that last little bit, I’m now convinced it’s a new twist on a fuck machine.

 

[pinchegringo]

What happens if you made and sold stuff for say a few years with no patent, then someone files a patent for that thing, can they come after you?

Cost too much to litigate. Person with the biggest stick wins. You may be in the right but they can drag it out longer than you can pay for it.
You have to understand our system and laws are built entirely by wealthy elites to serve the needs of the wealthy.
Take the patent deal as an example,
File a patent and it can take years. Make one verbiage mistake or it's too close to one already on the books and it's rejected.
Sending it back corrected is just another series of years lost,back and forth forever.
Spend 50k plus for patent lawyers to deliver it and the whole process happens like magic.

 

[arse_sidewards]

printable pistol caliber carbine.

Glawk fawty carbine and done.

 

[Poke]

Marketing is one my favourite topics I'm learning at the moment.
Mainly because it's so new and different to me, but makes a lot of sense.

I've listened to many of the Marketing School podcast with Neil Patel and Eric Siu and started the Marketing Made Simple podcast too because I've listened to the last 3 months of that first podcast and up to date.

I'm actually looking forward to this bit if my thing looks like growing wings.

Absolutely will get a lot of help here.
Even if I already have a tonne of marketing and promo ideas...that the marketing help may dismiss




I have the odd thought of borrowing against the family home if I need to. But it'd have to be a pretty sure ROI if that happens.
Of course I'd rather get some help with a backer or two, and I know a few I'm happy to bail up. But that brings other issues if they do jump on board. I'd like to think I'd be a good steward with their hard earned.

Not close to deciding yet on the financing, but thanks for the heads up.

I work 30 odd hours for pay as a tradie. And spend about 25hrs a week on this for a total of 55 hrs/wk.
This leaves plenty of time for family stuff and two separate weekly engagements with two other close mates.
One is an online gaming night and the other a slot car championship in my garage





What happens if you made and sold stuff for say a few years with no patent, then someone files a patent for that thing, can they come after you?

Or because you have already been selling it and can prove it they can only stop you from making money on the thing from the time they file the patent?

All that shit you did meams something - TO ME right now as in I can learn from your experiences
Sharing is caring




I'm keen to hear your story and what you learnt

You see I'm in Australia yes?

So what if your ancestors were criminals banished to a desert island. I don’t care. If you speak English in a way I can understand it.

 

[78bronco460]

The a vacation. Come back to the project fresh and rested. Things will be easier to sort out.

 

[johnnyrover]

don't grind for grinding sake. validate there are potential customers. understand when people tell you its a good idea, they are being supportive, ask them to invest to understand how good of an idea it is. I advise startups and execs, sent a message if you want to chat further.

 

[Gunwalls_Buckthorne]

Accountability meeting with someone you look up to. It’s much harder to disappoint someone you look up to than it is to procrastinate.

 

[AKnate]

He is about to see how expensive that $14k in savings was.

I saw a video for a neat speed square (aka triangle) that the fence can fold flat for doing layout work, like on a sheet of steel.

Thought I found it on Amazon. $30, meh what the heck, I've wasted worse on less.

Comes in and it's got a random piece and bolt, nothing threaded and the fence just flops around. There's a level bubble, but the liquid is so thick it takes like a minute for the bubble to move.
I mess with it a bit, figured I'm just retarded and can't figure it out or something.

End up doing some research and find out it's a Chinese copy and the real one is actually $145 . The copy is like 95% right. The extra piece and bolt are supposed to attach to the square and the fence is supposed to have tabs that lock it which weren't there.

It's an issue to where the company has a section on their website showing the copies.

SmartSquare Tools - The Future of Rafter Squares

Buy a SmartSquare and take part in shaping the future of carpentry.

smartsquaretools.com

Look at all the "clones" of Honda engines, most are pretty decent. Or the Stihl and Husqvarna clones.. some okish, some not.

Even if it's Patented, trademarked, copyrighted, whatever, seems like there's no punishment... and they're smart enough to know how to work the system. Like that square... if it's not quite a copy, is it a copy? There's like 20 different "brands" of them and I only found the real one after a bunch of searching.

How many folks got suckered and decided whatever, not worth the time to return it, if even possible.
Amazon refunded my money and told me to toss it, though I spent probably 15-20 mins with them showing it was a fake.

 

[AKnate]

Last piece of advice I have is don’t bet the farm on it either. Work on it in your free time and cash. Don’t mortgage the house and lose your main job because of this. Seen way too many auctions of guys who bet the farm on the next great thing and it didn’t work out.

Agreed.

Have seen plenty of start up businesses only last a year or two.

Had a guy call me a few years ago seeing if I was interested in their firewood equipment.

Him and a buddy both retired from being police occifers and decided to put 2nd mortgages on their places, borrow from their retirement, etc to buy a piece of land, firewood processor, mini front end loader, couple 1 ton dumps, etc.
Something around 500k of borrowed $$.

They didn't even last a year and lost everything. Said they couldn't get customers... I'd never even heard of them before so not sure what they were doing... it's not a huge area and we all pretty much know each other that do logging, firewood, etc..

I felt bad as gad I known a few months prior, I could have sent them easily 200 cords worth of orders, aside couldn't keep up with demand.

Considered buying some of their stuff, but I didn't have 100k sitting around. They wanted like 60k for a 140k Bells processor.

 

[grumpy356]

It's a kick start dildo isn't it???

We know it is.

And people have been toying around with the idea for years, so good luck on your being innovative.
The common problems have always been heat protection from the exhaust, decibel level, and CO.

 

[ev13wt]

Maybe the stress is only from the secrecy over time buddy.

Book a two week vacation for everyone in the house. Get them out. Work. Sleep. Work.

 

[ev13wt]

If you break the silence it could give you real feedback. Which removes the stress.

 

[Grnjp92]

If you break the silence it could give you real feedback. Which removes the stress.

Or atleast a hint that we can derail the thread! Lol

 

[JolietJames]

Follow through until you can't. Not knowing will eat you up man.
I'll be following this one.
It's very helpful hearing from those who have been through it already.
I don't even know what I don't know yet.

I intend to bring a product to market in two months. The prototypes will be test marketed locally. My worry is not knowing market demand to schedule production. I can handle the prototypes and initial run but if there is any serious demand I will need to outsource some production.
I am trying to set something up with a local guy who specializes in small startups next week. I got his name through a company that leases a connected building to my shop. Hopefully he can answer since questions without breaking the bank.

 

[Jeffh555]

I have some experience in patents and product development, I've been a mechanical engineer for 15+ years, with a decent amount of product development.

A previous employer applied for patents on two of my inventions while I was working there. Patents were issued years later when I was no longer at the company. This was a large corporation with a healthy legal budget. I was pretty un-involved with the patent except for a couple meeting with the lawyers.

I later worked for a smaller company and the owner wanted to patent something that I invented. I talked to some lawyers I knew personally, got some personal recommendations and ended up working with Ward Law Office Ward Law Office LLC – Registered Patent Attorney. IIRC it was about $7k for the patent. I liked working with them and would recommend them. The patent has been filed, but not awarded yet.

A provisional patent is way cheaper, I think he said $1k, but is only good for a year. The patent office doesn't do anything with them, they don't review them or publish them.

Either way you can say patent-pending, and it may deter a competitor from copying you.

When I was in college, we were taught that patents were granted to the first person who could prove the invented something. People would seal and mail themselves drawings, so they could use it as proof. It wasn't that strong of a legal case, but it was something. Things have changed, it's not first to invent, it's first to file. The provisional patent gives you that earlier filing date.

With regards to patents I constantly weigh up the pro's and cons for the reasons mentioned above.
Worst fear either way is if I don't patent and it goes well on the market - someone will patent it all and come after me. That'd be really shit.

What happens if you made and sold stuff for say a few years with no patent, then someone files a patent for that thing, can they come after you?

Or because you have already been selling it and can prove it they can only stop you from making money on the thing from the time they file the patent?

You see I'm in Australia yes?

I'm pretty sure someone else can't patent it if your invention is public before they file. For something to be patentable it needs to be new, useful, and not obvious. If you launch the product before filing a patent, then it's no longer new, it's public information.

The problem is, the patent office isn't that thorough, they'll award patents for things that aren't new. Nothing will happen unless someone sues over it.

Disclaimer, I'm an engineer, not a lawyer.

I just saw that you're in Australia, I don't know if any of this is useful.

 

[What?]

Do it

Motivation is temporary, goal is set to be accomplished.

The gap in between 2 are extremely wide than you think

Success is depends on your determination of hitting the goal.

 

[johnnyrover]

a patent, copyright, trademark is only as good as your enforcement of it.

 

[3nuts*]

Today I was back at Plan A.

Make the goods, prepare the demo and finalise my promo that goes with it.
Show select people I trust who also have done really well in businesses.
I know these people well, done lots and lots of unrelated work with them, and they'll be brutal if it's shit. Ouch.
They've trusted me much in the past and same me them.
Not even going to plead for dough at this stage. Just need their brains.
So does this seem a good idea?

And should I get them all together at once and show them all at once? Or singly?


Then if the feedback is great I think I'll start dealing out just locally for market testing, product testing and then let it expand organically/slowly if it's really any good.

Not much dough down and no outside VC type bozo/s telling me what to do.
Grow it slowly, locally, on our own.

What say ye all?

If the presentation meeting goes well, I'll let you know.
If it don't go well, and I'm actually just another one of those 1 in eleventy trillion dreaming kook dickheads, then HGTD.
I think that's fair huh

If you break the silence it could give you real feedback. Which removes the stress.

Hopefully I will be able to demonstrate within 6 months.
I have a few trusted people I want to show first.
I've got the marketing hook thingy (or whatever it's called, I'm farken tired again here) to throw around when I demonstrate.
Can't wait to see finally.


Then I'll know some of the truth.

Follow through until you can't. Not knowing will eat you up man.
I'll be following this one.
It's very helpful hearing from those who have been through it already.
I don't even know what I don't know yet.

I intend to bring a product to market in two months. The prototypes will be test marketed locally. My worry is not knowing market demand to schedule production. I can handle the prototypes and initial run but if there is any serious demand I will need to outsource some production.
I am trying to set something up with a local guy who specializes in small startups next week. I got his name through a company that leases a connected building to my shop. Hopefully he can answer since questions without breaking the bank.

Awesome. Thanks for posting.
Stoked if this thread helps others too.

So what's your product?

You go first

Do it

Motivation is temporary, goal is set to be accomplished.

The gap in between 2 are extremely wide than you think

Success is depends on your determination of hitting the goal.

Problem within myself thinks "Hey, I'm really really determined..so this must be a success. Go even more all in."



I'm wrong a lot about stuff and remind myself

I have a Bi-Polar belief system

a patent, copyright, trademark is only as good as your enforcement of it.

Good point. Been thinking about that today.
I read some of this thread during the day when at work. And reply at night, when my eyes are hanging out.

 

[What?]

Today I was back at Plan A.


Problem within myself thinks "Hey, I'm really really determined..so this must be a success. Go even more all in."



I'm wrong a lot about stuff and remind myself

I have a Bi-Polar belief system

Goal would be black and white. A working device or your idea actually functioning.

Go watch this movie. Tucker the man and his dream. That's example of determination if you will

168 hours in a week, how you spend them is up to you


Another advice. Don't worry about problem/s that doesn't exist yet