rallycross/autocross - good resources?

[Kunker]

Bored as hell and looking at going racing next year. We have a local rallycross series that runs Jan-March, and your typical parking lot autocross events in the summer. Thinking about picking up a cheap beater and going out to have some fun. Any places I can look for tech on how to better set up a car for this kind of stuff? Or am I over thinking it already?

 

[DWT]

Depends how fast or competitive you want to be. I autocrosses my Toyota pickup for a few years and it was a hoot. Not overly fast but it handles real well and nobody expects it to.

If you want to be fast get a miata. Seriously they're like born to be raced and all the setup information is out there already for whatever you want to do with it. The aftermarket is ginormous too.

 

[rugger]

Second the miata suggestion. Take a 1st or second gen miata. Add brakes, aftermarket coilovers and anti-sways and some decent brake pads and you are racing.

edit: that parts list, including the car, could be $2500 if you buy the car right.

 

[Kunker]

Depends how fast or competitive you want to be. I autocrosses my Toyota pickup for a few years and it was a hoot. Not overly fast but it handles real well and nobody expects it to.

If you want to be fast get a miata. Seriously they're like born to be raced and all the setup information is out there already for whatever you want to do with it. The aftermarket is ginormous too.

Don't care to be the fastest/most competitive with the field, mostly with myself. I also don't want to bomb a Miata around in the snow. Will probably end up in an S-10 or other mini-truck because it's more my style.

 

[Arps]

Side by side on street tires. They rip!

 

[Fivepointfive]

No open roof cars in rally, even caged. I'd suspect the same for rallycross.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ is your friend. Haven't been in a while but their forum kicks ass.

 

[Kunker]

No open roof cars in rally, even caged. I'd suspect the same for rallycross.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ is your friend. Haven't been in a while but their forum kicks ass.

Funny, I was watching their youtube channel last night for helmet selection tips. Thanks!

 

[Hooptie]

No open roof cars in rally, even caged. I'd suspect the same for rallycross.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ is your friend. Haven't been in a while but their forum kicks ass.

SCCA opened up to SxS late last year, but there are safety and dimension guidelines. ARA, also allows them, but definitely must update the tinfoil cage and other safety equipment. I would have one, lowered on rally tires, but for now too rich for my blood and enough projects to stay busy.

One car can certainly do it all with a tire change, depending on rallycross course terrain. Snow tires are easy button for cars. Compact truck opens you up to a/t or m/t tires depending on course requirements. The options are wide open, we have a wide variety of cars at rallycross that would be equally at home at autocross with a tire change. Handling and finding something to be fun wherever you drive it would be best.

I know you weren't digging Miatas, but this one does it all. Not much autocross this year due to Covid, but we started our own independent rally group this year to add more events than just SCCA. (Sorry if pics are huge)

2 weeks ago on a MX track we ran an independent event on:

Last year on the concrete at Sebring:

 

[DWT]

Don't care to be the fastest/most competitive with the field, mostly with myself. I also don't want to bomb a Miata around in the snow. Will probably end up in an S-10 or other mini-truck because it's more my style.

S10 is pretty nose heavy but a V6 would at least make decent power.

My Toyota is a riot on the track. Stock Toyota 1 ton torsion bars and front sway bar, urethane bushings throughout and monomax shocks front and rear has proven to be a solid setup. The front shocks are actually from an s10 blazer since they're shorter and valved for a much heavier rig. Don't forget brakes too, I run stock parts from other toyotas to make them work. The master and booster are from a V6 model and I use braided lines. Not sure what the pads are, they came on the truck. I bought Hawks most aggressive pad for it but whatever came on it has been great and they're still not worn out, I was going to swap them when they were ded but they're still holding tough so I ended up using the hawk pads on my DD and they're silly good with the same upgraded parts as the autocross truck.

 

[Kunker]

SCCA opened up to SxS late last year, but there are safety and dimension guidelines. ARA, also allows them, but definitely must update the tinfoil cage and other safety equipment. I would have one, lowered on rally tires, but for now too rich for my blood and enough projects to stay busy.

One car can certainly do it all with a tire change, depending on rallycross course terrain. Snow tires are easy button for cars. Compact truck opens you up to a/t or m/t tires depending on course requirements. The options are wide open, we have a wide variety of cars at rallycross that would be equally at home at autocross with a tire change. Handling and finding something to be fun wherever you drive it would be best.

I know you weren't digging Miatas, but this one does it all. Not much autocross this year due to Covid, but we started our own independent rally group this year to add more events than just SCCA. (Sorry if pics are huge)

2 weeks ago on a MX track we ran an independent event on:


Last year on the concrete at Sebring:

More that I think expectations would be higher if I show up in a Miata as I know it's a pretty dominant platform for handling, and I know I'm going to suck. I started driving in a 89 Hardbody, then a 92 S10, so throwing a mini truck around like an idiot is what I'm currently comfortable with. If I could find a non-rust bucket Nissan, I'd rock that, but Onterrible and road salt killed them.

 

[Kunker]

S10 is pretty nose heavy but a V6 would at least make decent power.

My Toyota is a riot on the track. Stock Toyota 1 ton torsion bars and front sway bar, urethane bushings throughout and monomax shocks front and rear has proven to be a solid setup. The front shocks are actually from an s10 blazer since they're shorter and valved for a much heavier rig. Don't forget brakes too, I run stock parts from other toyotas to make them work. The master and booster are from a V6 model and I use braided lines. Not sure what the pads are, they came on the truck. I bought Hawks most aggressive pad for it but whatever came on it has been great and they're still not worn out, I was going to swap them when they were ded but they're still holding tough so I ended up using the hawk pads on my DD and they're silly good with the same upgraded parts as the autocross truck.

Looking at 4cyl/5speed trucks where I can to keep weight down. I felt like the Nissan could walk all over the 4.3 S10 based on balance and HP for available traction when I was a dumbass teen. If I can find a non-rusted out Toy for budget, it's an option. There is an AWD Suzuki Aerio locally cheap that might fit the bill too.

 

[Hooptie]

More that I think expectations would be higher if I show up in a Miata as I know it's a pretty dominant platform for handling, and I know I'm going to suck. I started driving in a 89 Hardbody, then a 92 S10, so throwing a mini truck around like an idiot is what I'm currently comfortable with. If I could find a non-rust bucket Nissan, I'd rock that, but Onterrible and road salt killed them.

RWD is typically the slowest drive format at rallycross, but sideways and smiling through the oversteer is also the funnest. Went to the first SCCA autocross as a novice with requisite "instructor ride along", she didn't seem to find pendulum turns as entertaining as I did. Just go out to have fun and race your own times.

I started with this chassis because it was $500 running/driving and had a stack of spare parts. It's done some Gambler events, 2 years of SCCA, and a few independent rally events. Looking at doing a ranger rallycross build in the future. I think a truck would be handier off track, and easy to tote spare tires/coolers/etc in the back.

 

[Donk]

R50/53 mini? Those things are nimble and seriously fun.

SWB Montero? Not sure if it'd fit any of the classes but they've got Dakar heritage.

 

[unstoppable778]

I'm an avid auto crosser, done this for 4 years now.

Started in a Miata -> 02 Cougar -> C5 Vette -> Fox Mustang
Co-driven my friends Civics, S2000s, Vettes and Mustangs... Usually make it to maybe 15 events a year.

You wanna know what? Its a racecar if you race it. Too many people get hung up in "I don't have the right car / mods / helmet / the balls to do it"
I see everything from built Vettes to stone stock automatic Corollas. You wanna know what everyone has in common? We all have fun!

Put up with the homo / hairdresser jokes and get a Miata. Or come out of the closet and embrace your true self. Nothing is going to teach you to drive better than a Miata.

For your first 3-4 events dont screw with the damn thing. You wanna go faster? Adjust the nut behind the wheel!
Hop in every car for a ride-along you can. I got a ride in a fully prepped '69 C3 and nearly creamed myself (6 figure build easy).
Have the good people ride along with you and tell you where you can go faster.
Some regions have novice schools - go to one.
Every single person I've met at an autocross are nice people. I messed up one time and put my Vette in a ditch. Once we pulled it out I had 5 guys swarm me and say "what do we need to do to get you home?"
Everyone is willing to try and help you go faster, especially for a novice.
Its CHEAP. like $40 for a full day of entertainment.
Most events are found on motorsportreg.com. Great site, easy as pie and free.
https://www.motorsportreg.com/calendar/

Even if you rallycross (no experience there), the damn Miata's are still nationally competitive! check the 2019 nationals results. top 3 cars in ANY RWD class are Miata's.
http://file:///C:/Users/oy816/Downloads/19_RXN_Final_Results.pdf

True Rally is way way tougher to get into. Full cage, logbooks, different licenses (they don't let novices start in turbo cars as an example) way higher event cost, harder vehicle prep. Do your research if you're serious about that.

 

[unstoppable778]

Also, saying you dont wanna bomb a Miata in the snow is DUMB. They're a hoot in the snow. Get some blizzaks and show the cul-de-sac why they should call you the drift king. I never did it but my little brother did 2 years of MN winter driving in a Miata. They do great.

 

[DWT]

You wanna know what? Its a racecar if you race it. Too many people get hung up in "I don't have the right car / mods / helmet / the balls to do it"
I see everything from built Vettes to stone stock automatic Corollas. You wanna know what everyone has in common? We all have fun!

Great over all post but this is a seriously under rated concept. Just fucking go. I put off auto crossing for like 10 years because my junk was never good enough. I finally just went out and did it and was hooked.

One of the most fun guys to watch was a kid in a front wheel drive impreza. He drove the wheels off that thing, he finally figured out that running 45 psi in his rear tires got rid of the under steer and let the rear rotate. Kid had zero fucks and was a hoot to watch.

 

[mjlogan88]

Stepdad was a national champ in SCCA autocross. Stock '90 MR2 turbo. Stock class was super competitive and fun. I think all you could change was tires, shocks, and exhaust system. You kind of need to pick the class you want to run, then go buy a competitive car for that class. 20 years ago it went something like Z06 vette for A stock, 325 bmw for D stock, miata for C stock etc. Do some research on what cars are competitive in each class today if you plan on racing for more than just fun.

Here's a random list i found which may not be relevant still: http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2011/stockc.html

It is seriously a blast. People that drive around on the street and think they are going fast have no idea of how hard you can actually push a stock car.

 

[Arickvan]

i like the s-10 idea

 

[crispins]

I have autocrossed on and off for years.

I really wanted to try rallycrossing as that looks like much more fun.

A cheap Saab would be a blast, I couldn't find a cheap one and now I work too much.

As others have said, the Miata is really the best bang for the buck all around great tool.

 

[2big bronco]

M iata
I s
A lways
T he
A nswer

 

[Hooptie]

I have autocrossed on and off for years.

I really wanted to try rallycrossing as that looks like much more fun.

A cheap Saab would be a blast, I couldn't find a cheap one and now I work too much.

As others have said, the Miata is really the best bang for the buck all around great tool.

Saab would be neat, but haven't seen one yet.

Our region's Mod Rear champ drives a Volvo. It's nothing special/crazy; an auto, welded rear, rally tires, and broom handle duct taped to the ebrake handle. He gets it done and has a blast, and fun as hell to watch as long as not on wrong side of his rooster tails.

 

[XtremeJ]

I'm an avid auto crosser, done this for 4 years now.

Started in a Miata -> 02 Cougar -> C5 Vette -> Fox Mustang
Co-driven my friends Civics, S2000s, Vettes and Mustangs... Usually make it to maybe 15 events a year.

You wanna know what? Its a racecar if you race it. Too many people get hung up in "I don't have the right car / mods / helmet / the balls to do it"
I see everything from built Vettes to stone stock automatic Corollas. You wanna know what everyone has in common? We all have fun!

Put up with the homo / hairdresser jokes and get a Miata. Or come out of the closet and embrace your true self. Nothing is going to teach you to drive better than a Miata.

For your first 3-4 events dont screw with the damn thing. You wanna go faster? Adjust the nut behind the wheel!
Hop in every car for a ride-along you can. I got a ride in a fully prepped '69 C3 and nearly creamed myself (6 figure build easy).
Have the good people ride along with you and tell you where you can go faster.
Some regions have novice schools - go to one.
Every single person I've met at an autocross are nice people. I messed up one time and put my Vette in a ditch. Once we pulled it out I had 5 guys swarm me and say "what do we need to do to get you home?"
Everyone is willing to try and help you go faster, especially for a novice.
Its CHEAP. like $40 for a full day of entertainment.
Most events are found on motorsportreg.com. Great site, easy as pie and free.
https://www.motorsportreg.com/calendar/

Even if you rallycross (no experience there), the damn Miata's are still nationally competitive! check the 2019 nationals results. top 3 cars in ANY RWD class are Miata's.
http://file:///C:/Users/oy816/Downloads/19_RXN_Final_Results.pdf

True Rally is way way tougher to get into. Full cage, logbooks, different licenses (they don't let novices start in turbo cars as an example) way higher event cost, harder vehicle prep. Do your research if you're serious about that.

All good info,

where are you located OP?

There are folks that spend their entire lives trying to win a SCCA National Championship, it can be just as difficult as winning a medal at Runoffs.

Check with your local SCCA, most regions have a catch all class for vehicles that do not fit into one of the 500 existing classes, in CO that is OSP - other street prepared. SCCA classing is a little like Oprah's show, you get a trophy, and you get a trophy, and you get a trophy. But at National level, winning can be just as hard as any other form of racing. There is not a better way to improve for your dollar as a driver than Auto-X

Do NOT spend any money on your car until you have been to at least 5 events. You will soon figure out which car is the car for the class, and which is the tire for that class. No more real race rubber unless you are in the modified or prepared classes - most all other classes require "street" tires with 200 treadwear rating, don't be fooled there is still a hot tire for each class depending on what car you are running. Supposedly done to save money, but we used to win more Hoosiers than we could use

You can run almost any car - only restrictions are typically for safety, so no SUV's, Fiat 500's etc. Spend the first two years improving as a driver, and begging/ swapping for rides before you commit $$$ to your car

Also check if there are BMW or Porsche groups locally. In Rocky Mountain CO area, the BMW autocross is much better value for money, more seat time for not much more entry. They accept any car, within reason. PCA guys can be snobby, and especially did not like a bone stock Mini Cooper S beating the high dollar P cars - I was asked not to return.

Next thing you will be checking out if the ProSolo tour comes your way, and then will head to Lincoln NE, for the Championships, which is like the Super Bowl for cone chasers.

 

[Kunker]

I'm in Canada, outside of Ottawa. I have the rule book, looked over what I can and can't bring, and I don't own anything that fits (2500 Silverado, large SUV and lifted CJ). Miata's are $8K and up in my area in a quick search, and at no point did I ask about what vehicle I should be looking at. It will be a cheap beater (i.e. similar budget to the helmet, apparently), and I have zero intent to spend money on it beyond a set of used snow tires for now.

I was mostly looking for other online resources, similar to Irate, where I could learn more/read up. I'm a newb to doing any legit driving at speed, just being a dumbass as a kid on the streets.

Thanks DWT, Fivepointfive , Hooptie and unstoppable778 for the advice (outside of the Miata crap) - it helps.

 

[OHV Wildcat]

Thanks a lot for starting this thread, OP. I had to look up events local to me, and realized I just missed one last month. It seems like the best way to try it would be with a rental econobox. Seriously. I wonder if they care if my helmet is a motocross helmet?

And I know that doesn't answer your question about resources. But to the point made earlier, anything appears to work. So I'd look up the next scheduled event, and commit to going. Show up in a rental car, talk to everyone there, and you'll have your resources all figured out. All that without falling down the "how much should I spend prepping" rabbit hole for something that you can't really evaluate yet.

Edit--and that's a nice Toyota! That really might end up just being the answer, but I'd be tempted to try it with someone else's stuff, first. Really not sure what could happen on an empty flat dirt track that a toyota pickup with 110hp couldn't survive, though.

 

[Kunker]

Thanks a lot for starting this thread, OP. I had to look up events local to me, and realized I just missed one last month. It seems like the best way to try it would be with a rental econobox. Seriously. I wonder if they care if my helmet is a motocross helmet?

And I know that doesn't answer your question about resources. But to the point made earlier, anything appears to work. So I'd look up the next scheduled event, and commit to going. Show up in a rental car, talk to everyone there, and you'll have your resources all figured out. All that without falling down the "how much should I spend prepping" rabbit hole for something that you can't really evaluate yet.

Edit--and that's a nice Toyota! That really might end up just being the answer, but I'd be tempted to try it with someone else's stuff, first. Really not sure what could happen on an empty flat dirt track that a toyota pickup with 110hp couldn't survive, though.

Look at the rulebook - autocross was a lot more lax than rallycross here, so your helmet may fit the bill. I was also considering renting a car for an event, but I would need to check with the organizer first. There is mention that if the owner of the car isn't driving, there needs to be a letter of permission. I don't know if they check ownership, but who knows?

And yeah, I was definitely overthinking it. At the very least, I'm committed to volunteering to get info and see if it's for me, although I'm still surfing Marketplace and Kijiji (our Craigslist).

 

[Hooptie]

Thanks a lot for starting this thread, OP. I had to look up events local to me, and realized I just missed one last month. It seems like the best way to try it would be with a rental econobox. Seriously. I wonder if they care if my helmet is a motocross helmet?

And I know that doesn't answer your question about resources. But to the point made earlier, anything appears to work. So I'd look up the next scheduled event, and commit to going. Show up in a rental car, talk to everyone there, and you'll have your resources all figured out. All that without falling down the "how much should I spend prepping" rabbit hole for something that you can't really evaluate yet.

Edit--and that's a nice Toyota! That really might end up just being the answer, but I'd be tempted to try it with someone else's stuff, first. Really not sure what could happen on an empty flat dirt track that a toyota pickup with 110hp couldn't survive, though.

Rentals work, just get the insurance We've had them show up, last one scored a hole in the bumper due to a rock. Depending on the course, the chance of damages changes, but fenderwell liners seem to be the low hanging fruit on most econoboxes. Over-inflate the tires to keep from debeading, and beat it like a dead horse. If you split the rental costs with a friend, you can both run the car and be even less out of pocket for the day.

SCCA and most organizers require a Snell 2010 (maybe 2015 as the 2020's just came out) or newer, these are a lil bit more than "DOT" or motox helmet, but can still be had for $100ish on amazon

Definitely great cheap fun, our 1st place Stock FWD was running a $100 Dodge Caliber.

 

[Kunker]

Rentals work, just get the insurance We've had them show up, last one scored a hole in the bumper due to a rock. Depending on the course, the chance of damages changes, but fenderwell liners seem to be the low hanging fruit on most econoboxes. Over-inflate the tires to keep from debeading, and beat it like a dead horse. If you split the rental costs with a friend, you can both run the car and be even less out of pocket for the day.

SCCA and most organizers require a Snell 2010 (maybe 2015 as the 2020's just came out) or newer, these are a lil bit more than "DOT" or motox helmet, but can still be had for $100ish on amazon

Which is why I suggested to check with the organizer - AutoCross here is a SNELL2005 (maybe 10 now), and M or SA. RallyCross is Snell2015-2020 SA only.

Definitely great cheap fun, our 1st place Stock FWD was running a $100 Dodge Caliber.

There are Calibers out there that still run?

 

[Fivepointfive]

I'm in Canada, outside of Ottawa. I have the rule book, looked over what I can and can't bring, and I don't own anything that fits (2500 Silverado, large SUV and lifted CJ). Miata's are $8K and up in my area in a quick search, and at no point did I ask about what vehicle I should be looking at. It will be a cheap beater (i.e. similar budget to the helmet, apparently), and I have zero intent to spend money on it beyond a set of used snow tires for now.

I was mostly looking for other online resources, similar to Irate, where I could learn more/read up. I'm a newb to doing any legit driving at speed, just being a dumbass as a kid on the streets.

Thanks DWT, Fivepointfive , Hooptie and unstoppable778 for the advice (outside of the Miata crap) - it helps.

Enjoy. Autocross is a hoot. I miss this car.

 

[Hooptie]

Mostly runs, it was abandoned at his shop so got it on a mechanic's lien and only thing he's had to do so far is rear struts. Think he's going to do more work and class up next year.