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Project twin chevy spinoff

Stuck

In Hell
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
424
Messages
1,818
Project twin, I have a question for you. I have early 2000s suburban. It has a Sony xav100 head unit. A kicker zx350.4 amp and MTX Thunder61 component speakers in the front and rear doors with what I assume are crossovers per each pair. It does have a flat four wire with RCAs both front and rear hooked into the amp from the head unit. The previous owner put everything in and it sounded great for the last few years.

I dont know shit about car audio. I think the front speakers are shot. They got wet one day and now they sound a bit off. The bass has subsided a lot Im not sure if had to much going through them. I had the extra bass setting turned up. Oops. There is no sub in the truck, so all the bass comes through what I assume are the mid range. The sound keeps cutting in and out leaving a hollow far away sound when I hit a bump. Then comes back full sound. I checked the wiring everything seems solid. Is there anything else that goes bad like that?

I want to troubleshoot what I have, replace as little as possible and add a sub without spending a fortune. I want good sound but Im not trying to impress anybody. As for the head unit it has a sub output on it. I guess I would need a seperate amp to power a sub. I also guess the cross over thing seperates the mid from the tweeter. The amp seems to have a lot of adjustment. Can I use the pots on top to keep out the bass if I add a sub so it doesnt kill the components again? Where do I start trouble shooting?
 
I’d test each speaker individually and verify they work before buying new ones. The problem may be in the passive crossover.

Another quick check is to swap front/rear RCAs on the input side of the 4-channel amp and see if the problem moves from front to rear or if it stays in the front. If the problem moves to the rear you’ve eliminated the RCAs, front amplifier channels, and front speakers as being the problem. If the problem stays in the front it could be the front amp channels or speakers.

As far as a sub, the Stereo Integrity SQL-12 and SQL-15 are no-BS great subs that are affordable. You would need a monoblock amp to power the sub.
 
ProjectTwin said:
I’d test each speaker individually and verify they work before buying new ones. The problem may be in the passive crossover.

Another quick check is to swap front/rear RCAs on the input side of the 4-channel amp and see if the problem moves from front to rear or if it stays in the front. If the problem moves to the rear you’ve eliminated the RCAs, front amplifier channels, and front speakers as being the problem. If the problem stays in the front it could be the front amp channels or speakers.

As far as a sub, the Stereo Integrity SQL-12 and SQL-15 are no-BS great subs that are affordable. You would need a monoblock amp to power the sub.
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Thanks! Ill try it tonite.
 
You could also replace the 4 channel amp with a 5 channel, that has a dedicated sub output.
 
HillbillyDeluxe said:
You could also replace the 4 channel amp with a 5 channel, that has a dedicated sub output.
Click to expand...
Is that a better route to go? I assume that would avoid running new power. The current amp has some heavy guage +/- wire going to it. Its under the 2nd row seats. I assume all Id have to run then is the speaker wire to the sub? Would a 5 channel need the dedicated sub output from the head unit or does it pull from the other outputs? Like I said I dont know much about car audio. I can handle the wiring but I dont know shit about the best setups.
 
ProjectTwin said:
I’d test each speaker individually and verify they work before buying new ones. The problem may be in the passive crossover.

Another quick check is to swap front/rear RCAs on the input side of the 4-channel amp and see if the problem moves from front to rear or if it stays in the front. If the problem moves to the rear you’ve eliminated the RCAs, front amplifier channels, and front speakers as being the problem. If the problem stays in the front it could be the front amp channels or speakers.

As far as a sub, the Stereo Integrity SQL-12 and SQL-15 are no-BS great subs that are affordable. You would need a monoblock amp to power the sub.
Click to expand...
Whats the best/easiest way to test them? The two wires from the amp to each corner runs to the crossover in each door and then two wires to the mid and two to the tweeter. The crossovers are screwed onto the metal under the door panel. I assume I need to take off the panel remove the speaker wire from the crossover and plug it into a output of some kind.

I used to have an old headset I could rig up but I dont anymore. Can I take a mini plug off of headphones add some alligator plugs and plug it into my phone or will that not have enough power or the right ohms to test it?
 
I use pink noise to audibly test speakers.

A multimeter will measure Re (DC equivalent resistance). Nominal impedance for components is usually 4 ohms (Re of 3.2 ohms or so measured on multimeter)
 
Stuck said:
Is that a better route to go? I assume that would avoid running new power. The current amp has some heavy guage +/- wire going to it. Its under the 2nd row seats. I assume all Id have to run then is the speaker wire to the sub? Would a 5 channel need the dedicated sub output from the head unit or does it pull from the other outputs? Like I said I dont know much about car audio. I can handle the wiring but I dont know shit about the best setups.
Click to expand...

Imo, for a basic "I want some bass" systems, I think they're great. You wont get huge power or sound, but it'll add in that missing low end sound you want.
 
Stuck said:
Is that a better route to go? I assume that would avoid running new power. The current amp has some heavy guage +/- wire going to it. Its under the 2nd row seats. I assume all Id have to run then is the speaker wire to the sub? Would a 5 channel need the dedicated sub output from the head unit or does it pull from the other outputs? Like I said I dont know much about car audio. I can handle the wiring but I dont know shit about the best setups.
Click to expand...

What kind of budget are you working with?
 
Stuck said:
Is that a better route to go? I assume that would avoid running new power. The current amp has some heavy guage +/- wire going to it. Its under the 2nd row seats. I assume all Id have to run then is the speaker wire to the sub? Would a 5 channel need the dedicated sub output from the head unit or does it pull from the other outputs? Like I said I dont know much about car audio. I can handle the wiring but I dont know shit about the best setups.
Click to expand...
Bring it up here to ks and I will help you set it up. Im no projectwin but I did installs as a college job and have put numerous "bigger" systems in. (again, no where near custom install like projectwin, but I can unbox an amp and wire it up)

edit- you can use a 5 channel with your current rca cables. You might have to add a "Y" connector at the amp.

Bring your cz and we can trade knowledge...... :smokin:
 
like these:

71sNQ6Da4sL._SL1200_.jpg
 
ProjectTwin said:
What kind of budget are you working with?
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As little as possible but I can drop a few benjis if necessary. Preferably under 5 bills. I know its not a lot, but im not an audiophile. I like my tunes on the road its just not that important. Although I do like Pantera's "Walk" served up loudly. I think that may be part of what killed the others. :grinpimp:
Ii doewnt need to be super loud, just some decent sound rolling down the road. Maybe my budget is unrealisticly low.
 
Not the amp. I turned the radio on and pulled the RCA plugs from the head unit one at a time. Only the left rear is working completely. The tweeter on the front right seems to be ok. The front left and rear right are almost nonexistent. So I un hooked all of the speaker wires from the amp and plugged the wires to the LR into each out put and got good sound out of the speakers. So all four channels seem to be good.

I did cut and strip the wires back because the ends were all shredded from the set screws on the amp. Im sure that didnt help the longevity of the whatever failed. When I figure out whats wrong and fix everything Ill tin all the ends to make them solid for a better connection.

So Im guessing the only way to test the speakers and crossovers is to open up the doors and plug the speakers into the good crossover. Or ohm them out. Same for the suspect crossovers plug the good speakers in and see if they work? Is there an easier way to test them?

Honestly I was hoping it was the amp. Easier to get to and I would have bought a 5 channel and added a sub.
 
xr-nut said:
Bring it up here to ks and I will help you set it up. Im no projectwin but I did installs as a college job and have put numerous "bigger" systems in. (again, no where near custom install like projectwin, but I can unbox an amp and wire it up)

edit- you can use a 5 channel with your current rca cables. You might have to add a "Y" connector at the amp.

Bring your cz and we can trade knowledge...... :smokin:
Click to expand...
KS is a bit far from coastal carolina for an inexpensive sound system especially for a 8.1 on biden gas, but thanks for the offer.
 
Run another set of RCA cables from the sub output and put in a distribution block to split the power to a sub amp. This will give you control over the sub from the head unit that a y-cable will not.

If you don't have crossovers available in the head unit you can set them at the amp. Should have low and high, I generally land at about 60-100hz and up for the speakers, 60-100hz and lower for the sub. That will completely depend on the individual speakers and how they blend together.


Look up a tutorial on how to set amp gain. Just cranking it until it's loud will causes excess distortion and is hard on stuff.


I made the mistake of stopping by a shop the other day and listening to some stuff. Audio frog impressed me (I like the old silk dome infinity stuff, this is similar but clearer without being harsh). The price tag about made me cry though.
 
Stuck said:
So Im guessing the only way to test the speakers and crossovers is to open up the doors and plug the speakers into the good crossover. Or ohm them out. Same for the suspect crossovers plug the good speakers in and see if they work? Is there an easier way to test them?

Honestly I was hoping it was the amp. Easier to get to and I would have bought a 5 channel and added a sub.
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At this point just by four good 2 way speakers and put them in the doors. kicker has a decent line that sound good and handle a little power. If you're tearing the door panel off anyhow to test them, put new in. the panels on that truck are not to take off, hard but why do it twice. A pair of Kicker dsc650 are 70 bucks.
 
xr-nut said:
At this point just by four good 2 way speakers and put them in the doors. kicker has a decent line that sound good and handle a little power. If you're tearing the door panel off anyhow to test them, put new in. the panels on that truck are not to take off, hard but why do it twice. A pair of Kicker dsc650 are 70 bucks.
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Do they sound as good as the component systems? Do I still need a seperate crossover or do they have that capability to seperate the freqs built in? If that will sound as good Ill go that route. The mtx thunder61s I have are $120 a pair on amazon for the mids tweets and crossovers. Heres my amp. Im not exactly sure what the potentiometers on top do but from the looks I assume I can eliminate the bass from the channels.
20220527_101315.jpg
 
Components definitely sound better, especially when amped, but you won't be able to tune the sound to the point that you will be able to hear the difference between them and a decent set of 2 way speakers.
 
Stuck said:
Do they sound as good as the component systems? Do I still need a seperate crossover or do they have that capability to seperate the freqs built in? If that will sound as good Ill go that route. The mtx thunder61s I have are $120 a pair on amazon for the mids tweets and crossovers. Heres my amp. Im not exactly sure what the potentiometers on top do but from the looks I assume I can eliminate the bass from the channels.
20220527_101315.jpg
Click to expand...
Looking at those settings it's no wonder there's no bass. It's all trimmed off. Looks like it was set to have a sub at one time.


Speakers are subjective. I hate kicker speakers. To me they sound harsh and tinny and they're not fun to listen too. By the time I mute the top end enough to take the harshness out at decent volume, they lose all the detail at lower volume. Of course, if you have them powered by a 14w head unit vs a 100w amp you'll hear something different.

I'm a big fan of stuff with silk domed tweeters, as they sound smoother too me.

You have tweeters in the dash stock. You can run either a good 2-way or component. I'd stick with component since you already have them and they'll sound way better in the dash.
 
Stuck said:
Do they sound as good as the component systems? Do I still need a seperate crossover or do they have that capability to seperate the freqs built in? If that will sound as good Ill go that route. The mtx thunder61s I have are $120 a pair on amazon for the mids tweets and crossovers. Heres my amp. Im not exactly sure what the potentiometers on top do but from the looks I assume I can eliminate the bass from the channels.
20220527_101315.jpg
Click to expand...
Maybe projectwin will chime in for the "technical" explanation of the turny things you speak of, but for me the x-over freq should be set to zero for your application. that knob is used to tune out upper frequencies for a sub. the bass boost knob is for teen agers trying to get the boom booms going in the trunk of the grand prix. And the gain knob is just a volume knob in the back.

I would run the kickers above before I would put another competent set in. But as mentioned above, that is subjective. I like brunettes, you like blondes, he likes redheads, etc. The kickers have the parts necessary to adjust the sounds the speakers play built in, so there is no separate cross over to mount or wire. And one less thing to get wet and go bad. You already have an amplified source wire in the speaker locations so it should take about ten minutes per door to get this back up and running. Once they're mounted crank your stereo up about half way with the music you will listen to when driving. Go back to the amp and slowly turn up the gain know until it sounds shitty to you, then back it off a little. Done.

Again, I'm sure twin is cringing with this advice, but for a simple easy to listen to stereo, thats all you need to do. If you wanted to add a little bass back there, grab a distribution block to split up your amp power wire and a rca Y. Mount them right beside the existing amp and get you a cheap single channel sub amp and little premade box with a 10'' in it. I bet you could get all that, including the door speakers, for 3-maybe 400 bucks. Less if you run generic sub amp and box.
 
As for the dash tweeters I beleive thats all been removed or at least disconnected. It actually had decent bass for not having a sub in it. I will add one but its going back in the stock sub location in the back driver side panel. It calls for a shallow mount 8". So for an 8" sub what size amp? 200w 400w? Also whats the deal with ohms? Im looking at subs and they either come 2ohm or 4ohm what do I need? Do the component sets come like that as well?
 
This was so much easier back in the day. I had my single din pioneer head unit 6.5s in the doors and pioneer pods on the rear shelf. My 66 mustang and my 72 charger were both rocking.
 
Stuck said:
As for the dash tweeters I beleive thats all been removed or at least disconnected. It actually had decent bass for not having a sub in it. I will add one but its going back in the stock sub location in the back driver side panel. It calls for a shallow mount 8". So for an 8" sub what size amp? 200w 400w? Also whats the deal with ohms? Im looking at subs and they either come 2ohm or 4ohm what do I need? Do the component sets come like that as well?
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The amp will be dependent on the sub and vice versa. You can nerd out over dial voice coil 2ohm sub and find a mono channel amp that is 1 ohm stable........ or you can just get on the web and find a simple single coil 4 ohm sub and mono amp that puts out a couple hundred watts and call it good.

Here's a cool link that will help you wire any combo of sub and amp.

Woofer Wiring Wizard | Rockford Fosgate ®

Woofer Wiring Wizard
rockfordfosgate.com rockfordfosgate.com
 
Stuck said:
As for the dash tweeters I beleive thats all been removed or at least disconnected. It actually had decent bass for not having a sub in it. I will add one but its going back in the stock sub location in the back driver side panel. It calls for a shallow mount 8". So for an 8" sub what size amp? 200w 400w? Also whats the deal with ohms? Im looking at subs and they either come 2ohm or 4ohm what do I need? Do the component sets come like that as well?
Click to expand...

Is the panel actually cut for a speaker? My 03 had a sub under the center console and the speaker grill in the back panel wasn't actually cut.

You'd have to find a stock panel and box. Then figure out which sub will fit by depth and volume.


If you're using a mono amp, just make sure it's 1 ohm stable and buy a 2 ohm sub.
Don't buy a multi channel and bridge the connections. It almost always will put it back to 4 ohm stable.
 
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