pennsylvaniaboy
make fullsizes great again
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Im impressed with the project's that you have and the level of quality and that your wife if still your wife. Most wimmins arent that cool
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Last Call Guest on these Group Buy Deal Items from Baja Designs
Build Project: Midnight Panic
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Red Skull
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- May 20, 2020
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- #902
They will probably be fit sale this time next year,Does this mean I can buy the At4k's?
Not really, actually,
Typical busy fall here, not long after my last post we went to idaho for our annual ITTC event, this year was pretty special since Allison co-drove the whole event, & we ended up winning 1st place overall!
The following few weeks are always dedicated to our local event, which went very smooth, & I actually ended up second place there!
As far as the truck goes, I’ve got two engine blocks & 2 pairs of heads getting setup for o-rings & copper head gaskets, also one crank shaft getting balanced, I’m really hoping to have all that back by the end of the month so I can get an engine put together.
I did piss away a few weeks on a silly old ford high boy project, but next days off I’m either building engines, or building axles,
Updates will be on their way again very shortly!
ridered3
Low Talent Wheelin
That's still an update, so thanks!
Skipped_Link
Red Skull
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- #906
Let's see if I can remember how to post a proper update, one with some tech,
I still haven't received any word from the machine shop on my engines, (typical engine machine shop stuff) So, I chose to move forward with the axle/diff project,
As soon as I knew what combination I was going to put together, I started ordering parts that I would need, The first call I made was to Clay at EMF, I know he has been crazy busy building ball joints for Dodge front axles, & has little time for anything else, so I just asked if there was a chance I could get another pile of rod ends, eight 1.25" large joints with 1" through holes, to be exact, He said that they could make something happen if I could give him a little time, A few months later I recieved a box loaded with the best joints money can buy, & they even match the rest of the joints on the truck.
Another order placed early on was a set of flanges, which weld to the housing/axle tubes, these flanges have a threaded bolt pattern that matches the Pettibone champagne mounting bolt pattern,
One of the more recent parts was the pinion yokes, being a commercial/semi truck differential, you can imagine the yoke is designed for a pretty obnoxious U-joint, with not real provisions to build off of for any kind of pinion brake,
There is an aftermarket company that builds & sells a pinion yoke that is actually a flat flange with a standard 2.5 ton Rockwell 4 bolt pattern, (which would be a good fit with what I already have at the SCS/T-case)
However, they were never in stock, I emailed the company & they replied that they would be in stock soon, but after a few months & ignored followup emails, I started looking at other options, after several hours of research the best I could come up with was a standard strap style yoke that fit a 1550 series u-joint, (same as what I'm running at the SCS) so I ordered a pair at $250 each!
I no more that had received these yokes & had test fit one,,,,,then guess what became available in stock?
Another $560 & I had what I wanted in the first place, (I could have doubled my money if anyone would have wanted to bet me this would happen)
There are a couple other steering components that have been ordered & are sitting on the shelf, but I'll get to those in more detail later when I start putting them to use,
The first real work to get done was taking some careful measurements so I knew where to cut the stock housings, of you look at the previously posted housing pic, you can see the axle tubes are different lengths, with the chunk offset centering the pinion, this results in different length axle shafts,
My goal is to have all the shafts the same length, then I can order 6 shafts & have 2 spares that fit any corner on the truck.
This part of the project was a bit more tricky that it might seem, the center of the carrier & side gears is not exactly centered in the 3rd member, & there is absolutely nothing symmetrical about the bolt pattern on this housing, add to that the fact I had to figure in the target overall housing width, (gotta fit in the trailer)
There were enough points to measure from, & I had a complete corner on hand to use for figuring complete assembly width, that I was fairly confident I knew where to cut,
Taking all those measurements, then basically working backwards from the outside in, I used the original brake mounting flanges to mark the axle tubes, those flanges are really about the only flat symmetrical piece on the whole housing,
I had planned on using a large horizontal band saw to cut the tubes, but setup looked like a bit of a nightmare, the 4" grinder & a zip disc worked real good for cutting the original panhard bar mount off, So I used the same method & just carefully followed my cut lines on the tube,
With the first housing cut I set a chunk in place & double checked that the same length axle shaft would in fact fit both sides. Then the second housing was cut to match, Making them both ready for mounting the flanges.
I still haven't received any word from the machine shop on my engines, (typical engine machine shop stuff) So, I chose to move forward with the axle/diff project,
As soon as I knew what combination I was going to put together, I started ordering parts that I would need, The first call I made was to Clay at EMF, I know he has been crazy busy building ball joints for Dodge front axles, & has little time for anything else, so I just asked if there was a chance I could get another pile of rod ends, eight 1.25" large joints with 1" through holes, to be exact, He said that they could make something happen if I could give him a little time, A few months later I recieved a box loaded with the best joints money can buy, & they even match the rest of the joints on the truck.
Another order placed early on was a set of flanges, which weld to the housing/axle tubes, these flanges have a threaded bolt pattern that matches the Pettibone champagne mounting bolt pattern,
One of the more recent parts was the pinion yokes, being a commercial/semi truck differential, you can imagine the yoke is designed for a pretty obnoxious U-joint, with not real provisions to build off of for any kind of pinion brake,
There is an aftermarket company that builds & sells a pinion yoke that is actually a flat flange with a standard 2.5 ton Rockwell 4 bolt pattern, (which would be a good fit with what I already have at the SCS/T-case)
However, they were never in stock, I emailed the company & they replied that they would be in stock soon, but after a few months & ignored followup emails, I started looking at other options, after several hours of research the best I could come up with was a standard strap style yoke that fit a 1550 series u-joint, (same as what I'm running at the SCS) so I ordered a pair at $250 each!
I no more that had received these yokes & had test fit one,,,,,then guess what became available in stock?
Another $560 & I had what I wanted in the first place, (I could have doubled my money if anyone would have wanted to bet me this would happen)
There are a couple other steering components that have been ordered & are sitting on the shelf, but I'll get to those in more detail later when I start putting them to use,
The first real work to get done was taking some careful measurements so I knew where to cut the stock housings, of you look at the previously posted housing pic, you can see the axle tubes are different lengths, with the chunk offset centering the pinion, this results in different length axle shafts,
My goal is to have all the shafts the same length, then I can order 6 shafts & have 2 spares that fit any corner on the truck.
This part of the project was a bit more tricky that it might seem, the center of the carrier & side gears is not exactly centered in the 3rd member, & there is absolutely nothing symmetrical about the bolt pattern on this housing, add to that the fact I had to figure in the target overall housing width, (gotta fit in the trailer)
There were enough points to measure from, & I had a complete corner on hand to use for figuring complete assembly width, that I was fairly confident I knew where to cut,
Taking all those measurements, then basically working backwards from the outside in, I used the original brake mounting flanges to mark the axle tubes, those flanges are really about the only flat symmetrical piece on the whole housing,
I had planned on using a large horizontal band saw to cut the tubes, but setup looked like a bit of a nightmare, the 4" grinder & a zip disc worked real good for cutting the original panhard bar mount off, So I used the same method & just carefully followed my cut lines on the tube,
With the first housing cut I set a chunk in place & double checked that the same length axle shaft would in fact fit both sides. Then the second housing was cut to match, Making them both ready for mounting the flanges.
Skipped_Link
Red Skull
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- May 20, 2020
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- Thread starter
- #907
In case anyone is wondering, I finished off an old Black & Decker,,,,,And burnt up a brand new Hyper tough 4 grinders doing this job.
The B&D owed me nothing after many years of abuse, & the HT cost under $20, I now have a brand new DeWalt & another $20 HT to replace them,
Back to the flanges, I really did not like the thought of just slapping them onto the end of the housings, even with the added trussing & gusseting they will see before completion, this is just an area that takes a lot of abuse, (I almost wish I had ordered the 1,5" thick flanges,)
Back in the shed I had an 8 ft stick of 3.5" .375 wall tubing, I thought if a guy pressed the flange onto about a foot of that tubing, welded it on real good, then slid that round tube into the square axle tubes of the housing with an internal bulkhead welding into the housing to support the inboard end, this would serve two purposes,
1) provide a substantial gain in axle tubes strength (avoid smiley axle tubes)
2) this would make installing inner shafts much easier sliding the shaft down a 2.75 ID tubem vs looking for a side gear spline in a 3.75x6"ish window.
This worked out perfectly in my head, & the material was on hand, then I realized the bore in the flange was 4"!!! (see flange pic in the previous post)
The narrow dimension of the rectangular housing is approximately 3.75", So buying 4" tubing was out, I thought maybe a bushing pressed onto just the end of the tubing would work, then just weld everything together,
After hunting around both mine & my dads place, I was beginning to realize anything around 4" material is pretty big.
Then I thought, "shoot I only need a 1/4 inch per side, I can just weld that on"
So I set up my rollers, the foot pedal switch on the welder, & got right to it.
This took a fair amount to time!
Lots of passes to get the amount of material I wanted on there,
Much like body work & Bondo, a lot of it was cut back off to get my finished diameter to a snug 4.006" (which gave me a .005 interference fit)
Here's the thress stages from welded up, machined, & then fitted to the flange,
While machining the welded end of the tube, I would place a flange in the powder coat oven set at 400* by the time the machine work was done, the flange would be between 350 & 375,
I could then set the flange on the table, centered over a spacer to set tube depth, then carefully drop the tube in the bore & let the pair match temps,
The B&D owed me nothing after many years of abuse, & the HT cost under $20, I now have a brand new DeWalt & another $20 HT to replace them,
Back to the flanges, I really did not like the thought of just slapping them onto the end of the housings, even with the added trussing & gusseting they will see before completion, this is just an area that takes a lot of abuse, (I almost wish I had ordered the 1,5" thick flanges,)
Back in the shed I had an 8 ft stick of 3.5" .375 wall tubing, I thought if a guy pressed the flange onto about a foot of that tubing, welded it on real good, then slid that round tube into the square axle tubes of the housing with an internal bulkhead welding into the housing to support the inboard end, this would serve two purposes,
1) provide a substantial gain in axle tubes strength (avoid smiley axle tubes)
2) this would make installing inner shafts much easier sliding the shaft down a 2.75 ID tubem vs looking for a side gear spline in a 3.75x6"ish window.
This worked out perfectly in my head, & the material was on hand, then I realized the bore in the flange was 4"!!! (see flange pic in the previous post)
The narrow dimension of the rectangular housing is approximately 3.75", So buying 4" tubing was out, I thought maybe a bushing pressed onto just the end of the tubing would work, then just weld everything together,
After hunting around both mine & my dads place, I was beginning to realize anything around 4" material is pretty big.
Then I thought, "shoot I only need a 1/4 inch per side, I can just weld that on"
So I set up my rollers, the foot pedal switch on the welder, & got right to it.
This took a fair amount to time!
Lots of passes to get the amount of material I wanted on there,
Much like body work & Bondo, a lot of it was cut back off to get my finished diameter to a snug 4.006" (which gave me a .005 interference fit)
Here's the thress stages from welded up, machined, & then fitted to the flange,
While machining the welded end of the tube, I would place a flange in the powder coat oven set at 400* by the time the machine work was done, the flange would be between 350 & 375,
I could then set the flange on the table, centered over a spacer to set tube depth, then carefully drop the tube in the bore & let the pair match temps,
gt1guy
Apparently a racist
Beautiful work as always.
Mounting the MIG gun rigid and running a foot switch to free up both hands is pure big brain thinking. The list of things that that would make into a simple task is endless.
Oh, everything looks very heavy.
Mounting the MIG gun rigid and running a foot switch to free up both hands is pure big brain thinking. The list of things that that would make into a simple task is endless.
Oh, everything looks very heavy.
ridered3
Low Talent Wheelin
Now that's the update we've all been waiting on! Thanks for taking the time to share!
Skipped_Link
Red Skull
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- #910
If you like that, wait for my next trick!
But yes,this setup makes things like this, & drive lines effortless, I've used the same rigging with the plasma cutter for cutting tube & pipe as well,
If a guy has a Fab table, he needs rollers IMO.
Once the flanges were in place & set them all up in the lathe & made sure they were square with the tube, (runout) I had to knock a couple around, they were all within .010 & it took some pretty good whacks with a 4 lb dead blow to get them within .003
The next step was welding them together,
I had this picture in my head that one continuous bead would look so good holding these flanges on, especially after everything is assembled & no one will see it, ever,,,
But I had to try, without a weld positioner the only way I could think of making this happen would be to use the rotary head/turn table for the Bridgeport,
Now normally I am super "anti welding near any machine tool" so of course the turn table was moved out to the weld table, then covered with a weld blanket to prevent any damage,
The same foot pedal was used on the welder leaving my hands free to rotate the part, the welder was set to about the max I would run .030 wire & I basically just watched while cranking one out,,,,,
The end results were plumb acceptable,
There was no tacks to make sure it didn't move, just set it up & give'r the onion. I did start/stop the weld at the same point on each part, in case that did pull, they would all pull the same.
After the first part cooled off I tossed it in the lathe & checked runout again,
Again, plumb acceptable.
Skipped_Link
Red Skull
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- #911
And the last portion of this weeks update. Alignment.
I needed a way to get these tubes & flanges properly aligned with the carrier/side gears, I had done this before on Ford 9" axles, but that was using borrowed equipment, & I didn't want to have to borrow it again, aspecially since the only thing I could really use is the bar itself, I knew I'd have to build all the pucks anyway.
Again combing dads shop, then my yard, I knew one of us had a strait bar long enough to do this job, Finally after combing through the junk, back in the corner of the yard I found what was left of the lift gate off the transport trailer project,
that thing had a pair of really long hydraulic cylinders, & hydraulic cylinders have realy straits shafts in them, After a couple hours of digging the columns out,getting the cylinders cut loose, & finally getting them disassembled, I had plenty of 1.25 chromed shafting, & even some material for building two of the needed pucks.
Back when I was a kid working in a machine shop, the owner would order chrome hydraulic cylinder rod material to build his line boring bars, that material is inherently strait. (one of the many things I retained from working a couple years at that job)
Just to prove that theory I cut off a 48" piece, & run it between the chuck & live center on the lathe, (of course it's going to look good running it between centers, right?) when I back the tail stock off, that's what really tells the story.
That should get me in the ball park.
Not only did I net 20 ft of alignment bar material, & 20 ft of 3"x.25 wall tube. The seal head, or "Gland" also only required .025 machined of the main OD to fit perfectly into the side of the carrier.
By replacing the OD sealing O-ring with a "thinner" one, it is actually held quite snug in the differential carrier, Wich Will be nice when sliding the alignment bar in & out while fitting.
The rest of the pucks I just had to build out of whatever material I had in the "drops box" All of them were bored to a loose 1.250" so they would slide on the bar with very little slop, but not be "sticky" the a pair were machined to fit the ID of the 3.5" tube at the "inboard" end (closest to the carrier) these pucks too were fitted with o-rings to help hold them in place,
Then the last pair fit both the ID of the 3.5" tube, & the 4" ID of the flange,
One set of pucks in their respective location.
And that's pretty much where I'm at currently, Maybe next days off I can get some parts tacked together,
I still have bit of prep to do to the housings where the flange welds on, I'm also considering drilling a couple holes in the square axle tubes, so the round tube can be plug welded from the outside. we'll see how that all pans out next week.
I needed a way to get these tubes & flanges properly aligned with the carrier/side gears, I had done this before on Ford 9" axles, but that was using borrowed equipment, & I didn't want to have to borrow it again, aspecially since the only thing I could really use is the bar itself, I knew I'd have to build all the pucks anyway.
Again combing dads shop, then my yard, I knew one of us had a strait bar long enough to do this job, Finally after combing through the junk, back in the corner of the yard I found what was left of the lift gate off the transport trailer project,
that thing had a pair of really long hydraulic cylinders, & hydraulic cylinders have realy straits shafts in them, After a couple hours of digging the columns out,getting the cylinders cut loose, & finally getting them disassembled, I had plenty of 1.25 chromed shafting, & even some material for building two of the needed pucks.Back when I was a kid working in a machine shop, the owner would order chrome hydraulic cylinder rod material to build his line boring bars, that material is inherently strait. (one of the many things I retained from working a couple years at that job)
Just to prove that theory I cut off a 48" piece, & run it between the chuck & live center on the lathe, (of course it's going to look good running it between centers, right?) when I back the tail stock off, that's what really tells the story.
That should get me in the ball park.
Not only did I net 20 ft of alignment bar material, & 20 ft of 3"x.25 wall tube. The seal head, or "Gland" also only required .025 machined of the main OD to fit perfectly into the side of the carrier.
By replacing the OD sealing O-ring with a "thinner" one, it is actually held quite snug in the differential carrier, Wich Will be nice when sliding the alignment bar in & out while fitting.
The rest of the pucks I just had to build out of whatever material I had in the "drops box" All of them were bored to a loose 1.250" so they would slide on the bar with very little slop, but not be "sticky" the a pair were machined to fit the ID of the 3.5" tube at the "inboard" end (closest to the carrier) these pucks too were fitted with o-rings to help hold them in place,
Then the last pair fit both the ID of the 3.5" tube, & the 4" ID of the flange,
One set of pucks in their respective location.
And that's pretty much where I'm at currently, Maybe next days off I can get some parts tacked together,
I still have bit of prep to do to the housings where the flange welds on, I'm also considering drilling a couple holes in the square axle tubes, so the round tube can be plug welded from the outside. we'll see how that all pans out next week.
Ranch Hand
Well-known member
Am not watching that video...
Penetrode Offroad
Red Skull
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- May 20, 2020
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- 956
No ****. Thats cool
That makes me twitch. With that much hanging out of the chuck, it doesn't take much to get the death whip going.
GLTHFJ60
Stupid is as stupid does
Same thought I had. Impressive video, but no chance I'd try that, lol.
Skipped_Link
Red Skull
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- Thread starter
- #920
If 4ft of this material whips at 400 RPM, it will do me no good as an alignment tool
That said, I’ve seen material become very destructive at high rpm, & I would never risk that in my own machine. Hence the reason I recorded the above video at a relatively low RPM.
Skipped_Link
Red Skull
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- #921
I got a couple productive days in this week,
Starting with cleaning up one housing, drilling for plug welds, & removing paint internally in preparation for the bulk heads, A good healthy weld prep was also ground on all sides of the square axle tubes where the flanges would be welded in place,
The next step was install a 3rd member with the alignment pucks in the carrier, & square everything up with the table, slide the bar in, then slide both tube/flange assemblies in place, I decided the first one will be the front axle, & this one will get 12* of caster built in, that way once in the truck I will be able to roll the pinion up 5* or so, & still keep roughly the same amount kicking the kick pins back for better handling,
Once satisfied, both flanges were tacket in place,
After confirming the flanges did not pull/move too much, the 3rd member was removed, the alignment bar reinstalled, & measurements taken for the bulkheads that will support the internal ends of the tubes,
These bulkheads were cut out of .385 plate,
After they were tacked in place, the bar & all pucks were removed, & the flanges were welded in place,
A little propane & housing rolling got the weld area preheated to a few hundred degrees before setting the Millermatic to "max" & pouring the .031 filler to it for a pretty gnarly single pass fillet,
Next was welding the internal bulkhead plates,
Last was the plug welds, they were drilled to 1/2" diameter, then countersunk with a tapered countersink tool to make it easier to burn in the round tube, inside the square tube, had I left the hole straight it would have been pretty easy to just plug up the hole without any real penetration at the internal material.
For some reason I didn't get many pics of the finish welding, You'll just have to trust that I decided they were satisfactory for now,
At this point I was able to pull a few measurements & determin a minimum inner axle length,
I am currently in talks with a couple places about having these built as soon as they can fit them in,
I did get one knuckle fit up, just so I could start pondering steering options,
It was at this point I received a call from the machine shop, All of my engine parts were machined & ready for pickup, So the following day I made the trip up to the Boise valley & brought a truck load of big block Ford goodness back home,
Starting with cleaning up one housing, drilling for plug welds, & removing paint internally in preparation for the bulk heads, A good healthy weld prep was also ground on all sides of the square axle tubes where the flanges would be welded in place,
The next step was install a 3rd member with the alignment pucks in the carrier, & square everything up with the table, slide the bar in, then slide both tube/flange assemblies in place, I decided the first one will be the front axle, & this one will get 12* of caster built in, that way once in the truck I will be able to roll the pinion up 5* or so, & still keep roughly the same amount kicking the kick pins back for better handling,
Once satisfied, both flanges were tacket in place,
After confirming the flanges did not pull/move too much, the 3rd member was removed, the alignment bar reinstalled, & measurements taken for the bulkheads that will support the internal ends of the tubes,
These bulkheads were cut out of .385 plate,
After they were tacked in place, the bar & all pucks were removed, & the flanges were welded in place,
A little propane & housing rolling got the weld area preheated to a few hundred degrees before setting the Millermatic to "max" & pouring the .031 filler to it for a pretty gnarly single pass fillet,
Next was welding the internal bulkhead plates,
Last was the plug welds, they were drilled to 1/2" diameter, then countersunk with a tapered countersink tool to make it easier to burn in the round tube, inside the square tube, had I left the hole straight it would have been pretty easy to just plug up the hole without any real penetration at the internal material.
For some reason I didn't get many pics of the finish welding, You'll just have to trust that I decided they were satisfactory for now,
At this point I was able to pull a few measurements & determin a minimum inner axle length,
I am currently in talks with a couple places about having these built as soon as they can fit them in,
I did get one knuckle fit up, just so I could start pondering steering options,
It was at this point I received a call from the machine shop, All of my engine parts were machined & ready for pickup, So the following day I made the trip up to the Boise valley & brought a truck load of big block Ford goodness back home,
Last edited:
Skipped_Link
Red Skull
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- #922
I'm pretty excited to not have to worry about head gaskets on these next engines.
I've got another rotation of work now before I decide what's next,
I know I've a couple days of prep work before I can start engine assembly, But I might get the second housing to the same point as the current one on the table before even worrying about engine stuff,
That said, I would really like to get the truck back to a drivable state soon!
I've got another rotation of work now before I decide what's next,
I know I've a couple days of prep work before I can start engine assembly, But I might get the second housing to the same point as the current one on the table before even worrying about engine stuff,
That said, I would really like to get the truck back to a drivable state soon!
Firstram
Well-known member
I use .030 wire for almost everything too. Makes it so much easier to take my time making ugly welds!
Are you switching between straight and tapered nozzles for access? I couldn’t really see the difference between them.
Are you switching between straight and tapered nozzles for access? I couldn’t really see the difference between them.
Skipped_Link
Red Skull
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- #925
I do not normally switch nozzles,
When I welded to flange to the round tube last week, I did smash the nozzle into a bit of a kidney bean shape, so I could get the gun angle where I wanted it since pretty much everything was in a fixture of sorts.
On bigger machines/mig guns I’ve seen lots of options, but never tried a side by side comparison.
You’re right, supper easy to get a cold puddle in that small area.
Penetrode Offroad
Red Skull
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Its cool seeing the heat transfer on the outer flange
Skipped_Link
Red Skull
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- #927
Only 4 days off this time around, so I tried to focus on completing the engine machine work that was my responsibility, the little things outside of the normal bore/fit balance type work that the engine machine shop typically performs,
Starting with the timing cover, Way back when I assembled the 547 that is currently in the truck, you may remember that the front motor plate is sandwiched between the timing cover & the block, this is not really a standard configuration, but I feel in the end it is stronger,
Since the location of the mounting tabs in the chassis are based on this setup, the same system will have to be used on the new engines,
To fit the motor plate directly to the front of the block .250" has to be milled off the back of the timing cover, this keeps things like the front main seal, & oil pan mounting bolt locations correct in relation to their respective parts,
But before I can do that, I had to decide on a timing cover,,,,, The one I used on the 547 was a custom one off billet piece that I had purchased off FB market place, getting another one exactly the same is probably not likely, & using a stock cover just isn't an option on this truck,
This whole deal turned into a bit of a dilemma for me, an internal conflict of sorts. See, in the past year the nearly perfect BBF billet timing cover has been developed & is available to just purchase! It was specifically developed for not only blown/alcohol but also monster/mega truck applications,
As you can see in the above pic from the ad, provisions for cam driven fuel pump, integrated blower belt tensioner mount, crank support, & crank driven steering pump provisions,
The only thing this part lacked was provisions for water/coolant. ( the manufacture recommends tapping the front freeze plug hole in each side of the block & pluming the coolant inlets there) which is perfectly fine, actually a really good idea, if I hadn't already hardblocked both of my engine blocks rendering the freeze plugs useless,
Now the conflicting part,,,,what kind of fabricator would I be if I just purchase an off the shelf billet aluminum timing cover that's nearly perfect for what I'm doing? Not trying to brag, but I'm 98% confident that in 4-5 days & no more that 300 different setups, I could build something similar, or at least good enough (sans the bling anodizing) , using the old Bridgeport & rotary table, Or, 3-4 days & 3 setups letting the CNC router to the majority of the work,
After probably a month of struggling with this internally, I decided that supporting a fellow Ford guy & purchasing a product he developed wasn't in any way a bad deal, so after talking back & forth, confirming I could make it work in my specific application, I placed the order & the next week I had it in hand,
The kit quality is really nice, & quite complete as far as hardware, fasteners, etc.
None the less, it did have to go in the Bridgeport to have that 1/4" cut off to account for my motor plate,
Before I got that far I did have to plug the dipstick hole that is provided in the cover,
In the above pic you can see that cutting .250 off the back of the cover would partially cut into this hole, By pressing a slug in place, followed by a little trimming, the dipstick hole is almost completely unnoticeable after the machinework is complete,
Even though I used a bit of loc-***e & about .001 interference fit while installing the slug, right after taking this pic I went ahead & installed a 1/16" roll pin just to make sure it stays in place,
Next up was to address the lack of water ports. This was actually a pretty easy task, since I had basically already done the same thing on the billet cover currently on the 547 in the truck.
As I get older I have less & less use for pipe thread, so these water ports were drilled & tapped for "Boss O-ring" style fittings, ORB to male AN adapters will make for a clean leak free install later on.
Since the Bridgeport was good an warmed up, I just continued with projects that needed milling,
Next up was the crankshaft, typically in a supercharged application the blower drive hub is double keyed, (two key ways 180* from each other) however, the snout on the crank shaft rarely has the second key way,
In the case of the 385 series Ford engine, the passenger car/truck crank snout has a 3/16 keyway just forward of the #1 main journal for the lower timing gear/sprocket, then 180* & out at the end of the snout, there is a 1/4" woodruff key for the harmonic balancer,
I've seen guys use blower drive hubs that are setup for 3/16 & 1/4", but my hub is 1/4"-1/4" long story short, the crank was setup, dialed in, & cut for two 1/4" keyways, One lining up with the original woodruff, & the second 180* lining up with the 3/16" timing keyway.
This was an extremely long process, the only cutter I had that could be used in this setup was a high speed steel woodruff cutter, & that crankshaft is pretty dang tough, (I've ruined one of these tools trying to do this exact same job)
Low surface speed (RPM) & very moderate feed rate got the job done though, nearly 6 hours after seeing the crank on the table, then cutting two keyways, but the tool/cutter still looks new. Fortunately the crankshaft for engine #2 is already cut for two full length keyways.
Next on the mill table was the camshafts for both engines, Somewhat like the double keyway on a supercharged engine, double pinning the camshaft is common practice with high performance roller cams,
Both of these camshafts are pretty mild, & considered "street rollers" so neither were double pinned from the manufacture, & to be honest, they probably don't need to be, but we're not taking any chances here,
I did not take any pics while doing this work, sometimes I just don't think about that stuff when it's 1 AM & I know I've got two hours of work I want to complete before going home.
But I do have a pic from back when I triple pinned the camshaft in the 547. The setup was basically the same, I just have a different mill, & 90* head now days.
The only real engine assembly I've done so far is the cylinder heads,
My first day off I put one pair together with its respective valves, seals springs, shims, retainers & locks, making note of what I used from my box of valve train parts that I try to keep a supply of, the next morning I reordered those parts, X2, with the hopes Summit had them in stock in Sparks & I'd have them in hand the next day, Lucky for me that was in fact the case, & I was able to assemble the second pair on my last day off.
It only takes about 15 minutes to assemble one head, but that's after anywhere from 40 minutes to an hour of measuring & shimming for the correct spring install height, you can see in the video I had already figured this out & had all the parts laid out for installation,
Just to be clear, I'm not an engine builder, I'm just assembling parts here, I have a good friend that is my "engine consultant", He tells me the specifics, or what I need to set things at, If I question his judgement we hash it out or he explains the reasoning before continuing,
For example installing these springs, right on the box they give an install height of 1.950", the brand new Edelbrock heads I took apart had their original springs listed as 1.950" in the paperwork,
I was told to set these up at 1.985" when I asked why he explained were pushing the limits on the amount of lift these particular springs can handle, "yes if you were running a cam with .600-.625 lift, we would go 1.950, but you're .647" on the smallest lobe on both your cams & we don't want to coil bind those springs"
Then he brings a spring tester over & has me compress one to 1.985" & says "see, your still over 200lbs on the seat, now compress it another .650"
As I'm wrestling with that, he tells me "600lbs would be good, but 500-550 over the nose will be fine"
While I'm trying to hold a spring partially compressed under the quill of the Bridgeport & measure it at the same time, the spring tester is showing a bit over 500lbs, while lighting a cigarette he points at the needle on the tester & says "see, your good, now get that **** put together"
Kind of a log read for no good information, but this side of a project can be pretty comedic some times.
Starting with the timing cover, Way back when I assembled the 547 that is currently in the truck, you may remember that the front motor plate is sandwiched between the timing cover & the block, this is not really a standard configuration, but I feel in the end it is stronger,
Since the location of the mounting tabs in the chassis are based on this setup, the same system will have to be used on the new engines,
To fit the motor plate directly to the front of the block .250" has to be milled off the back of the timing cover, this keeps things like the front main seal, & oil pan mounting bolt locations correct in relation to their respective parts,
But before I can do that, I had to decide on a timing cover,,,,, The one I used on the 547 was a custom one off billet piece that I had purchased off FB market place, getting another one exactly the same is probably not likely, & using a stock cover just isn't an option on this truck,
This whole deal turned into a bit of a dilemma for me, an internal conflict of sorts. See, in the past year the nearly perfect BBF billet timing cover has been developed & is available to just purchase! It was specifically developed for not only blown/alcohol but also monster/mega truck applications,
As you can see in the above pic from the ad, provisions for cam driven fuel pump, integrated blower belt tensioner mount, crank support, & crank driven steering pump provisions,
The only thing this part lacked was provisions for water/coolant. ( the manufacture recommends tapping the front freeze plug hole in each side of the block & pluming the coolant inlets there) which is perfectly fine, actually a really good idea, if I hadn't already hardblocked both of my engine blocks rendering the freeze plugs useless,
Now the conflicting part,,,,what kind of fabricator would I be if I just purchase an off the shelf billet aluminum timing cover that's nearly perfect for what I'm doing? Not trying to brag, but I'm 98% confident that in 4-5 days & no more that 300 different setups, I could build something similar, or at least good enough (sans the bling anodizing) , using the old Bridgeport & rotary table, Or, 3-4 days & 3 setups letting the CNC router to the majority of the work,
After probably a month of struggling with this internally, I decided that supporting a fellow Ford guy & purchasing a product he developed wasn't in any way a bad deal, so after talking back & forth, confirming I could make it work in my specific application, I placed the order & the next week I had it in hand,
The kit quality is really nice, & quite complete as far as hardware, fasteners, etc.
None the less, it did have to go in the Bridgeport to have that 1/4" cut off to account for my motor plate,
Before I got that far I did have to plug the dipstick hole that is provided in the cover,
In the above pic you can see that cutting .250 off the back of the cover would partially cut into this hole, By pressing a slug in place, followed by a little trimming, the dipstick hole is almost completely unnoticeable after the machinework is complete,
Even though I used a bit of loc-***e & about .001 interference fit while installing the slug, right after taking this pic I went ahead & installed a 1/16" roll pin just to make sure it stays in place,
Next up was to address the lack of water ports. This was actually a pretty easy task, since I had basically already done the same thing on the billet cover currently on the 547 in the truck.
As I get older I have less & less use for pipe thread, so these water ports were drilled & tapped for "Boss O-ring" style fittings, ORB to male AN adapters will make for a clean leak free install later on.
Since the Bridgeport was good an warmed up, I just continued with projects that needed milling,
Next up was the crankshaft, typically in a supercharged application the blower drive hub is double keyed, (two key ways 180* from each other) however, the snout on the crank shaft rarely has the second key way,
In the case of the 385 series Ford engine, the passenger car/truck crank snout has a 3/16 keyway just forward of the #1 main journal for the lower timing gear/sprocket, then 180* & out at the end of the snout, there is a 1/4" woodruff key for the harmonic balancer,
I've seen guys use blower drive hubs that are setup for 3/16 & 1/4", but my hub is 1/4"-1/4" long story short, the crank was setup, dialed in, & cut for two 1/4" keyways, One lining up with the original woodruff, & the second 180* lining up with the 3/16" timing keyway.
This was an extremely long process, the only cutter I had that could be used in this setup was a high speed steel woodruff cutter, & that crankshaft is pretty dang tough, (I've ruined one of these tools trying to do this exact same job)
Low surface speed (RPM) & very moderate feed rate got the job done though, nearly 6 hours after seeing the crank on the table, then cutting two keyways, but the tool/cutter still looks new. Fortunately the crankshaft for engine #2 is already cut for two full length keyways.
Next on the mill table was the camshafts for both engines, Somewhat like the double keyway on a supercharged engine, double pinning the camshaft is common practice with high performance roller cams,
Both of these camshafts are pretty mild, & considered "street rollers" so neither were double pinned from the manufacture, & to be honest, they probably don't need to be, but we're not taking any chances here,
I did not take any pics while doing this work, sometimes I just don't think about that stuff when it's 1 AM & I know I've got two hours of work I want to complete before going home.
But I do have a pic from back when I triple pinned the camshaft in the 547. The setup was basically the same, I just have a different mill, & 90* head now days.
The only real engine assembly I've done so far is the cylinder heads,
My first day off I put one pair together with its respective valves, seals springs, shims, retainers & locks, making note of what I used from my box of valve train parts that I try to keep a supply of, the next morning I reordered those parts, X2, with the hopes Summit had them in stock in Sparks & I'd have them in hand the next day, Lucky for me that was in fact the case, & I was able to assemble the second pair on my last day off.
It only takes about 15 minutes to assemble one head, but that's after anywhere from 40 minutes to an hour of measuring & shimming for the correct spring install height, you can see in the video I had already figured this out & had all the parts laid out for installation,
Just to be clear, I'm not an engine builder, I'm just assembling parts here, I have a good friend that is my "engine consultant", He tells me the specifics, or what I need to set things at, If I question his judgement we hash it out or he explains the reasoning before continuing,
For example installing these springs, right on the box they give an install height of 1.950", the brand new Edelbrock heads I took apart had their original springs listed as 1.950" in the paperwork,
I was told to set these up at 1.985" when I asked why he explained were pushing the limits on the amount of lift these particular springs can handle, "yes if you were running a cam with .600-.625 lift, we would go 1.950, but you're .647" on the smallest lobe on both your cams & we don't want to coil bind those springs"
Then he brings a spring tester over & has me compress one to 1.985" & says "see, your still over 200lbs on the seat, now compress it another .650"
As I'm wrestling with that, he tells me "600lbs would be good, but 500-550 over the nose will be fine"
While I'm trying to hold a spring partially compressed under the quill of the Bridgeport & measure it at the same time, the spring tester is showing a bit over 500lbs, while lighting a cigarette he points at the needle on the tester & says "see, your good, now get that **** put together"
Kind of a log read for no good information, but this side of a project can be pretty comedic some times.
Last edited:
WaterH
Well-known member
Even though I used a bit of loc-***e & about .001 interference fit while installing the slug, right after taking this pic I went ahead & installed a 1/16" roll pin just to make sure it stays in place,
Orientation of roll pin?
Firstram
Well-known member
Skipped_Link
Red Skull
- Joined
- May 20, 2020
- Messages
- 565
- Thread starter
- #930
Side note, & interesting bit of information,
If you look at the first pic of the timing cover, you can see "DT Machine" engraved around the fuel pump mount, "DT" as in David Tucker,
David Tucker built, owns & drives the "T-MAXXX" Monster truck, Currently the only competitive full independent suspension monster truck out there running, (that I know of)
He had a rough go with the truck early on, but the last couple years he's really been making it all come together, & it's pretty amazing to watch it work, It's pretty cool tha the truck is Ford powered as well!
He's building more & more parts for the MT industry all the time. If I was just starting this project, I would have definitely bought more parts from DT Machine.
Now, Back to the parts that I am building, sort of,
Last week I took a DXF file & a partial sheet of 1/2 steel plate to the water jet guy, this week he called & et me know my wheel centers cut out.
I concidered using the plasmacam table for these, but decided the the water jet would be better for the tooling used on the following steps.
the Pettibone hubs use a standard Budd style lug nut, typical of equipment & over the road trucks up until the 90's
The Budd style lug nuts are a tapered seat, & they are actually a conical tapered seat, I didn't have much luck finding the specific tool used to make this particular seat, but I did find a counter sink tool in McMaster Carr that is plenty close enough,
At about $200!
I didn't care for the thought of running that tool through 48 holes with a fairly hard HAZ around each one, paying for the centers to be cut on a water jet was money well spent.
Again running the mill at a fairly low RPM with lots of oil, all 4 centers are tapered & the tool is still like new.
To end the updates this week,
I had mentioned that I was talking to a couple companies about inner axle shafts, I ended up placing an order with SCS on Monday, they said since these were a custom length shaft it would most likely be after the new year before they got to them, which I fully expected, hence the reason I wanted to get the order placed ASAP.
I just received an E-mail yesterday from UPS saying that I have 3 packages coming from SCS gearbox, due next week!
I'm going to guess that is 3 boxes of axles, each box containing two shafts,
That's just crazy service these days.
If you look at the first pic of the timing cover, you can see "DT Machine" engraved around the fuel pump mount, "DT" as in David Tucker,
David Tucker built, owns & drives the "T-MAXXX" Monster truck, Currently the only competitive full independent suspension monster truck out there running, (that I know of)
He had a rough go with the truck early on, but the last couple years he's really been making it all come together, & it's pretty amazing to watch it work, It's pretty cool tha the truck is Ford powered as well!
He's building more & more parts for the MT industry all the time. If I was just starting this project, I would have definitely bought more parts from DT Machine.
Now, Back to the parts that I am building, sort of,
Last week I took a DXF file & a partial sheet of 1/2 steel plate to the water jet guy, this week he called & et me know my wheel centers cut out.
I concidered using the plasmacam table for these, but decided the the water jet would be better for the tooling used on the following steps.
the Pettibone hubs use a standard Budd style lug nut, typical of equipment & over the road trucks up until the 90's
The Budd style lug nuts are a tapered seat, & they are actually a conical tapered seat, I didn't have much luck finding the specific tool used to make this particular seat, but I did find a counter sink tool in McMaster Carr that is plenty close enough,
At about $200!
I didn't care for the thought of running that tool through 48 holes with a fairly hard HAZ around each one, paying for the centers to be cut on a water jet was money well spent.
Again running the mill at a fairly low RPM with lots of oil, all 4 centers are tapered & the tool is still like new.
To end the updates this week,
I had mentioned that I was talking to a couple companies about inner axle shafts, I ended up placing an order with SCS on Monday, they said since these were a custom length shaft it would most likely be after the new year before they got to them, which I fully expected, hence the reason I wanted to get the order placed ASAP.
I just received an E-mail yesterday from UPS saying that I have 3 packages coming from SCS gearbox, due next week!
I'm going to guess that is 3 boxes of axles, each box containing two shafts,That's just crazy service these days.
![[486]](https://data.irate4x4.com/avatars/s/0/94.jpg?1700178133){kind=avatar}
