Older van vs older 'large' SUV for towing, does chassis matter?

[Lil'John]

Short: just from a chassis standpoint, is van or 'large' SUV better for towing? Think 1ton van vs 3/4 ton Suburban and ~8k towing.

Longer: Calif fucks people with trucks on registration. To avoid that, I'm looking at 1ton vans and 3/4 ton SUVs.

Calif also has their smog checks... but a vehicle is smog test exempt if 97 or older with a diesel.

So with that thought, I'm eyeballing two vehicles currently: 97ish Ford E350 van with 7.2L diesel and 97ish 3/4ton Suburban with 6.5L diesel. I am on the fence on whether I want 4wd or not. I'm hoping to track something down by end of year.

I know the 6.5L is also known as the 6.5 slow. But smog test exempt does make putting a more robust drivetrain in a bit easier. From reading, a van and upgrading drivetrain are 'difficult' at best.

But as the title states, my concern is more with the chassis and driving them. I'm brand agnostic but the two I've listed are "the only" ones I've found with a diesel.

Can anyone comment on experiences driving and towing with either of them?

 

[total newb]

Both are smog exempt.

The ford 7.3 van blows the burb out of the water.

Not only are 6.5 slow, theyre a head popping pos.

Get the burb if you want something to 12v swap.

 

[Lil'John]

Both are smog exempt.

The ford 7.3 van blows the burb out of the water.

Not only are 6.5 slow, theyre a head popping pos.

Get the burb if you want something to 12v swap.

Yup. Both are smog test exempt.

I was more interested in how good/bad the chassis are for towing. How much more body sway does the van have over a suburban? How bad is the visibility? If I were lucky to get a 4wd van, is it badly top heavy?

The pulling power from the factory isn't something I'm hugely worried about... as you note, a swap will wake it up(ie 12v or Duramax) Thus I'd eyeball the 6.5L or even the 6.2L

Same thing with transmission. I can upgrade the trans either through swap or HD rebuild.

The purpose of this rig is towing only and maybe a backup vehicle. I'm looking at mostly 'short range' towing like maybe 100 miles one way max.

 

[total newb]

All the sd based 4x4 vans ive driven (4 or 5) have been massively over spring rated and beefier swap bars. While they have 4x4 they have no articulation for off road. No im not comparing them to a rubicon built flex veh. Im talking about just a regular old solid axle pickup.

The van has a e40d which are plenty decent
Burb has the 4l80, again, good trans.

Visabitly is based on config. But i think the best van window setup is worse than burbs in general.

3/4t burbs are the best your going to get out of the ifs generations. everything gm made at the time. The van is the same, best everything ford offered.

 

[Lil'John]

All the sd based 4x4 vans ive driven (4 or 5) have been massively over spring rated and beefier swap bars. While they have 4x4 they have no articulation for off road. No im not comparing them to a rubicon built flex veh. Im talking about just a regular old solid axle pickup.

The van has a e40d which are plenty decent
Burb has the 4l80, again, good trans.

Visabitly is based on config. But i think the best van window setup is worse than burbs in general.

3/4t burbs are the best your going to get out of the ifs generations. everything gm made at the time. The van is the same, best everything ford offered.

Good info. Glad to see the trans are reasonable and not time bombs

The only reason I'm lightly wanting 4wd is snow and 'odd off hill' dirt hill project pickup. I won't be beating the tow rig up on the Rubicon or Fordyce.

Another concern I have with the Suburban is my sample size of three 86 S10s having shit door electrics.

 

[total newb]

If youre not set on the 94 diesel presmog aspect i cant say enough how much i love my 04 8.1l burban 2500. Wish id have bought one 20years ago.

Modern 4l80, 10.5 14bff.
The only thing i dont like about it is they are all 246 tcases which i have a sever hatred for.

But my window motor are shit and youve got comps for everything

 

[Lil'John]

If youre not set on the 94 diesel presmog aspect i cant say enough how much i love my 04 8.1l burban 2500. Wish id have bought one 20years ago.

Modern 4l80, 10.5 14bff.
The only thing i dont like about it is they are all 246 tcases which i have a sever hatred for.

But my window motor are shit and youve got comps for everything

I'm not dead set on 97 and older... but entry cost of newer is a bit dissuading; ie registration cost will be much higher.

The 97 and older diesels add benefit of not having to burn $100 ever two years on a smog and then pray for a pass

I've heard great things about the 8.1.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'd definitely go newer gas over older diesel for the money. At the amount you drive it, fuel mileage shouldn't even be a consideration.

Smog sucks, but newer shit should be fine. Although where you live, I would have figured would be a smog exempt county?

V10 van or excursion would be sweet. So would the 8.1 burb, if you can find one.

Can comment on the vans, as I've hardly even driven one, much less owned one. But the burb size is sweet. You can seat 4 people very comfortably or 6 snuggly (if you have a 40/20/40 front) and still have room for a full mattress in the back. Van would probably be even better if planning to camp out of it.

 

[Lil'John]

I'd definitely go newer gas over older diesel for the money. At the amount you drive it, fuel mileage shouldn't even be a consideration.

I'm not overly concerned about fuel milage on the tow rig or my wheelers. As you note, not enough driving to give a damn over even with current price.

Large driver on selecting tow rig will be upfront price; this is because Calif reg is based upon price. If it wasn't recuring yearly cost of reg, I'd give less of a shit about initial price and track down something 'ideal'.

The diesel in a 97 and earlier gives me the option of stuffing a better drivetrain in the chassis.

Smog sucks, but newer shit should be fine. Although where you live, I would have figured would be a smog exempt county?

V10 van or excursion would be sweet. So would the 8.1 burb, if you can find one.

El Dorado isn't one of the 'special' ones As I noted though, it is wasting a bunch of time and throwing away $100 I'd rather not do.

I'm not against going newer.

Can comment on the vans, as I've hardly even driven one, much less owned one. But the burb size is sweet. You can seat 4 people very comfortably or 6 snuggly (if you have a 40/20/40 front) and still have room for a full mattress in the back. Van would probably be even better if planning to camp out of it.

The tow rig is only to shuffle project around; pick them up when buying, haul to exhaust, haul for 'major' work, etc. If it can fit two people, I'm all set. I'm an anti-social boring SOB

 

[SKULLYOTA]

icy roads aside, I would pick a van for it’s more multipurpose nature…better door config for hauling parts, tools, people, or being able to camp out of if you wanted. I’ve driven a lot of long wheelbase full-size dodge gasser vans and they seem damn handy.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'm not overly concerned about fuel milage on the tow rig or my wheelers. As you note, not enough driving to give a damn over even with current price.

Large driver on selecting tow rig will be upfront price; this is because Calif reg is based upon price. If it wasn't recuring yearly cost of reg, I'd give less of a shit about initial price and track down something 'ideal'.

The diesel in a 97 and earlier gives me the option of stuffing a better drivetrain in the chassis.

But why would you ever bother with a swap for what your intended purpose is?

El Dorado isn't one of the 'special' ones As I noted though, it is wasting a bunch of time and throwing away $100 I'd rather not do.

I'm not against going newer.

The tow rig is only to shuffle project around; pick them up when buying, haul to exhaust, haul for 'major' work, etc. If it can fit two people, I'm all set. I'm an anti-social boring SOB

For what you're describing, id just find a cheap beater. The smog sucks, but it's a fuck less hassle than stuffing a 12v into a 90s suburban that only gets driven once a month.

 

[Lil'John]

But why would you ever bother with a swap for what your intended purpose is?




For what you're describing, id just find a cheap beater. The smog sucks, but it's a fuck less hassle than stuffing a 12v into a 90s suburban that only gets driven once a month.

For the same reason I'm not using my s10 as a 'tow rig' any more. It could get the job done but 4.3L of squirrel power made it a lot of no fun. Add in super short wheel base and a short trailer that made for bad tongue weight, anything over about 55mph was a bit of a pucker.

For a swap, nothing says I'd choose a 12v... there are easier and more economic choices than a $5k 12v(those pop up in FBM too often ) I haven't looked but I wouldn't be shocked if a Duramax is borderline bolt in.

As to the topic of swaps, I tend to pick based upon interesting at the time. Thus I've got a LS 6.0L FJ55 and a Cady 472 FJ55. The 6.0L wasn't cheapest at the time(2004 engine bought in 2008) by a long shot and buying a close to 50 year old Cady isn't high on people's list

 

[welndmn]

The Chassis of a Ford E230/350 van is a awesome little tow machine.
They do suffer stock, most rear axles were semi float and they have a small ish 26 gallon tank stock.

 

[Thatg9659]

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[u2slow]

The Chassis of a Ford E230/350 van is a awesome little tow machine.
They do suffer stock, most rear axles were semi float and they have a small ish 26 gallon tank stock.

Depends.

The diesel should have a fullfloat no matter what. Mine had a 40gal rear tank.

I considered making mine into a 4x4 camper-mobile, but the 7.3psd was tired, and made more fiscal sense at the time to just sell it off.

 

[Lil'John]

The Chassis of a Ford E230/350 van is a awesome little tow machine.
They do suffer stock, most rear axles were semi float and they have a small ish 26 gallon tank stock.

Depends.

The diesel should have a fullfloat no matter what. Mine had a 40gal rear tank.

I considered making mine into a 4x4 camper-mobile, but the 7.3psd was tired, and made more fiscal sense at the time to just sell it off.

The e350 vans I'm used to were all full float d60(ie smooth bottom) OTOH, I was buying them for swaps Three for three so far.

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Oddly, I was considering a moving van type deal and selling the container to flat bed it. 'Great' visibility achieved

 

[Jeffh555]

Only skimmed this, but I have a 2000 F350 Extended Body Wagon (all the windows and the big booty) 7.3L 4x4 on 37s with the Ujoint Offroad 4x4 kit.

I tow my 1 ton JK on an open trailer.

It's awesome for what I use it for, mostly towing from Santa Cruz to Rubicon, Fordyce, JV and Sand Hollow, about 1 trip each most years.

It has 340k on it, I can't say it's been dead reliable, but I've had it for over 10 years. Recently I had an injector stick. A couple years ago I broke down on the way to Rubicon (split the tank on the 20 year old radiator, Napa in Placerville had one) and on the way to Fordyce (ICP wire broke, but I didn't find it until I had already slept on the side of 80).

It works surprisingly well offroad. I'd say just as well if not better than any other tow rig on similar tires. Not sure if the rear axle has a LSD in it, I bought the axles already geared to 4.56.

One thing to watch out for. A lot of vans are registered as commercial vehicles and pay weight fees. Mine is even though it's a factory window van. I think I can "convert" it to an RV in the DMV's eyes, but I haven't gone down that route yet.

 

[Lil'John]

One thing to watch out for. A lot of vans are registered as commercial vehicles and pay weight fees. Mine is even though it's a factory window van. I think I can "convert" it to an RV in the DMV's eyes, but I haven't gone down that route yet.

Interesting. I did not know they did the commercial vehicle on vans game I'll have to take a bit more of a look into that.

 

[Jeffh555]

I was more interested in how good/bad the chassis are for towing. How much more body sway does the van have over a suburban? How bad is the visibility? If I were lucky to get a 4wd van, is it badly top heavy?

4x4 vans are all conversions. Most from the 90s are questionable at best. It's probably not going to be fair to compare one 4x4 van to another, as they were probably built very differently, and then fucked with multiple times in the last 25 years.

Mine was 2wd for the first 5 years I owned it. I think it drives/tows better after the conversion, but that's probably because everything is new and fresh.

 

[Enormiss]

I had a 6.5l Chevy 3500 van, think it was 2000. Everything but the motor worked well pulling a toyhauler.
That motor was a turd and why I got rid of it. You will always have a string of traffic behind you towing.
Not sure if 97 / 2000 are same generations... one thing noted when I was looking is the ford's have much greater distance hitch to rear axle than the chevys (extended/long wheelbases)

Now have a 02 7.3l excursion. People who say the 7.3 is slow haven't driven a 6.5 LoL
380,000 miles and it'll still pull the windsail camper down the highway as fast as my balls/right foot allow.
I would give the nod to the vans brakes & suspension, but its not by much... I'd assume a burb is similar

 

[YotaAtieToo]

For the same reason I'm not using my s10 as a 'tow rig' any more. It could get the job done but 4.3L of squirrel power made it a lot of no fun. Add in super short wheel base and a short trailer that made for bad tongue weight, anything over about 55mph was a bit of a pucker.

Anything mentioned will tow better than a 4.3 s10

For a swap, nothing says I'd choose a 12v... there are easier and more economic choices than a $5k 12v(those pop up in FBM too often ) I haven't looked but I wouldn't be shocked if a Duramax is borderline bolt in.

You said this was for hauling projects around, how would it make any sense to turn it into a project? Even a 5.4 V8 would be tolerable for a once a month trip.

Duramax won't bolt in and isn't any cheaper than a 12v

As to the topic of swaps, I tend to pick based upon interesting at the time. Thus I've got a LS 6.0L FJ55 and a Cady 472 FJ55. The 6.0L wasn't cheapest at the time(2004 engine bought in 2008) by a long shot and buying a close to 50 year old Cady isn't high on people's list

Save the swaps for other rigs, trust me

 

[arse_sidewards]

The e350 vans I'm used to were all full float d60(ie smooth bottom) OTOH, I was buying them for swaps Three for three so far.

Not smooth bottom but yes, FFD60

Oddly, I was considering a moving van type deal and selling the container to flat bed it. 'Great' visibility achieved

Do it.

 

[Jeffh555]

Interesting. I did not know they did the commercial vehicle on vans game I'll have to take a bit more of a look into that.

Here's something to look for when you're on the road or shopping for vans.

Commercial vehicles have the following license plate format:
1A00001 (or 10000A1 starting in 2024)

Passenger vehicles since the 80's are:
1AAA001

This obviously excludes personalized plates.

 

[ANGRYBLACK]

Never had a 7.3 E350. My E150 Towed pretty well for a heavy slow conversion van. Best thing for the ford vans are the later model extended mirrors. That takes care of the enormous blind spot. Manual mirrors should be less than $100. The Chassis is really good. The rear on the E350 can either be drum or Disc. Disc will be the super 60, 32 spline smooth bottom axle. Towing pads and rotors on that axle and its good to go.

One thing to note is the Ford 1 ton and 3/4 vans use 3" wide leafs. Be mindful of that if you plan on futzing with them. Working on them is a nightmare, especially on the side of the road. And there is less passenger leg room than a small car. As much as i Love Vans the Excursion makes more sense unless the van has a high top and a conversion . Otherwise they are just baby prison busses.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Fwiw the disc setup on my E350 D60U looks identical the 99-04 sterlings

 

[welndmn]

Depends.

The diesel should have a fullfloat no matter what. Mine had a 40gal rear tank.

I considered making mine into a 4x4 camper-mobile, but the 7.3psd was tired, and made more fiscal sense at the time to just sell it off.

That's why I said 'Most" You could get the option for the full float rear end, just like the option for the extended range fuel tank, BUT something like 90% of the vans did not. Well, we are talking modern vans here, 2002+

 

[u2slow]

There is the SRW Dana 70 in there on some of the mini-buses. Mine was '97 and drum.

I still have the disc version diff (01-02?) i was going swap into it. That disc setup also appears indentical to 01-02 dodge.

 

[Jeffh555]

Never had a 7.3 E350. My E150 Towed pretty well for a heavy slow conversion van. Best thing for the ford vans are the later model extended mirrors. That takes care of the enormous blind spot. Manual mirrors should be less than $100. The Chassis is really good. The rear on the E350 can either be drum or Disc. Disc will be the super 60, 32 spline smooth bottom axle. Towing pads and rotors on that axle and its good to go.

Good point. I had a E350 5.4L former electrician van before my 7.3L van. It was pretty much as light as could be. It was cheap and got the job done. It doesn't solve the OP's desire to get around smog checks.

My wife bought me the extended power mirrors for my van like 3 years ago, still sitting in boxes in my garage. Thanks for the motivation to install them.

 

[ANGRYBLACK]

Good point. I had a E350 5.4L former electrician van before my 7.3L van. It was pretty much as light as could be. It was cheap and got the job done. It doesn't solve the OP's desire to get around smog checks.

My wife bought me the extended power mirrors for my van like 3 years ago, still sitting in boxes in my garage. Thanks for the motivation to install them.

As soon as you get them on. Drive with them in and out to see the difference.

 

[Lil'John]

Anything mentioned will tow better than a 4.3 s10

My 02 tacoma doesn't... not even same ball park ;)

You said this was for hauling projects around, how would it make any sense to turn it into a project? Even a 5.4 V8 would be tolerable for a once a month trip.

Duramax won't bolt in and isn't any cheaper than a 12v

If it is too 'slow', a missed 'month' of projects would be acceptable. I mentioned Duramax... but 6.5L to 7.4L or 8.1L would be marked improvement and be bolt in 'weekend' work.

Here's something to look for when you're on the road or shopping for vans.

Commercial vehicles have the following license plate format:
1A00001 (or 10000A1 starting in 2024)

Passenger vehicles since the 80's are:
1AAA001

This obviously excludes personalized plates.

My curiosity is how I could change it from commercial to passenger... not how to identify them :) Or even more so, if I'm buying out of state, how do I ensure it gets registered as a passenger. My quick search implies that passenger has more than one row of seats(ie station wagon).