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Old school tow rigs

rattle_snake said:
Not helpful, but BBF & 6R80
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BADASS, was it a pain to get the 6r80 working with an older motor?
 
If you adjust your expectations to 1970’s performance….. it will get the job done. If you have ever towed with newer trucks…. It sucks. I use the old ford on occasion just to increase fuel consumption and adventure. Ford is a 390, 435, 4.10’s. It does ok, unless you have to downshift going up a hill, then you are going 45 mph till you hit the top and can upshift again. Buzzes along pretty good at 70mph on flat ground though.

The Cherokee totally sucked with that trailer… but looked cool
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TIMMAY! said:
If you adjust your expectations to 1970’s performance….. it will get the job done. If you have ever towed with newer trucks…. It sucks. I use the old ford on occasion just to increase fuel consumption and adventure. Ford is a 390, 435, 4.10’s. It does ok, unless you have to downshift going up a hill, then you are going 45 mph till you hit the top and can upshift again. Buzzes along pretty good at 70mph on flat ground though.

The Cherokee totally sucked with that trailer… but looked cool
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That is the best looking camper combo :smokin: 🤤
 
I’ve started towing with my 1985 f350 Mason dump. Bought it from a friend for 500. Found a 1970s dove head 460 and rebuilt it. Replaced almost everything on the truck. Still has little issues here and there but for the money invested I’d say it does everything you can ask for. Firewood, gravel and hauls my Dakota a couple hundred miles a few times a year. Gets 5mpg towing! With a 19 gallon tank it passes 0 gas stations. Going to try some stuff to work on better mpg’s.
 

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Thornbird1 said:
I’ve started towing with my 1985 f350 Mason dump. Bought it from a friend for 500. Found a 1970s dove head 460 and rebuilt it. Replaced almost everything on the truck. Still has little issues here and there but for the money invested I’d say it does everything you can ask for. Firewood, gravel and hauls my Dakota a couple hundred miles a few times a year. Gets 5mpg towing! With a 19 gallon tank it passes 0 gas stations. Going to try some stuff to work on better mpg’s.
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ZF S5-42 gear ratios - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Clutch, Transmission, Differential, Axle & Transfer Case - ZF S5-42 gear ratios - What gasoline engines were the close ratio ZF's used with? I'm thinking with a 4.9L, a close ratio would work better. Anyone have any insight on this? Thanks!
www.ford-trucks.com

attached is ZF gear ratio chart

ZF5 -42
ZF5-47
ZF5-47M

are all wide ratio gas bellhousing 5.7:1 first gear to give you a hand loaded and 0.76 for Overdrive. Have you got a 4.3 rear axle ratio? it'd make a big difference, assuming you have either a 3spd or a 4speed with low 1st and no O/D currently
 

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Thornbird1 said:
I’ve started towing with my 1985 f350 Mason dump. Bought it from a friend for 500. Found a 1970s dove head 460 and rebuilt it. Replaced almost everything on the truck. Still has little issues here and there but for the money invested I’d say it does everything you can ask for. Firewood, gravel and hauls my Dakota a couple hundred miles a few times a year. Gets 5mpg towing! With a 19 gallon tank it passes 0 gas stations. Going to try some stuff to work on better mpg’s.
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A 5 gallon Jerry can increases your range 25%. If you can fit a bronco fuel tank back there in between all the dump bed stuff your range would almost double.
 
Provience said:

ZF S5-42 gear ratios - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Clutch, Transmission, Differential, Axle & Transfer Case - ZF S5-42 gear ratios - What gasoline engines were the close ratio ZF's used with? I'm thinking with a 4.9L, a close ratio would work better. Anyone have any insight on this? Thanks!
www.ford-trucks.com

attached is ZF gear ratio chart

ZF5 -42
ZF5-47
ZF5-47M

are all wide ratio gas bellhousing 5.7:1 first gear to give you a hand loaded and 0.76 for Overdrive. Have you got a 4.3 rear axle ratio? it'd make a big difference, assuming you have either a 3spd or a 4speed with low 1st and no O/D currently
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It has a t-19, so no overdrive. A zf would be a good swap I just don’t know if I’m willing to go through the work and expense. I don’t know what gears it has I’m guessing 3.73ish.
 
Gbkeith said:
A 5 gallon Jerry can increases your range 25%. If you can fit a bronco fuel tank back there in between all the dump bed stuff your range would almost double.
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The jerry can is mandatory lol. Yea I was looking at the behind axle 38 gallon tank.
 
JesseA said:
That’s awesome:smokin:

What made the chrokee suck to tow with ?
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Short wheelbase is my guess, the big tires don’t help, just didn’t handle the trailer well or run down the road in a manner that made you confident that you made the right tow rig decision.
 
TIMMAY! said:
Old old school. Truck is a 6.0-4l65 with the original 4.88-5.13 or so gears so it actually pulls great…. And is uncomfortable,… and sketchy…. But looks cool
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That fantastic! Can you show us any pictures of the engine bay? I've contemplated an ls swap into my 1951 6400 Chevy and it would be cool to see how yours fits
 
472man said:
That fantastic! Can you show us any pictures of the engine bay? I've contemplated an ls swap into my 1951 6400 Chevy and it would be cool to see how yours fits
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I don't have any right now, if it wasn't a hassle to drag it out of garage I'd take some. But it does fit without cutting floor, firewall etc. You do have to add power steering to get rid of the original column to make room. There was actually a kit for that. Modified the passenger side manifold to get it to fit. Otherwise it fit pretty well
 
TIMMAY! said:
Old old school. Truck is a 6.0-4l65 with the original 4.88-5.13 or so gears so it actually pulls great…. And is uncomfortable,… and sketchy…. But looks cool
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Uncomfortable and sketchy in what ways?
 
06h3 said:
BADASS, was it a pain to get the 6r80 working with an older motor?
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well, it went about like most jobs. Trans that was never meant to match in a chassis that didn't come with either. Trans cannot be removed w/o engine now is only downside.

I installed on tight side of torque convert gap, and it ate the front seal and pump bushing. Worked with adapter manufacturer to solve spacing, repaired and back on the road. Love the 4.17 1st gear.
 
rattle_snake said:
well, it went about like most jobs. Trans that was never meant to match in a chassis that didn't come with either. Trans cannot be removed w/o engine now is only downside.

I installed on tight side of torque convert gap, and it ate the front seal and pump bushing. Worked with adapter manufacturer to solve spacing, repaired and back on the road. Love the 4.17 1st gear.
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Silly question, what gap did you go with? I'm figuring close but under 3/8" for my goal
 
JesseA said:
Uncomfortable and sketchy in what ways?
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In being a 1949 1 ton truck with 3x as much power than it originally came with and no seat belt kind of ways.

It’s hot in the summer, cold in the winter, rides like a Cadillac…..that has 4 flat tires….

I added disk brakes front and rear, but there was no easy way to convert the 1 ton front wheel bearings to a tapered bearing, this one still has ball bearings which Won’t care for higher speeds that the truck will now reach effortlessly. So that’s always in the back of my mind.
 
I used a 95 F350 with a 351/C6/BW? For years. It was a great cheap shop truck.
 
Thornbird1 said:
It has a t-19, so no overdrive. A zf would be a good swap I just don’t know if I’m willing to go through the work and expense. I don’t know what gears it has I’m guessing 3.73ish.
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I swapped the T19 in my ‘86 F250 for a ZFS542 out of an ‘89. Uses same slave cylinder as the T19, and if you get the trans crossmember from the ZF truck, it literally bolts in, don’t even need to alter the drive shafts.

I used the transmission, trans crossmember, and flywheel (different input shaft spline diameter from my ‘86) from the ‘87, along with a new clutch for the ‘87, and bolted in in with my brother in an afternoon.

If you don’t get the ZF crossmember, you end up sliding the T19 crossmember back a couple inches, and drilling a couple holes.

It’s really pretty straight forward.
 
Crankylove said:
I swapped the T19 in my ‘86 F250 for a ZFS542 out of an ‘89. Uses same slave cylinder as the T19, and if you get the trans crossmember from the ZF truck, it literally bolts in, don’t even need to alter the drive shafts.

I used the transmission, trans crossmember, and flywheel (different input shaft spline diameter from my ‘86) from the ‘87, along with a new clutch for the ‘87, and bolted in in with my brother in an afternoon.

If you don’t get the ZF crossmember, you end up sliding the T19 crossmember back a couple inches, and drilling a couple holes.

It’s really pretty straight forward.
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This is good to know, thanks
 
TIMMAY! said:
In being a 1949 1 ton truck with 3x as much power than it originally came with and no seat belt kind of ways.

It’s hot in the summer, cold in the winter, rides like a Cadillac…..that has 4 flat tires….

I added disk brakes front and rear, but there was no easy way to convert the 1 ton front wheel bearings to a tapered bearing, this one still has ball bearings which Won’t care for higher speeds that the truck will now reach effortlessly. So that’s always in the back of my mind.
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the no seat belt and no heat makes sense for discomfort. Whatever I end up with will have heat if none was originally installed.

What’s wrong with the ball bearings as opposed to the tapered roller bearings installed nowadays? More wander and more difficult to set preload?
 
JesseA said:
the no seat belt and no heat makes sense for discomfort. Whatever I end up with will have heat if none was originally installed.

What’s wrong with the ball bearings as opposed to the tapered roller bearings installed nowadays? More wander and more difficult to set preload?
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Way less contact for the bearing, they can't hold as well and don't take the heat as well, need more regular serivce
 
06h3 said:
It isnt a small block and it isnt a 3 speed but for what we did I think it fits the bill of old school tow rigs.

My buddy bought this truck in 2017 for $3500 and it had just under 100k miles on it. 454/4L80E/4.10s (I think)/2wd.

We used it to haul my H3 to Ultimate Adventure 2018 from Southern California to Pennsylvania and then back to So cal. It weighed in at 17,000lbs gross weight. We were told by many that it flat out wouldn't work, we wouldn't have enough TQ to get over the passes in Colorado and we would get 5 mpg if it did work. From So cal to PA we got 8.2mpg, we went the northern route through CO. I dont remember what he got on the way back but he went the southern route through Tennessee to see family, then through TX, NM and AZ. I wasnt there on the way back, I had to fly out for a wedding.

For $3500 there couldn't have been a cheaper way to do a cross country road trip hauling a rig safely and effectively. The trans got warm on the worst grades, but it was still running a stock trans cooler. After driving crew cab trucks that are much heavier, I think the added weight and wheelbase of the bigger trucks handle this exact load better but it wasn't unsafe or deadly. Again, I am nitpicking and it did the job safely and nicely. I could see the nitpicking being more legitimate if it was a brand new $50k truck but for $3500 it was a score and worked awesome.


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This goes to show just how out of touch people are that they thought that a FI big block with 4.10s and 2wd sized tires wouldn’t be able to pull that load across the country.
 
Provience said:
Way less contact for the bearing, they can't hold as well and don't take the heat as well, need more regular service
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Thankfully it's an old solid axle drop axle so he should be able to easily in some other solid drop axle that's a step up.
 
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