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reptillikus

reptillikus

ate lug
Joined
May 26, 2020
Member Number
1444
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844
Loc
Reading PA
I know weve got a thread on the SD D60s, but i dont have one of those, i have a modified 79 Ford D60 under my truck. Up on jackstands right now in pieces, its time to do some maintenance/upgrades.

I was looking at bronze kingpin bushings. Pricing seems to be all over the place, with RuffStuff @ $90, Branik @ $95, Ballistic @ $100, TMR @ $130, NWF @ $149, ECGS @ $159, etc etc. I cant see much of a difference in them, so not sure why the price is all over the place like that. Opinions?

Id like to run them in conjunction with the springless bushing kit from Crane
https://craneaxle.com/dana-60-king-pin-spring-eliminator.html

Im not running hi-steer arms and dont plan to, so theyll be going under the stock caps.

All my bearings & kingpins are in good shape, so i only need seals.

upper kingpin seal, Spicer 620058
lower kingpin seal, Spicer 41777

for the spindle seal i was going to use the Spicer 708084 kit, which is the updated '2 seal' version for the 92-97 Ford axles, as im pretty sure this will fit the 79 D60. Comes with spindle bearing.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdh-708084

The hub seal should be the same as pretty much every other D60 out there, National p/n NS 415960


Also planning on yukon locking hubs to replace my 35 spline spicers that never lock/unlock properly.

I seem to recall back in the early days of the Yukon hubs that people ran into issues with getting the dials to turn but it seems thats been resolved by now. I think my primary concern is, ive heard of people having issues running the bronze kingpin bushings with the spring eliminators, so i was looking to see if anyone here has run them, and if so did you run into any issues?
 
If you read the new thread => https://irate4x4.com/general-4x4/83214-new-tech-for-old-axles-kingpin

You will find that most still running those dinosaurs are cutting off the kingpins and replacing the C and knuckles and switching to 05+ SD hubs.

So really you should start here => https://irate4x4.com/general-4x4/137293-removing-tube-from-inner-c

Which brings you back to => https://irate4x4.com/general-4x4/4199-05-ford-super-duty-dana-60-axle-tech-info

:flipoff2:

You know eventually the SD60 and Super60 are all going to be pick and pulled and people will be trying to sell them for the same stupid amount that people were trying to get for a rusted out Kingpins right at the end before the SD60 became the new hotness. It does look like the aftermarket has fully caught up and building a SD60 from scratch is just as easy as a Kingpin. We will probably see more and more SD/Kingpin hybrids showing up as people update the old Kingpins.
 
Sigh, yeah, i know. I was just reading that thread yesterday. But ive got 3 trucks running 8 on 6.5 stuff, plus a couple sets of beadlocks, etc. I just dont want to do the switch at this time. If i was building this thing from scratch today then id have gone SD, but this thing has been on 'tons for years. Im just looking to freshen up the front end is all.
 
Not sure about the above guy... but I'm "stuck" in the king pin ecosystem with three of them in rigs and a shelf full of parts.

In my case, Dodge KP are the perfect axle for "narrowing" and bolting into my FJ55/FJ40s: knock 7" off the driverside, use stock cast pad, weld new pad, bolt it in. I've got this done twice.

I asked in your thread above whether it is worth going from a chromo kp to Super60... nobody said "absolutely" last time I looked. My drivetrains are all passenger offset so I'd be spending a small fortune to get a Super60 that way. As for cutting the Super60 inner C and welding it on... I never got an answer to how much wider that would make my axle(s). I have no desire to get 70"s WMSs; two of mine are 60" and one at 67".

Back to OP:
For KP, one upgrade I've seen done and have on two out of three of my axles is reinforcing the upper part of the inner C's with gussets. My third will be getting it eventually. Or you can pay for aftermarket inner C's.

Ford knuckle is known to be "trash" but with "the better" brakes. There is a reinforce kit for Chevy knuckles. It doesn't work with Dodge knuckles:homer: There are a host of aftermarket knuckles. If you are "lucky", you might find WelderBill's fabbed knuckles; rumor has it there has been one or two failures(one being Camo from that other site)

If I recall right, it is almost complete replacing everything bolted to the knuckle to get to 40 spline.
 
I have gusseted knuckles and Cs on this thing, 35 spline chromos, superjoints, 5.13s, ARB. Built it many years ago, and has treated me well. Just been restoring the truck, and wanted to freshen up the front end. One day ill replace those radius arms with links, and then maybe ill replace the axles with SD stuff, but for now its just not in the cards.
 
I run the Reid Bronze bushings and an Artec high steer arm, not so much for the high steer, but just to tie the knuckle together, I'm happy with it.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
You know eventually the SD60 and Super60 are all going to be pick and pulled and people will be trying to sell them for the same stupid amount that people were trying to get for a rusted out Kingpins right at the end before the SD60 became the new hotness.
Click to expand...

I question if that's the case. I think there were many many more SD60s built than kingpin 60s. There's at least 15 years of SD 60s out there 2005 to now, and since they just refreshed it, I bet there's a few more years at minimum. I bet truck sales and the take rate of the 4x4 option was way higher in modern times than it was in the 70s and 80s, but the big difference is the SD60 was used on 3/4 tons, not just 1 tons.
 
Sterlingfire said:
http://www.partsmike.com/index.php/products/pm-d60scg-cap-dana-60-adjustable-whardware

Not sure if you've considered these instead of the spring eliminator kit. I personally would go with these instead, obviously only if bronze bushings will work with them. There are less expensive springless caps out there too, just not linking that source here:laughing:
Click to expand...

Those are nicer looking than a lot of others out there. Maybe ill email them and see if they recommend or dont recommend any particular bushing and go from there. I like the idea of simply slapping a nylon bushing in there and calling it good, but honestly, a cap with an adjustable load bolt is a better idea.
 
reptillikus said:
Those are nicer looking than a lot of others out there. Maybe ill email them and see if they recommend or dont recommend any particular bushing and go from there. I like the idea of simply slapping a nylon bushing in there and calling it good, but honestly, a cap with an adjustable load bolt is a better idea.
Click to expand...

I have one cap sitting in the parts pile, and the passenger side has a high steer arm on it. Since i installed it, i haven't touched anything on it. I was going to install the cap, but started on my new build, and have neglected the old one.... I'm not using bronze though:laughing:I just like the idea of the springless being adjustable
 
Jeffh555 said:
I question if that's the case. I think there were many many more SD60s built than kingpin 60s. There's at least 15 years of SD 60s out there 2005 to now, and since they just refreshed it, I bet there's a few more years at minimum. I bet truck sales and the take rate of the 4x4 option was way higher in modern times than it was in the 70s and 80s, but the big difference is the SD60 was used on 3/4 tons, not just 1 tons.
Click to expand...

While all that is agreeable on the short term scale. This might be the last run of useful solid axles before electric and or IFS ends the solid axle era.
Maybe in 2035 we will not care about solid axles anymore and some new electric hub will be all the rage. But the die hard nostalgic crowd will still want a solid axle to throw under the old classic they are restoring.
Take for instance the Humvee /H1 and the portal boxes that people are putting on solid axles or IFS. They had a run from 1983 to somewhere around 2006. Sources have been drying up now that they have been out of production for 14 years unless you want to buy a complete one for high dollar that manly sat at a base or parts from a worn out one that was overloaded with armor and it is getting dismantled. I see the same happening with the SD as time passes.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
While all that is agreeable on the short term scale. This might be the last run of useful solid axles before electric and or IFS ends the solid axle era.
Maybe in 2035 we will not care about solid axles anymore and some new electric hub will be all the rage. But the die hard nostalgic crowd will still want a solid axle to throw under the old classic they are restoring.
Take for instance the Humvee /H1 and the portal boxes that people are putting on solid axles or IFS. They had a run from 1983 to somewhere around 2006. Sources have been drying up now that they have been out of production for 14 years unless you want to buy a complete one for high dollar that manly sat at a base or parts from a worn out one that was overloaded with armor and it is getting dismantled. I see the same happening with the SD as time passes.
Click to expand...

Humvees never made it into the used parts system the way Ford trucks did though. Sold front axles are becoming more and more prevalent in 450 and larger sized trucks, those will be the last vehicles to go electric because keeping weight down lets you move more shit without getting raped by DOT fines.

Electric is taking over cars like FWD did in the 80s. Trucks are gonna take a lot longer to go electric than you think. Maybe 2045 or 2055.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Humvees never made it into the used parts system the way Ford trucks did though.
Click to expand...

Found out that the military has around 100,000 Humvee in inventory as of 2019, so far they have scrapped 19,000 between 2014-2019 because they dont want to demilitarize and will not allow contractors to demilitarize them either. Only a few of models are deemed non militarized or easy enough to demilitarize. Estimated 156 million in sales will be lost by scrapping the rest of the fleet.
Sad.
 
Jeffh555 said:
I question if that's the case. I think there were many many more SD60s built than kingpin 60s. There's at least 15 years of SD 60s out there 2005 to now, and since they just refreshed it, I bet there's a few more years at minimum. I bet truck sales and the take rate of the 4x4 option was way higher in modern times than it was in the 70s and 80s, but the big difference is the SD60 was used on 3/4 tons, not just 1 tons.
Click to expand...


Around here, they already are. A normal yard, you can find them from $5-800 or so, but there are a few "SD truck yards" and they want $11-1500 for the fronts and $500 for a rear. I quickly asked if they were looking to buy more for near that amount.
 
reptillikus said:
Also planning on yukon locking hubs to replace my 35 spline spicers that never lock/unlock properly.

I seem to recall back in the early days of the Yukon hubs that people ran into issues with getting the dials to turn but it seems thats been resolved by now. I think my primary concern is, ive heard of people having issues running the bronze kingpin bushings with the spring eliminators, so i was looking to see if anyone here has run them, and if so did you run into any issues?
Click to expand...

I've got a 79 KP60 under my rig that's treated me well. Reinforced knuckles, chromo 35spl shafts, Hardcore Hubs, Spicer Life U-Joints, Ox Locker, GM 2500hd brakes (WFO makes a bracket kit). All under an 8500lb rig on 40s. I do run springless caps, but I don't run bronze bushings, because I'm told they don't work as well on the street - the real reason is that I'm cheap :flipoff2: I also run the UHMW sprindle bushings instead of the spindle bearing and they seem to work well.

For the Yukon hardcore hubs, as long as you don't overgrease the parts and you properly torque the 6 locking hub outer screws, it's worked perfectly fine for me - AS LONG AS there's no preload on the hub (make sure your front diff is unlocked). I had a welded diff for a while and it was a bitch to get them to unlock. Now that I've got a selectable it's super easy.
 
Thats good to know. Ive got the yukon hubs sitting in a box in the garage right now. ARB re-oringed and reinstalled, just basically waiting on springless caps from partsmike to arrive, and i can put the knuckles back on and finish reassembly. Interesting info about the bronze bushings; i hadnt heard that, and i am planning on some street use. Partsmike includes new bushings with his caps, so im probably going to run them for now, and upgrade to the bronze down the road if i think i need them. its not like its hard to change them anyway.

I thought about the spindle bushings too; wasnt sure how they do at speed, and ive got extra (new) spindle bearings, so i figure ill just keep running them for now.
 
I'm stuck with KP stuff and TBH I'm fine with it since I have a bunch of spares. My new rig has a GM 60 cut down to 65, rotated and trussed, bronze bushings, Sky arms with Dodge knuckles double sheered. At full bump my pinion is next to my oil pan sump, there's is no chance I'll ever be able to run a HP axle in it. I'm confident it'll hold up, my last one held up great.
 
Are KP axles that out of date nowadays? I was planning on picking up a 5.xx geared/locked Ford KP60 and Sterling combo from my buddy to put under my Tacoma.
 
Wulf said:
Are KP axles that out of date nowadays? I was planning on picking up a 5.xx geared/locked Ford KP60 and Sterling combo from my buddy to put under my Tacoma.
Click to expand...

Depends upon need. For me, I have shelves of KP crap so I keep using KP. I also need passenger drop and leaf spring for two of my rigs. Guess what has passenger side leaf spring? KP. Even more so in my case, I can take a Dodge KP, knock 7" off long side, weld a single perch, and bolt it in. I don't want to see how much effort any other axle would be.
 
Lil'John said:
Depends upon need. For me, I have shelves of KP crap so I keep using KP. I also need passenger drop and leaf spring for two of my rigs. Guess what has passenger side leaf spring? KP. Even more so in my case, I can take a Dodge KP, knock 7" off long side, weld a single perch, and bolt it in. I don't want to see how much effort any other axle would be.
Click to expand...

This one is a driver drop and the perch width isn't too important because I'm throwing a truss on and doing a 3 link... I will have to do that work regardless of the axle I choose
 
Wulf said:
This one is a driver drop and the perch width isn't too important because I'm throwing a truss on and doing a 3 link... I will have to do that work regardless of the axle I choose
Click to expand...

The main reason i want out of kingpin is that I'm tired of needing to service my wheel/ spindle bearings every time i do a deep water/ mud ride. Sealed unit bearings with slip on rotors are a huge advantage to me. Having the ability to run 1550 shafts stock isn't too bad when thinking of going to 40" stickys either.
 
Sterlingfire said:
The main reason i want out of kingpin is that I'm tired of needing to service my wheel/ spindle bearings every time i do a deep water/ mud ride. Sealed unit bearings with slip on rotors are a huge advantage to me. Having the ability to run 1550 shafts stock isn't too bad when thinking of going to 40" stickys either.
Click to expand...

I hear ya on that. That is something I didn't even consider, but mud and deep water crossings are something I rarely if ever encounter.


Do you think the KP 60 u joints would not hold up to 40s? IIRC my buddy ran a KP60 front with 44s in a buggy
 
Sterlingfire said:
The main reason i want out of kingpin is that I'm tired of needing to service my wheel/ spindle bearings every time i do a deep water/ mud ride. Sealed unit bearings with slip on rotors are a huge advantage to me. Having the ability to run 1550 shafts stock isn't too bad when thinking of going to 40" stickys either.
Click to expand...

I don't intentionally play in deep mud holes, but I am not afraid of a water crossing. I've gone through my spindles and cleaned up the sealing surfaces, put in brand new seals, and even shimmed the stub shaft at the c-clip that engages the splines to ensure it's "pulled" against the back side of the spindle. I now have not seen a drop of moisture in my wheel bearings even after driving into some tire-deep water a dozen or so times. It's nice to not have to worry about it any more; I now repack bearings once a year (sometimes longer than that, depending on usage).

The 1550 u-joints will be stronger, there's no question there, but the stock shafts (1550 or 1480) are probably weaker than a 1480 u-joint anyway. The 1550 joints ARE nice because they allow a tighter turning radius without binding if you have the clearance.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
You will find that most still running those dinosaurs are cutting off the kingpins and replacing the C and knuckles and switching to 05+ SD hubs.
Click to expand...

What?

How can you say most people with kp knuckles are doing this like you're the Don of axles & know everyone who has them? Why isn't there a mega thread about all the people who are doing this?
​​​​​​I can see people moving from KP to ball joint axles but have never seen anyone cut up their king pin axle with 3-1/8" tubes and put on 05+ knuckles.

Can you post up some links to this? If most people with KP knuckles are doing it then it shouldn't be too hard to find.

I personally don't have a preference either way, I would even run 99-04 axle if it is appropriate for the project at hand.
 
Wulf said:
I hear ya on that. That is something I didn't even consider, but mud and deep water crossings are something I rarely if ever encounter.


Do you think the KP 60 u joints would not hold up to 40s? IIRC my buddy ran a KP60 front with 44s in a buggy
Click to expand...

if you arent crossing water or playing in mud, then it's no difference beside the ability to run 1550 shafts in stock knuckles. See dman's response below about shafts likely being the weak point. I hadn't really thought about that. The amount of work to 3 link a kingpin<05+super duty, by a large margin. I've done both now.
In MI, mud and water is inevitable. I don't necessarily like it either, but it's a part of life for us. If you can get the seals to work like dman has, you'll be fine. I just haven't spent the time to get that done. Might have to soon though, looks like I'm switching my axles and suspension to a different frame...
I run 37's on my kingpin and it does fine. I've only broken the H in the 1310 double cardan with stock shafts.

DMANbluesfreak said:
I don't intentionally play in deep mud holes, but I am not afraid of a water crossing. I've gone through my spindles and cleaned up the sealing surfaces, put in brand new seals, and even shimmed the stub shaft at the c-clip that engages the splines to ensure it's "pulled" against the back side of the spindle. I now have not seen a drop of moisture in my wheel bearings even after driving into some tire-deep water a dozen or so times. It's nice to not have to worry about it any more; I now repack bearings once a year (sometimes longer than that, depending on usage).

The 1550 u-joints will be stronger, there's no question there, but the stock shafts (1550 or 1480) are probably weaker than a 1480 u-joint anyway. The 1550 joints ARE nice because they allow a tighter turning radius without binding if you have the clearance.
Click to expand...

Yeah mud isn't my goal, it just ends up being in the way in MI:laughing:
I really hadn't thought about the shaft being the weak link, so really the 1550 aspect is probably more about turning radius on a big ass rig like we run...i guess that's why i originally wanted an np205 transfer case, front digs :smokin: I suppose rear steer is next:rolleyes:
 
I went kingpin front because it was a matching set and the people I wheel with run them. Don’t care what the newest best thing is and I can’t find a super doody axle anyways.

I did Ballistic Fanrication bronze bushings with sprinkles high steer. Summit racing has all the parts for rebuilding the whole thing and they’re so close it’s easy for me. Switching to unit bearings and metric bolt patters puts ME in the seat of being the oddball vehicle if I run with the group. I’m not going to be doing any racing and I’ll upgrade to super duty axles when this one gets destroyed. There is still lots of support for the axle.
 
Sterlingfire said:
The main reason i want out of kingpin is that I'm tired of needing to service my wheel/ spindle bearings every time i do a deep water/ mud ride. Sealed unit bearings with slip on rotors are a huge advantage to me. Having the ability to run 1550 shafts stock isn't too bad when thinking of going to 40" stickys either.
Click to expand...

Sorry to tell you but I have friends that cut off unit bearing knuckles for KP for the fact they could service the bearings. They were killing unit bearings non stop between trail rides and races so they made the switch and never looked back. It's not my choice obviously and I really don't care what you do just figured you might want to be aware people are swapping backwards to KP stuff for the very reason your trying to move away from it.
 
94toytruck said:
Sorry to tell you but I have friends that cut off unit bearing knuckles for KP for the fact they could service the bearings. They were killing unit bearings non stop between trail rides and races so they made the switch and never looked back. It's not my choice obviously and I really don't care what you do just figured you might want to be aware people are swapping backwards to KP stuff for the very reason your trying to move away from it.
Click to expand...

Hmm, that could suck. I guess I'll find out if i ever get my build finished. I'm currently looking to get my kingpin on another rig so i can wheel while i build the new toy. I'll try to get the seal setup done like dman has, and see how that works out.
 
94toytruck said:
Sorry to tell you but I have friends that cut off unit bearing knuckles for KP for the fact they could service the bearings. They were killing unit bearings non stop between trail rides and races so they made the switch and never looked back. It's not my choice obviously and I really don't care what you do just figured you might want to be aware people are swapping backwards to KP stuff for the very reason your trying to move away from it.
Click to expand...

05+ unit bearings or 99-04 unit bearings?
 
Dan said:
What?

How can you say most people with kp knuckles are doing this like you're the Don of axles & know everyone who has them? Why isn't there a mega thread about all the people who are doing this?
​​​​​​I can see people moving from KP to ball joint axles but have never seen anyone cut up their king pin axle with 3-1/8" tubes and put on 05+ knuckles.

Can you post up some links to this? If most people with KP knuckles are doing it then it shouldn't be too hard to find.

I personally don't have a preference either way, I would even run 99-04 axle if it is appropriate for the project at hand.
Click to expand...

This is too good! When you see ":flipoff2:" you cant take it seriously or believe it with any amount of certainty.
I don't know why anyone in their right mind would cut the C's off of a KP axle and a BJ axle only to switch the same center sections around. The conspiracy theory was loosely based on the thread linked that some people were trying to adapt unit bearings to a KP knuckle. Just as some are converting unit bearing knuckles to old school rebuild able bearings. Everyone has good and bad reason for what they want to do.
To truly be this offended, you must be one of the die hard nostalgic KP guys. I would not be surprised if you are one of those guys on craigslist trying to sell a bent, rusted out KP for top dollar and thinks its one of the last remaining mint condition KP's in existence. :flipoff2:

IMG_8478.jpg
 
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