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New Dumb Question: Using antiseize and washers on beadlocks?

Rob50lx

Rob50lx

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2020
Member Number
1660
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93
I guess it isn't a question since I already applied antiseize to my supplied zinc plated bolts on my new aluminum beadlocks with metal threaded inserts.
I'm using torque wrench and 20 ft lbs with antiseize vs 24 ft lbs dry. I'm able to make the beadlock ring sit flush to the wheel with no gap at 20 ft lbs.

I tried to use hard nylon washers but the small head of the allen bolt cut through the washer so that was a bust! When I used same washers on a stainless steel button head bolt with larger diameter it didn't spit out the washer. I had a couple of these 3/8-16 bolts laying around but I haven't used them in the wheel yet. I was just testing the washer durability and I didn't encounter nylon washer issues with button head bolt until about 30 ft llbs torque.

Cheapest option would be to buy similar zinc plated or quality AN style thin washer and using supplied small head 3/8-16 allen bolts. I have also found a 3/8" lock washer that fits into the beadlock recess.

Should I even consider using stainless bolts or is that unsafe in this application? Are plated bolts my only real option?

1. Cool but expensive ($150) for 120 stainless steel button head bolts. (all options 1a-1d will be below the beadlock ring surface)
a. try to use nylon washers again
b. use no washers but antiseize and have larger clamping surface due to diameter of button head bolt
c. use thin AN washers
d. use lock washers of some material? if yes what material?

2. Cheaper and continue to use supplied hardware an no washer but keeping antiseize since it is already applied. Just below flush on beadlock ring.
a. Use lock washers. Slightly above beadlock ring
b. use thin AN washers. Flush with beadlock ring


sample of bolts and washers. Bolt on right was supplied with wheel. middle stainless, left oxide coated
Middle is lock washer. Left is AN style, right thickness but his diameter is too large, right is nylon
1638312668224.png
 
Its not completely clear what the question is here. What are you expecting to accomplish with washers? Or different bolts?

Sounds like you are getting hung up on the bolt torque. The goal of a bolted (tension) connection is to achieve a certain amount of preload. It is very common to "measure" preload in terms of the torque required to turn the bolt. That said, bolt torque is a horrible way to measure preload because it depends so heavily on the friction between the threads. When you apply anti-seize then friction between the threads is reduced and lower bolt torque is required to achieve the same amount of preload.

If you were able to seat the ring on the wheel without coning then you are done. Check the bolts regularly.
 
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Stainless cannot be hardened, so most stainless bolts are only a little above grade 2 strength wise.

Always use anti-sleeze for beadlock ring bolts.

Lock washers? Do you mean split washers? No split washers on beadlock bolts (hell, no split washers on anything).

Use a flat washer that is the same hardness as your bolts and that are sized properly for the application.
 
Tech Tim said:
Stainless cannot be hardened, so most stainless bolts are only a little above grade 2 strength wise.

Always use anti-sleeze for beadlock ring bolts.

Lock washers? Do you mean split washers? No split washers on beadlock bolts (hell, no split washers on anything).

Use a flat washer that is the same hardness as your bolts and that are sized properly for the application.
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Agree 100%. ARP stainless will get you in the grade 8 range and double the cost of your wheels.
 
I'm starting to learn there are differences in quality and design of different brand of beadlocks. I think my KMC XD Rage are probably on the low end of acceptable.

I realized I didn't know a lot about beadlock wheels. I wasn't sure on the torque spec and whether the ring was going to sit flush against the wheel since this was my first set. Since my Patagonia MTs have a thin tire bead that allows the beadlock ring and inner wheel to sit flush; I just need to use the proper torque for the fastener to apply the proper stretch. I don't think a bolt stretch gage is required for my situation and I can use 75% of the listed torque value with antiseize.

Now that I have a better understanding of the clamping process and construction; I'm not completely satisfied with the supplied hardware and lack of washers. I don't remember where I read or was told not to use antiseize but I didn't like that advice and went against it and I'm glad I did. I don't like that the supplied socket cap screw has a small diameter head and digs into the aluminum. I now know that a split lock washer is no good. I'm guessing that it is also stupid to use hard nylon washers in this situation even if they don't immediately deform/crack.

So with supplied hardware:
That leaves me with either a quality thin AN washer and my existing bolts sitting flush to the face of the beadlock ring
or
using a quality Nord lock washer and having the existing hardware sitting slightly above the surface of the beadlock ring.

Another option:
If I use a weak but affordable Stainless Steel button head bolt; I can use the Nord Lock washers and still sit below the ring surface.
I can also find affordable and probably slightly stronger Zinc plated button head bolts and still use a Nord Lock washer and still sit below the ring surface.
Would either of these weaker bolts be acceptable since all the rings are currently seated and I wouldn't be using the bolts to compress the rubber? Could I replace 1 supplied bolt at a time with one of these button head bolts and Nord washers and apply proper torque based on material/grade?
 
Grade 8 only. Maybe go with flange head instead of washers if the holes on the ring are more than 1/64 larger than bolt diameter.

I'd be surprised if nord lock makes a significant difference in bolts coming loose.

The main benefit of antiseize is limiting corrosion. As mentioned previously, lubricating the bolts means lower torque to achieve same preload. I believe the manufacturer torque spec is based on clean dry threads.
 
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I have always used antisieze on beadlock bolts for many years and torqued them to 25ft lbs and never had an issue, grade 8 bolts and yellow flat washers they come supplied with.
 
OP, you are still over thinking this. Grade 8 bolts OR Socket Head Cap Screws with a steel washer underneath. I use a 3/8 impact, snug it down with a cross pattern (just like you would installing a wheel) and then ugga dugga them till tight. Been running beadlocks since 2005-ish 5 different sets of beadlocks with no issues.
 
Stingray said:
Marine application only, with antiseize always.
Click to expand...
Or anywhere else where the fastener sees lots of corrosive stuff, negligible torque and isn't structural. I routinely replace zinc plated OEM sheetmetal screws with stainless. Not like the failure point isn't gonna be the sheetmetal where the threads grab in both cases
 
white-rhino said:
OP, you are still over thinking this. Grade 8 bolts OR Socket Head Cap Screws with a steel washer underneath. I use a 3/8 impact, snug it down with a cross pattern (just like you would installing a wheel) and then ugga dugga them till tight. Been running beadlocks since 2005-ish 5 different sets of beadlocks with no issues.
Click to expand...
This


Mounted 3 sets of tires this exact same way on my wifes JKUR and have never had an issue. Current set of 40s has been on there for over 40k miles and counting...
 
I use copper antisieze, flat washers and grade 8 1/4 20..

Yes on crosspattern torque pattern

Check once after 1st 30 foot jump...

Carry on...
 
Do you guys recheck tq after temp changes? :flipoff2:

I mean Jesus, these things are going to get slammed into rocks and fucked up. Who's got time to use a tq wrench on 30 bolts per wheel?
 
CAT bolts, lock nuts on the back. Otherwise I'd use blue or orange loctite. Screw Antiseeze. Tighten with impact and re check with they start to loosen and fall out.
 
My wheels have rivzerts, and will seize to the steel fastener.
Copper antisieze is a must.. ( for me )
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
This


Mounted 3 sets of tires this exact same way on my wifes JKUR and have never had an issue. Current set of 40s has been on there for over 40k miles and counting...
Click to expand...
40k trail miles on a JKUR? That's impressive, I thought they were road miles, then read that you were talking about beadlocks.... But beadlocks aren't legal on road. :lmao:
 
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