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Mini manned (kid) heavy parts hauler ideas

JNHEscher

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This may not turn into anything more than ideas, but I'm giving it a go to satisfying my curiosity and boredom.

The idea: Mini, all steel, track or screw tank that a six-year-old can sit in to operate and be protected with a full cage. Lots of low COG and capable of raising machine parts weighing as much as 4,000 pounds as high as the top of the tank.

The drive mech: Adapting a HF Badlands 5000 winch to each track/screw for really simple, low-speed control and accuracy is looking the most likely. Winches can easily be speed controlled and are reversible. 40-50 amp pot or pot-controlled PWM operated by hand control for each side.

The traction: DIY #60 or stronger chain tracks might be the ideal strength and weight and are badass. Russian-style screws looks much easier and cheaper to build, but the attachment method may not handle the weight, though could provide some awesome buoyancy on soupy terrain. Screws probably also take much less torque to put into motion.

The reason: I've got two young boys that frequently want to help me on our larger projects, but quickly become frustrated by the fact that they can't even lift much of what I work on. I have and may eventually have some very heavy parts to lift and mount. The idea of having a mini tank that can do is exciting. Having a mini tank that could do this that either of my boys could operate in very slow motion just blows my mind.

Funds will be tight if this becomes a reality. Therefore, the best way to build this is by using parts that are already manufactured to fit together. I've been digging through roller chains and sprockets on Surplus Center - not exactly cheap to bunch several strands of chain and stacks of sprockets together to make some overbuilt tracks of the size in mind. I already have an EMPI kid seat which is more or less perfect. FLA batteries are pretty cheap and add good weight. I have quite a bit of heavy steel to make one hell of a structure that should be well within the capacity of a pair of winches rated at 5,000 pounds each.

4,000 pounds being held in the air by this thing sounds a bit scary. Footprint and stability will obviously be a huge focus. Max weight is more like 2,500 pounds, but as with anything built right, it must be built to withstand much more than the maximum allowable weight.

If you were to do this, what would be your thoughts on the drive and traction? Cheap and strong don't often coincide, but somehow, I could surely come with some hefty roller chain without spending a boatload. My local materials and parts sources include steel yards with loads of sizes and shapes, Big R, Harbor Freight, all the big name auto parts stores, and ample electrical suppliers with stuff for higher DC loads. I can machine concentric parts on my 7x16 lathe and weld just about anything.
 

Skimmed over that one. Badass. The one I want to build is going to need metal tracks with a frame that can hold its own weight plus a few thousand pounds.

Still thinking on the chain tracks. #60 should be plenty. Probably $800 in track materials alone for what I'm thinking of.
 
I'm after something really low. Maybe no more than 3' tall if that's feasible in the package I'd like to assemble. I'll have pull out the seat and see how that'd look.
 
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Conveyor chain is ideal for track making. Links are flat in design and can be had in heavy versions with thicker plates.

Build it with a moveable counterweight or weight rack. It will take lots of hp to make turns with a heavy machine. Gear motors from an electric wheelchair with a chain final drive reduction will be your best cheap option.
 
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I think you're over thinking this one, a real machine with a rops seat belt and some strict safety protocols, you sit on your hands until i tell you what to do, makes more sense to me

skid steer, loader, forklift

my oldest was 2 when I used a skid steer to move gravel, she sat on my lap and ran the hand controls flawlessly (left right, forward back) I ran the bucket with my feet, and took over her controls near the fence or the cars just because

if I was running my tractor or forklift if the yard, I'd put them in my lap, they're safer inside than out

a kid that's been raised right can probably do better than the bosses worthless nephew "helper"

and it's awesome to see their self esteem when they handle a man's job
 
Electric or gas powered?
If gas, Surplus Center has a pair of 5GPM ZTR variable flow hydraulic pumps for $160ish, could use those to drive a wheelmotor with a sprocket on it.
Change the motor or drive the drive sprocket on the tracks with a chain to get the right amount of speed/power.

Aaron Z
 
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Electric or gas powered?
If gas, Surplus Center has a pair of 5GPM ZTR variable flow hydraulic pumps for $160ish, could use those to drive a wheelmotor with a sprocket on it.
Change the motor or drive the drive sprocket on the tracks with a chain to get the right amount of speed/power.

Aaron Z

this.

drive a high pressure pump on another belt for your front end loader.
 
Becareful starting down this road because it can cut 2 ways.

1. it’ll go great, it’ll be the distraction & tool you need.

2. It’s another expense, it takes you away from your family. It becomes overwhelming. It’s not a distraction, but another obligation and becomes not fun (this sets in when you already have too much time and money invested to quit without feeling a tremendous amount of guilt) Your kid is in college before you're done.

i believe in the 3x rule.
it cost 3x more than you thought
it takes 3x longer than you thought
there are 3x more problems than your worst case scenario


I have become a slave to my projects and my possessions. They have become exactly opposite of what they started out being. They are no longer a source of peace, but a source of major stress. Be careful this doesn’t happen to you.
 
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Electric or gas powered?
If gas, Surplus Center has a pair of 5GPM ZTR variable flow hydraulic pumps for $160ish, could use those to drive a wheelmotor with a sprocket on it.
Change the motor or drive the drive sprocket on the tracks with a chain to get the right amount of speed/power.

Aaron Z

Electric to either drive the tracks via electric motors or motor(s) to drive hydraulics. Kinda over listening to engines run continuously to operate hydraulics intermittently.

Where'd you see the ZTR pumps? I poked around and didn't see them.
 
Buy a skid steer, IMO

I'm going to soon, how much I spend will kinda be determined by the election, if I buy a brand new machine I can run it part time for the rest of my life and my kids could run it for part time cash while in college

I agree with grumpy, I used to take on a lot, my screen name is from when I was young and single, full of piss and vinegar, don't let the things you own, own you, time is a valuable commodity

Nowadays if I put time and money into something, I expect a pretty healthy return in quality of life
 
I neglected to mention in my first post that low overhead clearance is a major desire for ducking under stuff. Skid steer, tractor, etc. would not work out too well. That and what people demand for their incomplete piles of junk in CO is assinine. We can't afford a rusty old Case skid steer, let alone anything that's ready to run.
 
Thoughts on the screw drive? I suspect it would have less stability and weight capacity, depending on the constuction. Has some interesting advantages.
 
Electric to either drive the tracks via electric motors or motor(s) to drive hydraulics. Kinda over listening to engines run continuously to operate hydraulics intermittently.

Where'd you see the ZTR pumps? I poked around and didn't see them.
Hydraulics>Pumps>Piston Pumps, apparently its $119, not $160: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...-TW-QFFB-NFFB-1XBX-Hydraulic-Pump-9-12325.axd
Only 750PSI output though. Works out to about 4.8HP on the output side.

Aaron Z
 
Hydraulics>Pumps>Piston Pumps, apparently its $119, not $160: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...-TW-QFFB-NFFB-1XBX-Hydraulic-Pump-9-12325.axd
Only 750PSI output though. Works out to about 4.8HP on the output side.

Aaron Z

Definitely small. Didn't pull up anything other than more retailer links with the part numbers. Every ZTR I've worked on had a separate, belt-driven pump for each motor.

This machine doesn't need to be quick at all. Just good torque to move the tracks and slow accuracy. It can top out at maybe something like 20 feet per minute.
 
Definitely small. Didn't pull up anything other than more retailer links with the part numbers. Every ZTR I've worked on had a separate, belt-driven pump for each motor.

This machine doesn't need to be quick at all. Just good torque to move the tracks and slow accuracy. It can top out at maybe something like 20 feet per minute.
Might be able to work then, would need to figure out how much torque you need then size the wheel motors to get that much torque out of 750 PSI and 5 GPM per wheel.
I think those pumps are probably stacked, they likely come apart if you really wanted to.
Could probably be mounted to a face mount electric motor if you were so inclined.

Aaron Z
 
Might be able to work then, would need to figure out how much torque you need then size the wheel motors to get that much torque out of 750 PSI and 5 GPM per wheel.
I think those pumps are probably stacked, they likely come apart if you really wanted to.
Could probably be mounted to a face mount electric motor if you were so inclined.

Aaron Z

Easily mounted to a face mount motor. SC has plenty of adapter mounts and claw couplers to suit.

20fpm ground speed was rather arbitrary, but lo and behold, I ran the numbers on this combo I already had pulled up - 9.74ci motor with 0.07ci pump turned at 1,800rpm outputing 0.55gpm, 2,000psi at the motor generates 258ft.lbs. and 13rpm for one side. #60 20-tooth sprocket diameter of 5.19" at 13rpm is 18fpm. If I'm not mistaken, a flow divider would be necessary for the one pump to operate both motors. I'll see what I come up for stacked pumps and run the numbers with the pumps you posted.

Hydro does get costly, though the simplest setup for coupling drives and powering the lifting. The winches would require some machining and welding to drive the tracks and the planetaries make some awful din. I'm rather clueless about how much torque would be required to move this with full loaded weight. Lots of "rolling" resistance. Just over 500ft.lbs. combined on what might be about a 6" diameter "wheel" sounds pretty good.
 
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Conveyor chain is ideal for track making. Links are flat in design and can be had in heavy versions with thicker plates.

Build it with a moveable counterweight or weight rack. It will take lots of hp to make turns with a heavy machine. Gear motors from an electric wheelchair with a chain final drive reduction will be your best cheap option.

Took your chain suggestion. Ended up finding conveyor chain on Surplus Center. Priced a whole lot better than what the #60 and such that I was looking at before. C2060 looks to be the top contender.

Looking at wheelchair motors now. Cheaper, quieter, and most likely longer lasting option than winches and the wheelchair gearboxes already have a keyed shaft. I'm thinking that the Jazzy motors have worm gear boxes. This would sweet because they should act more or less as a brake if the ratio is deep enough.
 
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There's a few of these Jazzy motor models on fleabay. Ready to pull the trigger on them if they'll work.

Edit: Went ahead on bought one to open up and inspect.

Only info I could find of physical specs were 17mm shaft. Not sure that applies to this model because everyone else appears to use the "silver" model with the worm and spur gear model. These black ones look like they're straight worm gear, which I would much prefer. No idea what ratio or motor shaft speed. Said to have around 120rpm shaft speed at 24 volts. If 120rpm is correct, around an 8:1 chain reduction would drop the track sprocket rpm back to what I came up with on the hydro combo and just might have decent torque. 1,200 max watts is 50 amps. That's gotta have some grunt.

Everyone using these Jazzy motors appears to take off what I understand is an electromagnetic brake at the end of the motor. With that said, I guess these wouldn't offer any worm gear braking if they require a brake to hold a wheelchair that would weigh maybe 1/10th of the machine I want to build. Hydraulics have too much drift to offer braking without some valving, but that's a cheap and simple addition.

s-l1600.jpg
 
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There's a few of these Jazzy motor models on fleabay. Ready to pull the trigger on them if they'll work.

Edit: Went ahead on bought one to open up and inspect.

Only info I could find of physical specs were 17mm shaft. Not sure that applies to this model because everyone else appears to use the "silver" model with the worm and spur gear model. These black ones look like they're straight worm gear, which I would much prefer. No idea what ratio or motor shaft speed. Said to have around 120rpm shaft speed at 24 volts. If 120rpm is correct, around an 8:1 chain reduction would drop the track sprocket rpm back to what I came up with on the hydro combo and just might have decent torque. 1,200 max watts is 50 amps. That's gotta have some grunt.

Everyone using these Jazzy motors appears to take off what I understand is an electromagnetic brake at the end of the motor. With that said, I guess these wouldn't offer any worm gear braking if they require a brake to hold a wheelchair that would weigh maybe 1/10th of the machine I want to build. Hydraulics have too much drift to offer braking without some valving, but that's a cheap and simple addition.

s-l1600.jpg

Worm gear boxes will still rotate somewhat if enough force is applied, depending on their pitch. Ditch the mag brake and use your speed control for braking.
 
Worm gear boxes will still rotate somewhat if enough force is applied, depending on their pitch. Ditch the mag brake and use your speed control for braking.

Exactly. Don't yet know if that particular motor has the electro brake or not. Couldn't find anything in searches showing the gearbox pictured and have no clue what the gear ratio is. Everyone's using the boxier gearboxes with dual reduction. Gotta run this one through the ringer to see if it's a viable option. I'll post up results.

Edit: In my lack of sleep, I didn't remember that the motor listing description said the brake had been removed. Was thinking I had only seen that on the silver gearbox motors.
 
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those electric wheelchair motors look just like the auto tarp motors the dump trucks around here use. might be an alternative to look into.?
 
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