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Military pay vs Private salary

Leadfoot21 said:
Hard pass . Kid is lying about his current pay for housing/sustenance to start with ( misleading let’s say) and is only a 2nd lieutenant because he used the GI bill to get his degree which automatically makes him an officer . He’s a kid fresh out of college with no experience offer him accordingly . But seriously I would pass because of the lying . Unless he has a bunch of kids and the COL is extremely high there he’s lying about what he “makes “ temporarily at that , nope.
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Sometimes it's best to keep your mouth shut and leave people wondering if you are a fool.:homer:

If he was a second lieutenant because he used the GI bill to get his degree, he would have already served 3 to 4 years on active duty prior to starting college. Having a degree does not automatically make one an officer, they have to be appointed as such. People with bachelor's degrees enlist every day at E4. In no way is he lying about his income, he is actually one of the few being honest about what the military actually makes. The guy above saying he made 12,600 a year as a diver? He's not factoring in all of his pay. He made another $637 of tax-free food allowance (or rations in-kind), And a bare minimum of $3,600 in tax-free housing allowance (or quarters in-kind), plus VHA that accounted for variances in higher cost of living areas. Adjusting for the tax-free status, that is the equivalent of roughly $5,300 per year on top of his $12,600, totaling $17,900 in 1985 which is worth over $53,200 today.
 
DRTDEVL said:
Sometimes it's best to keep your mouth shut and leave people wondering if you are a fool.:homer:

If he was a second lieutenant because he used the GI bill to get his degree, he would have already served 3 to 4 years on active duty prior to starting college. Having a degree does not automatically make one an officer, they have to be appointed as such. People with bachelor's degrees enlist every day at E4. In no way is he lying about his income, he is actually one of the few being honest about what the military actually makes. The guy above saying he made 12,600 a year as a diver? He's not factoring in all of his pay. He made another $637 of tax-free food allowance (or rations in-kind), And a bare minimum of $3,600 in tax-free housing allowance (or quarters in-kind), plus VHA that accounted for variances in higher cost of living areas. Adjusting for the tax-free status, that is the equivalent of roughly $5,300 per year on top of his $12,600, totaling $17,900 in 1985 which is worth over $53,200 today.
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Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of a lot of the military folks with the whoa is me pay argument, but it's the same gripe I have with a lot of teachers as well. If it was truly paying that dirt poor, literally nobody would join. Of course it's impossible to speak for each persons experience, as even 2 guys within the same command/unit can have vastly different experiences, but all things considered, it's not a bad life. For sure there are days where you eat a lot of dicks, but those same people will also conveniently forget to mention the discretionary time off received, holidays, and days/weeks/months where they skate with minimal responsibility.

Yeah yeah yeah...you had to walk 10 miles up hill to work each day before starting PT at 0400 and you didn't get home until 2200 each night :laughing::flipoff2:
 
Otto M@n said:
Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of a lot of the military folks with the whoa is me pay argument, but it's the same gripe I have with a lot of teachers as well. If it was truly paying that dirt poor, literally nobody would join. Of course it's impossible to speak for each persons experience, as even 2 guys within the same command/unit can have vastly different experiences, but all things considered, it's not a bad life. For sure there are days where you eat a lot of dicks, but those same people will also conveniently forget to mention the discretionary time off received, holidays, and days/weeks/months where they skate with minimal responsibility.

Yeah yeah yeah...you had to walk 10 miles up hill to work each day before starting PT at 0400 and you didn't get home until 2200 each night :laughing::flipoff2:
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Any teacher who doesn't have an off season gig is leaving a lot of (probably tax free) money on the table.
 
clodhopper said:
I am not savvy on current military pay structures. Trying to understand how this all works to make an offer to a young guy.

Young guy has BS in engineering . He is through boot and involved with other training (yeah I dunno how all that works or what is required) with the end goal of Reserves. Currently a 2ndLT. My offer and his expectation are far apart, not unusual these days with the bullshit ideas young people are filled with. In exploring the reasoning for what he is asking, cause no real experience on his resume other than the army training stuff that doesnt transfer, he says "my current military pay for a 2LT is 45,914 base pay + 39,108 (untaxed) for Allowance for Housing/ Sustenance".

After all the years of being told military pay is shit, this caught me off guard. A no-nothing 2LT is earning 85k a year? Is this realistic or is the housing/sustenance temporary or something? How does this convert to equivalent private industry income structures?
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My first job straight off a BS in Mechanical Engineering was 66k back in 2015

We hire engineers at ~85k straight out of school and promote them to 100k within 2 or so years. But we're a consulting firm not an engineering company :homer: So not sure if those rates are applicable to actual engineering:laughing:
 
You guys are making me happy I didn't take the extra years for an engineering degree.

These days paying $50k+ for a degree to make less than 6 figures is crazy. I stopped at 2 years and $20k and still make 6 figures. :flipoff2:
 
sdmuleman said:
Keep in mind too that there's likely a fair bit of work/stress involved civilian jobs don't have. I can only comment on Navy, but on ships and subs a JO shipboard isn't just working a 40 hr week, but like 40-50 hrs during the normal work week, plus duty on the order of once every 3-4 days, and that's in port. Underway is pretty much 16 hrs days 6 days a week and watch on sunday. I once did the math and came up with effectively minimum wage if you look at the number of hours worked. Admittedly shore duty is much closer to a regular job (and can be even less hours), but it balances out.



Then add in the whole potential dying thing, all the BS military makes you put up with and the fact that you go work when where and how they say.
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Nope, sorry. Those are pansy hours. I have had 100 plus hour weekly timesheets over the years. I have been working 70 to 80 hrs per week since about October to deal with a management turnover. All that on salary, so yeah math it out and I dont earn that much per hour. Nearly my entire career I have traveled out of state or out of country at a moments notice for unknown periods. So the "military have extra duty" crap doesnt even flex the meter for me. Stress? Not a one of those guys is responsible to find enough work to keep thier people employed. Lets just say, military has different stresses, not more.

Oh and before you jump on it, I grew up milltary family and extended family. I know pretty well how unstressed most of them really were.

And potential to die? I am on construction sites and mine sites pretty regularly. I travel to foreign shithole countries without a weapon. If I am lucky I can whack em with my hardhat before they shoot me. I dont get hazard pay to do it and I dont have the rest of the fedgov backing me up. War breaks out, I have some compassion to that situation. Peace time? get the fuggouttahere.
 
Clemson13 said:
My first job straight off a BS in Mechanical Engineering was 66k back in 2015

We hire engineers at ~85k straight out of school and promote them to 100k within 2 or so years. But we're a consulting firm not an engineering company :homer: So not sure if those rates are applicable to actual engineering:laughing:
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Well that is also mechanical engineering. You guys look down your noses at what we do. :flipoff2:
 
Chevy_man said:
You guys are making me happy I didn't take the extra years for an engineering degree.

These days paying $50k+ for a degree to make less than 6 figures is crazy. I stopped at 2 years and $20k and still make 6 figures. :flipoff2:
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yeah, pretty much every college grad asks themselves that question. Particularly if their job post college involves coffee or fries.

Going to college is a financial setback at that moment, but usually, with exception of what colleges have been doing the last couple decades, the degree puts you on a high gain slope, so at the end of the trip, it was likely worth investing in the degree. Reference the Game of Life, which actually does a pretty good job with the options regarding college.

Fresh grad engineers are a wholly unknown commodity. Could be good, could be terrible. The degree only establishes you are competent with math, can handle basic logic and problem solving and maybe even have an interest in the subject manner. It doesnt define if an applicant has the ability to apply those skills, can work with a group of peers, can grasp basic economics, can handle being wrong and resolving that situation, and many other things. We interview, and even hired a few, real whackadoos that had no life skills or ability to communicate. Some cannot think in 3D. The list is long. Anyway, they will not make it and get washed out. 40 to 60% end up being functional, if not great, and they get pushed up the pay scale pretty quick. I am not hiring a potential smackerhead at competent pay levels to have to figure out how to get rid of em. High pay levels just attact all the fireflys from india, russia, south america, middle east, that just want a visa but need a job to get it. We get swamped with those even at lower advertized pay levels. There are arguments for adverting higher or lower or differently, and I do agree that there may be benefits of doing so, but there are also pitfalls. Our current system has been (for the most part) a somewhat reasonable balance. The issue in this case is I didnt know how to evaluate what his pay rate really meant.
 
clodhopper said:
Nope, sorry. Those are pansy hours. I have had 100 plus hour weekly timesheets over the years. I have been working 70 to 80 hrs per week since about October to deal with a management turnover. All that on salary, so yeah math it out and I dont earn that much per hour. Nearly my entire career I have traveled out of state or out of country at a moments notice for unknown periods. So the "military have extra duty" crap doesnt even flex the meter for me. Stress? Not a one of those guys is responsible to find enough work to keep thier people employed. Lets just say, military has different stresses, not more.

Oh and before you jump on it, I grew up milltary family and extended family. I know pretty well how unstressed most of them really were.

And potential to die? I am on construction sites and mine sites pretty regularly. I travel to foreign shithole countries without a weapon. If I am lucky I can whack em with my hardhat before they shoot me. I dont get hazard pay to do it and I dont have the rest of the fedgov backing me up. War breaks out, I have some compassion to that situation. Peace time? get the fuggouttahere.
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Dude, go squeeze some dirt and calm yourself down. :flipoff2:
 
I used to feel bad about people that complained about their pay
Then I later realized that they left out the part that the lifelong 'perks' follow them out the front gate. Not the best perks, but I buy my own health insurance.
 
clodhopper said:
Nope, sorry. Those are pansy hours. I have had 100 plus hour weekly timesheets over the years. I have been working 70 to 80 hrs per week since about October to deal with a management turnover. All that on salary, so yeah math it out and I dont earn that much per hour. Nearly my entire career I have traveled out of state or out of country at a moments notice for unknown periods. So the "military have extra duty" crap doesnt even flex the meter for me. Stress? Not a one of those guys is responsible to find enough work to keep thier people employed. Lets just say, military has different stresses, not more.

Oh and before you jump on it, I grew up milltary family and extended family. I know pretty well how unstressed most of them really were.

And potential to die? I am on construction sites and mine sites pretty regularly. I travel to foreign shithole countries without a weapon. If I am lucky I can whack em with my hardhat before they shoot me. I dont get hazard pay to do it and I dont have the rest of the fedgov backing me up. War breaks out, I have some compassion to that situation. Peace time? get the fuggouttahere.
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Thank you for your service. :usa:
 
KarlVP said:
Thank you for your service. :usa:
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Never asked for a thankyou, never expected one. It is a job, it pays and allows me to live where I choose. Sometimes it sucks a bit, but that is why work is a four letter word. My staff appreciates what I do, that is enough for me.

But social obligatory "thanks for your service" to all the vets, actives, first responders, nurses, and whatever other class of workers who chose to work for the pay offered but want to be viewed as a saint or something. Oh yeah, dont forget the teachers, them too. So Thanks all for your service! :flipoff2:
 
clodhopper said:
primarily geotech, considered bottom of the barrel according to those high falooting structurals assholes.
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Same, I remember professors telling us back in the 90s that we should be getting over 100k starting, I had been working as a tech at terracon and got bumped to 32k when they moved me into an engineering position. I get kids coming around with no experience, fresh out of school, didnt pass the FE exam yet, wanting over 100k.
 
BarfBag said:
Same, I remember professors telling us back in the 90s that we should be getting over 100k starting, I had been working as a tech at terracon and got bumped to 32k when they moved me into an engineering position. I get kids coming around with no experience, fresh out of school, didnt pass the FE exam yet, wanting over 100k.
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90s? Roughly double that salary for today. So in todays govt fun monies, you would have been earning 64k. Hey! Right in line for what newbie engineers are being hired at today! Whodathunkit.

I really have no heartburn over newbies getting 60-70 starting (depends on market) Inflation rates make that appropriate. The hard side of it is employees that have been with you for a few decades, their pay generally just kept up with inflation despite calling it merit raises. Best I can figure in todays market, company loyalty only screws the employee. You do significantly better on overall salary gains by jumping companies every 4 to 5 years or so. I sometimes run across an applicant that has done that job cycling thing and then have to decide are they making career gains or are they just a job-hopper with poor skills.
 
clodhopper said:
90s? Roughly double that salary for today. So in todays govt fun monies, you would have been earning 64k. Hey! Right in line for what newbie engineers are being hired at today! Whodathunkit.
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I was happy to get the 32k, big bump from the $10/hr i was pulling as a field/lab tech.

The professors telling the students to expect over 100k starting was complete bs. I saw classmates turn down offers of 45-55 because they assumed the professors were correct on the 100k plus. My dad was an engineer and told me early on that engineering wouldnt make me rich, but it might provide me with enough money that i could get into real estate on the side and get rich.

My daughter recently left the Navy as a LTJG and most of the jobs she interviewed for, and the one she accepted, were in the 60-65k range.
 
grumpy356 said:
I thought your company paid extra for people willing to do a tour in Camden or some other BFI facility?
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Maybe for the assemblers but not for the salaried folks.

They can't pay me enough to move to camden.
 
clodhopper said:
Best I can figure in todays market, company loyalty only screws the employee. You do significantly better on overall salary gains by jumping companies every 4 to 5 years or so. I sometimes run across an applicant that has done that job cycling thing and then have to decide are they making career gains or are they just a job-hopper with poor skills.
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That is highly industry dependent.

In my industry, ground transportation and logistics, many drivers do better staying at one company for a very long time because not only do they get their longevity raises, but anytime a pay scale jumps, their pay jumps with the scale. Jumping to another company only puts them back at the bottom of the totem pole.

In my case, I started as an hourly, part-time driver, but then accepted a full-time office position that was salary, only to fall ill and disappear for a while. I was then offered to return part-time as my condition slowly improved, but was placed in an hourly status again (dividing the new salary by 2080 and rounding up to the nearest dollar). Once I could return to the office full time, I went back to salary. Just over a year later, I interviewed for, and accepted, a huge promotion. If I were to convert my starting pay to full-time and compare it to my current salary, my pay has increased roughly 150% in 5 years, all with the same employer.

Sometimes staying with the same employer works to an individual's favor, provided there is room for advancement within the company. In less than 5 years, I moved from the very bottom of the totem pole all the way to the 4th person in the hierarchy of the company. Not seniority, hierarchy. The only people above me are the Owner/CEO, President/COO, and the VP/Sales. Every driver in the company answers to me along with the advertising staff and recruiting staff. The Operations Manager does not directly report to me, but must follow my directive. The accounting department head also does not directly report to me, but must follow my directive. The Shop Foreman does not report to me, either, but must follow my directive in the Fleet Management perspective. The only person in charge of anything who I don't direct is the IT guy... Although I have been known to order him around a time or two.:laughing:

TL;DR: Company loyalty can pay off from time to time. I don't see myself going anywhere before retirement.
 
DRTDEVL said:
Sometimes it's best to keep your mouth shut and leave people wondering if you are a fool.:homer:

If he was a second lieutenant because he used the GI bill to get his degree, he would have already served 3 to 4 years on active duty prior to starting college. Having a degree does not automatically make one an officer, they have to be appointed as such. People with bachelor's degrees enlist every day at E4. In no way is he lying about his income, he is actually one of the few being honest about what the military actually makes. The guy above saying he made 12,600 a year as a diver? He's not factoring in all of his pay. He made another $637 of tax-free food allowance (or rations in-kind), And a bare minimum of $3,600 in tax-free housing allowance (or quarters in-kind), plus VHA that accounted for variances in higher cost of living areas. Adjusting for the tax-free status, that is the equivalent of roughly $5,300 per year on top of his $12,600, totaling $17,900 in 1985 which is worth over $53,200 today.
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Army Second Lieutenant - Military Ranks perhaps GI bill wasn’t the correct verbiage but the other is correct see the link.

Also when you seek a job you don’t say I made $xxx,xxx by factoring in the provided benefits you’d be laughed off every interview . As someone with most of the same benefits you receive a year end statement bloating your yearly total value entirely . I would never state that as my salary because it isn’t. If you left McDonalds at $15 an hour and said you made $25 because they provided health insurance and told Sonic you needed $25 an hour to come onboard they’d slam the door in your face . Once you leave the military and government segment and they convince you those benefits are only available from them you find out a fair amount of employers provide the same or similar without cost to the employer.

Coming from similar benefits if I were talking to a new provider I would state my current salary and mention I also receive xx,xxx in benefits . It would be tough to leave “xyz” without equal benefits and pay . Then you just weigh the perspective benefits package versus your current one but to expect it in salary I think is misleading . If clodhopper said I can’t pay you 85k a year to start but I can pay you 65k salary with health, vision , dental , retirement and their is no employee contribution that would be acceptable .

We had the same opinion on the first page you just took my late night internet search very serious for whatever reason . It did state however $316 a month for food on multiple military websites and $15xx a month for housing at my location which is nowhere near the 39k.
 
DRTDEVL said:
That is highly industry dependent.

In my industry, ground transportation and logistics, many drivers do better staying at one company for a very long time because not only do they get their longevity raises, but anytime a pay scale jumps, their pay jumps with the scale. Jumping to another company only puts them back at the bottom of the totem pole.

In my case, I started as an hourly, part-time driver, but then accepted a full-time office position that was salary, only to fall ill and disappear for a while. I was then offered to return part-time as my condition slowly improved, but was placed in an hourly status again (dividing the new salary by 2080 and rounding up to the nearest dollar). Once I could return to the office full time, I went back to salary. Just over a year later, I interviewed for, and accepted, a huge promotion. If I were to convert my starting pay to full-time and compare it to my current salary, my pay has increased roughly 150% in 5 years, all with the same employer.

Sometimes staying with the same employer works to an individual's favor, provided there is room for advancement within the company. In less than 5 years, I moved from the very bottom of the totem pole all the way to the 4th person in the hierarchy of the company. Not seniority, hierarchy. The only people above me are the Owner/CEO, President/COO, and the VP/Sales. Every driver in the company answers to me along with the advertising staff and recruiting staff. The Operations Manager does not directly report to me, but must follow my directive. The accounting department head also does not directly report to me, but must follow my directive. The Shop Foreman does not report to me, either, but must follow my directive in the Fleet Management perspective. The only person in charge of anything who I don't direct is the IT guy... Although I have been known to order him around a time or two.:laughing:

TL;DR: Company loyalty can pay off from time to time. I don't see myself going anywhere before retirement.
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How big of a fleet?

Similar career paths only my start was as a technician .
 
Can you really expect to hire anyone worth a shit for less than $100k??
 
DRTDEVL said:
When I started it was 118 power units, it is 126 now.
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That would be comfy! My original fleet fluctuated from 930-1000 depending on new vehicle deployments and disposals. Currently leading the deployment preparations and team management of a program to manage the entire nationwide fleet which is over 300 times that size. It’s been insane.
 
every single person I knew that went into the military was going going to the military, they were running from something else
 
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