What's new
By:
Filters

MedVac Flight down

ThePanzerFuhrer said:
I’m guessing overspeed, or high g’s from the spacial disorientation caused the plane to come apart. Parts were only found 3/4 of a mile away. They were all ready crashing when the shit came apart.
Click to expand...

Kyle said:
They exceeded the flight envelope and pulled parts off.
Click to expand...

Nuts so the pilot took the plane off autopilot or the autopilot turned off for some reason and it was driving into the ground when the parts came off, leading to the spiral into the ground?
 
Weasel said:
Nuts so the pilot took the plane off autopilot or the autopilot turned off for some reason and it was driving into the ground when the parts came off, leading to the spiral into the ground?
Click to expand...
Eh the pilot got lost and pulled tight. I’m trying to re link the video.



Skip the ad.
 
IEATRKS84 said:
Not what the NTSB said. Break up before loss of control. Gonna be maintenance related,
Click to expand...


The NTSB didn’t say one way or the other. Wingtips and stabs do not generally fall off due to MX.

Parts breaking off the aircraft in that dive is expected IMO.
 
Last edited:
IEATRKS84 said:
Not what the NTSB said. Break up before loss of control. Gonna be maintenance related,
Click to expand...

They haven't ruled out either, overstress was the first cause he mentioned. I guess I'd be surprised if it was maintenance as the medical planes seem to be petty well kept up.

I don't review them all but seems most of the medical care accidents, very few are maintenance related.

Kyle said:
Eh the pilot got lost and pulled tight. I’m trying to re link the video.



Skip the ad.
Click to expand...


Yeah along the lines of what I was getting from the feeds as well.
 
Mike Honcho said:
Another PC-12 crash? Shocker...
Click to expand...
Single pilot single engine.

Hopefully this pushes the FAA to put stronger rules on medevac.

I think the estimates are off though on schedules or not necessary flights, I think it’s more in the 70% range. These operators make money hand over fist flying flights. It’s not a public service it’s a cash cow.
 
Kyle said:
Single pilot single engine.

Hopefully this pushes the FAA to put stronger rules on medevac.

I think the estimates are off though on schedules or not necessary flights, I think it’s more in the 70% range. These operators make money hand over fist flying flights. It’s not a public service it’s a cash cow.
Click to expand...
what's the cost to saving a life worth though? That's what the medical folks push. Add another engine and pilot and you've tripled the cost (wag).

Does a second pilot really eliminate that risk?

That video sucked :flipoff2: drives the point home pretty well. So the pilot didn't trust his instrument telling him to level the plane, stalled one side into a downward spiral? In the video. I imagine sub drivers would be good pilots.
 
Weasel said:
what's the cost to saving a life worth though? That's what the medical folks push. Add another engine and pilot and you've tripled the cost (wag).

Does a second pilot really eliminate that risk?

That video sucked :flipoff2: drives the point home pretty well. So the pilot didn't trust his instrument telling him to level the plane, stalled one side into a downward spiral? In the video. I imagine sub drivers would be good pilots.
Click to expand...

Medical people are idiots when it comes to aviation.

A 600 mile trip will bill like $80k a second pilot would be 87k annually starting pay.

A twin wouldn’t cost much more to operate. The plane and pilot are the cheap part of medevac. The med equipment and nurses are VERY expensive. Like the nurse can make more on a shift than the operating costs of our jet on a trip.

The insurance companies run risk assessments. 2 crew is so much safer that the data isn’t even quantifiable in alot of cases because there isn’t an accident to even report. Let’s use this crash as an example, two crew, the pilots converse and decline the trip. Or the pilots decide to fly a different route. Or let’s say they did start into a spatial disorientation situation and the second pilot caught it before the plane even banked 10 degrees. They continue on and land without incident and no one was ever made aware other than the 5 seconds it took to recognize and fix. The other guy in the cockpit changes the whole environment just forcing you to talk through stuff sometimes.

I flew two crew and I would guess at least once per flight or more we worked as a crew and caught small errors. Not that the error would cause an accident but that starts the accident chain. You catch it and move on. A simple mistake like putting in the wrong altitude into the auto pilot could end in disaster if not caught but two crew it’s a 1 second correction and move on. Especially at 2am flying in less than ideal weather. So when two crew have a crash it’s a big deal.

In a single pilot environment any mistake even a small one can end up catastrophic very quickly. So add in weather, pressure to fly because of the mission or the company and lack of experience like most single pilot medevac guys are and it’s a recipe for disaster. Even in private aviation there are far more single pilot accidents than two crew.
 
That audio is pretty rough.

I read elsewhere that the legacy auto pilot on the PC12 disconnects at the slightest bump.
 
Wasn't that first right turn not in the flight plan? What if something went wrong with the plane, maybe just something with the tail/elevator. Plane turns to right, pilot corrects, then the plane decides enough is enough and spirals down - again to the right.

Do the timelines support this scenario?
 
WLDWUN said:
a flat no on more regulations
Click to expand...
You obviously don’t aviation. The entire business is regulations. IFR capable dual pilot rotorcraft will be mandatory in time, as will twin engine fixed wings

Interestingly enough, you’re probably safer now than ever to fly single engine/single pilot.
 
plym49.2 said:
Wasn't that first right turn not in the flight plan? What if something went wrong with the plane, maybe just something with the tail/elevator. Plane turns to right, pilot corrects, then the plane decides enough is enough and spirals down - again to the right.

Do the timelines support this scenario?
Click to expand...

NTSB will not be ruling out mechanical failure anytime soon. It’s just something uncommon versus something rather common.
 
Bacho said:
That audio is pretty rough.

I read elsewhere that the legacy auto pilot on the PC12 disconnects at the slightest bump.
Click to expand...
the few that I have been involved in (two) both of them disconnected when turbulence gets a bit bumpy. But there is a audio tone to let you know that auto is going away
 
Kyle said:
All PC12 have boots on the wings and tail, electric heated props and exhaust heated engine intake lip with a particle separator for the engine intake.

I wonder if he departed with contaminated wings? The “pressure” to fly is pretty great for medevac and if you aren’t strong enough to say no it’s very easy to be pressured into taking a flight that’s risky. Especially when companies aren’t able to staff pilots so they put pressure on the current ones to fly trips to keep the revenue coming in. And there isn’t the second pilot to work through the challenges with and say no. A good thing that’s going on in aviation is adopting the threat and error management philosophy. But it takes two pilots to do it effectively.
Click to expand...
Any info on how heavy the icing conditions were?
Boots have limitations on how heavy of icing they'll handle. I'm not a pilot myself but as a maintainer I've spoken to several who have experienced either bridging or thick enough ice that boots can't shift it in heavy icing conditions. The only solution is to keep your speed up, keep any banking as shallow as possible and get out of the icing ASAP.
 
DirtRoads said:
You obviously don’t aviation. The entire business is regulations. IFR capable dual pilot rotorcraft will be mandatory in time, as will twin engine fixed wings

Interestingly enough, you’re probably safer now than ever to fly single engine/single pilot.
Click to expand...
you obviously don't English :flipoff2:

you are right the entire aviation field is regulations. on both the equipment and the pilots
all I am saying is more regulations are not the best solution.
 
You can't let a serious crisis go to waste....

www.kolotv.com

3 of 4 Care Flight rotor wing aircraft return to service

Three of four of REMSA’s Care Flight rotor wing aircraft have returned to service, they said in a release Thursday.
www.kolotv.com www.kolotv.com
Three of four of REMSA’s Care Flight rotor wing aircraft have returned to service, REMSA said in a release Thursday.

They returned to service following a pause of their medical transport service on Feb. 24 after the crash of a Care Flight near Stagecoach that killed five.

The fourth aircraft will be brought into service aligned with staffing, maintenance and other operational needs. The company did not provide a timeline for resuming fixed-wing medical transport service.

Ground ambulance services have continued to operate without interruption.
Click to expand...
 
DirtRoads said:
What do you mean? I’m sure the feds were investigating this entire operation, that takes a while to get squared away.
Click to expand...
They never did the inspections before, or they’re doing a more detailed inspection. If they’d been doing this all along they might have grounded TWO planes and 5 people would be alive. It’s more reactive than proactive.
 
What would they have grounded the planes for? By all appearances this was pilot error.
 
WLDWUN said:
you obviously don't English :flipoff2:

you are right the entire aviation field is regulations. on both the equipment and the pilots
all I am saying is more regulations are not the best solution.
Click to expand...
Typically I agree, except when it comes to Aviation safety and forcing operators to comply. Medevac nearly 100% of the time the customer/patient doesn’t have a choice, and the operators best interest is NOT the customer/patient.


In other news another medevac helicopter crashed today in North Carolina. No one was killed thank goodness. EC135 it looks like.

Medevac is dangerous so risk should absolutely be mitigated.
 
Bacho said:
What would they have grounded the planes for? By all appearances this was pilot error.
Click to expand...
FAA found something they were unhappy with and shut the operation down? It wouldn't even necessarily have to be aircraft/maintenance related. It could be down to lack of staffing, poor processes, procedures not being followed, a ton of stuff really.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh