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MCI 102-C3 coach to RV - Chassis/Suspension

aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
Not that I’m aware of. A couple people told me that the DD3 style I have isn’t the one you can cage. These have the sprag type clutch that holds them. I could have put air pressure to the lock ports to release them, but the two nuts on each chamber only took a couple minutes.​
You learn something new every day... I thought that all brake chambers were setup to be cagable.
https://www.bendixvrc.com/itemDispla...ocumentID=2393

Aaron Z
 
It’s been a minute. The bus has been cleared out and ready to tow for a couple weeks. Today is the day. We’re taking a dump truck down to pull the bus along 20ish miles of flat, dirt road.
 
Java said,
JNHEscher said:
It’s been a minute. The bus has been cleared out and ready to tow for a couple weeks. Today is the day. We’re taking a dump truck down to pull the bus along 20ish miles of flat, dirt road.​
Good luck, that should be entertaining!
 
Without a hitch. Hooked up, did 20mph all the way and pushed it the last few feet into the driveway. To be continued.

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All six hundred and sixty six of them. I’d be under it to bolt the brake chambers back on if we weren’t enjoying another dust storm today.
 
Aside from the curbside brake chamber being fully torqued, the brakes are back on. The nuts were rusted to the studs on the curbside chamber, so the studs came out when I dropped the brakes. The nuts are fine thread, making them easy to wrench. The studs are very coarse, making reinstalling from underneath bloody hell.

I will brag a hair and say that relocating the rear air tank was a splendid idea. I was able to shimmy under the bus and sit up in between the rearmost storage bay wall and the drive axle to complete the task without raising anything. Cozy.

The wind calmed just enough to make this doable. And when I was nearly finished, a gust blew some fire ants in with me. Their bites feel like rubbing alcohol on a fresh cut.

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Set the plasma back up and knocked out the center of the rusty 8.25” wheel. Left one hand hole as a handle. I’ll be welding a heavy duty foot onto this to make a beefy jack stand that bolts to any hub. Once we get new wheels and tires in, I’ll make another and probably weld two centers together to double their capacity. These wheels themselves have a 7,000 pound capacity and I suspect the flat center holds less on its own.

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Elwenil said,

A single center should be plenty if the bus is level and stationary. It should have no issues supporting the weight the wheel normally supports since it's basically what attaches the wheel to the vehicle. The fact that the rest of the wheel is not there should not matter since all it needs is the hub and lug nuts to do what it does normally. Now how the rest of the stand is made may compromise it, but unless you completely fawk it up, it should do fine for it's intended purpose. I doubt I would even go that elaborate with it, depending on the hub design.
 
I don’t have any guarantee that the bus will be level when I need the stand. The center is 3/8” thick. With eight more wheels to work with, it wouldn’t hurt to double up the center thickness for some more capacity.
 
Off topic again - I did a quick drawing of an adapter for the leveling cylinders to ball joints. All suppliers appear to be out of 4x18x2 cylinders. I think I can make a 20” stroke cylinder fit.

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aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
Off topic again - I did a quick drawing of an adapter for the leveling cylinders to ball joints. All suppliers appear to be out of 4x18x2 cylinders. I think I can make a 20” stroke cylinder fit.​
I cant remember, are you going with a cylinder with a threaded end? Are you welding the adapter on, threading it, or?

Aaron Z
 
A threaded rod cylinder would certainly make the adapter easier to design. I’ve been looking at clevis end cylinders and would be pulling the rod clevis off and cutting the base clevis off. A press-on adapter would work fine until the foot got stuck to the ground. Maybe drill and tap the end of the rod and weld a threaded stud within the adapter. Kinda hate to modify any cylinder too much.

Edit: I don’t recall ever pulling a clevis off a larger cylinder so I was thinking the clevis was just clamped. If they’re threaded on and clamped like a tie rod adjuster, then hell yeah. I’ll look into that.
 
CarterKaft said,
JNHEscher said:
A threaded rod cylinder would certainly make the adapter easier to design. I’ve been looking at clevis end cylinders and would be pulling the rod clevis off and cutting the base clevis off. A press-on adapter would work fine until the foot got stuck to the ground. Maybe drill and tap the end of the rod and weld a threaded stud within the adapter. Kinda hate to modify any cylinder too much.

Edit: I don’t recall ever pulling a clevis off a larger cylinder so I was thinking the clevis was just clamped. If they’re threaded on and clamped like a tie rod adjuster, then hell yeah. I’ll look into that.​
Every AG type clevis cylinder rod I have ran into was threaded and clamped like tie rod end. You should be able to remove the clevis and attach what ever you like if it's threaded the same.
 
aczlan said,
CarterKaft said:
Every AG type clevis cylinder rod I have ran into was threaded and clamped like tie rod end. You should be able to remove the clevis and attach what ever you like if it's threaded the same.​
Yep, that is how all the ag type ones are.

Aaron Z
 
aczlan said:
CarterKaft said:
Every AG type clevis cylinder rod I have ran into was threaded and clamped like tie rod end. You should be able to remove the clevis and attach what ever you like if it's threaded the same.​
Yep, that is how all the ag type ones are.

Aaron Z​
Been years and I had totally forgotten that. Been looking at the Magister clevis cylinder chart and the rod thread is right on it. 1.25-12 on a 2” rod which means making an adapter is even simpler than I anticipated.

Had to browse the earlier sections of the thread to remember exactly what I measured. I really need to double check it, but am sure I needed an 18” stroke in order to get 1” or so clearance between the ground and tires. At the rear, I have 27” between the jack point and highest point at which a cylinder can be stuffed. The ball joint cup and taper measure right around 3.75”.
 
Pestering Magister tomorrow about cylinder availability. I would prefer a 4” bore for the extra load capacity and 2” rod for anti-chicken leg. 18” stroke collapsed length with clevises removed and foot installed is the perfect height. I have a tub full of 1.25”-12 rod ends and bungs. Ecodynamics has a rack full of DOM odds and ends.

I called Surplus Center the other day about the Wolverine 4x18x2 clevis cylinder. They only had one in stock when I was digging into this earlier this year. I was told it would take them months to send another the way it’s been going with cylinders made overseas and apparently the 18” stroke model is uncommon. I must have a hankering for exotic pieces and parts.

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Jcparmleyp said,

You say you have 27 inches is at the highest point. I am assuming before you hit the floor? What if you were to have the top of the cylinder protrude up into the framing? It looks like you have some more space between inside the framing or am I not envisioning that correctly?
JNHEscher said:
Been years and I had totally forgotten that. Been looking at the Magister clevis cylinder chart and the rod thread is right on it. 1.25-12 on a 2” rod which means making an adapter is even simpler than I anticipated.

Had to browse the earlier sections of the thread to remember exactly what I measured. I really need to double check it, but am sure I needed an 18” stroke in order to get 1” or so clearance between the ground and tires. At the rear, I have 27” between the jack point and highest point at which a cylinder can be stuffed. The ball joint cup and taper measure right around 3.75”.​
 
Jcparmleyp said:
You say you have 27 inches is at the highest point. I am assuming before you hit the floor? What if you were to have the top of the cylinder protrude up into the framing? It looks like you have some more space between inside the framing or am I not envisioning that correctly?
JNHEscher said:
Been years and I had totally forgotten that. Been looking at the Magister clevis cylinder chart and the rod thread is right on it. 1.25-12 on a 2” rod which means making an adapter is even simpler than I anticipated.

Had to browse the earlier sections of the thread to remember exactly what I measured. I really need to double check it, but am sure I needed an 18” stroke in order to get 1” or so clearance between the ground and tires. At the rear, I have 27” between the jack point and highest point at which a cylinder can be stuffed. The ball joint cup and taper measure right around 3.75”.​
27” is correct. That’s between the underside of some subframing and where flush with the jack point is. I’ll get some more pictures shortly to better explain it.

Headed to Kansas bright and early to pick up our radiator cores. Freight was $300. Our fuel cost will be half or less than that.
 
Late response. Wanted to get back about space for mounting leveling jack cylinders. This is what I was talking about as far as distance allowing cylinder fitment in this location. 26-3/4" actual distance between the upper section of the suspension frame and the bottom of the jack point. This is a pretty tight spot for a jack.

There's a ton of room inboard of the tag axle tires behind the air bag and brake chamber. Just no structure unless I build something massive than can support the weight of the bus. I'll figure all that out later on.

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And for a little more conversation, some wheel and tire and axle stuff I’ve been working on. While sitting around, waiting for everyone to get their shit together on this house closing, I started browsing AxleTech 4000’s, XDN 2’s and wheels to combine the two.

Got a couple lines on axles. The Michelin’s are awfully pricey, but I’m all over that tread. Numerous calls lead me to Wheels Now Inc. who happened to have the prints for steels in 22.5x9 and 22.5x14 with the 10 on 335mm bolt pattern to fit AT’s. I’m sure I’ll be labeled is nuts for this, but air lockers, man. Can’t help it. Kasey at Wheels Now sent me the drawing a for the wheels and I dialed them in with SketchUp.

I had a good chat yesterday and today with the tech guy at AxleTech. Sent him a very heavily question-laden email with data plate pictures so he can give me a full-blown run down on dimensional data and brake operation. All I have at the moment are what I presume are rough dimensions.

And yeah, you’re seeing super singles in there. Deal with it lol.

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Mr. Mindless said,

Aren’t those only geared at 5.x:1?

There are lockers for normal truck axles available with normal gearing... I’d hate to see this become a crawler and lose highway usability.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
We're still talking about the bus, right?

You're off the deep end pal. Can't wait to see it come to life​
Lol yep. A little overboard. I’m still gathering info to decide if this is doable.
Mr. Mindless said:
Aren’t those only geared at 5.x:1?

There are lockers for normal truck axles available with normal gearing... I’d hate to see this become a crawler and lose highway usability.​
Correct. If this happens, I’ll explain it all. For now I’m just toying with parts availability and punching it all into CAD.
 
87manche said,

seems like going to axletech stuff removes you from the easy to get parts at any HDT shop along the way.
aren't they more of an industrial axle?
 
87manche said:
seems like going to axletech stuff removes you from the easy to get parts at any HDT shop along the way.
aren't they more of an industrial axle?​
They are more industrial versus the OTR Rockwell’s that are currently under it. That doesn’t worry me much. AxleTech has a really awesome parts and service manual portal and I’ll be keeping spares of critical parts which I plan to do for whatever our driveline is. Right now, I’m digging into park and service brake function, serviceability and force to be sure that they’re comparable to the Bendix setup we have now. The disc brakes are by far easier to work on.
 
CarterKaft said,

In my industrial equipment axletech experience they are terrible with parts.
Its possible we had some one off axles but they discontinued a entire axle in 7 machines one of my customers owned and said get bent when we needed internal parts.

I am soured on AxleTech...
 
CarterKaft said:
In my industrial equipment axletech experience they are terrible with parts.
Its possible we had some one off axles but they discontinued a entire axle in 7 machines one of my customers owned and said get bent when we needed internal parts.

I am soured on AxleTech...​
That blows, man. So far, so good on my end. I’m still contacting anyone in the know about the brakes. Trying to clarify if both the rigid and steer 4000’s had spring park brake chambers. I’d like to find an actual picture. I see them on the rigids, but only a hint on steers.
 
This right here is what I am ever so inquisitive about. Two ports on the Haldex brake chamber suggesting that it functions as both a service brake and a spring brake, yet I can’t tell what the part number is and have yet to get a solid answer. The Haldex service manual from AxleTech doesn’t quite duplicate this setup. Looks a bit small, too.

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327601029E might be the part number for the two-port chamber I’m seeing on all the 4000’s. However, neither that number nor that chamber shows up in any AxleTech manual except for one small caging instruction in the ISAS 4000 manual. Sure looks like front and rear axle calipers are the same and that the chambers are swappable between the two. Should know for sure by Monday. Haven’t been able to garner info off of PBB because most everyone immediately debrakes their axles.

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