M-Block Serp Belts

[OX1]

Up until the other day, I would have never said a Mk VII, if someone asked me what fox bodies EVER came with a 351W. But

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Editor in Chief: Scott Nonnenman (Proud GTC owner since 2004)

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What interested me is that serp idler pulley, that looks identical to the M-Block AC idler.
Did Ford use that somewhere else? Pretty sure Volvo had Serp Yorks at some point.

I'm not real up on early 80's truck/bronco belt setups, maybe it was a one year thing I missed.

 

[reptillikus]

Looking at that one pic from the top down, it looks like it's 1 or 2 serp, plus I see a v-belt hidden down on the driver side for the p.steering pump I think. It looks like the truck 2G alt plus bracket, but it doesn't look like the pulley for the a/c compressor lines up with it, which is why I'm thinking 2 serp belts. Some kinda bastard setup for sure.


In trucks 85 was v-belt. 86 was efi for the 302 but I think it was still v-belt.
87 was efi/serp for 300/302. 88 was efi/serp for the 351/460. It didn't look like that setup though. It was the same stuff from 87-91. I think in 92 it changed slightly but don't quote me on that one. Somewhere in the 90s they switched to the 3G alt and the second idler, I think 94. Even the bracketry for the 460 changed when it went 3G.

Some of the idlers are just pulleys and bolts; is possible there's a serp idler that will swap in place of a v-belt one.

 

[arse_sidewards]

 

[arse_sidewards]

Even the bracketry for the 460 changed when it went 3G.

It didn't have to though. Per the various 3g alt conversion guides (though it's been well over a decade since I've read one) there's a lot of cases where, depending on what vehicle you're looking to put one into, you simply get a 3G alt from the "wrong" application and it either "just works" or you have to swap pulley or run a shorter/longer belt or something like that.

I wanna say a certain 00s Taurus is a drop in for 300 and 460 trucks but I'm not 100% on that.

 

[OX1]

Found it. Was originally used on an 84ish Crown Vic 5.8
(although after 83, sounds like the W was only fleet or Canada sales)

It's the dual 3G's that seem to always need belts. Better now with turnbuckle on
main alt, Would be nice to get more bite when using winch or using inverter to
chargeg on board welder (etc..) I'd be fine with keeping V on PS pump
(which does not seem to slip)

Basically, think I could do it with just custom crank pulley.
Back in the day, I had an alum pulley made to add a blower to my
GT40 5.8 OMC boat engine (which used V-'s still, even in 1994).
It had 3 V grooves and then a 7 rib out front.

Wonder if that company is still around. or maybe I can redrill that crown vic pulley (if I can find one)
to match M balancer or even a balancer made for both engines

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[reptillikus]

Wow, that looks needlessly complicated

I wanna say a certain 00s Taurus is a drop in for 300 and 460 trucks but I'm not 100% on that.

Thats true, i did it on mine way back in the day (88 460). A few years back i got a 97 460 for parts, and the accessory drive bracket was different, as was the tensioner bracket for the alt. I dunno why Ford thought they needed to change, but they did.

 

[OX1]

Wow, that looks needlessly complicated

Yeah, but a single belt on an M won't work easily, some stuff would be going backwards (unless you use tons of idlers).

Ford 351 Cleveland All Inclusive Style Track Serpentine System w/ AC

All Inclusive Style Track Serpentine System for Ford 351 Cleveland Engines

marchperformance.com

 

[reptillikus]

EFI 460 is dual serp belt but i doubt the brackets would fit the 351/400.


Did some digging, looks like you can use some Crown Vic parts:

Ford 400 / 351C / 351M Serpentine Conversion - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks - Ford 400 / 351C / 351M Serpentine Conversion - Disclaimer – The information below has been provided as a courtesy to other users. I am not guaranteeing anything with the information below. The information below has not been verified for its longevity...

www.ford-trucks.com

The pulleys in the pics for the crank & water pump dont look much different than what Ford used on the EFI 460s. EFI 460 uses the same crank pulley 88-97, but the water pump pulley changes depending on early/late efi. i have a late EFI pulley sitting on the shelf because im using the early one (the water pump changed in ~92 when Ford switched from an external air oil cooler to a coolant based oil cooler). I might have a crank pulley too.


old pic from when i got my 460 way back when:

 

[OX1]

EFI 460 is dual serp belt but i doubt the brackets would fit the 351/400.


Did some digging, looks like you can use some Crown Vic parts:

Ford 400 / 351C / 351M Serpentine Conversion - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks - Ford 400 / 351C / 351M Serpentine Conversion - Disclaimer – The information below has been provided as a courtesy to other users. I am not guaranteeing anything with the information below. The information below has not been verified for its longevity...

www.ford-trucks.com

The pulleys in the pics for the crank & water pump dont look much different than what Ford used on the EFI 460s. EFI 460 uses the same crank pulley 88-97, but the water pump pulley changes depending on early/late efi. i have a late EFI pulley sitting on the shelf because im using the early one (the water pump changed in ~92 when Ford switched from an external air oil cooler to a coolant based oil cooler). I might have a crank pulley too.


old pic from when i got my 460 way back when:

Still be missing my 2nd 3G in AC spot. Maybe one idler on drvs' side of water pump, then up to
3G, than back down to PS pump??

But thanks for the link. Gets me 3/4's there.

 

[reptillikus]

Extra idler, or auto belt tensioner. The 460 uses a dual belt water pump pulley so the belt goes up from the crank to the water pump, straight over to the belt tensioner, and then up to the a/c compressor and down to the p.steering pump.
You can kinda see it here from when i first did the 460 swap

You dont necessarily need that tensioner there, you could go right to the alt, if youre planning on a manual belt tensioner for the driver side. It doesnt have to have great engagement on the water pump since the other belt is driving it. Youre just using the water pump as your idler for your second 3G.

There are two different 460 water pump pulley, with slightly different offset (its ~1/8")

They have slightly different bolt spacing as well, but you could easily slip it over the water pump shaft and redrill if it was the wrong pattern. Somewhere in a notebook in the garage i have the dimensions of the two. im running the early model pulley on mine, but ive got the late model pulley in the garage somewhere.

 

[no class]

351W in the Crown Vic was part of a tow package and can easily be distinguished from a regular 302 by the dual tail pipes. From what I'm told it wasn't a very popular option.