Let's Argue About Roll Cages

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

The introduction of the tube bender has set back cage design about 40 years. It weakens the structural integrity of tube. It doesn’t allow for proper node placement. It has become such a predominant tool in fab that people have been close minded to all the other methods of fabrication with tube.
There is a time and place for a bend or a slight bend more like a roll bend. Aerodynamics, arched bridges, arched semi trailer, cattle gates, fluid lines, and economics are proof that there is a time and place for a bend.
I personally gave an Irate salute to the tube bender sitting on the floor when setting out on a no bend chassis.
The best thing that could have happened to the tube bender was the introduction of the tube laser. The ease of miter joints has slowly killed off the over application of bends.

 

[JR4X]

The introduction of the tube bender has set back cage design about 40 years. It weakens the structural integrity of tube. It doesn’t allow for proper node placement. It has become such a predominant tool in fab that people have been close minded to all the other methods of fabrication with tube.
There is a time and place for a bend or a slight bend more like a roll bend. Aerodynamics, arched bridges, arched semi trailer, cattle gates, fluid lines, and economics are proof that there is a time and place for a bend.
I personally gave an Irate salute to the tube bender sitting on the floor when setting out on a no bend chassis.
The best thing that could have happened to the tube bender was the introduction of the tube laser. The ease of miter joints has slowly killed off the over application of bends.

Got any bendless tube chassis pics I won’t think are choppy and ugly?

 

[CDA 455 II]

I'm 5'8"
My failgear interior cage in the 1st gen taco was cramped... 6'4" and 2" tube is gunna be a sardine can.
You gotta extra cab I hope

 

[Sean]

Got any bendless tube chassis pics I won’t think are choppy and ugly?

From his Dust Buggy build thread. Personally....I prefer the aesthetics of bends and while I know bending weakens the tube, the question is really...how much? Plenty of very hard rolls have tested properly designed bent tubing cages over the years and they haven't disintegrated at the bends.

Do I think his buggy looks fantastic? Hell yes. Do I want to build one without bends to sacrifice form for more 'function'? Not really....right or wrong, I still have a certain look I'm after and I don't believe I'm really sacrificing much in terms of strength for a low speed crawler to get it.

 

[JR4X]

From his Dust Buggy build thread. Personally....I prefer the aesthetics of bends and while I know bending weakens the tube, the question is really...how much? Plenty of very hard rolls have tested properly designed bent tubing cages over the years and they haven't disintegrated at the bends.

Do I think his buggy looks fantastic? Hell yes. Do I want to build one without bends to sacrifice form for more 'function'? Not really....right or wrong, I still have a certain look I'm after and I don't believe I'm really sacrificing much in terms of strength for a low speed crawler to get it.

The thread title says let’s argue about it and I will.

Is it proved that bending tube weakens the tube? Yep. Is it also ok to build a cage with bends that is more than plenty strong enough to hold it off your head in a roll? Also yep. I prefer the look of nice bends and I am more than willing to strap into chassis made of bent tube and go crash it at 100 mph.

I can be seen taking a slam directly to the top corner of the a-pillar at 69 mph in the pinned roll cage thread and that car is still intact.

A trail car that’s more likely to just get flopped or rolled at zero mph is probably going to be just fine with bends as long as… the material choice is sufficient. The triangulation is sufficient. The tie in points are sufficient. The noding is sufficient.

 

[Sean]

The thread title says let’s argue about it and I will.

Is it proved that bending tube weakens the tube? Yep. Is it also ok to build a cage with bends that is more than plenty strong enough to hold it off your head in a roll? Also yep. I prefer the look of nice bends and I am more than willing to strap into chassis made of bent tube and go crash it at 100 mph.

I can be seen taking a slam directly to the top corner of the a-pillar at 69 mph in the pinned roll cage thread and that car is still intact.

A trail car that’s more likely to just get flopped or rolled at zero mph is probably going to be just fine with bends as long as… the material choice is sufficient. The triangulation is sufficient. The tie in points are sufficient. The noding is sufficient.

100% in agreement. Maybe it's but I like nice looking shit. I guess it's why I like fake boobs too, lol.

 

[JR4X]

Another thing to note. I’ve seen plenty of cage “failures”. It’s never been a bend that was a problem. It’s always been straight unsupported sections that gave way, and tearing at the HAZ next to a weld. A bend is my least concern on someone’s cage design

 

[Clb]

Seems like a good time to throw in some top hydro, and maybe fighter jet design

 

[Billybadass411]

What happened to the pinned roll cage thread? I don’t see it anymore.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Another thing to note. I’ve seen plenty of cage “failures”. It’s never been a bend that was a problem. It’s always been straight unsupported sections that gave way, and tearing at the HAZ next to a weld. A bend is my least concern on someone’s cage design

That's all I've ever seen for cage failures as well.

And shitty cage designs...... Lots of those out there with piles of tube in them yet almost zero triangulation.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

What happened to the pinned roll cage thread? I don’t see it anymore.

Pinning a cage together is a bad idea, so that's probably why it went away.

 

[JR4X]

What happened to the pinned roll cage thread? I don’t see it anymore.

Roll Cage Failures

The "Minimalist Cage Designs" thread inspired me to create this thread. There were a few good cage failure threads on pirate and I always though they were quite interesting/eye opening. I am hoping this can become a sticky thread since this is an important topic and I think there is quite a lot...

irate4x4.com

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

Got any bendless tube chassis pics I won’t think are choppy and ugly?

Seems like most of the high dollar U4 and the desert guys only bend at the A pillar for looks and then have to come up with a crappy solution to make the gussets and roof line work.
Triton Engineering is by far my favorite designer and uses roll bends and tube bends tastefully.
If you want to see a train wreck of tube bending nightmares look at the rock bouncers. The shorter the roofs get the more head impacts and the more bends and the shorter the roof lines. It’s almost exponential. They are a dying breed by their own doing.

 

[JR4X]

Triton cars still have bends in them. I also love Triton stuff, it’s sexy, nice curves like a woman. This is a very new Triton chassis

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

They are gonna die.....

 

[JR4X]

I’m not afraid to eat shit in a Bomber either. Kinda on my bucket list to have one someday. These are also good looking cars I know can take a tumble, dust off and keep going

 

[mobil1syn]

Triton cars still have bends in them. I also love Triton stuff, it’s sexy, nice curves like a woman. This is a very new Triton chassis

they look good but my ptsd kicks in and all i see is a fuel cell notched for giant bypasses (notice the 5/8 hole), the radiator basically touching the shock mount, not sure where the fuel fill is going and limited access … it appears igor is still shoving 45.69lbs of stuff in a 2.5gal bucket.

 

[bdkw1]

they look good but my ptsd kicks in and all i see is a fuel cell notched for giant bypasses (notice the 5/8 hole), the radiator basically touching the shock mount, not sure where the fuel fill is going and limited access … it appears igor is still shoving 45.69lbs of stuff in a 2.5gal bucket.

So you're against efficient use of space?

 

[Sean]

If you want to see a train wreck of tube bending nightmares look at the rock bouncers. The shorter the roofs get the more head impacts and the more bends and the shorter the roof lines. It’s almost exponential. They are a dying breed by their own doing.

With you on the Bouncer thing....tube for the sake of tube...makes no sense in a lot of cases.

 

[Clb]

What is
"Inertial energy for A hundred Alex"????

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

From his Dust Buggy build thread. Personally....I prefer the aesthetics of bends and while I know bending weakens the tube, the question is really...how much? Plenty of very hard rolls have tested properly designed bent tubing cages over the years and they haven't disintegrated at the bends.

Do I think his buggy looks fantastic? Hell yes. Do I want to build one without bends to sacrifice form for more 'function'? Not really....right or wrong, I still have a certain look I'm after and I don't believe I'm really sacrificing much in terms of strength for a low speed crawler to get it.

Even with bends that buggy wouldn’t look cool. Cool was thrown out the window along with the bender. Now if I cut the the roof line down about a foot and take out the rear seat, people might take it serious.

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

Triton cars still have bends in them. I also love Triton stuff, it’s sexy, nice curves like a woman. This is a very new Triton chassis

Odd they are using such a massive CBR radiator with low output brushed fans and a thin shroud when Triton makes coolers and two high output brushless fans with a proper shroud and core would cool with near half the size.

 

[mobil1syn]

So you're against efficient use of space?

having spent a lot of time prepping a igor designed car that i had to pull the shocks to a steering pump out, i am suspect as hell with his designs being serviceable.

 

[mobil1syn]

Odd they are using such a massive CBR radiator with low output brushed fans and a thin shroud when Triton makes coolers and two high output brushless fans with a proper shroud and core would cool with near half the size.

cbr writes bigger checks

 

[arse_sidewards]

they look good but my ptsd kicks in and all i see is a fuel cell notched for giant bypasses (notice the 5/8 hole), the radiator basically touching the shock mount, not sure where the fuel fill is going and limited access … it appears igor is still shoving 45.69lbs of stuff in a 2.5gal bucket.

It's not notched for clearance. It's bumped out to take advantage of wasted space.

 

[Bebop]

having spent a lot of time prepping a igor designed car that i had to pull the shocks to a steering pump out, i am suspect as hell with his designs being serviceable.

Someone said : If you have a problem on race day, you're done anyway.
Same someone has a team of paid mechanics to worry about little things like changing a PS pump.



PS: Designs with no serviceability are the worst. Buggy I'm working on right now takes a combination of 3 swivels and 2 extensions to remove the spark plugs and its absolutely impossible to work on when hot. Dumb.

 

[JR4X]

Someone said : If you have a problem on race day, you're done anyway.
Same someone has a team of paid mechanics to worry about little things like changing a PS pump.



PS: Designs with no serviceability are the worst. Buggy I'm working on right now takes a combination of 3 swivels and 2 extensions to remove the spark plugs and its absolutely impossible to work on when hot. Dumb.

I’ve made some colossal serviceability mistakes on builds, because of that I watch who builds stuff with working on them in mind. At Reno finals one time my brother and I R&R’d a TH400 in a Tribe car in under an hour, a car we had never touched previously. The Penhall car right next to it was getting a trans too and they missed qualifying because it took like 6 hours for all hands on deck to R&R it. Joe Thompsons UFO’s are also extremely well built and easy to work on in a hurry.

 

[chaplinfj60]

Someone said : If you have a problem on race day, you're done anyway.
Same someone has a team of paid mechanics to worry about little things like changing a PS pump.



PS: Designs with no serviceability are the worst. Buggy I'm working on right now takes a combination of 3 swivels and 2 extensions to remove the spark plugs and its absolutely impossible to work on when hot. Dumb.

i messed up mine like this also. i can relate.

 

[Sean]

Even with bends that buggy wouldn’t look cool. Cool was thrown out the window along with the bender. Now if I cut the the roof line down about a foot and take out the rear seat, people might take it serious.

Meh...I like it. To each their own. 😉

 

[Arickvan]

From his Dust Buggy build thread. Personally....I prefer the aesthetics of bends and while I know bending weakens the tube, the question is really...how much? Plenty of very hard rolls have tested properly designed bent tubing cages over the years and they haven't disintegrated at the bends.

Do I think his buggy looks fantastic? Hell yes. Do I want to build one without bends to sacrifice form for more 'function'? Not really....right or wrong, I still have a certain look I'm after and I don't believe I'm really sacrificing much in terms of strength for a low speed crawler to get it.

Meh...I like it. To each their own. 😉

Even with bends that buggy wouldn’t look cool. Cool was thrown out the window along with the bender. Now if I cut the the roof line down about a foot and take out the rear seat, people might take it serious.

I'm with Sean, i dig it

ya its not a sleek and sexy corvette, its more of a pickup or 80's kinda sexy