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JDM engine vs 'higher' mileage used vs full rebuilt engine for 02 Tacoma 5vz(3.4)

Lil'John

Lil'John

Former #278
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I'm looking for some input on what the better approach for replacing my almost 300k 3.4L(5vz) in my 02 Tacoma 4wd Turd. I got the Tacoma used so only the last ~80k miles and they are kind of grim:homer:

Short: Is JDM worth going with over double miles of used or full rebuild?

Long with details:
My understanding is JDM engines are well under 100k miles from Japan. The one ad I took a mild look at said ~60k for ~$2500.

When I say 'higher' mileage, I'm talking ~120k to 150k miles. I wasn't paying much attention but I want to say ~$1500 with 90 day warranty... but I also didn't shop yet.

When I say full rebuilt, I'm talking about tracking down my own core then taking to machine shop or shipping it out. My quick browse showed ~$3500 not including the core. I haven't priced local shop yet.

I can't afford extra time down of swapping it out myself so I'd have a shop do it. The no extra time is also why I wouldn't just pull current engine for a rebuild... the last two engines I had rebuilt were 2-3 weeks each.

To head off probably the first reply, a new to me truck is out of the question. $5k-$6k won't buy me anything better than what I have(front suspension is basically new)
 
25-3500 engine for a 300k 21 year old truck engine and another 1000-2000 in labor to install it not to include the things that need replaced that go with every engine swap … personally I’d scrap/sell it but since it’s a Toyota somehow that makes it worth it …id buy a used engine and install it myself otherwise you’re spending more than the trucks worth when you could buy something else .


Side note : a locally rebuilt engine or even from a large rebuilder will never be 1/2 as durable or as long lived as a factory long lock so I always suggest the used engine, always .
 
Leadfoot21 said:
25-3500 engine for a 300k 21 year old truck engine and another 1000-2000 in labor to install it not to include the things that need replaced that go with every engine swap … personally I’d scrap/sell it but since it’s a Toyota somehow that makes it worth it …id buy a used engine and install it myself otherwise you’re spending more than the trucks worth when you could buy something else .


Side note : a locally rebuilt engine or even from a large rebuilder will never be 1/2 as durable or as long lived as a factory long lock so I always suggest the used engine, always .
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Miles are just a number on the dash and don't mean shit to some of us who aren't retarded. I've seen clapped out junk with 40k miles and pretty nice rigs with 300k+. Both my 90s vehicles are ~350k. The F350 is currently getting a newer engine swapped and the 4runner is still going strong and just went on a 500 mile highway/snow/dirt/crawling trip. If the motor blew tomorrow, I wouldn't feel bad about putting another one in it since I already know the axles and suspension are all newish and the rest is still decent.

Although I agree that, if the price starts creeping towards $6k, I might have to rethink the plan. No way I'd pay $2500 for a "jdm" engine. A good take out should be closer to $1000-1500 imo.
 
Personally I would go with a take out before a rebuild unless I actually wanted to change stuff.

What's wrong with the engine in the truck right now?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Miles are just a number on the dash and don't mean shit to some of us who aren't retarded. I've seen clapped out junk with 40k miles and pretty nice rigs with 300k+. Both my 90s vehicles are ~350k. The F350 is currently getting a newer engine swapped and the 4runner is still going strong and just went on a 500 mile highway/snow/dirt/crawling trip. If the motor blew tomorrow, I wouldn't feel bad about putting another one in it since I already know the axles and suspension are all newish and the rest is still decent.

Although I agree that, if the price starts creeping towards $6k, I might have to rethink the plan. No way I'd pay $2500 for a "jdm" engine. A good take out should be closer to $1000-1500 imo.
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I don’t disagree that miles can be considered insignificant if it’s something you never intend to part ways with . But, as a financially sensible adult that isn’t retarded every decision involving hard earned money should be looked at in terms of ROI. The simple fact of the matter is a 300k vehicle of any kind is nearly valueless to most and is much more likely to experience a plethora of other issues associated with a high mileage vehicle . All of those things should affect the amount of money you put into it . I wouldn’t spend the extra coin on JDM either . I would go on car-part.com and find the best one you can close to home and rock it . My .02
 
Leadfoot21 said:
I don’t disagree that miles can be considered insignificant if it’s something you never intend to part ways with . But, as a financially sensible adult that isn’t retarded every decision involving hard earned money should be looked at in terms of ROI. The simple fact of the matter is a 300k vehicle of any kind is nearly valueless to most and is much more likely to experience a plethora of other issues associated with a high mileage vehicle . All of those things should affect the amount of money you put into it . I wouldn’t spend the extra coin on JDM either . I would go on car-part.com and find the best one you can close to home and rock it . My .02
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In my opinion, that Era of tacoma is a very solid platform, same platform as my 4runner. At least for those of us that don't live in the rust belt. Assuming op feels the same way I do about my 4runner, it has a lot of life left in it. I know what has been fixed and what may need to be fixed. A new engine is penny's compared to a new truck that may not even be reliable either.

Regardless of brand, sometimes "the devil you know" is worth more than anything.
 
I personally think the whole JDM thing isn't what it's cracked up to be.

Forever, people believed there was a law in Japan that engines had to be removed at X number of miles. Idk who started that lie but it's not true. Yes I'm sure some have low miles but it's not like they hit 50k and get yanked

I would just rebuild what you have. Keep in mind though that Toyota engines HATE being opened up. And they hate napa parts and shit thrown at them. They are MUCH happier burning a quart of oil every thousand miles and leaking everywhere. Sounds dumb but it's true
 
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I personally think the whole JDM think isn't what it's cracked up to be.

Forever, people believed there was a law in Japan that engines had to be removed at X number of miles.
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Put me in that group :homer:

I thought it was a Tokyo emissions law to replace engines every 60k :laughing:

Add said:
I would just rebuild what you have. Keep in mind though that Toyota engines HATE being opened up. And they hate napa parts and shit thrown at them. They are MUCH happier buring a quart of oil every thousand miles and leaking everywhere. Sounds dumb but it's true
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I've noticed this too, seems like a lot of "rebuilt" Toyota engines are unreliable unless they come from a reputable builder.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Put me in that group :homer:

I thought it was a Tokyo emissions law to replace engines every 60k :laughing:



I've noticed this too, seems like a lot of "rebuilt" Toyota engines are unreliable unless they come from a reputable builder.
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jdm motor are usually double the advertised mileage or more.
Think about it, when was the last 5vzfe produced?
Do you really believe there are 60k mileage motors out there?

A known local junkyard takeout is a better option, , And the comment about junk parts is 100% true, Toyota's want Toyota parts in them, a local rebuilder is not using Toyota parts.

On my black Toyota I spent way way more than I'd like to admit, but I got an itemized list of Toyota parts from the rebuilder, bearing, gaskets, seals, every replaced part came from Toyota, And it shows.

YMMV.
JDM's are a gimmick, no way your finding a 60K mile motor that hasn't been used in anything in 20 years
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I believe you, just saying I bought it for all these years :laughing:

So are they actually just wrecked take outs with any random amount of miles just like a take out from the states?
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They have to pass other safety and integrity standards including interior. Once they start failing in other areas the vehicle usually just gets parted out
 
Jackie Treehorn said:
LS swap it.
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If this was even a remote "easy" possibility in the people's republic of Kalifornia, I'd consider it aside from extended downtime :/

Leadfoot21 I can spend ~$5k to $6k to swap in a "better" engine than what is in it. I'm not sure I can find anything any better for that same price range. This has zero to do with "financially sensible adult" as you put it. A sensible adult isn't going to spend $10k++++ to replace a truck that can be repaired for $6k and will last 100k++++. I'm of the mindset that until the interior turns to complete trash or the body/frame rusts out from under it, it will always be cheaper to repair than replace in the long run.

As someone else mentioned, there is the whole 'devil that you know' issue to it. To find an equivalent 'non-overly teched-up pile', I'm probably looking at $10k++++++ I have ZERO desire for any modern car with all the extra nav, touch screen, etc bull crap. Nevermind that to me, all new cars look the same(ugly as hell) There is a reason that my newest car is a 2002 with the next newest being 2000 and then straight to 1971:eek::lmao:

Back to general comments:
I recently(under 1k miles) had the whole front end rebuilt(ball joints, a-arms, bushings, etc) Struts are good with new bushings. The rear could probably use new shocks but not critical. I haven't checked spring bushings.

It sounds like the belief that JDM really means anything is a bit over rated aside from lower mileage.

I have zero attachment to the Tacoma... my wife might disagree with that:laughing::homer: I am just looking at it from a dollars and down time stand point. What can I buy that is better to MUCH better than replacing the engine. My belief is nothing.
 
Stingray said:
jdm motor are usually double the advertised mileage or more.
Think about it, when was the last 5vzfe produced?
Do you really believe there are 60k mileage motors out there?

A known local junkyard takeout is a better option, , And the comment about junk parts is 100% true, Toyota's want Toyota parts in them, a local rebuilder is not using Toyota parts.

On my black Toyota I spent way way more than I'd like to admit, but I got an itemized list of Toyota parts from the rebuilder, bearing, gaskets, seals, every replaced part came from Toyota, And it shows.

YMMV.
JDM's are a gimmick, no way your finding a 60K mile motor that hasn't been used in anything in 20 years
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Sometimes they're also posted with the kilometers on them not the miles. People tend to not look at that
 
What's actually wrong with yours?

I've got one with 290k on it that I've beaten the shit out of for the last 17 years and it's still running fine.

I bet you can get a used one cheap out of the northeast if you can deal with rusty bolts. The frames went to shit on them so there's a good number of junked 4runners out there that make good donors. Depends on the price of shipping of course.
 
Ranchtruck said:
What's actually wrong with yours?

I've got one with 290k on it that I've beaten the shit out of for the last 17 years and it's still running fine.

I bet you can get a used one cheap out of the northeast if you can deal with rusty bolts. The frames went to shit on them so there's a good number of junked 4runners out there that make good donors. Depends on the price of shipping of course.
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The truck runs pretty well... in fact, just past Calif smog with flying colors. But it has an 'odd' knock that I haven't diagnosed yet. I push the clutch in, the knock disappears. I leave the trans in neutral, there is the knock. I am preparing for the worst of a rod/crank knock since this year(2023) has been complete shit for me so far:homer::barf:

It could be as 'simple' as the clutch is junk. Or it could also be the trans... I had a 99 Taco that I bought new off the lot with a bad gear in it that I fought with the dealer to fix for 20k miles.

I will ignore the fact that the Taco feels WAY underpowered when compared to my 4.3L S10 truck that is roughly equivalent but with less mileage(2000 S10, 4wd, manual trans, ~130k miles) They are both supposed to be ~190hp but the 4.3L is supposed to have ~20ft-lbs more. But I'm talking seat of pants dyno difference is power "feel". I will grant you extra-cab(Tacoma) versus regular cab(S10) but both with 31s, 4wd, and manual trans.
 
I have bought and installed many JDM Subi engines and all have been in damn good shape. OEM filters, oem timing belts and very clean inside. Are some of them shit, I am sure they are, but the ones I have got have been great. Regarding the milage on the engines, Japan isn't as large of a country as the US, so obviously they would drive less. Also, it isn't "illegal" to have an old car, it's just very expensive and frowned upon by the gov. Motor-vehicle inspection (Japan) - Wikipedia
 
I'm a big fan of rebuilding what you've got. It will be far better than a junkyard swap and easier than anything else
 
Lil'John said:
The truck runs pretty well... in fact, just past Calif smog with flying colors. But it has an 'odd' knock that I haven't diagnosed yet. I push the clutch in, the knock disappears. I leave the trans in neutral, there is the knock. I am preparing for the worst of a rod/crank knock since this year(2023) has been complete shit for me so far:homer::barf:

It could be as 'simple' as the clutch is junk. Or it could also be the trans... I had a 99 Taco that I bought new off the lot with a bad gear in it that I fought with the dealer to fix for 20k miles.

I will ignore the fact that the Taco feels WAY underpowered when compared to my 4.3L S10 truck that is roughly equivalent but with less mileage(2000 S10, 4wd, manual trans, ~130k miles) They are both supposed to be ~190hp but the 4.3L is supposed to have ~20ft-lbs more. But I'm talking seat of pants dyno difference is power "feel". I will grant you extra-cab(Tacoma) versus regular cab(S10) but both with 31s, 4wd, and manual trans.
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Rod knock doesnt go away when you push the clutch pedal in :lmao:. If the engine has good oil pressure and doesnt consume excessive amounts of oil between changes its probably fine. If anything I'd say your noise is clutch related.
 
First, you should diagnose your current truck. An odd knock when you engage the clutch doesn't sound like a reason to rebuild.

Do a leak down test and a compression test. Then do an oil analysis. After that you can drop the pan and check main bearings.

if your heart set on a new engine I'd find a doner to swap in and rebuild yours. What's to say the engine you swap in will be better. The devil you know is that you have an engine in your truck that works.
 
Omfg, you likely don’t need an engine…… I guess you could always replace the engine you have but make sure you replace the clutch at the same time so you can claim the new engine fixed the problem
 
1981K20 said:
Umm...if the weird knock goes away when you engage the clutch I'm not sure swapping the engine will fix it. In my 1 ton CTD it was the throw out bearing causing it, the sound was confusing as it was internal but in the end it was the clutch components not the engine.
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Will12785 said:
First, you should diagnose your current truck. An odd knock when you engage the clutch doesn't sound like a reason to rebuild.

Do a leak down test and a compression test. Then do an oil analysis. After that you can drop the pan and check main bearings.

if your heart set on a new engine I'd find a doner to swap in and rebuild yours. What's to say the engine you swap in will be better. The devil you know is that you have an engine in your truck that works.
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Blacksheep10 said:
Omfg, you likely don’t need an engine…… I guess you could always replace the engine you have but make sure you replace the clutch at the same time so you can claim the new engine fixed the problem
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With my luck that has been ramming me non-stop with a ghost pepper coated cactus for six weeks, I'm not holding my breath at it not being the engine.:eek::emb: As noted, I haven't done a damn thing to diagnose what is going on yet. The engine does burn/leak oil

You are correct, a rod knock won't be on/off based upon clutch use. I think a main bearing knock would change based upon clutch use.

Clutch is already on the huge backlog of shit competing for time and money. I just recall hating dealing with it 20 years ago on the 99 Tacoma I bought new.:shaking: But this time, I've got a trans jack but I'll be doing it on rock:homer:
 
Lil'John said:
With my luck that has been ramming me non-stop with a ghost pepper coated cactus for six weeks, I'm not holding my breath at it not being the engine.:eek::emb: As noted, I haven't done a damn thing to diagnose what is going on yet. The engine does burn/leak oil

You are correct, a rod knock won't be on/off based upon clutch use. I think a main bearing knock would change based upon clutch use.

Clutch is already on the huge backlog of shit competing for time and money. I just recall hating dealing with it 20 years ago on the 99 Tacoma I bought new.:shaking: But this time, I've got a trans jack but I'll be doing it on rock:homer:
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it sounds like your back luck is going to be replacing the engine that's perfectly fine. at 300k the clutch is likely the culprit.

How much oil is it burning?
 
Will12785 said:
it sounds like your back luck is going to be replacing the engine that's perfectly fine. at 300k the clutch is likely the culprit.

How much oil is it burning?
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As noted in the post you quoted, I haven't diagnosed shit. This thread is me fishing for best approach if worst case happen. If best/safest approach is to do a full rebuild, I put a core engine and Yota factory build parts on my list of things to watch out for.

And for the record, I 100% appreciate ideas for diagnosing what my issue might really be.

On the oil burn/leak issue, I'd guess around 1 quart every five to six thousand miles last I checked... I haven't really measured it since I replaced the valve cover gaskets about two to three thousand miles ago. I believe it is mostly a leak as oil is coating the oilpan, rack, and sway bar. Changing the valve cover gaskets helped but there still appears to be a leak/burn.:homer:
 
I wouod check crank end play. Could be thrust bearings are wiped out. Could be trans or throwout bearing too.
 
What happened to the s10 you had?

Could help you out working on the truck in next month or two when I relocate to nor cal

Edit: I could look for similar truck, engine/trans combo locally and able bring it up to you, swap it out in few days of time. As long engine still as oil, it'll last long enough
 
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