Got an E-mail from BRC: Utah Claiming FLPMA Unconstitutional…

[FleshEater]

Even if the state isn't better it's much easier to influence them to not do bad shit than to not do bad shit than it is to exert the same pressure on the feds.

I don’t think so. To date Pennsylvania still has not done anything in favor of public motorized vehicle land access. There have been many attempts, but they all fail. Even with the promotion of reviving so many dying mountain towns, all they reply with is “erosion.”

These trails and public land access take a lot of money to maintain, and even more when your state has 2,500+/- miles of them. That cuts into state budgets. When it starts affecting a states budget closures will happen.

 

[JR4X]

I’m not educated enough to know how this mess works. Here’s what I think I know.

BLM land is still managed state by state and each state does it completely differently. I hate most things about the state of California but California BLM is a better agency than Utah BLM is. It’s the complete opposite of what I’d think give their two drastically different governments. California, Nevada and Colorado all 3 have better shared use management plan than Utah New Mexico and Arizona all three.

We just raced across Nevada, 555 miles on mostly blm land from west of Las Vegas to Carson. Right through cattle leases and on oilfield/geo thermal roads. Everyone knows about KOH and Azusa canyon etc. Colorado is still opening new trails every year.

Utah has the worst BLM management of the lot of them. They just want to shut more shit down like it’s an achievement to kick everyone off of it. Being a red state, one of the reddest there is you’d think it wouldn’t be so unfriendly to land use. But maybe my problem is that I don’t know the difference between liberal and conservative. It is impossible to do a KOH or V2R in the states of Utah New Mexico or Arizona even though they have as much if not more open space to do it. Those same shit states have ruined hunting for the average person as well.

 

[JR4X]

I’m sorry if it negatively effects someone who is benefiting from land they don’t own.

But I go back to “On what legitimate grounds does the federal government have rights to the land?

I mean it runs counter to the whole principle of having states”

I agree with that 100%. I just listened to a Nevada BLM guy tell us BLM land belongs to the people and we should all be able to use it.

Utah BLM couldn’t disagree more. They see it as federal land that they should keep us off of.

 

[CarterKraft]

If it ends up like the Texas lands OHV use is over...

 

[Provience]

If it ends up like the Texas lands OHV use is over...

Washington has a bunch of state owned land, used to be great access until the state got greedy, now they charge. Other than covid retardation and locking gates because ****s, it's still very open. Difference is you pay the state instead of feds for access/use

 

[CarterKraft]

Washington has a bunch of state owned land, used to be great access until the state got greedy, now they charge. Other than covid retardation and locking gates because ****s, it's still very open. Difference is you pay the state instead of feds for access/use

Texas has one? Federal land that allows OHV's?

 

[Provience]

Texas has one? Federal land that allows OHV's?

Washington is a closer approximation for what would happen in Utah than Texas. Texas was fenced much earlier on and has different use/combat to determine lines in the sand

 

[FleshEater]

Washington has a bunch of state owned land, used to be great access until the state got greedy, now they charge. Other than covid retardation and locking gates because ****s, it's still very open. Difference is you pay the state instead of feds for access/use

This is how a state will get the money to maintain the land. Or raise resident taxes. Then you get pissed off residents who vote to shut down costly land access.

The worst case of OHV is the Hatfield/McCoy trail system. $50 per rider (not vehicle). They strictly limit access and basically create a bunch of dirt roads for family friendly wheeling. Granted this is private, not state or federal, but one example of garbage management

 

[rockdog57]

If you’re not from here I don’t think you will understand Utah politics. Utah is a republican super majority state. The legislature here runs a balanced budget surplus every year. They refuse to spend money they don’t have. They also lean heavily conservative. There are commercials running right now on local tv stations showing a family in the seventies recreating on public lands. The kids from the same family take their kids to the same place they remember making memories and it’s locked up. The commercials are paid for by the state. Do you see why they are trying to do this?

JRX is spot on!!! BLM in Utah is closing access at an alarming rate. We wheel in Colorado and they are opening new trails. I mean damn hard trails. Their blm gets it that wheelers just need a place to recreate. That in a nutshell is why Utah is trying to gain control.

 

[FleshEater]

If you’re not from here I don’t think you will understand Utah politics. Utah is a republican super majority state. The legislature here runs a balanced budget surplus every year. They refuse to spend money they don’t have. They also lean heavily conservative. There are commercials running right now on local tv stations showing a family in the seventies recreating on public lands. The kids from the same family take their kids to the same place they remember making memories and it’s locked up. The commercials are paid for by the state. Do you see why they are trying to do this?

JRX is spot on!!! BLM in Utah is closing access at an alarming rate. We wheel in Colorado and they are opening new trails. I mean damn hard trails. Their blm gets it that wheelers just need a place to recreate. That in a nutshell is why Utah is trying to gain control.

Well if it’s a positive then I’m excited for it. Being so far removed it’s hard to know if this is good or bad.

 

['84 Bronco II]

You can really see all the easterners talking out their asses in this thread

I saw this same notice from BRC, and it concerns me greatly. Even more concerning is the way the BRC is spinning this as something positive. If BLM land is relinquished, the west will become just like the east with no legal places to wheel except small commercialized pieces of private property.

I guess you gotta live in Utah to understand this. People who have lived here their whole lives see the fed grab getting worse every year. Now the blm is in the process of reevaluating all or most roads . They want to close huge sections of off-road dirt roads. They are hostile to cattle grazing on fed land. And if you haven’t paid attention. They are in the process…piece by piece, making more monuments, etc. that lock up tens of thousands of acres. Places you aren’t going to see unless you backpack in. The state has no intention of selling off land. They just want control to put the people who live here to have a say. Not some democrat from California or an Eastern state that hasn’t even been here, let alone tried to make a living in a small rural Utah town. We have relatives that live in marysvail and junction. Look em up on a map. Their kids all have to move away because they can’t make a living there. There is a big mining company drilling exploratory holes between those two towns. Wife’s 93 year old uncle worked in a hard rock mine where they are drilling. The assays are pretty much filled with rich ore. We were there for their town celebration on the 24th of July. The guy in charge of the drilling has become great friends with the family and is employing many of their kids. He said just to get the permits and be able to begin mining it will take fifteen to twenty years. Read government red tape. The state would like to use some of the resources we have to benefit our people. All federal land brings in no revenue. The state just wants to be able to generate some income from the resources we have. Don’t read that as rape the land tear it all up.

Okay, flame away.

I can see how Utah has good intentions, and trust me, I truly understand the struggle. It seems half of the state has been turned into national parks and monuments, and I remember being in Blanding when almost every car and business in town had "No Monument" written on it, yet they ended up getting steamrolled by the feds anyway. Utah might be about the only state I would trust to do a better job of managing public land over the feds, but New Mexico absolutely would not.

State,fed,doesn't matter. They have both proven to be completely corrupted with every decision they make favoring lobbyists and not the citizens that own the land.
Gotta cut the head off the snake if you want to fix the problem.

This is the truth, whether state or fed controlled, liberal or conservative, your right to access public lands is under attack.

 

[Weasel]

You can really see all the easterners talking out their asses in this thread

I saw this same notice from BRC, and it concerns me greatly. Even more concerning is the way the BRC is spinning this as something positive. If BLM land is relinquished, the west will become just like the east with no legal places to wheel except small commercialized pieces of private property.

I can see how Utah has good intentions, and trust me, I truly understand the struggle. It seems half of the state has been turned into national parks and monuments, and I remember being in Blanding when almost every car and business in town had "No Monument" written on it, yet they ended up getting steamrolled by the feds anyway. Utah might be about the only state I would trust to do a better job of managing public land over the feds, but New Mexico absolutely would not.

This is the truth, whether state or fed controlled, liberal or conservative, your right to access public lands is under attack.

Fully agree this is super dangerous and probably change everything for the worse. I think it could be even more political then it is now.

 

[rockota]

Everything can always get worse.

Or better…

The more the feds control, the less influence the state residents have… and the less influence the individual state has on its own destiny.

Centralized government never ends in a net positive for the citizen

 

[Provience]

Fully agree this is super dangerous and probably change everything for the worse. I think it could be even more political then it is now.

As always, would've been nice if the BLM wasn't weaponized

 

[rockota]

I don’t think so. To date Pennsylvania still has not done anything in favor of public motorized vehicle land access. There have been many attempts, but they all fail. Even with the promotion of reviving so many dying mountain towns, all they reply with is “erosion.”

These trails and public land access take a lot of money to maintain, and even more when your state has 2,500+/- miles of them. That cuts into state budgets. When it starts affecting a states budget closures will happen.

So better to be managed by the entity $34 trillion in debt?

 

[Weasel]

I dunno we don't have any state land in the nearby area that is worth anything rec wise. Just parks and no fun stuff there. The only reason we have what we do is because it's federal. I don't have a lot of confidence that the state would have kept as much open as we have now without it cycling every time a different governor comes in.

 

[Ranchtruck]

I guess you gotta live in Utah to understand this. The state would like to use some of the resources we have to benefit our people. All federal land brings in no revenue. The state just wants to be able to generate some income from the resources we have. Don’t read that as rape the land tear it all up.

Okay, flame away.

First off the land & mineral rights don't belong to the state so it's a big land grab for the state to take ownership. At least the grift, kickbacks, and lobbying to take advantage of the resources will pad the politicians in Salt Lake rather than DC but the locals will still get fucked.

Secondly, look into the Payment in lieu of Taxes that the western states get. Payments in Lieu of Taxes | U.S. Department of the Interior

 

[rockdog57]

First off the land & mineral rights don't belong to the state so it's a big land grab for the state to take ownership. At least the grift, kickbacks, and lobbying to take advantage of the resources will pad the politicians in Salt Lake rather than DC but the locals will still get fucked.

Secondly, look into the Payment in lieu of Taxes that the western states get. Payments in Lieu of Taxes | U.S. Department of the Interior

Okay 👍 , so let em lock it all up. Because that’s where the blm in Utah is headed.

 

[YZRider]

Duty to dispose land was the thing when states joined the union. Your greedy ass govt locked it up once there was enough infrastructure around to make it worth a shit. Nobody cared though, because there was enough space that at the time whatever private entity took custody didn't really know what to do with it. Years ago I thought Utah had the deal in the bag, but for whatever reason never pushed the issue.

If it were WA, and all that land got transferred to DNR, which is still dog shit, I wouldn't be mad since we might actually get some use out of it rather than watch it all burn.

I'll add that a lot of the forest land WA DNR has was by default of the cut-and-run days. It was junk land, liability without any tax revenue, the whole reason for Designated Forestland. Notice they haven't sold any off, it produces timber.

 

[Slander]

So better to be managed by the entity $34 trillion in debt?

Just look at speeches at climate summits from John Kerry talking about monetizing wildlands and proposals to start selling shares of public land by Wall Street in exchange for carbon credits. Fuuuuuuuuck that. Much rather have it in states hands as you at least have some sort of a shot in hell at stopping it, rather than shit happening at a federal level.