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Gear Pattern check/metal shavings

eacook1

eacook1

Red Skull Member
ST4x4
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Member Number
3550
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212
Loc
Temecula, CA
I posted this in the Toyota thread but as an after thought I think it’s should have just gone here.

What are your thoughts on this pattern. Used elocker rear. I am getting what I thought was a lot of metal on the drain plug. I am hoping to just run them for now as I am heading to the Rubicon the 2nd week of sept. I certainly don’t want to screw myself though if this is no bueno.

IMG_4035.jpeg
IMG_4036.jpeg
 
What's the current backlash? And do you still have a decent amount of pinion bearing preload, and carrier bearing preload? The variations in the pattern between a couple teeth look strange, but that could just be an anomaly of how ya spun the pattern through the paint
 
Not much info to go off but that inconsistency in the pattern looks like a problem.

Did you check axial runout on that carrier and ring gear? How much is your backlash changing when you measure in different locations?
 
.0055-.006 backlash checked in 4-5 spots.

I don’t feel like there is a lot of pinion pre-load, but I didn’t check it.

I adjusted carrier preload and then re-set the back lash per the FSM. I think I may have accidentally stopped rotation while getting that pattern. I was having trouble keeping tension on everything and turning all the way through the compound.

I did not check run out on the back of the gear, but I can.
 
Run out on the back of the gear is about .003”. There isn’t much area there to get a really good reading but it definitely is running out.
 
That’s not too bad on runout and your backlash isn’t changing enough to worry about so that’s good. I would check the pattern again and run it through a couple times to make the pattern nice and clear.
 
I like to spin the pinion with a drill and drag the ring gear with my other palm.

Drive side is definitely weird looking, the first two marked teeth on the coast side don’t look horrible.

My vote is run it, you’ve been running it? As long as the BL isn’t completely way out I wouldn’t be too concerned.
 
Agreed with spinning the pinion with a drill while applying drag with a leather glove etc, just use a hex socket adapter in the drill to use your pinion nut socket. Makes for really crisp patterns, but that's just for future test patterns.

I would make sure you have pretty heavy carrier bearing preload, and make sure your pinion preload isn't too low (but cautious because crush sleeves, unless it's built with a solid spacer) because yota 8"s like to have the pinion loosen over time under extreme loading
 
The back lash was .0135 when I first pulled the diff. I’ve had some say don’t change it and others say bring it back in spec. Thoughts?

I don’t know if this was built with shims or a crush sleeve.
 
Personally, I'd probably tighten the backlash like you did. But if it's worn in elsewhere, it can definitely create funky patterns. Still shouldn't explain the inconsistency which is why I wondered if it had lost preload, but yeah. The patterns you have aren't completely out of the ballpark, just odd because different teeth are saying different things.
 
Ok, tried again using the drill motor. Looks better but I can’t post pics now. Not sure why. Will try again in a few.
 
If you’re centered on the flank of the tooth on both sides then run it. I’d probably set the backlash in the .008-.010 range, but I’ve never set up used gears before.

There is a decent pattern in the first pictures if you read between the lines.
 
nice, that's more uniform. The pattern is still a little unique on the concave side, but great on the convex side. The only strangeness now is probably just due to the backlash being different from where it was worn in. But IMO, pinion depth looks great so as long as you have solid preload on everything, I say send it
 
Even with everything assembled right now I have nearly zero inch lbs when I out a torque wrench on the pinion. Maybe 1-2 at the most.
 
eacook1 said:
Carrier preload is set. I would have to pull the carrier to check pinion preload correct?
Click to expand...

To measure it properly, yeah. But if you have a feel for where it should be, you can wiggle the pinion in that small free zone of backlash and at least be confident it's somewhere above zero, and on the other end of the spectrum, doesn't have crazy resistance from too much preload.

Definitely make sure the pinion nut is staked heavily, and I've even put a tig tack on the pinion nut before to help ensure it couldn't back off in the future (but small enough to easily sand off
 
eacook1 said:
Even with everything assembled right now I have nearly zero inch lbs when I out a torque wrench on the pinion. Maybe 1-2 at the most.
Click to expand...

That's too low imo, I'd probably be yanking the carrier to dive into that deeper. I know that sucks to hear, but pinion preload helps minimize deflection under load as well as give you the best bearing life
 
hmmmm. So I don’t know if it’s shimmed or uses a crush sleeve. Can I put my impact on it and give it a wack?
 
I'd use more finesse personally, breaker bar so you have some feel as you tighten it. You can put some bolts in the flange so you can wedge a pry bar in to stop the pinion from turning
 
So at this point the whole thing needs to be pulled apart and re-shimmed. I have never had a pinion out. If I pull the carrier and take the pinion nut off does the pinion just slide out?
 
eacook1 said:
I’m pretty certain it’s shimmed. Can’t budge it using your method.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, at least you know it hasn't loosened up. Crush sleeves can be pretty stiff too, but if you're getting a hundred to a couple hundred foot lbs into it with no movement, I agree it's most likely shimmed.

eacook1 said:
So at this point the whole thing needs to be pulled apart and re-shimmed. I have never had a pinion out. If I pull the carrier and take the pinion nut off does the pinion just slide out?
Click to expand...

Yep in theory. Sometimes the outer bearing is a mild press fit versus a slip fit, in which case it will hold the pinion, and you'll have to drive the pinion out. If they are stubborn, I sometimes use an air chisel with a circular blunted pointy bit in the divot on the end of the pinion to "delicately" (lol) drive it out without too much fuss. Though if you don't have shims on hand, you may run into a scenario where the shims on the solid spacer aren't in fine enough increments to not overshoot. But it all depends on what kind of shims you find when you get in there.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
Gotcha, at least you know it hasn't loosened up. Crush sleeves can be pretty stiff too, but if you're getting a hundred to a couple hundred foot lbs into it with no movement, I agree it's most likely shimmed.



Yep in theory. Sometimes the outer bearing is a mild press fit versus a slip fit, in which case it will hold the pinion, and you'll have to drive the pinion out. If they are stubborn, I sometimes use an air chisel with a circular blunted pointy bit in the divot on the end of the pinion to "delicately" (lol) drive it out without too much fuss. Though if you don't have shims on hand, you may run into a scenario where the shims on the solid spacer aren't in fine enough increments to not overshoot. But it all depends on what kind of shims you find when you get in there.
Click to expand...

The air hammer truck is the best way IMO, I’ve also used some 220 grit sand paper stuck flat to the workbench and hand “swirled” the solid spacer to knock 2 thou or so off.
 
Got everything apart. Question 1. What do you think of this bearing and race. I can catch a finger on the worst lines on the bearing.
IMG_4043.jpeg
IMG_4044.jpeg


Question 2. I have 5 shims. They range from .01-.012 each. How much thickness would you remove to go from near zero pre-load to 6.9” pounds my FSM recommends for used bearings.
 
Is it safe to assume all the specs for a Toyota e-locker would be the same for a v6 third?
 
Bearings don’t look terrible, probably just fine to run them. Those specific scoring marks are indication of contamination at some point, had a few pieces of grit floating through there.

Starting with zero preload it’s a bit hard to guess, because you could actually be in the fully unloaded territory and the drag you were feeling was the pinion seal. But you’ll probably be looking at adjusting it by single digit thousandths. But because the smallest shim you have is ten thou, I’d remove that one, reassemble it, and see if it overshoots. But be aware of preload as you’re taking up the final slack, just so you don’t hammer it home and discover a wild amount of preload
 
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