Gas welding machine/generator

zxkevinxz

zxkevinxz

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May 20, 2020
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I would like advice on current gas powered 250ish Amp welder/generators.

I have a few blue machines I like. The 225 and 250 are great. I have a little wildcat 200 and a plug in/gas model I think it's a 160 or something like that.

The 200 and 160 eat voltage regulators.

I had a spectrum extreme 625 plasma take a **** after just a couple years. Almost the price of a new unit to fix it.

I'm not happy with Miller other than my bigger machines.

My guys mostly use them for arc welding for days on end. Sometimes as a generator in a pinch.

My question is, what is the best 250ish Amp machine on the market right now?
 
We have a couple of trailblazers we bought two years ago and the guys seem to love them. For what it's worth we only have one or two contractors that prefer Lincoln machines but I think a lot of that has to do with having LN-25 feeders more than them being better or worse.
 
I live by the rule red for the outdoor welders and blue for the indoor welders. I haven’t been let down yet.
 
I'll piggy back on this a bit since I was just thinking about this.

Short:
I'm looking for something to potentially run a house, shop, and upgrade from Miller Passport(~180 amp) to a more powerful MIG. I'm looking for semi-portable.

Long:
I may have to run my house on a generator for a while(wildfire). My memory says Generac generators are in the $2500-$3000 range. I think that puts me in a good start for a welder/generator.

Is there an issue with running welder mostly as generator for extended times(think 7- 10 days)?

Is there an issue with "cold" running for water cooled engines? My temps drop to about 20F. Generator will be under cover.

Are there welder/generators that are propane powered? Or conversion kits to make an engine propane?

Having not looked at engine powered mig, are they spool gun only? And if only spool gun, how "heavy" or cumbersome do they become?
 
Just as I suspected, I'm looking at the ranger 250 gxt. Does this throw any red flags for anyone?

At home I have the esab rebel 205ic

This will be my first non blue for work...
 
zxkevinxz said:
Just as I suspected, I'm looking at the ranger 250 gxt. Does this throw any red flags for anyone?

At home I have the esab rebel 205ic

This will be my first non blue for work...
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look similar to my tb302 but make sure it has a separate generator for ac power. (I didn’t read far into thespecs) In the past at least the 250 class machines can be dc output only and or need different taps on the settings to get full power out of the “generator “ side
 
i have ran a number of blue weld gens. currently a tb325efi.

if i werent' making my money welding i dont think i'd own a weld/gen.
if you dont air arc, or run a v-senceing feeder i wounldn't own a weld gen.

my shop is mostly blue, i have one red bench feeder and an htp tig machine. but, i have zero brand loyalty. my shop/ biz was started with a lincoln 140hd and a tweco 252i. it seems there is more blue in the west and red in the east.

Even though I do make my money welding, i still dont think i'll ever buy another weld/gen unless it has the air pack as well. i have a qmcd10k that i run an xmt or plas off of at times and will be looking for a 20k gen to power then whole show. xmt's and such run just fine on gen power. on my current job i have 3 xmts, 2 pm65 plas's running 3guys. powered by a gen or shore power.


i also wouldn't want to weld off of any of the entry weld/gen units out there. while i really like my trailblazer i've never been happy with any of the bobcats or similar low end lincolns.



what is it your plan to use a wel/gen for?
just run your esab rebel off of the 9500 quiet gen that HF sells. save a ton of money.
 
My esab ain't leaving my garage. It's just for my hobby stuff. I have multiple jobsites at a time without much or any power available. I send 2 trucks and 4 guys to each. We are arc welding 140' × 8' x 2' carbon steel conveyors into concrete pits with inbeds. Then we assemble an equipment package around it which requires some SS welding. These are 6-8 week jobs. The welding is only like 1/20th of the job. We do plumbing, hydraulic systems, low voltage controls, automation, chemistry, pneumatics, point of sale, network, vacuum systems, motor controls, etc. (I sell and install car wash equipment). We run the welding machine for 3 days straight at the beginning of the job and then on and off for small fab projects along the way. Lots of custom, fit the need stuff. I don't use the machines as generators except to power plasmas when needed.
 
The Miller 250s are doing fine, I'm just wondering if they are still the best option.
 
I see a lot more old Lincolns than old Millers...

Now that I think about it I see a lot more new Lincolns in truck beds too.
 
I have a Bobcat, I guess it is old now
still going
no complaints other than when it is out, I am out of the cozy shop

Blue/Red, I don't think there is a bad choice
 
zxkevinxz said:
My esab ain't leaving my garage. It's just for my hobby stuff. I have multiple jobsites at a time without much or any power available. I send 2 trucks and 4 guys to each. We are arc welding 140' × 8' x 2' carbon steel conveyors into concrete pits with inbeds. Then we assemble an equipment package around it which requires some SS welding. These are 6-8 week jobs. The welding is only like 1/20th of the job. We do plumbing, hydraulic systems, low voltage controls, automation, chemistry, pneumatics, point of sale, network, vacuum systems, motor controls, etc. (I sell and install car wash equipment). We run the welding machine for 3 days straight at the beginning of the job and then on and off for small fab projects along the way. Lots of custom, fit the need stuff. I don't use the machines as generators except to power plasmas when needed.
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i've done some structural i-beam packages for local car washes and regularly do metal fab and weld for 3 of them.



sounds like you need a gen and the ability to stick weld up to 150a? i assume, from the last install i was around.

i wouldn't bother with a weld/gen for the cost. i would get the HF 9500 inverter gen, or whatever flavor gen you prefer. and then pick a lincoln/ miller/ esab etc welder that fits the need.

i dont see an advantage to buying a weld/gen cost of leads etc... buy a genny and be able to buy and power 2 welders at the same time for less money and less down time when any single unit goes bad.


or what the reason you prefer a weld /gen?


* also the car wash stuff is interesting to me, some of the installers very obviously kill it, i was impressed at the quoted package cost. and also surprised the owner negotiated the i-beam package out of it.
the one i was involved in had many elements the installer didn't account for, we are also in an out of the way area.
 
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Interesting. Yes 150a would get us done @ 80% duty for a couple days. X2 would be ideal. I already have a couple inverter Miller cracker boxes. They suck on 110. @ 220 they are just fine for what we do. The 220 8 awg x 200' cords I make are kinda daunting to deal with but maybe the cost is worth it. It's nice to start on one end and work all the way through on the same lead. But not necessarily the best option that's why I ask.

On this note...

What's your ideal setup with a genny and (2) 150a plug in machines running on it?
 
2 inverter stick welders @ 150a+ on one generator (size?) Running 80% duty for (3) 14 hrs days. Regularly.

What's the recipe?

Thanks y'all
 
zxkevinxz said:
Interesting. Yes 150a would get us done @ 80% duty for a couple days. X2 would be ideal. I already have a couple inverter Miller cracker boxes. They suck on 110. @ 220 they are just fine for what we do. The 220 8 awg x 200' cords I make are kinda daunting to deal with but maybe the cost is worth it. It's nice to start on one end and work all the way through on the same lead. But not necessarily the best option that's why I ask.

On this note...

What's your ideal setup with a genny and (2) 150a plug in machines running on it?
Click to expand...


as far as power cord vs weldl lead.... power cord is far cheaper any way you slice it.


i dont know on an ideal 150a @ 80% x2 set up. i'd have to invest time rather then the bs i already know. what i do know is the low end weld/gen plus... whatever aint worth it for your needs. should be able to run the weld power on 10-12k gen.

and what stick are you running at 150a @80% duty???




pitter patter, let us know what you figure out.
 
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arse_sidewards said:
5/32 I can see it.
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that would be on the high end, and most people are running on the low end with 6010.


only time i've even seen stick welding at 150+ amps in the field is running 7024. and that was only once, burning in the base row fillet on a 1mill gal water tank. generally you go to wire before amperage gets much higher.



the dude is dreaming thinking any of his guys are even close to 80% on time.



from what i've seen of car wash installers. they are doing quick and dirty 2or3"/12 skip welds. the car wash i put together the beam package for the owner also had me come back and go over nearly every weld. i just went over w/ 7018. his other car wash i was always getting called to to fix broken welds, i've about done them all at this point.
 
tracyb said:
that would be on the high end, and most people are running on the low end with 6010.
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But I can see the need for it if he's working with larger rod sizes to fill big joints.

tracyb said:
only time i've even seen stick welding at 150+ amps in the field is running 7024. and that was only once, burning in the base row fillet on a 1mill gal water tank. generally you go to wire before amperage gets much higher.



the dude is dreaming thinking any of his guys are even close to 80% on time.
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Completely agree on both points.


tracyb said:
from what i've seen of car wash installers. they are doing quick and dirty 2or3"/12 skip welds. the car wash i put together the beam package for the owner also had me come back and go over nearly every weld. i just went over w/ 7018. his other car wash i was always getting called to to fix broken welds, i've about done them all at this point.
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How the **** do they keep breaking? Do the structures flex that much?
 
arse_sidewards said:
But I can see the need for it if he's working with larger rod sizes to fill big joints.


Completely agree on both points.



How the **** do they keep breaking? Do the structures flex that much?
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well, it isn't the best weld to begin with. but it doesn't seem to be a problem the first couple years then they start coming apart. most of the welds are just holding guides and such in place. the most common area i weld and repair is were the cars enter and exit. what ever the deal is that grabs the tire, hits a plate and gets worn and repeatedly slaps back and forth. for the most part everything else i fix stays fixed until its damaged. the sprayer rotating assembly's for the self serve are always wearing and breaking too. kids hang off them and what not.


not much flex, more repetition and wear. i dont know how many cars a day the places i work for see but its allot
 
Here's the conveyor structure

20220909_091315.jpg
 
It's just tacked I place at this point. Once it's welded in, it's rare the conveyor ever needs welding again. With all the water and soap and 15,000 cars a month going across it, they are averaging 15yrs before needing to be replaced.
 
yeah the ones i work on dont have that metal structure, its basically a trouf in the concrete for the conveyer.


i got a call to weld there again last night, so i'll take care of it later today or tomorrow morning. i'll try to remember to snap some pics
where alot of the weld failure happens on the ones i work on is where equipment is welded to the angle iron piece poured into the concrete edge, like where your pimed metal meets the concrete.
 
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