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Gas vs Diesel Truck in 2020

slowhand

slowhand

P4x4 Relocated
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Member Number
2728
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10
I searched and not a lot on the subject. And things have changed since 2006. How different are things in 2020? Just seeking some experience, wisdom, and insights. Yeah yeah! I know. There are as many opinions on this as there are grains of sand on a beach.


History
  • Let me get right to it. I’ve had about 6 trucks since 1998, Diesel, and gas. I was not happy with any of them. Maybe my expectations are too high. I want a comfortable truck, that can pass a car on the freeway when I floor it, and it needs to tow a little bit.
  • Currently I have a 2009 RAM 6.7 3500. The thing is a pig, and rides like crap. I can probably hit 0-60 faster on a bicycle. I exaggerate, but damn! 40% of the time when I floor, it, it literally takes 3 seconds before it picks up ½ a mile an hour. No lie, I have to look at the tach to see if it's moving. I took the thing in a few weeks ago to see if there was something wrong. $1,000 and a couple of minor sensors. (Sensors, fluids, filters, labor) That’s it. Boost was above average, and everything checked out.
  • I recently drove a newer F150 with a 10 speed, and that thing was like a rocket ship, and drove like a Cadillac. I know, 2 completely different vehicles made for completely different purposes. So now I’m looking for something in the middle.
Expectations
Let me lay out some expectations.
  • Year 2014 to 2018 ( For the right truck, maybe $30,000 to $43,000 ) 4x4
  • Driving Habits
    • 3,000 lbs. 3,000 miles per year, maybe 15 tows (Can-Am, RZR)
    • 7,000 lbs. maybe 4 times a year, 1,500 miles total (Boat, Jeep)
    • 11,000 lbs. once or twice a year maybe 50 miles (Kubota, Bobcat)
    • No travel trailer as yet.
    • And yes some hills.
    • 95% Non-Towing driving, hills, city, freeway
  • Comfort and Performance
    • I would like it to be as comfortable as possible
    • Maybe 35’s if it does not completely kill the power.
    • Not at all apposed to spending money on a good suspensions if I can make it ride better, like with an F250 soft-ride and airbags for towing.
    • I think I would get more satisfaction from a better 0-60 rating.
    • I don’t care about fuel costs. It’s a wash with Def, Diesel prices, and maintenance.
    • Four door crew cab, and a short bed
    • Will do a little off roading, site seeing, fire roads. I save the real 4X stuff for my rock crawler and RZR
That’s all I can think of right now. I appreciate all constructive responses.
Thanks in advance.
 
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Lol

I just want a truck that rides nice, tows anything, is fast and gets great mpg with a lift and 35s :laughing::flipoff2:

Get an F150 with either the 5.0 or 3.5 eco boost and the max tow or whatever package.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Lol

I just want a truck that rides nice, tows anything, is fast and gets great mpg with a lift and 35s :laughing::flipoff2:

Get an F150 with either the 5.0 or 3.5 eco boost and the max tow or whatever package.
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Lol.. yep I'm with you haha..
Op stick to gas, that's gonna give most of what your looking for.
 
Almost exactly what my use case was for when I got a 16 Ram Power Wagon. 6.4 Hemi, 6 sp, and 4.10s make for a solid combo. Fit 37s on stock suspension and super minor trimming.

Handled towing my Toyotas or Jeeps just fine. Technically over rating with the tractor towing, but a regular gas 3/4 ton will laugh at that.

Goes easier when you downshift manually before climbs so it doesn't try to drop multiple gears and really sing. Handled the camper we got earlier this year just fine with lower gears. Only complaint was range and temps, but we tend to put heavy miles in on drive days (Tahoe to Phoenix in a day, ie).

Getting a camper has led to wanting more fuel range to cut out a stop or 2 each day, plus wanting a nicer interior are the primary reasons for stepping up to a diesel earlier this year.

I do miss my PW at times still. Factory lockers/winch, plus Thuren suspension and Kings on 37s was bitchin'. The diesel may get it's second phase soon already.:grinpimp:
 
Never understood why people think they need 35s on a tow rig.

Gut the emissions off the 6.7L and tune, carli suspension, drive it.
 
Every couple of weeks I drive a lot for work and when I do I rent a half ton truck and put 1-2,000 miles on it in a week. I’ve been doing this for several years and regularly rotate through Silverados, F-150s and RAMs. “Off road” is limited to utility service roads up to tower sites where the BLM or Forest Service requires 4x4 by license so its really not four wheeling. I’ve pretty much driven every year of offering since 2014. I mention this because this is not a, “the XXX is better because I have one”, analysis.

For the all-around best balance, I would have to give it to a F-150 with a 3.5 Ecoboost. They’re downright fast and I’ll get 20 MPG all day long at 80 on the highway. The 5.0 is great too with a few miles less MPG. I think it’s the 10 speed transmission that really makes these trucks.

Well a Silverado has a 10 speed transmission too! Maybe it’s the electronics that GM used that make the Silverado seem not as good at shifting and finding the right gear as the F-150; particularly when downshifting to pass when climbing a grade.

I just don’t like the RAM. I have nothing bad to say about it that really matters.

No, I do not tow with them. The bulk of your towing seems light enough to not matter or trigger the need for a 3/4 ton or extra power of the Diesel. Want is a different story.
 
RPS1030 said:
Getting a camper has led to wanting more fuel range to cut out a stop or 2 each day, plus wanting a nicer interior are the primary reasons for stepping up to a diesel earlier this year.
:
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Thanks. Tough choice though. 6 of one, half dozen of the other. I can tig and mount some 30 gallon extra fuel tanks in two days, with pumping system, etc.. No problem there.
 
TRINDU said:
Never understood why people think they need 35s on a tow rig.
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Must not have read the entire post. I do not tow a lot. 95% non towing. If i was going to tow every week, it's a no brainer. And I am skilled enough to break the law with towing capacity if I put some weight in the truck, but I'm only doing that once a year for an hour, maybe. The rest of the time, 3,000 lbs. Hell my Corvette can do that. The one tons are way over-rated these days. 20 years ago, there was no choice, but some people are stuck in the past. Not saying you are.
 
1/2 ton you get more for your money if you can get by with it.

I have a 2016 super duty f250 lariat. Diesel crew cab 4x4. Every option except navigation and sunroof.

I have always said I will get another just like it when this gets undependable. It has been awesome. Smooth quiet good ride. Plenty of creature comforts. Tows great.

I think I am at about 155k miles. Had to replace def heater, brakes, tires and that is it. I had an oil leak that was just tightening some bolts but I can't remember if that was this truck or the last one.
I also plow with it. Trans is starting to shift funny from time to time but a trans is always expected when plowing.

Just towed 9k 500 miles. Set the cruise and turn up the radio. You forget the trailer is back there.

I run 18 on the highway. Average 15.5 mostly in town. Haven't dropped below 10 towing yet but I have hit 10.

It is definitely not a pig or dog. I have no desire to add a tuner it runs plenty good.

I am not really a leather fan but I do condition them from time to time and they still look and feel brand new.

If I had the time and money I would clip the cab and weld an excursion on the back.
 
slowhand said:
Must not have read the entire post. I do not tow a lot. 95% non towing. If i was going to tow every week, it's a no brainer. And I am skilled enough to break the law with towing capacity if I put some weight in the truck, but I'm only doing that once a year for an hour, maybe. The rest of the time, 3,000 lbs. Hell my Corvette can do that. The one tons are way over-rated these days. 20 years ago, there was no choice, but some people are stuck in the past. Not saying you are.
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I read it. Fire roads/light offroad barely constitute 235s.

If its 95% non towing, drop back down to a half ton and white knuckle it once a year. Tundra, 5.7 with 4.30s would be perfect.
 
OC IH said:
For the all-around best balance, I would have to give it to a F-150 with a 3.5 Ecoboost. They’re downright fast and I’ll get 20 MPG all day long at 80 on the highway. The 5.0 is great too with a few miles less MPG. I think it’s the 10 speed transmission that really makes these trucks.
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Great input. Thanks. I talked to a couple of tranny gurus, and they say to hold off on the 10 speeds for a few years. The computers and sensors are not quite dialed in yet. They are designed to skip from 4th to 9th or whatever based on the sensor reading. But damn they are fast. And I've had plenty of Diesels. I'm sort of over them. Kinda like my Corvette. Been there, done that. I don't need a work truck, but I need a truck that can be called upon to do truck things when needed. And I may be unsafe about it a couple times a year, unless I rent for the big haul.

When i need to tow the 12,000lbs once a year, just go rent a damn 1 ton. That's an idea I was thinking of too. Makes perfect sense. And then I don't get my balls and kidneys racked the rest of the year.
 
Tiha said:
I am not really a leather fan but I do condition them from time to time and they still look and feel brand new.

If I had the time and money I would clip the cab and weld an excursion on the back.
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Exaclty. I hate leather. HATE it. Give me fake cloth any day. All leather seats makes me sweat. Excursion. LOL I need the open bed. Always throwing crap in the back, loading and unloading with a gantry crane.

I've had three 1/2 tons. I converted one to F150 springs and airbags, and it was 400% better ride. So there's always that!
 
TRINDU said:
I read it. Fire roads/light offroad barely constitute 235s.

If its 95% non towing, drop back down to a half ton and white knuckle it once a year. Tundra, 5.7 with 4.30s would be perfect.
Click to expand...


Yeah! I hear you. One of my trucks had 37's with some finder trimming. Killed the performance. But if I can make it look a little better without costing performance...... Yeah. Maybe some meaty 235's with some aggressive treads, and decent wheels. 😎 And I'll never do a lift again. 1 to 2" at the most. Been there done that. Lifting shit in and out of the bed was pain. I'm past all that. Making it a little more manly can't hurt. Can it?
 
slowhand said:
Yeah! I hear you. One of my trucks had 37's with some finder trimming. Killed the performance. But if I can make it look a little better without costing performance...... Yeah. Maybe some meaty 235's with some aggressive treads, and decent wheels. 😎 And I'll never do a lift again. 1 to 2" at the most. Been there done that. Lifting shit in and out of the bed was pain. I'm past all that. Making it a little more manly can't hurt. Can it?
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I was just speaking from a mechanical advantage point of view. A lot of new gassers have 3.2x-3.7x ratios, throwing 35s on ot just kills the performance and 99% dont regear. You do you as far as looks.

Which is why I suggest the tundra. The 5.7L has a decent track record albeit a little thirsty. But the double over 6spd and 4.30s is just perfect. IMHO the chassis is just a hair over built than the competition. For example, the 10.5 rear dwarfs anything in the same class.
​
the interior layout isnt my favorite though.
 
I'd 2nd the tundra too.. probably the best 1/2 ton truck on the market. If they'd just come out with some HD trucks they'd put ram out of business!
 
F150 with the tow package. I went with the F250 because it was cheaper than the half ton, and I wanted CCLB.

But yea, unless you're hauling a decent load all the time, go with gas. You pop the hood recently of a new diesel? screw that noise.
 
Spend some time driving all the vehicles you’re interested in. Pretty much any recent 4wd truck will likely fit 33s stock, some will fit 35s with a level if that’s your goal.

The Tundra pretty much has been the same vehicle since 2014. After spending a bunch of miles in one, I’m really not a fan of the seats or interior lay out. They’re fairly well built trucks though. The crew max cab is roomy, but the short bed sucks for hauling much.

I had a newer Ram 1/2 ton as a rental last year. The dial shifter drove me nuts. Personally, I wouldn’t buy one solely based on that. I’m sure other people don’t mind it.

Current truck is a 1/2 ton Chevy. The stock suspension leaves a lot to be desired. Mine has the 5.3 and 8 speed transmission. Knock on wood, but mine has been flawless. Some people seem to have issues with the 8 speed.

I’m trying a 1/2 ton after have 3/4 tons out of the last 3 out of 4 trucks. Time will tell if I stick with it, or go back to a 3/4 ton next.
 
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TRINDU said:
, the 10.5 rear dwarfs anything in the same class.
​
the interior layout isnt my favorite though.
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Ha. Almost a good as the 14 bolt in my jeep. You make a good point. The 10.5 and 4.30 are definitely beefier that stock 8.8 and 3.73. And of course you need to re-gear other trucks to a minimum 4.10 (4.30 is better) if you go to 35's, with a new speedo gear, or do they program those these days? That's great point. Did not even look at the axle. I'm so used to Dana 60's over the past 20 years. Hmmmmmm. Something to think about. Thanks TRINDU.
 
woods said:
F150 with the tow package. I went with the F250 because it was cheaper than the half ton, and I wanted CCLB.

But yea, unless you're hauling a decent load all the time, go with gas. You pop the hood recently of a new diesel? screw that noise.
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I've had my fill of long beds too. Gotta park them in the back forty at Walmart, and can't fit into the damn spot at Home Depot. What idiot paints motorcycle parking stripes at a home depot? Can barely fit a golf cart in them. 😁
 
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woods said:
F150 with the tow package. I went with the F250 because it was cheaper than the half ton, and I wanted CCLB.

But yea, unless you're hauling a decent load all the time, go with gas. You pop the hood recently of a new diesel? screw that noise.
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was your dad pleased? :flipoff2: sorry had to do it :flipoff2:
 
Aggie06 said:
Spend some rest driving all the vehicles you’re interested in. .
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And there's my issue. As you say, they all have cons, and it's hard to tell unless you driven one. Suspension and ride mean nothing if the seats are like Southwest Airlines. Dangit! So nothing much has changed in the last 10 years. That's why I posted the thread. Trying to get a sense if other people are as frustrated as me. So I'm going to have to settle. Now I have to figure that out.
 
slowhand said:
I've had my fill of long beds too. Gotta park them in the back forty at Walmart, and can't fit into the damn spot at Home Depot. What idiot paints motorcycle parking stripes at a home depot? Can barely fit a golf cart in them. 😁
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Yea, its an adjustment. I park out in the far end. meh.
 
slowhand said:
And there's my issue. As you say, they all have cons, and it's hard to tell unless you driven one. Suspension and ride mean nothing if the seats are like Southwest Airlines. Dangit! So nothing much has changed in the last 10 years. That's why I posted the thread. Trying to get a sense if other people are as frustrated as me. So I'm going to have to settle. Now I have to figure that out.
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Chevrolet and Ford have had the most comfortable seats out of any I’ve owned, or test driven. Even the Laramie packaged Rams I test drove weren’t near as comfortable, let alone lower optioned vehicles.
 
Elwenil said:
Not a chance.
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I'm a firm believer they would. Toyota nailed the 1/2 ton truck. I wouldn't doubt they'd do just as well in the 1 ton market. I dont see ram surviving. They're gonna go before chevy or ford will
 
POR said:
I'm a firm believer they would. Toyota nailed the 1/2 ton truck. I wouldn't doubt they'd do just as well in the 1 ton market. I dont see ram surviving. They're gonna go before chevy or ford will
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I've been a Toyota guy for ever, but I just couldn't get into the Tundra when we wanted a 1/2 ton. They're ugly as hell and suck fuel. I really don't care for newer Toyota interior, feels cheap and looks to civic like for a truck.

I don't like either of their cab options, the access cab is too small and the whatever the other one is, is to big. I think ford is the only one doing proper cab sizes right now. The old school extra cabs are great for company trucks, room for your shit, or a few guys if you have to, with out the extra wheelbase of crew cab. The baby 4 doors Chevy and ram offer are a joke. I rode in a Chevy with the small back doors one time and i literally had to turn each foot sideways to get it out of the 7" opening in the bottom of the door :rolleyes:

Toyota is also slow to react to the market, they wait untill their platform is super out dated to change anything. Which has some benefits, but with everyone else having options for 20-27 mpg engines, toyota is still rocking the 14 mpg 5.7? No locker, even on the TRD? Yet Ford will ad a rear locker to almost any package AFAIK.

As far as the 10.5 rear, ya it's bad ass in a way. The housing it's self looks like they're still using the same tubes as they did in 86 :laughing: Ford and Chevy use a 9.75" ring gear, so not exactly small and I haven't heard of any half tons having rear axle issues, so it's just a pissing match at that point.


I'm not saying that the Tundra is a bad truck by any means. But it's far from the clear best. I really think the F150 is tough to beat, there is a reason why they're the #1 selling truck in the world. They are comfortable, ride and handle like a car. You have a great selection of engines, na v6 (had a company truck with it and it actually wasn't bad) 2 sizes of ecoboosts, the coyote, and the 3.0 diesel. It would be cool if they offered the 6.2 as well, but the 5.0 is a beast as it is. They have every option you can think of. The crew cabs are ridiculously long, but have a shit ton of room in them, and you can get it with a 6.5' bed. Interior is simple, and well layed out.

I guess time will tell if the late model Tundra will go 300k like the Tacomas and pickups before, but I'm guessing they won't. They just don't seem to have the quality they used to.
 
POR said:
I'm a firm believer they would. Toyota nailed the 1/2 ton truck. I wouldn't doubt they'd do just as well in the 1 ton market. I dont see ram surviving. They're gonna go before chevy or ford will
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Toyota barely out sold GMC last year with the Tacoma, not quite selling 250,000. Ram was second to the Ford with 634k. The Tundra only sold 112k. And yes, the Tundra is very ugly truck, second only to the Titan, in my opinion. The Ram has very good styling that seems very popular, both the new DT series and the 1500 Classic DS series are selling very well. GM also has a good looking truck, Ford for whatever reason still seems to only put out trucks with a front end that resemble an old bloodhound with cataracts. But yeah, Toyota won't really be a part of the US market without a heavy duty truck and I doubt they are capable of understanding the US fleet market. And while Ram may not be around in 50 more years, they are doing very well right now and the fleet market will keep them around just like they did Dodge in the '70s. Every service body truck I see is either a Ford or a Ram and those are units that Toyota doesn't even have something to compete with. So no, I think Toyota better be happy with the mini truck market, because they don't seem to grasp what an American wants out of a full size truck, in my opinion.
 
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