Free Speech Works, Wall of Moms and a microcase for why individualism works

[Provience]

https://jezebel.com/our-pain-is-not-an-asset-inside-the-breakdown-of-the-w-1844556866

exerpts from the above, yeah it is 'high school drama' and shit or whatever, but it is a highly biased source showcasing a bit of reckoning with their cause and they 'allies'. This is the benefit of portland giving everybody a huge spotlight for their cause. no, I don't support the way that Portland officials have gone about it, but it does well demonstrate why individualism is persistent, why limiting the structure is the only way to have meaningful action against structural racism

“The irony is that so many white people in north and northeast Portland have BLM signs, but they’re benefiting from the displacement of Black people.” They need, she said, to “put the same energy into building an equitable and just Portland.”

I asked Raiford what she felt true allyship, or to use her term, co-conspiratorship, looked like.

“It should look like showing up, and showing up unconditionally,” Raiford said. “Do it respectfully. Connect with people to find out what they need. Listen to Black people.” “Our pain,” she added, “is not an asset.”

also, of course your pain is an asset! BLM has always been about profiting off black death, that's it. I mean, obviously these people don't or may never 'fully get it' but hey, i'll take any sort of fracture in the damn of their ideology caused from reality as a start. it opens up more people to doing better and thinking independently.

“My mother grew up in the movement, and she raised me in the movement,” Chase said. She added, “That legacy of activism by Black moms, it goes all the way back to when we were enslaved. If we want education, if we want housing, if we want safety, we have to build it ourselves, because white America will not do it for us.”

nevermind that 'white america' isn't a thing in 'your ideology', notice the lack of capitalization on white but existance on black despite the same usage. what is being considered as "white America" is actually those same racist systems and big government solution. No, federal housing mandates won't build you shit. No, lack of school choice won't educate you for shit. No, voting for redirecting of funds and removing police won't get you shit.

But left unresolved, for now, are the broader questions that the breakdown in Wall of Moms has raised, an almost too-perfect, frustrating, entirely predictable microcosm of the questions that continually plague movements for social change—questions of ownership, accountability, privilege, and perhaps most important of all, strategy. As Chase put it, “It’s just kind of textbook.” If it’s easy for people say “listen to Black women” to show off their political bonafides, it’s just as often empty words, discarded just as easily as they are typed into a tweet

this is the heart of the matter, right here. "plagues movements" is EXACTLY what happens when you want something to be leaderless to empower all. of fucking course it is a text book and predictable outcome People have been saying this for YEARS. wanna know why white/black/brown/purple people instinctively reply with "yeah, all lives matter" when initially faced with "black lives matter" slogan? that, right there. it is obviously empty words that is now being widely spun into empty dollars that are being funnelled to a very few with no aims of change.


and this is why freedom of speech is a good thing. air out your crazy, rational people will make their own judgements. you don't want to toil for the man or the white man or the black man or whatever? live your own life and do your own shit. it's always, post large government codified solutions such as slavery or jim crow or even forced (as opposed to protected) integration. throw off the decades of mental chains that say "you are not white, therefore you cannot speak or learn or work and never will be able to compete. you must take my handouts and rely on me for your only hope of safety".

self-determination is persistant.

 

[DWT]

This passed weekend I drove through the upper edge of PDX (84-205) and saw a pile of cars with BLM shit scribbled on the windows. 1 wasn't driven by a 20 something white chick, it had a black chick driving but that was the only one.

 

[Arickvan]

and this is why freedom of speech is a good thing. air out your crazy, rational people will make their own judgements. you don't want to toil for the man or the white man or the black man or whatever? live your own life and do your own shit. it's always, post large government codified solutions such as slavery or jim crow or even forced (as opposed to protected) integration. throw off the decades of mental chains that say "you are not white, therefore you cannot speak or learn or work and never will be able to compete. you must take my handouts and rely on me for your only hope of safety".

self-determination is persistant.

didnt you read that thread a couple weeks ago?

thats all white culture, to be independent, self reliant, blah blah blah

they just want there reparations and a continued welfare state


also, can we get some fawkin cliff notes, i aint readin all that

 

[Provience]

didnt you read that thread a couple weeks ago?

thats all white culture, to be independent, self reliant, blah blah blah

they just want there reparations and a continued welfare state


also, can we get some fawkin cliff notes, i aint readin all that

it's a long article, that was the cliff notes

I guess: Hardcore black woman media calls out "wall of moms" as being racist white group usurping black pain for fundraising and self-gratification.

it's a sign the modern whatever movement is realizing (again) that white liberals are the fox that seeks to do more damage than the wolf.

 

[evernoob]

What the hell are you talking about? Organization works.

In 9 weeks, really in 6 weeks, because these things happened what seems to be a while ago now, BLM and associated organizations have gotten:

• $1 billion shaved off the NYPD budget
• Fundamental changes in the approach to law enforcement in Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, and many other cities. This change is growing and spreading.
• The endorsement of virtually every national Corporation with a public media presence.
• A complete de-railment of the National Narrative: we are talking about it right now.
• An iconoclastic victory over quite literally thousands of public symbols, on an International basis. They have completely changed our public monument landscape.
• Dallas PD to institute a 'duty to intervene' requirement for excessive fore
• Pennsylvania to institute background checks for police (they weren't doing it before, LE is one of the lowest-requirement jobs there was), by State Law.
• Colorado to institution BLM endorsed regulations that are similar to Penn's
• Neck restraints removed from dozens of LE agencies by regulation, and this change is accelerating. Chicago, France (the entire nation), Connecticut, Washington DC, Phoenix, Houston, Austin, Florida, California, Washginton State... they have changed how Law Enforcement operates
• etc

Organization works. They got this in LESS than 6 weeks. This is a permanent shift in Law Enforcement and culture.

It's all because they were ready and organized from 2014. That's 6 years ago.

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

they just want there reparations and a continued welfare state

Unfortunately a bunch want far more than that.

Rewrite history.

Tax non-black businesses and individuals at higher rates.

Force businesses to hire and promote blacks.

Remove white people from positions of power or pay.

Adopt authoritarian Marxist inspired communism.

Genocide the "white race."

 

[Arickvan]

it's a long article, that was the cliff notes

I guess: Hardcore black woman media calls out "wall of moms" as being racist white group usurping black pain for fundraising and self-gratification.

it's a sign the modern whatever movement is realizing (again) that white liberals are the fox that seeks to do more damage than the wolf.

god damnit, ill read it next time im on the porcelain throne

 

[Provience]

What the hell are you talking about? Organization works.

In 9 weeks, really in 6 weeks, because these things happened what seems to be a while ago now, BLM and associated organizations have gotten:

• $1 billion shaved off the NYPD budget
• Fundamental changes in the approach to law enforcement in Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, and many other cities. This change is growing and spreading.
• The endorsement of virtually every national Corporation with a public media presence.
• A complete de-railment of the National Narrative: we are talking about it right now.
• An iconoclastic victory over quite literally thousands of public symbols, on an International basis. They have completely changed our public monument landscape.
• Dallas PD to institute a 'duty to intervene' requirement for excessive fore
• Pennsylvania to institute background checks for police (they weren't doing it before, LE is one of the lowest-requirement jobs there was), by State Law.
• Colorado to institution BLM endorsed regulations that are similar to Penn's
• Neck restraints removed from dozens of LE agencies by regulation, and this change is accelerating. Chicago, France (the entire nation), Connecticut, Washington DC, Phoenix, Houston, Austin, Florida, California, Washginton State... they have changed how Law Enforcement operates
• etc

Organization works. They got this in LESS than 6 weeks. This is a permanent shift in Law Enforcement and culture.

It's all because they were ready and organized from 2014. That's 6 years ago.

2014? thought it was 2012 when blm hit the scene. but yes, the stated ideal of 'leaderless' has always been a lie and they've always been heavily organized. it absolutely does work and they've had massive concessions. like a virus, this is just a bump in the road, but it is a good bump. i'll gladly talk about this stuff, it is the greatest avenue for bringing about the ideology of independence and meritocracy that I can think up precisely because they view it as a collectivist aim.

the cuts won't last, or they will and the shit side effects will further highlight violence and issues until more authoritarianism grows out of it.

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

the cuts won't last, or they will and the shit side effects will further highlight violence and issues until more authoritarianism grows out of it.

The changes in general won't last.

Corporate America has felt the backlash to trying to tell their customers how to think. See the Gillette case as a great example. Red Bull fired a bunch of their PR/marketing heads because they were demanding the company endorse BLM, they know there is NO WIN for a national/multinational corporation to take sides on this. The police cuts in certain areas have resulted in massive crime increases (NY city shootings/violent crime went up some 250%~ in short order, people begged them to put the defunded task forces back on the street and they have. In other cities the police have told people they will likely be on their own if they are attacked, and that will not last long term as the general law abiding public will get sick of being killed) and ultimately all proposed measures save for some hiring practices likely will be reverted or modified to the point they are effectively the same as before.

It's a bump on the road, unless it sparks into a real revolution. If it goes that way it will be a shooting revolution, and it will be ugly.

 

[Filthy McChevy]

Can't tell if the unwarranted dirty looks I've been getting from some young blacks for the last 50 years are any worse than they have always been.

 

[Provience]

Unfortunately a bunch want far more than that.

Rewrite history.

Tax non-black businesses and individuals at higher rates.

Force businesses to hire and promote blacks.

Remove white people from positions of power or pay.

Adopt authoritarian Marxist inspired communism.

Genocide the "white race."

and that is the stuff that really needs to get broadcasted out, it's a shame the mainstreammedia is so intent on sidelining 'the cause' by focusing on the 'mostly peaceful' aspects of the protest instead of listing demands and speech talk points and such and whatnot.

but I think that will be the narrative shift after the November elections. suddenly it will go from We need to listen to black women! to Holy shit, this is what they want!

 

[Slander]

I dont see how forced compliance into their ideology is individualism. My whole issue with all this is the religious like rhetoric this has taken the shape of. I agree with at least 3/4 of the core, original message of BLM, they went off the rails when they started going all marxist.

I do enjoy watching, not from a HA HA HA perspective, of BLM calling antifa and other groups out on their BS and co opting thier movement. I do find interesting all this allegid racist injustice coming from primarily white areas, can you REALLY understand the plight of the black minority, while you have had college paid for, always lived in a "safe" area, never experienced discrimination or abject poverty etc.... I dont pretend I do, however i see a dangerous path of racism against non blacks for being privileged and any defense of that being shouted down.

Now the strategy should be "hey regardless of race yes blacks you had it the worst by far, we are all getting fucked by the state, let's end this shit" you would have more allies in the movement I believe.

 

[evernoob]

The changes in general won't last.

Corporate America has felt the backlash to trying to tell their customers how to think. See the Gillette case as a great example. Red Bull fired a bunch of their PR/marketing heads because they were demanding the company endorse BLM, they know there is NO WIN for a national/multinational corporation to take sides on this. The police cuts in certain areas have resulted in massive crime increases (NY city shootings/violent crime went up some 250%~ in short order, people begged them to put the defunded task forces back on the street and they have. In other cities the police have told people they will likely be on their own if they are attacked, and that will not last long term as the general law abiding public will get sick of being killed) and ultimately all proposed measures save for some hiring practices likely will be reverted or modified to the point they are effectively the same as before.

It's a bump on the road, unless it sparks into a real revolution. If it goes that way it will be a shooting revolution, and it will be ugly.

It's a shift in the window. Of course there will be re-sets and setbacks for them. But they shifted things.

Gillette was months ago, Corporations couldn't get on the BLM bandwagon fast enough. Doesn't seem to have deterred them

That's how change works, bubba. That's why you are a frog in a pot. You think 'Things go back to normal'. No, they don't.

 

[Provience]

I dont see how forced compliance into their ideology is individualism. My whole issue with all this is the religious like rhetoric this has taken the shape of. I agree with at least 3/4 of the core, original message of BLM, they went off the rails when they started going all marxist.

I do enjoy watching, not from a HA HA HA perspective, of BLM calling antifa and other groups out on their BS and co opting thier movement. I do find interesting all this allegid racist injustice coming from primarily white areas, can you REALLY understand the plight of the black minority, while you have had college paid for, always lived in a "safe" area, never experienced discrimination or abject poverty etc.... I dont pretend I do, however i see a dangerous path of racism against non blacks for being privileged and any defense of that being shouted down.

Now the strategy should be "hey regardless of race yes blacks you had it the worst by far, we are all getting fucked by the state, let's end this shit" you would have more allies in the movement I believe.

at the very beginning, BLM was never about police brutality and has always been about Marxism. that is their core. they only added the police brutality stuff due to social pressure and it is still a footnote. "defund" is a new angle that they are latching onto because they see it as a huge power vacuum they can create and use for their own aims.

the core, original message has always been a whitewashed front. some of those loosely associated groups are having reckoning issues now that the full light is coming out.

the forced compliance is a win for individualism because they are starting to shift their message to "hey fucker, this was MY game, play by MY rules" and so now they need to either assert more authoritarianism to bring about their control, which many will do, or realize that only they can control what they can control, which is themselves. i.e. "if you (blacks) want housing, you (blacks) need to build it and not rely on them (white or the system) to do it for you because they (the system) don't have your interests in mind". which is what some of them will also do.

the things you listed and the things they list are not "black" issues. poverty/education/safety/security/discrimination, those are universal on the grand scheme and very individual. the messaging may be different, but the ultimate subjugation is pretty similar. i'm not saying they have never existed etc. but the ideology of driving those structures out has long existed and is foundational to American national ideals.

blacks don't even have it worst by far. hell I just saw a thing the other day that said Navajo Nation has 30-40% of household without running water. What the fuck? yall been 'sovereign' and sucking fat federal/communal teets for a long damn time. at a certain point, I fully respect the rights and desire to live as high on meth in a trailer as you want, but there is no better case study in the ultimate aims than many of these native nations.

 

[evernoob]

the cuts won't last, or they will and the shit side effects will further highlight violence and issues until more authoritarianism grows out of it.

The last time that an Urban violence movement took place, beginning in 1967, city-centers in this country were blighted wastelands for 35 years. The national narrative never recovered, and shifted from Meritocracy to Fairness. Diversity Initiatives and Affirmative Action were started in the 1970s, and they've never gone away, despite being struck down multiple times by the highest Courts.

So why should I believe you now? This is another permanent change in the social Narrative:

• Whites are privileged and have to be yoked
• There is systemic racism that favors whites, who don't deserve a capital letter
• Corporations have an obligation to disfavor whites and favor Minorities more than they do now
• Law Enforcement is inherently racist

I will take bets but I probably wont' be around in 35 years.

This is permanent, you denial ostriches

 

[Provience]

It's a shift in the window. Of course there will be re-sets and setbacks for them. But they shifted things.

Gillette was months ago, Corporations couldn't get on the BLM bandwagon fast enough. Doesn't seem to have deterred them

That's how change works, bubba. That's why you are a frog in a pot. You think 'Things go back to normal'. No, they don't.

and I think with more exposure that the original message that people thought was BLM, i.e. black people bring value to society, will run into the wall of black people must run society and it will be able to relax.

terry crews has been getting blasted for tweeting "we should ensure that BLM doesn't become black lives better" and his roleback admission was "we aren't there yet, but no reason not to be ahead of the curve". he's as much a Hollywood liberal as the next actor and I still think he is a good person and hope he has success in life, but it has been interesting to watch.

 

[Provience]

The last time that an Urban violence movement took place, beginning in 1967, city-centers in this country were blighted wastelands for 35 years. The national narrative never recovered, and shifted from Meritocracy to Fairness. Diversity Initiatives and Affirmative Action were started in the 1970s, and they've never gone away, despite being struck down multiple times by the highest Courts.

So why should I believe you now? This is another permanent change in the social Narrative:

• Whites are privileged and have to be yoked
• There is systemic racism that favors whites, who don't deserve a capital letter
• Corporations have an obligation to disfavor whites and favor Minorities more than they do now
• Law Enforcement is inherently racist

I will take bets but I probably wont' be around in 35 years.

This is permanent, you denial ostriches

you are correct that what we are seeing today is directly related to the BS ideology from the '70s. I'm just an optimist in that I hope the backlash against it won't denigrate into a race war I hope it will turn around and become a backlash against the shit notions of privilege, micro-aggressions and reliance on theft without responsibility.

 

[Filthy McChevy]

Gorilla Glues name is RACIST! Prove me wrong!

 

[Arickvan]

Why can't we all just push for equality??

Oh wait cuz we already have that hell we actually have a system that makes things unequal against white people

 

[Provience]

Why can't we all just push for equality??

Oh wait cuz we already have that hell we actually have a system that makes things unequal against white people

and hopefully the pushback will remove that barrier. end affirmative action and race/gender mandates.

cnn or somebody similar ran an article the other day talking about how the 'racist' trump move to end the low income housing program will likely have the opposite effect, it will result in more diversity in suburbs because 'liberal whites' won't be able to use the planning and zoning boards to not-in-my-backyard keep 'coloreds' from moving in as they see fit it was pretty funny.

 

[Hooligan]

So when do “Trump’s” racist supports (according to fake news), get to start making retarded demands. I want to defund EPA, and the federal education department. I demand states recognize the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Provience]

and here is a long article from a democrat that sort of goes along with it, albeit in a different stream

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...al-blunder/ar-BB17vOKN?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

Even as a political strategy, this silence by Democrats on these issues is a huge tactical mistake, creating the potential of a backlash for so clearly trying to deny obvious reality. Joining together with Republicans against violence and in defense of the First Amendment is a far smarter position, because these radicals who are fomenting violence won't really be supporting any party. These are not election issues - they are basic American issues, and Attorney General William Barr was entirely right in his testimony last week before Congress that one of our political parties should never turn a blind eye toward violence against our nation. It has been this way for more than 200 years, since the Whiskey Rebellion of 1791-1794 -- because destruction of federal property, like our courthouses, is not an action against one party but an action against all parties.

 

[FJC11]

Gorilla Glues name is RACIST! Prove me wrong!

It's strong.

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

It's a shift in the window. Of course there will be re-sets and setbacks for them. But they shifted things.

Gillette was months ago, Corporations couldn't get on the BLM bandwagon fast enough. Doesn't seem to have deterred them

That's how change works, bubba. That's why you are a frog in a pot. You think 'Things go back to normal'. No, they don't.

Maybe I worded my post poorly. Maybe you're just trying to be obtuse because you find it allows you to believe you're right, more informed, or smarter than other people.

In general western society has rotted as the result of its own success. This is just one of those events, but it probably will calm down and not really be an outlier. Most of the specific things you named will be undone, and we will continue on the path of slowly embracing more socialist ideals. Or maybe the pendulum has swung as far as it will, and this will be the beginning of undoing a lot of the harm caused by this misleading ideology. My post was not meant to comment on the general trend towards socialism, that's more of a bigger picture than what this thread is (or was) in my opinion. My other comment about it turning into a real revolution was added as it is still a real possibility, and it is the much larger threat than any minor long term gains they will make.

The corporate world WILL back off when they realize there is no net gain in supporting this, and only loss or potential loss. UNLESS their leftist marketing/PR people manage to convince them to double down and ride it out, in which case they will likely still back off or wind up downsizing or bankrupt. I named Gillette as the example of how this likely will work over a longer period, they gained nothing by their (not a BLM related, but similarly dangerous woke intersectionalism) marketing campaign but upheld it until they realized it was costing them sales, they believed their own marketing department until they could no longer ignore the numbers. These other companies who have now endorsed BLM will likely follow suit as they realize it is hurting their bottom line by endorsing this movement, as there is nearly zero upside by endorsing this unless they are facing an extortion situation (such as the poor businesses in the riots who are endorsing BLM to hopefully prevent damage to their property), and absolutely there is downside as people who are aware of what is going on will actively avoid those brands. Redbull I used as an example of a company that is informed on the issue and would not allow it to become part of their marketing as they know there is minimal potential upside and definite downside.

As to your pot of water and frog comparison, the frog will just jump out. It's a stupid simile that adds nothing to the discussion, but I will note that you did intend it as an insult.

 

[evernoob]

So when do “Trump’s” racist supports (according to fake news), get to start making retarded demands. I want to defund EPA, and the federal education department. I demand states recognize the 2nd Amendment.

I know you're exaggerating, but Trump has rolled back a lot of regs. Because we are sane, we know we need the EPA, especially since we are Ourdoorsmen. I like eating fish without going cross-eyed. I never even saw a Turkey until I moved back in the 90s, now they're a plague. Like fuckin geese.

De-fund Women's Studies, Black Studies, Communists, Social Justice education. Keep the Education department, re-imprison Bill Ayers and root Communism out of the curricula

 

[bdkw1]

we know we need the EPA,

Bull fucking shit. Those greedy cock smokers have never solved a pollution problem, They have just made them move to other country's with much more relaxed environmental laws. The EPA has caused public lands destruction on more than 1 occasion. .

 

[DMG]

Bull fucking shit. Those greedy cock smokers have never solved a pollution problem, They have just made them move to other country's with much more relaxed environmental laws. The EPA has caused public lands destruction on more than 1 occasion. .

No. When the epa was created, it was necessary. If we eliminate it, things will regress in a bad way. Like every alphabet agency, the EPA needs to restrained

 

[gt1guy]

Maybe one day black folk will realize the the best thing to ever happen to them, was their ancestors being shipped off to the good ol USA to pick fucking cotton. That's just a fact. If that had not happened they'd still be living in huts with dirt floors and no electricity, running water, or sewers. The only thing that hasn't changed, is the fact that they just seem to have a hankering for killing each other.

Change my mind




All this bending over for them is getting way past ridiculous. 13% of the population has the other 87% scared. Strange times we're living in.

 

[Provience]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wh...rtan-ntp-feeds

from the horses mouth, if anybody questions the "official" motives and aims of black lives matter, not the true words, but the political phrase and the organization and fundraising

"During Black August, we honor Black freedom fighters, many of whom were killed by the state or imprisoned for defending Black lives," Monifa Bandele with the Movement for Black Lives said in a statement to CNN.

"This month is a time to reflect and learn about the legacies of Black revolutionaries, while we rededicate ourselves to the protracted struggles against white supremacy, colonialism, capitalism, and imperialism. We study, plan, and pledge to continue the work and fight for Black liberation."

does it anywhere mention police brutality or accountability? Anywhere? just a hint? Even a nod?

no, they don't and never have given a fuck about brutality or reform or any of those 'agreeable' white-washed positions.

edit: with this continued "okay, you have our attention, now say something" aspect of free speech, it is undeniable to highlight what their 'grievances' are and they are wholly anti-enlightenment and anti-western and anti-American. This is a major difference between the modern movement and the mid century civil rights movement and the mid last century abolitionist movement. it is the 'tween wars (or post industrial if you will) anti-capitalist movement which grew into the fringe civil rights nationalist movements, which is successfully center stage, mainstream left today.

edit2: the article is less important than the quote