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Emulating M855 with CFE 223

Roverhound

Roverhound

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Jun 5, 2020
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So I have 1000 Wolf ss109 bullets, green tip, 1000 LC prepped and primed brass, primed with CCI 450.
I'm trying to emulate the M855 load of 3110 fps using this combination.
I can use the data for 62 gr bullets off of Hodgdon's site but from the research I've done, I can't find anything on the ss 109 bullets themselves.
I really didn't want to do anything but copy the characteristics of factory ammo just like I have picked up a box from the store. It seems the data given is pretty widespread.
I'm not wanting to do load development as I'm not trying to produce a load for a particular rifle as these would be used for plinking, varmint control and possibly government dispersal rounds (just kidding ATF, jeez!).
These will be fired from scary AR's.
Has anyone here worked on this problem before?
Disclaimer, yes I know all my rifles will kaboom, I will definitely shoot my eye out and busfulls of nuns will certainly die in my trying this endeavor.

Link to Hodgdon data.
https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/load-data/5-56-nato-60-62gr.pdf
 
Yes I do.
I thought about some quicky load development such as loading 5 at different charges and chronographing them and look for pressure signs. I also thought about loading for 3110 fps following the available data but unfortunately these bullets don't seem to have load data.
 
Wolf gold stuff is tiawanese military stuff that wolf got the rights to bring in and is generally pretty good quality.

I would weigh a few of the bullets to verify weight and general consistency, load up a mag or 2 worth of the middle of the range loading. Check then for function accuracy and cycling, lockback on empty mag, etc. Then if you're happy with all
that, load up the rest.

62gr. LoadingS aren't the most accurate loads anyway.
 
Yeah, not really looking for super accuracy, just something to shoot without digging into my stock pile which is why I don't really want to do a lot of load development stuff.
I'll be shooting them out of a 20" rifle length and a 16" carbine length AR's. Both BA barrels in 5.56. Mostly in the carbine with a 1-7 twist.
 
I prefer Nosler’s data, Hornady and Hodgdon usually show max loads well below factory velocity. Nothing for an M855 bullet, but they show 27.0 gr of CFE223 is the max load for 60/62 gr at .223 pressures and will do 3150 fps, though it’s a 26” 1:7 twist barrel.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/223-remington/

I’d probably just start there and see how close the POI is to the military 855. If you don’t have a chronograph, that’s all that really matters.
 
I loaded 20 at 26 gr. I'll run 10 through my carbine and 10 through my rifle and check for function and pressure signs.
You're right, there was something questionable to me about the Hodgdon data. It seemed pretty low to me.
 
Is that a compressed load? My data says 103% case fill and 2850fps.
 
Noslers website has it at 3037 fps and 95% case fill.
 
If you're loading for SS109, why are you using Nosler data? A Nosler 60g Partition bullet is .785" long, and an IMI SS109 is .905" long... almost 1/8" difference in seating depth when both are seated for 2.260" COAL. That's a big difference.
 
Do you have data for the ss109? Because I can't find any, hence this thread.
What bullet did you use for your data? I'm assuming quick load? If so, what does it show to achieve 3110?
That is also a big difference in case fill estimates.

Edit: If I use Hodgdons data for the Barnes 62 gr TAC-X, which is .942 and seated to 2.250, 26 grains buts me right in the middle which is why I choose it as a starting point.
 
Last edited:
Roverhound said:
Do you have data for the ss109? Yes, Quickload.
Because I can't find any, hence this thread.
What bullet did you use for your data? IMI SS109
I'm assuming quick load? If so, what does it show to achieve 3110? It shows 28g at 64kPSI: ! Dangerous Load Do Not Use !
That is also a big difference in case fill estimates. .223 vs 5.56, I assume.

Edit: If I use Hodgdons data for the Barnes 62 gr TAC-X, which is .942 and seated to 2.250, 26 grains buts me right in the middle which is why I choose it as a starting point. Your experience and mine are different, I work up from 10% below my expected max. Especially if I'm loading with "equivalents" and near max chamber pressures.
Click to expand...

.Have fun and be safe
 
Fired off my 20 rounds. Cycle and lock back worked fine on both firearms.
The primers are showing signs off flattening so I am going to back off .2 grains and try again. If these don't show any signs I'll run them over my chronograph and see what velocity I get.
 
If you watch the MK262 (77g) clone videos from Johnnys Reloading Bench, you'll see that CFE was not able to get the desired velocity. Seems tonbe the same for the SS109. Don't know what the NATO spec is foe M855, but likely a custom powder or blend.
 
I would be more interested in a safe load that has good accuracy than chasing velocity numbers. Something hit at 2950 fps rather than 3100 fps isn't going to know the difference. If you chrono the factory M885 rounds there is a 99% chance they won't hit the rated number either. Search ladder test and load a few rounds at multiple charges starting a few grains from max and working up in .5 grain increments. Pick the best accuracy and load up and down in .2 grain increments to get the best charge. Every powder/bullet/primer/case/COAL combo will be a bit different. I'd rather have a 1.5" MOA load 100 fpfs slower than a faster 3" MOA load .
 
I use H335 for 5.56 ammo. 3100fps, but with SS109’s 2moa is luck. The bullets just aren’t that good.
 
I've been using CFE223 for 22 Nosler and have great accuracy from it in several weight bullets. I have 2 uppers for this caliber. One for light bullets and one for heavy.
I'm not unfamiliar with loading for accuracy, I was just trying to cheat.
I think I will work up loads for this but I'm not going to spend much time for plinking ammo.
 
78bronco460 said:
I use H335 for 5.56 ammo. 3100fps, but with SS109’s 2moa is luck. The bullets just aren’t that good.
Click to expand...

That's been my experience as well, but haven't tried them in my 24" Les Baer as it's chambered in .223, but in my 20" Ballistic Advantage barreled PRS gun, various 16 and 18" AR's it's barely better than an AK. A buddy has a 16" LaRue and it WILL shoot 1-2 MOA with PMC X-tac 855, surprised the shit out of me.
 
Roverhound said:
I've been using CFE223 for 22 Nosler and have great accuracy from it in several weight bullets. I have 2 uppers for this caliber. One for light bullets and one for heavy.
I'm not unfamiliar with loading for accuracy, I was just trying to cheat.
I think I will work up loads for this but I'm not going to spend much time for plinking ammo.
Click to expand...
Did you ever find a recipe? I'm in the same boat trying to look for loading data
 
Surfy0 said:
Did you ever find a recipe?
Click to expand...
cfe223 is iirc pretty doggone slow powder for 223, like blc2 or h380
fill case to the base of the neck, smush bullet down on it
season with paprika and garlic

you probably will run outta case capacity before you start flattening primers
 
[486] said:
cfe223 is iirc pretty doggone slow powder for 223, like blc2 or h380
fill case to the base of the neck, smush bullet down on it
season with paprika and garlic

you probably will run outta case capacity before you start flattening primers
Click to expand...
I'm using N140 for 70g Bergers (3045fps) and Varmint Power Pro for 77g SMK's (2736fps). I'd love to try 8208 XBR but it's been unobtanium for years now.
 
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