dumb AR around 20-24"

[[486]]

Thinking about tossing together a target upper. Never really fiddled around with the concept of 'accuracy' before.

on the upper itself, I've heard of people saying that the interface between barrel nut and the flat top upper's rail is rather flexible. I've seen the monolithic uppers and one steel upper that seem like they'd alleviate this concern. Maybe it's nothing to be concerned about. Just easy enough to see force on a float tube acting on the barrel through the barrel nut, with the scope on the upper... Dunno, man. A $50 generic flat top 99% just as good?

barrel, assuming 77gr stuff wants a 1-8 or 1-7 twist. Chamber, the 'new hotness' when I last looked was the .223 wylde chamber, that the go-to still? It'll certainly be in .223/5.56 and prolly 77gr handloads because I'm cheap, will be loaded to magazine length so I'd like to avoid a really long throat like the 5.56 chamber's got. Any manus stand out as 'the obvious choice'?

All likelihood it'll sit in the corner without glass next to a couple boxes of bullets and some hand sorted once-fired brass for the next 5 years.

 

[Chevy_man]

I would see if you can find an upper with a nice tight fit to your barrel. Like needs heat tight. Lapping the receiver face square never hurts either. I have successfully used green lock-tight to "bed" barrel extensions in and experienced an improvement in consistency.

223 chamber will work fine. 5.56 chamber will work fine. Don't need to jamb the bullet into the lands. Bring them back .080 or more and the accuracy will usually stay through the entire barrel life. Chasing the lands is stupid, and I quit doing it when I started shooting stuff that would change measurements over the course of a match.


1:8 works fine. Bullet length dictates twist, not weight. 1:7 was designed for the tracers that are way long for weight. There's several barrel twist stability calculators out there for you to play with. At my elevation I can shoot 69s out of a 1:9, so it's all relative.

White oak makes some damn good barrels. Have a 6 Hagar from them in a rifle +2 gas and 24" long. It's a hammer, and it can be like cheating in a match when the wind flags drop and you can send 3 onto the target before the next gust all in the air at the same time.


Handguard doesn't matter much so long as it's free floated and sturdy. Nordic components is fairly local to you if you want to try and support local.


Good trigger of your favorite flavor, and whatever lower you can find so long as it's in spec. I have plenty of Anderson's and they shoot exactly the same as any of my expensive lowers I bought first because they were more expensive and arfcom said they were more accurate.

 

[FrankenToy]

My last 20" I used a Wilson barrel (1 in 9, I reload 55 gr exclusively) and a surprisingly good Rock River Arms 2-stage trigger. It's not a drop in but for <$100 it beats the others. I put one of my ACOGs on it, because...

 

[kf4zht]

Good barrel, good bolt (buy fit from the maker if you can). True the recieiver and if it's not tight in the fit use a compound to fill it in. Decent trigger, steel mags so you can run a little longer bullets

I don't see the monolithic uppers helping unless you are running optics forward of the upper rail. There are some uppers with more meat to them, that might be worth it. I'd pick a rail with a solid way to mount a bipod. You can get pretty Mickey mouse when you need a bunch of stacked adapters

 

[[486]]

I don't see the monolithic uppers helping unless you are running optics forward of the upper rail.

had heard the theory from someone shilling a steel upper so probably bullshit
was figuring that rather than hanging the bipod off the barrel nut and the optic off the rec behind that interface would maybe help a bit
like how a screw build AK with a side rail will not hold zero, you know?

didn't know about the steel mags allowing a longer seating depth, suppose it makes sense that they'd be thinner metal than the alu. Probably could cut the front off a mag, too if I wanted something like a 5-10 rounder, just let the front of the mag well keep everything combobulated
oh, those cammenga EZmags would prolly be longer inside, they don't got the doubled up sheetmetal at the front, just the slidey u-channel bit.

'interesting' to see all the talk of lower shit when I said right up top that I'm tossing together an upper
none of you guys shine up generic mil-spec parts? For shame.

Guess I'll just keep an eye out for any deals on a heavy barrel with the wylde chamber, lap the lugs and loctite it into whatever cheap upper.

Mannequin image macro, "ackuracey"

 

[kf4zht]

didn't know about the steel mags allowing a longer seating depth, suppose it makes sense that they'd be thinner metal than the alu. Probably could cut the front off a mag, too if I wanted something like a 5-10 rounder, just let the front of the mag well keep everything combobulated
oh, those cammenga EZmags would prolly be longer inside, they don't got the doubled up sheetmetal at the front, just the slidey u-channel bit.

I should have said "metal" mags. Pmags and the like cut your load length short.

 

[Chevy_man]

My last 20" I used a Wilson barrel (1 in 9, I reload 55 gr exclusively) and a surprisingly good Rock River Arms 2-stage trigger. It's not a drop in but for <$100 it beats the others. I put one of my ACOGs on it, because...

Larue makes a surprisingly good trigger. I have both, and it's easier to order his at $89 than find a RR in stock. They both feel similar.


Depending how fancy you want to get, there's a handguard with ARCA rail on the bottom and m-lok at 3,6,9.
I have went deep down the rabbit hole and have ARCA on the tripod, ckye pod, and converted a Harris.
Screw the cheese grater pic rail, and the bolt-on m-lok. ARCA is where it's at. It just sucks RRS is so damned expensive!

 

[TrikeKid]

Depending how fancy you want to get, there's a handguard with ARCA rail on the bottom and m-lok at 3,6,9.
I have went deep down the rabbit hole and have ARCA on the tripod, ckye pod, and converted a Harris.
Screw the cheese grater pic rail, and the bolt-on m-lok. ARCA is where it's at. It just sucks RRS is so damned expensive!

What's the advantage of ARCA vs Mlok for a bipod? Not a stack of adapters but a straight Mlok mount like Magpul sells.

 

[Roc Doc]

What's the advantage of ARCA vs Mlok for a bipod? Not a stack of adapters but a straight Mlok mount like Magpul sells.

You can slide the bi-pod for a better angle. Not an issue shooting off a bench so much, but for shooting uphill from prone it helps.

 

[Roc Doc]

Thinking about tossing together a target upper. Never really fiddled around with the concept of 'accuracy' before.

on the upper itself, I've heard of people saying that the interface between barrel nut and the flat top upper's rail is rather flexible. I've seen the monolithic uppers and one steel upper that seem like they'd alleviate this concern. Maybe it's nothing to be concerned about. Just easy enough to see force on a float tube acting on the barrel through the barrel nut, with the scope on the upper... Dunno, man. A $50 generic flat top 99% just as good?

barrel, assuming 77gr stuff wants a 1-8 or 1-7 twist. Chamber, the 'new hotness' when I last looked was the .223 wylde chamber, that the go-to still? It'll certainly be in .223/5.56 and prolly 77gr handloads because I'm cheap, will be loaded to magazine length so I'd like to avoid a really long throat like the 5.56 chamber's got. Any manus stand out as 'the obvious choice'?

All likelihood it'll sit in the corner without glass next to a couple boxes of bullets and some hand sorted once-fired brass for the next 5 years.

I bought a Les Baer upper when they were in the AR game. 24" heavy varmint, .223 "match" chamber 1:8 twist and it shoots real well. Currently using Gold Metal Match AR primers, Power Pro Varmint, and 77g SMKs, but just got a swinging deal on some 70g Bergers. Currently it has a 1-12x USO scope on it so I can use it in a limited class of PRS.

 

[Aisin]

Larue makes a surprisingly good trigger. I have both, and it's easier to order his at $89 than find a RR in stock. They both feel similar.


Depending how fancy you want to get, there's a handguard with ARCA rail on the bottom and m-lok at 3,6,9.
I have went deep down the rabbit hole and have ARCA on the tripod, ckye pod, and converted a Harris.
Screw the cheese grater pic rail, and the bolt-on m-lok. ARCA is where it's at. It just sucks RRS is so damned expensive!

Fuck anything Larue. He is anti 2A.

 

[Aisin]

Also, 24" is a waste for 5.56/.223. IIRC the performance drop off is at 20"

False. 5.56 doesn’t drop velocity until after 26 inches of barrel length. I am talking M855 specifically. At 26 inches of barrel average velocity is 3280.

 

[[486]]

To be fair, this argument has been had a 100 times and it really depends on who you believe for your data as it is generally inconsistent.

imagine slower powders make bigger differences
either way, I know full well an 11.5 would probably group tighter
I want the barrel length both for velocity and so the shit's a li'l bit quieter
similar reason I'm looking for a 30"+ 12ga barrel to stick onto an auto-5 barrel extension, not because it'll shoot any better, just because it'll be a foot further from my ears

I bought a Les Baer upper when they were in the AR game. 24" heavy varmint, .223 "match" chamber 1:8 twist and it shoots real well. Currently using Gold Metal Match AR primers, Power Pro Varmint, and 77g SMKs, but just got a swinging deal on some 70g Bergers. Currently it has a 1-12x USO scope on it so I can use it in a limited class of PRS.

thanks man, just seen that powder brand recently and thought it was a cheap knockoff lol
I'll prolly go 1:7 just because the shit is unlikely to ever go above 650 feet of elevation and might get shot at -20F
Heavy air needs more spin, so I hear

 

[Chevy_man]

What's the advantage of ARCA vs Mlok for a bipod? Not a stack of adapters but a straight Mlok mount like Magpul sells.

Can't move m-lok without an Allen wrench.

ARCA stuff is all a knob or lever. Pop it loose, move it where you need it, crank it down.

The Magpul bipod feels like a joke. I didn't play with one long enough to break it, but it didn't inspire confidence.

 

[Chevy_man]

Fuck anything Larue. He is anti 2A.

Where did he state this?

Not arguing, as he's the kind of dipshit that would be, along with a scary large part of our military. Just genuinely would like a reference to it.


He's a douche canoe in general, but he does actually make and ship triggers unlike most of his stuff.

 

[Aisin]

Where did he state this?

Not arguing, as he's the kind of dipshit that would be, along with a scary large part of our military. Just genuinely would like a reference to it.


He's a douche canoe in general, but he does actually make and ship triggers unlike most of his stuff.

He wanted bumpstocks banned.

 

[Roc Doc]

thanks man, just seen that powder brand recently and thought it was a cheap knockoff lol
I'll prolly go 1:7 just because the shit is unlikely to ever go above 650 feet of elevation and might get shot at -20F
Heavy air needs more spin, so I hear

If I had to do it over, I think I would have gone 1:7, but at the time I only had one other AR, and I wanted this one to be able to shoot from 50g to 77g, which it does. But to be fair, my 20" Ballistic Advantage gun does the same, check out how good the 69g Privi and the 50g AE Varmint Grey tip shot at 100.

 

[kf4zht]

Criterion barrels has a decent discount with code executivefirearma right now. I was looking at an 18" barrel but I think they have some longer ones in stock

 

[kf4zht]

Eff it. Ordered a criterion 18"

Now I have to buy another damn scope. Getting tired of buying optics and there don't seem to be as many deals out as there used to be

 

[TrikeKid]

Eff it. Ordered a criterion 18"

Now I have to buy another damn scope. Getting tired of buying optics and there don't seem to be as many deals out as there used to be

Check out the used/demo section on EuroOptic. Lots of it seems like stuff that sat on a showroom shelf or is end of life for the product. I bought a red dot for one of my carbines the other day for 25% or so off the normal cost and it showed up in a sealed box.

 

[Roc Doc]

Eff it. Ordered a criterion 18"

Now I have to buy another damn scope. Getting tired of buying optics and there don't seem to be as many deals out as there used to be

I just picked up another one of these. At $650 I think it's a good deal.

Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 EBR-2C MRAD Scope PST-5258

 

[[486]]

223 brass for chasing accuracy
random range pickups and 'sort by price cheapest first' 55gr pills are all I've ever loaded, ended up with some SMKs and want to take the time to put them together right without going obscenely benchrest overboard

it worthwhile to buy one lot of 'good' brass (brand rec, plz)
or should I just put a few hundred pieces of fired pickup brass outta the bucket and onto the scale to get a lot of a hundred that ought to have similar internal volume since they've got similar weight, then anneal the necks so that they're all more or less the same tension

 

[total newb]

Watch sotar's (school of the american rifle) vids on youtube and youll learn pretty quickly all mfg have pass and fails on all parts.

He does a lot of very infomative vids on assmebly and checking.

Ask of fb and its a pissing contest and shit fest of who can spend the most to feel superior over those who dont.

Best way your gona find a "good" part is to got to shop with gauges/mics and measure them out in person. Or buy 50, and return the rest.


Im poor as shit and so far, all my cheap garbage funtions.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I just have a hard time understanding having a barrel more than 16"-18" on any rifle but some long dong super mag.

 

[[486]]

maybe I shouldn't have bumped old bread but made new instead

oh well

 

[Steve300xcw]

Didnt even realize its an old thread

 

[Chevy_man]

223 brass for chasing accuracy
random range pickups and 'sort by price cheapest first' 55gr pills are all I've ever loaded, ended up with some SMKs and want to take the time to put them together right without going obscenely benchrest overboard

it worthwhile to buy one lot of 'good' brass (brand rec, plz)
or should I just put a few hundred pieces of fired pickup brass outta the bucket and onto the scale to get a lot of a hundred that ought to have similar internal volume since they've got similar weight, then anneal the necks so that they're all more or less the same tension

Weight changes drastically with case head thickness. There's zero chance you get similar internal volumes by weight.


Lake City is actually pretty good and dirt cheap. Sort by year if you want to get fancy.

Lapua is always a solid choice for great brass. Alpha, Peterson, and Norma are good, but harder to find.

Winchester/Federal/Remington is hit and miss.

 

[total newb]

maybe I shouldn't have bumped old bread but made new instead

oh well

No i derped and skipped the time frame and your ?.

 

[[486]]

Weight changes drastically with case head thickness. There's zero chance you get similar internal volumes by weight.


Lake City is actually pretty good and dirt cheap. Sort by year if you want to get fancy.

Lapua is always a solid choice for great brass. Alpha, Peterson, and Norma are good, but harder to find.

Winchester/Federal/Remington is hit and miss.

I was figuring that since the chamber and bolt face bound the external volume of the case, the internal volume would be able to be sorted by weight.

Thanks for the specific recs, I'll look around for lapua stuff and save the LC that's coming off the win white box floor sweepings I bought that's throwing 4" patterns at 100. It might all be one lot, who knows lol

 

[Chevy_man]

I was figuring that since the chamber and bolt face bound the external volume of the case, the internal volume would be able to be sorted by weight.

Thanks for the specific recs, I'll look around for lapua stuff and save the LC that's coming off the win white box floor sweepings I bought that's throwing 4" patterns at 100. It might all be one lot, who knows lol

You already have the LC and it's free, give it a try.


Winchester is having issues running the plant. Not nearly the quality that federal was running.

I have an old dpms that has put everything in 2" and nothing under 1". Even that old slut won't do 2" with the frontier or Winchester.


You can always water sort. Just takes a syringe and patience.

I just found that using both water and weight that they don't correlate much. Basically there was zero point in weight sorting.


If it makes you feel better, I found huge increases in consistency with an inside neck mandrel to set neck tension, and a good scale. Found zero difference uniforming primer pockets.
The Hornaday scale for $300 was crap, lucky if it was throwing within .5grn.

Bought a fx120i and auto-trickler v4. ES on velocity dropped from the 30-40 range to 10 or less. Inside neck mandrel had dropped it from 75-100 to 30-40.


I'm thinking the bench rest guys spending $4k+ on a primethius are crazy, but they're wanting a powder scale to put es at 1.