DKA Motorsports Jeep Comanche Ultra4 4500 Build Thread

[tribal4krawler]

I figured since the Jeep part "Manche" will be reduced to essentially just body skins, that the build process of our current UItra4 #4659 truck into a 4500 truck will be best suited in General 4x4. Austin if you think this should go somewhere else, I'm fine with that too - just thought the thread would get the most visibility here.

Anyway, to get you up to speed if you aren't familiar with the truck, my codriver - Lance Kirk - and myself - Donnie Kehlenbeck - got a wild hair back in September of 2019 to build a 4600 truck after racing several years in an UTV. It turned into an absolutely ridiculous crunchfest of basically 24/7 building/upgrading until KOH 2020 where we finished the truck on the lakebed literally the night before the EMC, and had massive electrical failures by mile 6.

We then figured out all of those issues, and ran a bunch of races for the rest of 2020, with several 1st place finishes in Renegades and a 2nd Place finish at Ultra4 Teardown in TN.

We rebuilt everything again for KOH 2021, and felt REALLY good about our chances. Our brand new built AW4 took a dump right after Cougar Buttes and we drove mostly backwards and a little coasting forward in neutral for 31 miles to complete Lap 1. It SUCKED that we thought we'd done everything right and still had that kind of failure, but that's racing. My wife and basically all of my kids got into racing UTV's in short course (we have a few threads on our UTV's in the SXS section) and I shelved the Comanche for a while.

I started thinking ahead to 2022, and racing King of the Hammers, and the upgrades that I needed/wanted to make and realized that I'm really not interested in racing slow anymore. The reality is that 4600 is a FANTASTIC class that is somewhat affordable, but it's become a class where people are willing to literally destroy their cars every round to win. We're not willing to do that, and it's never been my style to be "Wreckers or Checkers" anyway. So, what's next? I've decided to transform the Manche into a 4500 truck. If you're unfamiliar with 4500, it's essentially a full race truck with a little bit of boxed frame, limited to 37" DOT tires, and mechanical steering. No limits on motors, transmissions, tcases, suspension (other than the shocks must be mounted to the axle). Obviously, a HUGE amount of cash can be spent building/racing a 4500 truck, but my goal is to show how people can transition their 4600 trucks into a 4500. SHOULD it be done? I don't know. It'd probably be a lot cheaper and easier to just sell the Manche and buy a 4500, but I have emotional attachment to the Manche now. So, on to the plans.

PLAN:

• picking up a 5.3 and 6.0 LS, supposedly the 5.3 is in good shape, and i'll run that while i save up money to build the 6.0 for some decent horsepower. (I plan to try to mount the LS as far back as I can for weight distribution and front axle clearance)
• Holley standalone ECU/harness with 2 guage panels (one for driver, one for codriver) *I'm SUPER excited about tossing the factory Jeep rats nest of a harness!!!
• rear mount radiator
• TH400 with Ford NP205 (input shaft swap) we'll likely need different driveshafts, I seriously doubt they'll be the same length
• reusing our BJ Dana 60 and Sterling 10.25, they're already set with Yukon Chromoly shafts, 5.38s and Yukon Grizzly lockers. I'll have to truss the rear axle
• Backhalf the truck, cutting the unibody frame off behind the cab, and doing a tube chassis with triangulated 4 link
• Cutting the bed down to where it's just the bed sides mounted to the tube chassis bed - I'll be bobbing the bedsides from the front and widening the wheelwells in the rear.
• King 2.5 IBP 14" Coilovers front and rear (I want to run single shock so that if i want to, i can also enter in a 4800 race) We'll remove the spacers inside the air bumps as we can utilize all 4" of bump travel now
• reworking the front frame section to accomodate the Coilovers, as well as moving the PSC Big Bore Steering box and panhard bar. (I may stretch forward slightly)
• eliminating the factory inner fenderwells (will have some kind of removeable sheet metal inner fenders that mount to the front engine cage section
• reworking the cab floor area with sheetmetal, both so i can lower the driver seat to not boink my head on the cage anymore, and also so we can more easily access the trans/tcase if we need to.
• 37" Maxxis Razr MTs if we can get them, we've run the 35s for 2 years and they've been AWESOME

My goal is to have all of this completed by the end of January 2022, so that I can go to Hammers 2022 and pre-run/shake down the truck. My expectation is that if I do finish the truck in time, it won't be proven enough to actually race it at Hammers. If somehow I'm able to get all of these things accomplished with plenty of time to spare to be able to test before Hammers, then I might attempt to race it. Otherwise, I'll be happy just helping out my fellow Jammers crew.

If anyone is interested in some of the parts that I won't need off the truck, feel free to PM me. I'll be selling the ATK 4.6 Stroker, as well as several NP231s, one has a 4:1 Teralow. I'll also be selling the 2.5" Smoothbody 12" King shocks with finned reservoirs that only have ONE race since being tuned/freshened up at Hammers 2022.

 

['84 Bronco II]

King 3.0 IBP 14" Coilovers in front, 16" IBP Kings in rear. (I want to run single shock so that if i want to, i can also enter in a 4800 race) We'll remove the spacers inside the air bumps as we can utilize all 4" of bump travel now

You are going to need to rethink your shock package. The body diameter can't be larger than 2.65" external or longer than 14" stroke. You can however have dual shocks and bypasses.

 

[ridered3]

Looking forward to seeing the new-old build!

 

[tribal4krawler]

You are going to need to rethink your shock package. The body diameter can't be larger than 2.65" external or longer than 14" stroke. You can however have dual shocks and bypasses.

Thanks for that, I guess looking between the 4500/4800 rules I missed that. Kind of a bummer that I can’t run 3.0s but oh well. I might eventually go c/o & bypass but I’m trying to keep the budget in check for now.

 

[SevenSlotSociety]

LOVE this build!

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Love this truck! I've been following since you had it posted at the old place.

 

[snivilous]

I would embrace one class or the other, probably the 4500 rules, and not try to double dip. Considering they always race together, I don't see what you gain by having the ability to swap back and forth. You'll end up not pushing the suspension limits in either class, or spending a lot to be able to. 4500s can be running dual shocks, and 4800s can be running a single fat boy plus trailing arms and have no body requirements. With a single small shock and no trailing arms, you're now at a big disadvantage relative to either class. IBPs are expensive and hard to tune, if I was you I'd go with 4500 rules and get a basic coilover and bypasses, and it'll probably run almost the same price as the IBPs and you'll have way more control, more heat capacity, and much easier tuning. Plus you'll be racing against people with the same body limitations (granted it's minimal, but since you can't run a straight tube chassis like a 4800 it should be noted).

 

[tribal4krawler]

Some really good thoughts Sir. IBP Kings are significantly cheaper than running coilovers/bypasses - lBPs really aren’t that much more than a normal coilover - somewhere around 5-6k for a set where bypasses and coilovers would run more like 8-9k. There’s also the headache of trying to mount a dual shock package on the axle. That was one of the reasons, the other is sometimes there aren’t any other 4500s and I liked the idea of being able to race in 4800 if that did happen. Obviously yeah I’d be at a pretty big disadvantage not being able to run trailing arms. If one of the shock manufacturers (fox/radflo/ads/king) came to me with a sponsorship deal I’d definitely do it. I was sponsored by King previously but they’re claiming they can’t find my race team information anymore even though I’ve bought shocks through the account before. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Would you be better off starting with building a dedicated 4500 chassis and hanging Comanche body panels on it as opposed to cutting the truck up to make a unibody chassis work in that class?

 

[tribal4krawler]

Took the Manche out for probably the last time in this configuration to a big car show in Huntsville last weekend.

A lot of people really seemed to enjoy checking out the truck and asked good questions about Ultra4 and Offroad racing. I’m still trying to decide what I’m going to do in regards to the front unibody section. My current thought is to cut off the inner fenders, and fully plate the top/side and send it until it breaks. We'll hang the steering box and pan hard bar off tube that will be integrated into the existing engine cage and in theory shouldn’t cause a crazy amount of stress on the unibody. I’m going to start working on tearing the truck down soon (unless someone wants to gift me a good working AW4 and sponsor a trip up to Ultra4 Crandon 😂😂)

 

[Bonanza]

Boy howdy do I love seeing Comanches.

 

[Slander]

Man this is a cool truck!

 

[tribal4krawler]

Today we pulled the ATK stroker and drivetrain out to prepare for getting the LS in and all the frame modifications that we need to do.

One major hurdle that we have is that we need to figure out how to make the track bar frame mount not hit the Dana 60. If I can figure out how to repackage that, we’ll gain easily another 4” and be able to lower the truck slightly and keep the same travel

 

[boy&hisdogs]

Boy howdy do I love seeing Comanches.

Same here. They'd be the perfect compact truck if only they had a back seat. Jeep aftermarket, factory straight axle, mechanically simple but modern enough to have fuel injection.

My dad has an XJ, and I always get excited when I see an MJ, especially a built one, because it's like the rig I rode around in with my dad as a teenager and emerging 4x4 enthusiast, but a pickup and therefore cooler!

 

[boy&hisdogs]

This might sound dumb but I really like that there's a fire extinguisher in plain view on the outside of the truck. I think it's great that anyone who witnesses a crash could help out just in case the driver/passenger get knocked unconscious.

Is that part of the regs or just a thing you did on your own?

 

[tribal4krawler]

This might sound dumb but I really like that there's a fire extinguisher in plain view on the outside of the truck. I think it's great that anyone who witnesses a crash could help out just in case the driver/passenger get knocked unconscious.

Is that part of the regs or just a thing you did on your own?

Yeah we are required to have 3 fire extinguishers on the truck (two accessible from outside and one inside). With all the hard hits we take jarring trans/fuel lines loose fires are a very real possibility. They will require fire suppression systems as well going forward in the 2022 season.

 

[ridered3]

Today we pulled the ATK stroker and drivetrain out to prepare for getting the LS in and all the frame modifications that we need to do.

One major hurdle that we have is that we need to figure out how to make the track bar frame mount not hit the Dana 60. If I can figure out how to repackage that, we’ll gain easily another 4” and be able to lower the truck slightly and keep the same travel

What's the plan for the old drivetrain?

 

[tribal4krawler]

I traded the stroker for a set of 14” 2.5” King Coilovers. The trans needs a rebuild, tcase is good and I’ll probably throw that on fb marketplace

 

[mobil1syn]

ask yourself the honest question if you are participating or racing for the win. based on the platform you have selected you are participating for the sake of having a look. outside looking in i think youd be better off with a tube chassis 4800 with comanche skins. solve a lot of your problems dealing with the uniframebodything. since they race the same course at the same time, 4800 would be a more enjoyable platform and less time consuming in prep than 4500.

 

[tribal4krawler]

ask yourself the honest question if you are participating or racing for the win. based on the platform you have selected you are participating for the sake of having a look. outside looking in i think youd be better off with a tube chassis 4800 with comanche skins. solve a lot of your problems dealing with the uniframebodything. since they race the same course at the same time, 4800 would be a more enjoyable platform and less time consuming in prep than 4500.

That’s a good point that I’ve actually thought about a bunch. I think if I’m able to build this truck right and race it in 4500, it’ll be a lot more personally satisfying than building a cookie cutter 4800 that won’t be competitive against the likes of Cade Rodd, Chris May, Caprera etc.

 

[tribal4krawler]

Not really been a lot to add, Covid had me down for the past 2 weeks but am finally pretty much healed up from that junk. A guy is on his way from Cali to purchase my buggy so if that ends up going through, it'll give me a lot of the funds I need to get rolling on the 4500 build. I'm really leaning towards cutting the whole front of the truck off and box tube it with the clearances and positioning we want. I'm concerned that it'll take a long time, but hopefully I'll be able to stay on top of it and keep it from turning into a multi-year project. I know that if I stay with the unibody it'll just end up being a nightmare down the road. The rear should be quite a lot easier to backhalf as we don't have to deal with steering box, track bar etc.

here's the coilovers i traded the stroker motor for - the coils are way wrong weight wise but that's alright, i knew that going in.

 

[tribal4krawler]

So, not really anything to add, been deleting the factory jeep POS wiring harness as we wont use any of it, and waiting for my buddy to recover from COVID so i can go pick up the 37" Treps and drivetrain stuff i'm purchasing from him. I'm working on ordering bits and pieces this week so hopefully in the next two weeks there'll be a lot of action happening. In the meantime, i got to thinking about how our cage is currently set up, and one of the things i've never liked is that our A pillar is unsupported (its heavily gusseted with taco gussets tho). i've attached some pictures of the general idea that i have to remedy this, but the issue is that the door opening is VERY tight. If i put the a pillar support straight up and down like you'd normally do, the width of the door opening would be like 10" wide. I also would be cutting the doors down roughly 4 inches to improve side visibility (and make it easier to get out through the window if the doors get crushed) What do you guys think? i'm also thinking that the vertical support would be 1.5" .120 wall (cage is 2" .120) and the more horizontal bar would be 1.75 1.20. Another thing to mention is that i'll also be lowering the driver seat roughly 2 inches to improve my head room so the existing door bar would be more at the top of my waist.

 

[tribal4krawler]

Also am gonna chop the bed down (my plan is to actually use my spare comanche bedsides and then have it wrapped in this same color scheme) the front bumper won't be reused, i'm going to tuck the winch behind the grill (since i wont have front mount radiator) and just do tube work that's pretty low profile and ties into the engine cage. should have really good approach/depart angles compared to what we've been used to (and we'll obviously also have 37s vs the 35s)

 

[chaplinfj60]

Not really been a lot to add, Covid had me down for the past 2 weeks but am finally pretty much healed up from that junk. A guy is on his way from Cali to purchase my buggy so if that ends up going through, it'll give me a lot of the funds I need to get rolling on the 4500 build. I'm really leaning towards cutting the whole front of the truck off and box tube it with the clearances and positioning we want. I'm concerned that it'll take a long time, but hopefully I'll be able to stay on top of it and keep it from turning into a multi-year project. I know that if I stay with the unibody it'll just end up being a nightmare down the road. The rear should be quite a lot easier to backhalf as we don't have to deal with steering box, track bar etc.

here's the coilovers i traded the stroker motor for - the coils are way wrong weight wise but that's alright, i knew that going in.

the correct spring calc is pretty easy to figure out. wide open design has a you tube vid on how to do it and makes life pretty darn simple. and who knows you maybe prettty close.

 

[tribal4krawler]

Got a large chunk of the parts I needed for the 4500 Manche last night. A complete 5.3, lq4 that has ls6 heads and beehive springs and needs cam bearings, built TH400, stand-alone harness and unlocked computer and 7 37” Trepadors. I also was able to find a NP205 with the adapters I need for the TH400 so that was HUGE. I still need to order a radiator, and different fuel cell, fuel system, etc. other than that we’re pretty darn close in terms of parts collection. Now it’s time to start stabbing and fabbing.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Got a large chunk of the parts I needed for the 4500 Manche last night. A complete 5.3, lq4 that has ls6 heads and beehive springs and needs cam bearings, built TH400, stand-alone harness and unlocked computer and 7 37” Trepadors. I also was able to find a NP205 with the adapters I need for the TH400 so that was HUGE. I still need to order a radiator, and different fuel cell, fuel system, etc. other than that we’re pretty darn close in terms of parts collection. Now it’s time to start stabbing and fabbing.

I have a brand new CBR radiator you would probably be interested in. I also have a brand new CBR liquid to liquid cooler. I also have a bunch of brand new LS parts. Goat Built accessory drive brackets, Mechman alternator, PSC pump with serp pulley, Rock Tactics cromo motor mounts and head mount set, stainless shorty headers, oil cooler adapters, Pacific Fab oil pan with skid, P/S cooler with fan...ect, all brand new. I probably have 80% of your engine needs covered and could save you a ton of money.

 

[tribal4krawler]

In case you were wondering, you can fit 7 mounted 35s and 5 mounted 37s in a longbed Ram. Talk about a workout lifting close to 2000 lbs of tires in the bed. The 2 unmounted 37s fit in the backseat with the seat folded up. We’re going to dismount all the tires and put the Trepadors on my Method MR105 beadlocks. The 35” Razr MTs will end up on my dually in this picture. The racelines belong to my buddy Jeff and will be returned to him.

 

[tribal4krawler]

You know what’s super fun? Dismounting 7 35s and 7 37s and then proceeding to mount all 7 treps the same direction on our Method MR105 beadlocks. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
Nobody wanted to keep working but we pushed through and dismounted 3 of the tires and turned them around the right way. Big thanks to Lance and Brian my Colorado expat buddies for all the help. We were all super stoked that we didn’t have to run the Method spacers with the Treps like you have to do with the Razr MT. Then I went home and dismounted another 5 UTV tires to trade SlowPoke693 plus cash for his goodies he posted up above. I’m sure I’m going to be sore as hell tomorrow! Parts are starting to roll in, ls mounts and headers came in today.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

The Treps have a thinner bead area than the Razr's? Strange, I figured it would be the other way around...

I had to use the beadlock spacers with the 37" and 40" Coopers on my wifes Method wheels.

 

[tribal4krawler]

Yup by almost a quarter inch. However the treps were used and mounted for several years on the racelines so maybe that “squished” the beads some. But the razrs have been mounted for 2 years so 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ I do know at the bead the RAZR is the thickest tire in the industry. They’re a royal pain to mount.