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WaterH

WaterH

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
602
Messages
3,101
Loc
North Florida
I’ll try to make this short, but it won’t be.

I bought a 5KW military diesel generator probably 10 years ago and love it. I have it hooked in to my shop/house for power failures. It’s called “tactical quiet” and is very quiet. The military under rates them so it can run 5KW+ for month straight. Great machine that I highly recommend.

Fast forward to 2 years ago, I came across a 10kw tactical quiet generator for a good price. I bought it not running. I got it started pretty quick, but it ran weird. It would run fast and hard right away and you couldn’t dial the speed down. If the speed is not right, it will not make 60 HZ. It also made tons of black smoke and run hot quickly. When you shut it off, it would run on for 2-3 minutes. I would work on it a couple days and then get pissed and not look at it for three months. Hence, no worky for two years.

Last week I discovered that the number one cylinder was being over fueled. The other three cylinders would be throttled back by the governor and still would run fast. This diesel is different then all my other diesel engines in that it has a separate fuel pump for each fuel injector. So I plugged the fuel line to that pump and viola! It started right up and ran smooth and quiet. I can dial the speed perfect and it would shut down as it should. I hooked a load up and ran it at 75% load for half an hour and it did fine. It did not get hot and no black smoke.

At this point I think it’s the injector and I have one on order. This thread is not really about fixing it. It’s about some questions that this experience has raised in my mind.

1. What if I never fixed that cylinder? Is there a problem running it like this? I don’t figure it would make 10 kw, but at 7.5 kw, it is still a great generator.

2. The really crazy question- I could put ball valves on each fuel line to these pumps and shut down one or two cylinders at any time. Indeed, I could do the same on my 5KW. (It’s only got three cylinders) I’ve always heard that you should run a diesel hard every once an awhile to stop “stacking”. When I run my 5KW, I’m never at full load. I’m thinking if I shut down a cylinder, it will make the other ones work harder and prevent stacking. Does this sound crazy?

Unrelated question, I need to buy two batteries for this generator. (24 volts) should I buy red top or yellow top Optima’s?
 
WaterH said:
I’ll try to make this short, but it won’t be.

I bought a 5KW military diesel generator probably 10 years ago and love it. I have it hooked in to my shop/house for power failures. It’s called “tactical quiet” and is very quiet. The military under rates them so it can run 5KW+ for month straight. Great machine that I highly recommend.

Fast forward to 2 years ago, I came across a 10kw tactical quiet generator for a good price. I bought it not running. I got it started pretty quick, but it ran weird. It would run fast and hard right away and you couldn’t dial the speed down. If the speed is not right, it will not make 60 HZ. It also made tons of black smoke and run hot quickly. When you shut it off, it would run on for 2-3 minutes. I would work on it a couple days and then get pissed and not look at it for three months. Hence, no worky for two years.

Last week I discovered that the number one cylinder was being over fueled. The other three cylinders would be throttled back by the governor and still would run fast. This diesel is different then all my other diesel engines in that it has a separate fuel pump for each fuel injector. So I plugged the fuel line to that pump and viola! It started right up and ran smooth and quiet. I can dial the speed perfect and it would shut down as it should. I hooked a load up and ran it at 75% load for half an hour and it did fine. It did not get hot and no black smoke.

At this point I think it’s the injector and I have one on order. This thread is not really about fixing it. It’s about some questions that this experience has raised in my mind.

1. What if I never fixed that cylinder? Is there a problem running it like this? I don’t figure it would make 10 kw, but at 7.5 kw, it is still a great generator.

2. The really crazy question- I could put ball valves on each fuel line to these pumps and shut down one or two cylinders at any time. Indeed, I could do the same on my 5KW. (It’s only got three cylinders) I’ve always heard that you should run a diesel hard every once an awhile to stop “stacking”. When I run my 5KW, I’m never at full load. I’m thinking if I shut down a cylinder, it will make the other ones work harder and prevent stacking. Does this sound crazy?

Unrelated question, I need to buy two batteries for this generator. (24 volts) should I buy red top or yellow top Optima’s?
Click to expand...

interstate batteries instead of optima
 
Bacho said:
1. That injector would eventually kill the cylinder. Dad has a Cummins that was a victim of that. Look up injector washdown.

2. Yes

Sam's club Duracell batteries.
Click to expand...
Cylinder washdown? He's talking about SHUTTING off fuel to the cylinder with the issue.
 
WaterH said:
I’ll try to make this short, but it won’t be.

I bought a 5KW military diesel generator probably 10 years ago and love it. I have it hooked in to my shop/house for power failures. It’s called “tactical quiet” and is very quiet. The military under rates them so it can run 5KW+ for month straight. Great machine that I highly recommend.

Fast forward to 2 years ago, I came across a 10kw tactical quiet generator for a good price. I bought it not running. I got it started pretty quick, but it ran weird. It would run fast and hard right away and you couldn’t dial the speed down. If the speed is not right, it will not make 60 HZ. It also made tons of black smoke and run hot quickly. When you shut it off, it would run on for 2-3 minutes. I would work on it a couple days and then get pissed and not look at it for three months. Hence, no worky for two years.

Last week I discovered that the number one cylinder was being over fueled. The other three cylinders would be throttled back by the governor and still would run fast. This diesel is different then all my other diesel engines in that it has a separate fuel pump for each fuel injector. So I plugged the fuel line to that pump and viola! It started right up and ran smooth and quiet. I can dial the speed perfect and it would shut down as it should. I hooked a load up and ran it at 75% load for half an hour and it did fine. It did not get hot and no black smoke.

At this point I think it’s the injector and I have one on order. This thread is not really about fixing it. It’s about some questions that this experience has raised in my mind.

1. What if I never fixed that cylinder? Is there a problem running it like this? I don’t figure it would make 10 kw, but at 7.5 kw, it is still a great generator.

2. The really crazy question- I could put ball valves on each fuel line to these pumps and shut down one or two cylinders at any time. Indeed, I could do the same on my 5KW. (It’s only got three cylinders) I’ve always heard that you should run a diesel hard every once an awhile to stop “stacking”. When I run my 5KW, I’m never at full load. I’m thinking if I shut down a cylinder, it will make the other ones work harder and prevent stacking. Does this sound crazy?

Unrelated question, I need to buy two batteries for this generator. (24 volts) should I buy red top or yellow top Optima’s?
Click to expand...
if they're separate pumps and you shut off fuel to that cylinder you'll end up killing the pump.
 
Wet stacking happens when they sit around idle for hours on end, and the in cylinder temp isn't hot enough to completely burn all the fuel. It ends up washing down the cylinder wall and rings, and dilutes the oil if it goes on long enough. Best thing you can do is run it at operating RPM and temperature, and keep idling to a minimum.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
2 this has to be one of the dumbest things I have heard all week

Why put optima batteries in a genset? What’s the reason?
Click to expand...
everyone-needs-that-sign.jpg
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
1 it will destroy the cylinder wall
2 this has to be one of the dumbest things I have heard all week

Why put optima batteries in a genset? What’s the reason?
Click to expand...

1. Are you talking about the wash down thing?
2. You don’t hear much dumb stuff. Do you watch the news?

I like AGMs because they don’t make acid around them.

ApeEater said:
if they're separate pumps and you shut off fuel to that cylinder you'll end up killing the pump.
Click to expand...

Ah, this makes sense. I could pull the pump if I wanted it permanent, but that’s not really what I want.

Gravy said:
optimas are garbage
Click to expand...

They have been good to me. I agree they were way better 15 years ago, but they still beat the heck out of lead/acid batteries. Anyways my question was more about standard battery vs deep cycle. My generator sits for long periods between runs.
 
WaterH said:
:barf:Yes, t

They have been good to me. I agree they were way better 15 years ago, but they still beat the heck out of lead/acid batteries. Anyways my question was more about standard battery vs deep cycle. My generator sits for long periods between runs.
Click to expand...
They may or may not be better than a lead acid battery, but they are by far the worst of the AGM battery manufacturers.

It has been my understanding things took a shit when they moved production to Mexico and never fully recovered, but ... don't know if that is true, or just internet bullshit, relating the 2 occurrences.
 
WaterH said:
I like AGMs because they don’t make acid around them.
They have been good to me. I agree they were way better 15 years ago, but they still beat the heck out of lead/acid batteries. Anyways my question was more about standard battery vs deep cycle. My generator sits for long periods between runs.
Click to expand...

grumpy356 said:
AHH... When you are called out and fall back to.. "I was just joking"

Classic move that fools no one.
Click to expand...
You're right grump and I was wrong. I sure put the sarcastic slant on his words in the op, surely he wasnt serious. kind of like asking what tires to fit his lift kit. Looks like he was. in this case I am the :homer:.


:laughing:
 
grumpy356 said:
They may or may not be better than a lead acid battery, but they are by far the worst of the AGM battery manufacturers.

It has been my understanding things took a shit when they moved production to Mexico and never fully recovered, but ... don't know if that is true, or just internet bullshit, relating the 2 occurrences.
Click to expand...
Yes, moving to Mexico was bad for quality. I use to know the guys behind Odeyssey, but they sold out and I believe the production moved to Mexico also. Then the best was Northstar. But they got bought out by Odeyssey. Not sure if they moved to Mexico yet.

The problem is the EPA has made it nearly impossible to have a battery factory in this country. Kind of like chrome plating. Almost all of it has moved south of the border.
 
Change out the faulty injector in cylinder number one, I see your point in your question, but the answer is fix it and let it run on all cylinders like it was supposed to. The day you really need it you don't have to worry about if it will last or not.
Buy whichever batteries you like.
 
Question number two made my eyeball hurt. I can never decide if you’re a mad genius fucking with us or some sort of simpleton.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of engine are we talking about?
 
Gbkeith said:
Question number two made my eyeball hurt. I can never decide if you’re a mad genius fucking with us or some sort of simpleton.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of engine are we talking about?
Click to expand...
A single line pt pump and he should be ok shutting off one injector however that style usually is fed off a common rail in the head. The multiple plunger style that has individual lines you block one off and you are itching to wreck the injector pump.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
1 it will destroy the cylinder wall
2 this has to be one of the dumbest things I have heard all week

Why put optima batteries in a genset? What’s the reason?
Click to expand...
Been a slow week has it? :flipoff2:

OP - Gen set does not run right, won't make correct rpm for 60hz.
OP - Found issue- injector stuck open
OP - Is that bad?
OP - Can I shut off injector to make it not run as fast/hard

What about making it run at the right rpm for 60hz...
 
Sceep said:
Odyssey batteries instead of Optima.
Click to expand...
Walmart batteries!

Every time I need batteries I have to rush to Walmart on Saturday to get them before the local Cummins generator guy gets them. He told me he runs these batteries exclusively and has never had a warranty issue. He leave with a shopping cart full every time.

I think this thread has a record number of split off topics btw
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
A single line pt pump and he should be ok shutting off one injector however that style usually is fed off a common rail in the head. The multiple plunger style that has individual lines you block one off and you are itching to wreck the injector pump.
Click to expand...
I agree that in some applications he might not destroy anything. But just, why? I’m going to refer back to the words of somebody else in this thread.
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
2 this has to be one of the dumbest things I have heard all week
Click to expand...
 
If it's a cam activated unit injector it will probably seize up eventually and bend shit. Heui or something probably be fine.
 
X2 on the Sams club AGM Duracell ( Made by DEKA in Penn)

DONT FUCK WITH THE FUEL.

I did add a more restrictive muffler to my 25KVA unit (2-71 detroit) to build a bit more heat in the engine
 
Gbkeith said:
I agree that in some applications he might not destroy anything. But just, why? I’m going to refer back to the words of somebody else in this thread.
Click to expand...
I was inferring that it would be dang near impossible to do what he was asking without wrecking something. I left out the quiet part that this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard :lmao::flipoff2:
 
The search "Optima" brings up hardly nothing for subject topics besides "how to bring a blue top back to life". Content though, is horrendous but most the subjects are not specific. Optima would be a good specific topic for someone to start considering there was a time it was what everyone had...

I just want to add... That I confirmed my imagination last week that my new yellow top optima I purchased last year weighs almost 5 pounds less than the one I have dated 2012 in my scrap battery pile. Corners cut / or made better / whichever it's already having issues holding a charge.

I just found this online. Don't know how true it is but sounds logical:

Optima Batteries took a huge dive when they were taken over by Johnson Controls and then in 2019 they diverged into Clarios and have gotten even worse. Clarios simply cut's too many corners in the tolerances, QC and production variability.
 
If it is an MEP-803, I have one.

I bought it with 4 hours on the clock after a Letterkenny refit and it came with 2 red top optimas instaled during the refit.

I have loaded it to 12.5KW and it kept chugging along just fine. Just keep adding loads slowly and you can probably get higher... the inrush current is typically what will stall them.

As for the ball valve, yea, bad idea... something designed for flow needs flow. stop that flow and shit will go bad.
 
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