What's new
By:
Filters

Caster angle

I mocked up a spring today. The perches won’t be level at all. In this pick the perch is level, front of the spring is to the right You can see the height of the spring eyes and the axle is going to rotate way back, I’m sure I will have plenty of caster.

F50FB3E7-20C2-4EA9-95AE-683BC94341E5.jpeg
 
eacook1 said:
I mocked up a spring today. The perches won’t be level at all. In this pick the perch is level, front of the spring is to the right You can see the height of the spring eyes and the axle is going to rotate way back, I’m sure I will have plenty of caster.

F50FB3E7-20C2-4EA9-95AE-683BC94341E5.jpeg
Click to expand...
That, and the front hanger usually sits higher then the shackles. Angling them like that makes the axle move rearward as well as up more than if it was in a flat plain. That improves the dynamics. I will argue, a proper leaf setup has better dynamics than a link setup.
 
Oddball said:
That, and the front hanger usually sits higher then the shackles. Angling them like that makes the axle move rearward as well as up more than if it was in a flat plain. That improves the dynamics. I will argue, a proper leaf setup has better dynamics than a link setup.
Click to expand...

A good leaf setup is better than a bad link setup. And dollar for dollar, leaves give a great performance/$ ratio especially when the performance levels don't need to be super high (AKA redneck weekend warrior crawling and wheeling).

But there's no debate that if a budget allows for a well designed link build, and good quality properly tuned coilovers, a whole new level of performance is available.
 
Yotota said:
A good leaf setup is better than a bad link setup. And dollar for dollar, leaves give a great performance/$ ratio especially when the performance levels don't need to be super high (AKA redneck weekend warrior crawling and wheeling).

But there's no debate that if a budget allows for a well designed link build, and good quality properly tuned coilovers, a whole new level of performance is available.
Click to expand...
I guess noone understands what I mean by dynamics. The path the wheel travels when cycling is dynamics. To get similar performance to a leaf with a link, it would either need to be hard mounted at the front of the frame, or the hard mount at the rear would need to be lower than that of the axle mount. Links lose wheel base with drop out, leafs gain. Leafs have a higher variable rate then a coil. For a rock crawler, they are better and offer more clearance. High end coil overs are a way to compensate for the short fall of a link setup. Not saying all the race teams should go back to leafs. Racing is different.
 
eacook1 said:
This will be driven to every trail as I don't have a truck and trailer. This has to drive well.

So, 2.5 deg caster (stock) would be adequate but more might be better for the street and big tires.

Those on leafs, what is your approximate pinion angle in relation to the ground. This will give me a good starting point.
Click to expand...
Stock factory axle.
high pinion and done.
mine is a D.D.!
now let the bickering continue!
 
Oddball said:
I guess noone understands what I mean by dynamics. The path the wheel travels when cycling is dynamics. To get similar performance to a leaf with a link, it would either need to be hard mounted at the front of the frame, or the hard mount at the rear would need to be lower than that of the axle mount. Links lose wheel base with drop out, leafs gain. Leafs have a higher variable rate then a coil. For a rock crawler, they are better and offer more clearance. High end coil overs are a way to compensate for the short fall of a link setup. Not saying all the race teams should go back to leafs. Racing is different.
Click to expand...

You're a bit off on all aspects.

Many dudes on here fully understand suspension kinematics at a much higher level than you assume. I'm no pro, my experience lies elsewhere, so instead of diving into a physics lesson I'll let someone else explain in better terms than I could.
 
Unless we are talking caster angle we should just move on. That was the whole point of this thread. :cool2:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clb
Mocking it up off the truck is kind of irrelevant as that's all going to change once you get some weight on it. You running it shackles forward or aft?
 
Shackles toward the rear.

The only reason I was concerned is because I started building a ubolt-less pad for the perch on the short side of the housing. Since I am cutting into the center section I need to make sure I have the angles right, after its burned in I can't easily adjust it for angle as the bolts would be angled against the spring plate. Anyway, I am holding off on finishing that until I have it under the truck.

IMG_1344.JPG
 
eacook1 said:
Shackles toward the rear.

The only reason I was concerned is because I started building a ubolt-less pad for the perch on the short side of the housing. Since I am cutting into the center section I need to make sure I have the angles right, after its burned in I can't easily adjust it for angle as the bolts would be angled against the spring plate. Anyway, I am holding off on finishing that until I have it under the truck.

IMG_1344.JPG
Click to expand...

Yes, good call on holding off for the final burn-in. Looks like a nice setup!
 
I finally got the housing under the 4Runner.

At ride height:
Caster is 9.8 degrees.
Tcase is about 4.6 up if I remember.
Pinion is about .6 degrees up

Question 1. Does a high pinion still rotate up under load? This would matter because typically on a rear you set the pinion low 2-3 degrees so under normal load it rotated up to the correct position.

2. Is the pinion being off roughly 5 degrees too much for a street/crawler?

3. Would you run it with the above numbers or change something?

So, the pinion really needs to be rotated down five degrees. but this is just going to give me even more caster, I don’t really want anymore caster.

7A3BCA79-EDF4-4538-906C-753EE0BC27F4.jpeg
803B5434-9B54-4AF6-9C14-F7F98AE75D9A.jpeg
C2111C04-CF79-4BBF-990D-70D4465A1CEC.jpeg
 
Do you plan to drive at speed with the hubs locked? If not, it'll be fine. The front pinion will lower a bit under load so the angles won't be as far apart.

The caster looks good, that pinion is effectively flat, I'd leave the axle alone and run it.

It could be worth looking into raising your t-case crossmember to flatten out the drivetrain a bit but that's probably not a priority.
 
The hubs won’t be locked unless necessary.

I think I’m going to proceed with it the way it is.

Thanks.
 
I am a little late to this thread, but between 5 and 8 degrees is what I always read. I set mine to 6 when I set it up and the return to center works like a stock truck.

A cut and turn on a stock axle is one thing, doing it to one of Brian's with the knuckle gussets is gonna be a whole other picnic.
 
Yeah I’m not going to cut and turn. I’m going to set this up and see how it works. If I were going to cut and turn I would widen this housing, or buy wider housing and sell this.

I talked to Tom woods driveshafts and they said don’t worry about the pinion angle on my setup. He said it’s nearly impossible to get such a short shaft setup to run perfect. Just get the pinion up as high as I can and set the caster.

So if 9.8 degrees of caster ends up being too much I will just cut the perches off and rotate them and let the pinion roll. In my case that works.
 
Rear pinion goes up under load. Front pinion goes down under load.

You could bolt a 2-4 degree shim under the leaf pack to reduce the caster to around 5.8-7.8 degrees, and the pinion up to around 2.6-4.6 degrees. Be sure to buy steel ones if you go this route.

4 Degree Steel Axle Shim, 2" Wide | 2 Inch Axle Shims | WFOConcepts.com

Find 4 Degree Steel Axle Shim, 2" Wide at WFOConcepts.com
www.wfoconcepts.com www.wfoconcepts.com
 
I can’t shim unless I change my u-boltless mount that is frenched into the center section to match.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh