Brake/Trans/Fuel Line Plumbing & Parts Selection

[Bebop]

Has anyone ran into work hardening issues using the non annealed SS lines in their system?

I was planning on using non annealed SS for my fuel lines on a buggy. Plan was to weld tabs right off the line and bolt to the chassis (somehow). My worry is the vibrations will work harden and crack my fuel lines at the tabs/welds. Any input on this? Anyone weld directly to annealed SS line? Any issues?

What's wrong with a P-clamp?

 

[desertPOS]

To those who have done it, ss tube nuts or mild steel? Issues with galling even thought you used anti seize or no biggie?

:crickets:

 

[chaplinfj60]

I was looking at going this route for the flaring - heard good things about it:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HOXT84Y/?coliid=IIHLW5CDHGUUF&colid=25EJ3YWTQX60H&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Better writeup on Eastwood's site:

Eastwood Pro Brake Tubing Flaring Tool with 45 and 37 Degree Die Set

Create 45 and 37 Degree flares in 5 sizes of tubing

www.eastwood.com

It's been a while since I was looking at all this stuff, but I was originally looking at getting the flaring tool, some decent benders, tube straighter and good deburring/reaming tool and send it.

To those who have done it, ss tube nuts or mild steel? Issues with galling even thought you used anti seize or no biggie?

Cool that G&J offers annealed tube - will look into that. Who's annealed their own? Just heat up red hot over a purge box, or what?



Why not just sand it all and paint it?

will this tool work??

 

[RunningProblem]

I need to do a short brake line section on my Jeep. It has all stock lines so I'm assuming they're steel. Since I've never made brake lines and don't want to kill a bus load of nuns and school children what would be the recommendations of the experts? Copper Nickel Alloy? I'll be going from the Master to the soft line mounting point on the front driver side. Pretty sure I have a cheap flaring tool, tubing cutter and time.

Mostly dry environment other than snow. I plan on driving this around casually when I want to burn fuel, and just want to do it right.

EDIT: it's all getting ordered from Summit Racing. They have Stainless, Cu/Ni and steel.

 

[Opiebennett]

This thread:

Flaring Tools for Stainless?

I've got one of these and it will do a fair job on stainless in 3/16" and possibly 1/4" if you baby it and are careful. Downside is if you need to flare the end of a line that's on a vehicle. I have access to one of these at a shop I work with. It's really nice if you have to do something on...

irate4x4.com

told me i basically need the mastercool kit, and the $ spent is well spent... waiting for a reason to buy it, and the 37* flare cone as well.

As for welding to stainless tube for mounts, tubing thickness would require an internal purge not to oxidize the inside of the tube - which risks contamination of the system fluid woth little chunks breaking off over time and a leak path at a minimum. I'd use P clamps or hydraulic tube clamps like this one -
Hydraulic Line Clamps, Weld-Mount, 2 Line, 304 Stainless Steel Top Plate, 3/8" ID

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[RunningProblem]

There are a couple of knockoff versions of the Mastercool Kit on Amazon. I don't think I'll be doing so many brake lines I need a $2-300 tool.

Those weld on 2 line clamps are cool. Looks a lot better than most brake fittings I've seen held in place with self tapping screws.

 

[Wisconsinite]

Here is what I am doing on my build for some of the line mounting (brake and fuel for sure). All these parts were sourced from Mcmaster, and cost ~$4.00 per set (SS Stud, SS nut, SS tight fit p-clamp)

I am welding the 10-24 threaded L tabs so when I install the p-clamp, the L tab is hidden. It should look pretty clean. I decided to go this route vs. nutserts or just plain weld studs for ease of installation and not having to drill 100000 holes. Nutserts could leak water or mud into the chassis tubes, and a plain weld stud can be a PITA to get straight and not all janky like.

 

[RunningProblem]

Part numbers/links to those tabs?

 

[chaplinfj60]

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

holly chit you can get lost with all the stuff but here is the page goto threaded rod and scroll and scroll them bam SS weld on stud.

then go back and get amazed at all the stuff you can find in here and get lost looking at stuff and try to remember how you get back and do it all over again....

 

[Wisconsinite]

Tabs - 96466A119
Nuts - 91855A450
3/16 clamps - 4711N215

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

I've started just using 1/4-20 x 3/4" bolts welded to the frame or whatever to hold the P-clamps when doing hard lines. Its cheap and quick. I just weld the head of the bolt to the frame so the threads are sticking out like a stud. This also helps to space the hardline up off the surface of the frame a bit.

 

[Wisconsinite]

I've started just using 1/4-20 x 3/4" bolts welded to the frame or whatever to hold the P-clamps when doing hard lines. Its cheap and quick. I just weld the head of the bolt to the frame so the threads are sticking out like a stud. This also helps to space the hardline up off the surface of the frame a bit.

Are you using unplated bolt? What is your reasoning for wanting the hardline off the surface of the frame? I came up with my version of a hold down to keep it as tight to the frame/tube/axle as possible.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

Are you using unplated bolt? What is your reasoning for wanting the hardline off the surface of the frame? I came up with my version of a hold down to keep it as tight to the frame/tube/axle as possible.

No, just regular old cheapy bolts from the hardware store.

It gets the line up off any surface imperfections and keeps it from rubbing on any surfaces, that way you don't wind up with unwanted rattles or holes worn into your hardline.

 

[gt1guy]

Here is what I am doing on my build for some of the line mounting (brake and fuel for sure). All these parts were sourced from Mcmaster, and cost ~$4.00 per set (SS Stud, SS nut, SS tight fit p-clamp)

I am welding the 10-24 threaded L tabs so when I install the p-clamp, the L tab is hidden. It should look pretty clean. I decided to go this route vs. nutserts or just plain weld studs for ease of installation and not having to drill 100000 holes. Nutserts could leak water or mud into the chassis tubes, and a plain weld stud can be a PITA to get straight and not all janky like.

I've got over 100 of those L bolt welded all over my tub. Basically every 6" for all hoses, lines and wiring.

I like the acorn nut on top idea. I'll be stealing that one.

 

[Wisconsinite]

I've got over 100 of those L bolt welded all over my tub. Basically every 6" for all hoses, lines and wiring.

I like the acorn nut on top idea. I'll be stealing that one.

Also check out the nylocks. They have some with a solid black nylon cap. They look pretty nice too.

 

[Bebop]

I used these guys. Simpler and lighter than bolts and nuts.

Race Ready Products > Zip Tie Tabs

www.racereadyproducts.com

 

[RunningProblem]

Found these at grainier. I don’t need 50, but I can probably pick them up locally and have it cost the same.

https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-Mountable-Threaded-Stud-10-1LAP8

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

I used these guys. Simpler and lighter than bolts and nuts.

Race Ready Products > Zip Tie Tabs

www.racereadyproducts.com

In hard/continuous vibration that will chafe.

 

[chaplinfj60]

In hard/continuous vibration that will chafe.

i like these alot better than the one i found a couple years back, they were a flat piece of steel you welded down and zip tied too, these have a basket so to speak to hold what ever inside very cool...

 

[desertPOS]

Thought I'd post what I went with since starting this thread - ended up going with all ptfe steel braided softline for brake and fuel. Ordered everything from G&J, plus a prop valve and fuel filter

Made mounting brackets for frame rail where it's just two fuel lines and rear brake line, with a groove machined out of the back for sneaking a zip tie through

Not the cleanest machining but it'll work. Need to get a vibratory or tumbler setup for deburring stuff like this instead of flap disc/file The larger nature of these is a lot easier to square up on the side of the frame rail and tack on, as opposed to bending washers or little individual brackets and tack every single one in place and keep everything straight. Same with the single brakeline brackets, since they're still square, although smaller:

Brakelines mounted on rear axle

If you look just behind the limit strap you can see the machined brake fitting for the standard brake 'clips' - the way I'm mounting everything they don't really help me at all, and would not have incorporated them into the order if I could do it again. Since they're there though, I made a low profile little mount, and later switched out the big, squared-off automotive brake clip for some e-clips that package a little better

 

[desertPOS]

Single brakeline mounts for rear link bar. I machined a groove in the top and took a little more out a couple times until the hose clamp puts just enough pressure on the brake line to keep it from moving at all:

Happy with how it turned out, and was much easier working with the softlines than hardline would have been for all this. Couple shots with it all done:

 

[mobil1syn]

I used these guys. Simpler and lighter than bolts and nuts.

the super peasant way to do this is with a washer that you bend in half.

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

the super peasant way to do this is with a washer that you bend in half.

Galvanized plated washer with flux core 120V Harbor Freight welder. I can see it now, looks amazing.

 

[desertPOS]

Galvanized plated washer with flux core 120V Harbor Freight welder. I can see it now, looks amazing.

I don't even like galvanized, I just buy it so I can weld and breath the fumes That yellow gas'll take you where you need to go...

 

[Slander]

the super peasant way to do this is with a washer that you bend in half.

My rear axle is this way, and my front end has a nut welded to the frame for a zip tie mount

 

[mobil1syn]

Galvanized plated washer with flux core 120V Harbor Freight welder. I can see it now, looks amazing.

no nozzle, the wire was always energized, the cover removed and a box fan blowing so it didnt hit the duty cycle

 

[chumly2071]

For harnesses and hoses, I really like using these "chain links" for zip tied stuff. We use a version of them at work for routings on our machines. I weld along the straight leg to the parent surface. 1/4" wire, a little over an inch long. Being the round wire, they don't chafe like some other options,

These are CAT parts, but may be a bit pricey to buy for home use. I bought a case to have since I like using them. The eBay link is $0.58/ea.