B/W 1356 T-case

[WaterH]

Ok, I’m pretty much an expert on this T-case, but I’m hoping someone on here is more of an expert. This is a great opportunity for you to display your knowledge.

I currently have five of these cases. Two in vehicles and three spares. I got the spares in junkyards and Craigslist over the years. All of them are the Bronco style. (Short tail) If you know the 1356, you know that they came with a universal yolk on the rear and the front on the early years. Later, they put a flange on the rear. They kept the yolk on the front.

The issue,
T-cases with the flange have a slightly bigger output shaft. It has the same spline count. You can take a yolk off a yolk case and slide a flange on no problem. In fact, it seems to fit fine. You can’t feel any play. But if you remove a flange from a flange case and try to put a yolk on, it will not go. It kind of starts, but you can’t get it on completely no matter how you pound. I found this out a long time ago when I had a 88’ Bronco. My case failed and I got an older case. I slid the flange on and drove it for several months like that. I can’t say I ever had a problem, but it bothered my OCD and I ended up swaping the output shaft to get the flange to fit Correct in my mind. Why Ford or B/W did this is a mystery.

Fast forward to today,
I would like to get a custom made driveshaft for my project truck. Currently, I have a homemade shaft with the 1350 at the diff and a 1330 at the case. (Both in yolks) I really would like 1350 at both ends and wouldn’t mind a flange at both ends. Obviously, I need to know what I’m doing before ordering a shaft. Since I have 3 spare cases, (all flange cases) I pulled a flange off one tried it on the front side. It slides on fine, but the yolk that came off will not go on the rear.

So, the multi-question

Is there any problem running the flange on the slightly smaller splines? Has anybody ran one like I did for More than a few months?

Do they make a flange that fits for the front of that case?

Do they make a flange for the Superduty 60 pinion?

 

[subybaja]

Is the pressure angle of the splines different? I could see that ending up in a one-way swap, even if the diameters are all the same...

Imma let you finish, but... I've got a couple slip-yoke cases for my truck. Yuck, so I picked up an electric-shift flanged Bronco case, planning to swap the output shaft, rear housing, and flange into my rebuilt slip case. You think this'll work?

HighAngleDriveline makes anything you overpay them to!

 

[arse_sidewards]

1350 sucks. It's got terrible angle and is substantially weaker than 1410. Since 1410 has been mainstream in light truck stuff for 20yr you should do that.

A 99-04 Superduty rear shaft is 1410 and bolts right into yout bronco flange and will fit your axle flange. Ford uses 4x4.25 bolt pattern on the flanges but case and axle pilot are different to keep idiots from installing stuff backwards. All the trucks use the same two pilot diameters so stuff just bolts on as long as the driveshaft is the right length.

Since you are using Ford stuff all around it running flanges on both case outputs and both pinions with Superduty 1410 driveshafts (shortened as necessary) seems like the obviously superior solution.

So, the multi-question

Is there any problem running the flange on the slightly smaller splines? Has anybody ran one like I did for More than a few months?

Spline fits change by a few thou depending on if the spline is supposed to slip a) only when heated and or pressed b) when not under load or c) slip under load. There are SAE standards for the major and minor dimensions for these cases but as we all know sometimes OEMs often don't follow standards in order to save on retooling costs.

If you have a 31spl slip yoke around I would get out a dial indicator and check the rotational freeplay on that (backlash basically) and compare to your setup

Keep in mind that flange/yoke movement will cause the nut to want to back off so loctite is your friend.

If the pressure angles are the same I think you'll be fine. Shafts break long before splines strip so you should be ok to reduce the strength of the spline connection slightly. You really do need to measure the pressure angle and confirm though. Splines are somewhat tolerant of loose fit. They hate the wrong pressure angle.

Do they make a flange that fits for the front of that case?

Hell if I know.

Do they make a flange for the Superduty 60 pinion?

Yes. Superduty uses a 29-spl pinion shaft. This makes it compatible with a random D60 rear pinion flange. E-series will have what you need.

 

[WaterH]

Is the pressure angle of the splines different? I could see that ending up in a one-way swap, even if the diameters are all the same...

Imma let you finish, but... I've got a couple slip-yoke cases for my truck. Yuck, so I picked up an electric-shift flanged Bronco case, planning to swap the output shaft, rear housing, and flange into my rebuilt slip case. You think this'll work?

HighAngleDriveline makes anything you overpay them to!

Not sure about angles. I’ll have to look close. To answer your question, yes, you can make your case into a Bronco case By swapping those items. Did they fix the oil pump/case web problem In the rebuild?

I doubt Highangle makes those flanges.

1350 sucks. It's got terrible angle and is substantially weaker than 1410. Since 1410 has been mainstream in light truck stuff for 20yr you should do that.

A 99-04 Superduty rear shaft is 1410 and bolts right into yout bronco flange and will fit your axle flange. Ford uses 4x4.25 bolt pattern on the flanges but case and axle pilot are different to keep idiots from installing stuff backwards. All the trucks use the same two pilot diameters so stuff just bolts on as long as the driveshaft is the right length.

Since you are using Ford stuff all around it running flanges on both case outputs and both pinions with Superduty 1410 driveshafts (shortened as necessary) seems like the obviously superior solution.



Spline fits change by a few thou depending on if the spline is supposed to slip a) only when heated and or pressed b) when not under load or c) slip under load. There are SAE standards for the major and minor dimensions for these cases but as we all know sometimes OEMs often don't follow standards in order to save on retooling costs.

If you have a 31spl slip yoke around I would get out a dial indicator and check the rotational freeplay on that (backlash basically) and compare to your setup

Keep in mind that flange/yoke movement will cause the nut to want to back off so loctite is your friend.

If the pressure angles are the same I think you'll be fine. Shafts break long before splines strip so you should be ok to reduce the strength of the spline connection slightly. You really do need to measure the pressure angle and confirm though. Splines are somewhat tolerant of loose fit. They hate the wrong pressure angle.



Hell if I know.


Yes. Superduty uses a 29-spl pinion shaft. This makes it compatible with a random D60 rear pinion flange. E-series will have what you need.

I’m aware that the same flange will support several different u-joints. The 1350 is an upgrade from stock Bronco. I’ve known several guys that beat on them pretty good without issue. I already have the rear Tom Wood shaft in 1350. If it gives me a problem, I’ll upgrade.

On the splines, I really can’t tell any difference sliding the either yolk or flange on the small shaft. But there’s no denying the yolk won’t go on the big shaft. I didn’t measure the shafts to see if it’s really smaller. This Leeds me to believe that maybe the pressure angle is the difference. I will check today.

 

[WaterH]

HighAngleDriveline makes anything you overpay them to!

I just had a thought. I could chuck the yolk in the lathe and cut it down to just the spline section and weld a flat 1/2” plate on and drill the hole pattern. I wonder if there’s any heat treating on the splines that I would ruin welding?

 

[arse_sidewards]

On the splines, I really can’t tell any difference sliding the either yolk or flange on the small shaft. But there’s no denying the yolk won’t go on the big shaft. I didn’t measure the shafts to see if it’s really smaller. This Leeds me to believe that maybe the pressure angle is the difference. I will check today.

Is it possible the yoke has rust in the splines as you get closer to the nut end?

I wonder if there’s any heat treating on the splines that I would ruin welding?

Probably. You should be fine if you stitch weld it. Worse case you'll only hurt the very end of the splines.

 

[WaterH]

Is it possible the yoke has rust in the splines as you get closer to the nut end?

No, I have come across this with multiple yolks/cases. It was mentioned on the Bronco forum also. But no one knew if you could run the flange on the small shaft/splines without issue.

 

[AK_F250]

Northern Drivetrain, LLC: Northern Drivetrain 00193

Northern Drivetrain 00193, Our Price: $197.68, Normally drop ships the same, or next business day. Companion Flange - Splined Bore, 1330 series, Ø1.406x31 spline, Ø1.885 hub diameter, 4.25 and 3.50 BC, Ø2.00-M pilot, Fits 31 spline Borg Warner 1356 and 1345 front output shafts

www.northerndrivetrain.com

 

[Etyler2]

I’d hit up TX White Rhino.

 

[Pt_Ranger_v8]

You can get a flange for your axle in just about any flavor of u-joint size. Somewhere around here I have a post of where I bought mine - pretty sure it was through the parts store as well. Saved me $20 (cost of the red skull) just on that one purchase

 

[subybaja]

Yukon YY F100606 Pinion Companion Flange 31 splines fits 1993 to 2010 Ford Super Duty with 10.25 and 10.5 inch rear end - replaces OEM 2C3Z4851AB

 

[WaterH]

Northern Drivetrain, LLC: Northern Drivetrain 00193

Northern Drivetrain 00193, Our Price: $197.68, Normally drop ships the same, or next business day. Companion Flange - Splined Bore, 1330 series, Ø1.406x31 spline, Ø1.885 hub diameter, 4.25 and 3.50 BC, Ø2.00-M pilot, Fits 31 spline Borg Warner 1356 and 1345 front output shafts

www.northerndrivetrain.com

This certainly looks like the animal. They say right on top fits 1356 front output. I tried searching for the rear output and got nothing. Weird they sell the oddball front, but not the stock rear. They sure are proud of them also. I’m going to call them and makesure they know what they are selling. If they try to tell me the same flange fits both front and rear, I know they don’t.

BTW, I tried two different yolks on the output shaft and both went on about 1/4”. I measured the shafts. The tight one is .004” bigger. I don’t think that could make the difference, so the pressure angle makes sense. I couldn’t see that well enough to say If the angles are different. (the splines look real close)

 

[AK_F250]

This certainly looks like the animal. They say right on top fits 1356 front output. I tried searching for the rear output and got nothing. Weird they sell the oddball front, but not the stock rear. They sure are proud of them also. I’m going to call them and makesure they know what they are selling. If they try to tell me the same flange fits both front and rear, I know they don’t.

BTW, I tried two different yolks on the output shaft and both went on about 1/4”. I measured the shafts. The tight one is .004” bigger. I don’t think that could make the difference, so the pressure angle makes sense. I couldn’t see that well enough to say If the angles are different. (the splines look real close)

That one's cheap compared to some of the others I found. For that money I'd give making your own with a shot first, go thick on the flange and turn the whole thing down true with the correct pilot for the shaft flange when you're done welding.

 

[arse_sidewards]

That one's cheap compared to some of the others I found. For that money I'd give making your own with a shot first, go thick on the flange and turn the whole thing down true with the correct pilot for the shaft flange when you're done welding.

I would definitely try making one too.

An old Ford 8.8 or 9.75 pinion flange should be a pretty good starting point. Just remove the spline section from the middle and turn down the old yoke to replace it.

This certainly looks like the animal. They say right on top fits 1356 front output. I tried searching for the rear output and got nothing. Weird they sell the oddball front, but not the stock rear. They sure are proud of them also. I’m going to call them and makesure they know what they are selling. If they try to tell me the same flange fits both front and rear, I know they don’t.

BTW, I tried two different yolks on the output shaft and both went on about 1/4”. I measured the shafts. The tight one is .004” bigger. I don’t think that could make the difference, so the pressure angle makes sense. I couldn’t see that well enough to say If the angles are different. (the splines look real close)

.004 could certainly do it.

You need to actually measure the pressure angle.

How to Measure Pressure Angle of a Gear – Gear Pressure Angle, Gear Terminologies, Equations

In this gear design article will discuss on how to measure pressure angle of a gear and the different gear terminologies and equations related to it.

www.brighthubengineering.com