Mr.Ratbastard
Well-known member
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- Member Number
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This.
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auto insurance total loss peeps...got some questions for you
- Thread starter skyhiranger
- Start date
Black Sabbath
Smartass
Actually had to get an appraiser involved. Cost ~500 bucks. I understand the insurance companies play. If we just take the numbers from this third party we can't accused of being unfair. The moment they deviate from the "procedure" they are opening up to be sued for every claim they process.
Mikenike
Pissing off the internet
Farm bureau
BDK
Red Skull Member
I'm surprised they haven't paid the extra $1100 so you quit calling.
WaterH
Well-known member
When asking a question using abbreviations, it is customary to state the term the first time you use the abbreviation. I have no idea what ACV is or CCC1.Is it standard practice to apply a "condition" deduction to my vehicle's ACV when calculating its ACV vs comparables? My vehicle is rated at "normal wear and tear" in all areas, except in the trim and sheet metal, which are rated at "dealer ready" by my insurance and/or CCC1 (the company that does the ACV calculation). I honestly don't even know why some of the other areas aren't rated at "dealer ready"...there are no condition issues with the headliner, dash, carpets (yes, need swept out, but no wear, tears, etc.), seats (have a couple of light wrinkles in the driver's seat leather, but not at all abnormal for a 75K vehicle...I've seen the same vehicle with 38K on it they compared mine to with more wrinkles/waves in it), engine and transmission (no idea why those would not rate at dealer ready...other than if it is because they have dust on them...yes, insurance adjuster actually stated that is an "issue"). They are hitting mine with an $1145 condition adjustment deduction.
Mine is in good enough condition that I would be thrilled to be able to find a replacement vehicle with 75K in the same condition. I really don't think I'll be able to...at least not for what CCC1 is saying my ACV is on my vehicle.
Also, when calculating my ACV using comparables, the CCC1 program/algorithm deducts more cents/mile when comparing my 75K vehicle to a 38K vehicle, than it credits when comparing my 75K vehicle to a 111K mile vehicle. Same years, same trims, same options, etc....only real difference is the mileage, from what I can tell. I have several examples of this practice, with various mileages both higher and lower than mine, since I didn't agree with CCC1s initial ACV and gave them some others to compare to (and they took it upon themselves to add about 12 other vehicles to the second valuation report as well (so they could average all of them and get my ACV where they wanted it...is my biased opinion). What is the justification for this? Or is there one? When I questioned CCC1, they said their huge database with all these vehicle values can't calculate my ACV wrong. But the way I look at it, with that huge of a database, they have every opportunity to cherry pick which vehicles they want to use to calculate my ACV (and according to what I have read about the past business practices of CCC1, that is exactly what they do, in some instances).
Yes, I know I have the option of hiring my own appraiser, to dispute the ACV, which I will be looking into next week. But I am just trying to understand if my concerns I brought up above are valid, or if what they are doing is standard practice and there is no way around it, even with a private appraisal?
Bottom line is I just want to be able to buy a replacement vehicle that is the same year, miles, trim, options, condition as mine for the ACV insurance/CCC1 is saying mine is worth (15K). But what I am seeing for averages out there, it is going to cost me $1000-$1500 more to replace my vehicle with a like one.
UBERNERD
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Battled with liberty mutual years ago over a creampuff low mileage Lexus. I got more money, but still not enough for a truly equal car. First offer was 10k, accepted offer was 17k.
I redlined their entire condition assessment of my car. I didn't really put numbers to the condition, but pointed out inconsistencies. They were docking me for low gloss paint while the car was actually dusty from sitting in the tow yard. I noted all the nickel and dime things I had like two factory keys, owners manual, trunk net stuff. Doesn't really matter, but everything helped. Their appraiser never saw the actual car and only used potato quality images. Tow yard was nice enough to snap some high res images for me. I annotated each picture to explain away crash induced flaws and dirt from storage. I pointed out high touch areas which were pristine like the nav screen and steering wheel. To hide my obvious bias I did concede minor condition elements like a wear mark in the drivers seat and a single dent on a front fender. I never applied a value to anything. That's their job.
Their comps were all way higher mileage 75k-125k. Mine had 25k while being 13 years old. They would reject my comps despite being a better fit. Id ask dozens of questions via email. Didn't get anywhere but wasted their time. Next I redlined the comp condition assessment the best I could. They only provided one or two pictures of each comp. I asked for more, but they would not budge. Instead I pulled each carfax trying to find out where they were sold. Each was a dead end. Never found the car's location or pictures. I used data from the comp carfax reports like damage claims, multiple owners, lack of reported maintenance to show how inferior the comps were. I pulled my own carfax to prove mine was ideal.
Took me a while to find their Achillies heel: My car had dealer installed accessory wheels. Original bill of sale had all the details. I've never seen another set on a car. None of the comps had them. Very easy to spot in a photo. These wheels were hard to find so they were expensive at $800/wheel. I offered to let them source a used set for a reasonable value. They couldn't do it. I also needed tires since these were bigger. To hide my bias I found bottom dollar value for a set of takeoffs from eBay and subtracted it out. I stated my car had these special wheels and my replacement should also. They pushed back, but I stayed firm I wanted a true replacement. My car had one mangled wheel and the other three were easy to explain as bent from the police report. Had to close the door of them paying out only one wheel.
They wanted to un total the car. I said great I want my car back.
Most powerful weapon wasn't my autism, but time. Car was smashed in September. Didn't get a check until February. I stayed in constant contact by baffling them with bullshit. Never asked for a supervisor, she cried uncle eventually. I still lost though. Dunno if I'd do it again.
I redlined their entire condition assessment of my car. I didn't really put numbers to the condition, but pointed out inconsistencies. They were docking me for low gloss paint while the car was actually dusty from sitting in the tow yard. I noted all the nickel and dime things I had like two factory keys, owners manual, trunk net stuff. Doesn't really matter, but everything helped. Their appraiser never saw the actual car and only used potato quality images. Tow yard was nice enough to snap some high res images for me. I annotated each picture to explain away crash induced flaws and dirt from storage. I pointed out high touch areas which were pristine like the nav screen and steering wheel. To hide my obvious bias I did concede minor condition elements like a wear mark in the drivers seat and a single dent on a front fender. I never applied a value to anything. That's their job.
Their comps were all way higher mileage 75k-125k. Mine had 25k while being 13 years old. They would reject my comps despite being a better fit. Id ask dozens of questions via email. Didn't get anywhere but wasted their time. Next I redlined the comp condition assessment the best I could. They only provided one or two pictures of each comp. I asked for more, but they would not budge. Instead I pulled each carfax trying to find out where they were sold. Each was a dead end. Never found the car's location or pictures. I used data from the comp carfax reports like damage claims, multiple owners, lack of reported maintenance to show how inferior the comps were. I pulled my own carfax to prove mine was ideal.
Took me a while to find their Achillies heel: My car had dealer installed accessory wheels. Original bill of sale had all the details. I've never seen another set on a car. None of the comps had them. Very easy to spot in a photo. These wheels were hard to find so they were expensive at $800/wheel. I offered to let them source a used set for a reasonable value. They couldn't do it. I also needed tires since these were bigger. To hide my bias I found bottom dollar value for a set of takeoffs from eBay and subtracted it out. I stated my car had these special wheels and my replacement should also. They pushed back, but I stayed firm I wanted a true replacement. My car had one mangled wheel and the other three were easy to explain as bent from the police report. Had to close the door of them paying out only one wheel.
They wanted to un total the car. I said great I want my car back.
Most powerful weapon wasn't my autism, but time. Car was smashed in September. Didn't get a check until February. I stayed in constant contact by baffling them with bullshit. Never asked for a supervisor, she cried uncle eventually. I still lost though. Dunno if I'd do it again.
skyhiranger
Well-known member
I did on the CCC1.
If you don’t know what ACV (actual cash value) stands for in this scenario. You’re probably not one of the “peeps”.
skyhiranger
Well-known member
But evidently, I haven’t wasted enough of their time yet.skyhiranger
Well-known member
Thanks for the info.
They have supposedly already mailed me a check, under the assumption I am going to retain the vehicle.
I told them when they said they were going to do that, I haven’t agreed to shit. But it looks like they are trying to get this closed out as soon as possible.
I will know more this next week when I talk to a private appraiser. I found one that will do a free review of the insurance companies offer so that should help me decide whether it’s going to be worth my time and money to move forward with a private appraisal.
They are coming up with weak arguments on devaluing my vehicle based on condition, such as dust on the engine, the wheels being dirty, the carpets needing swept. Nit picky, bullshit like that.
Really the only thing they have come up with that couldn’t be easily corrected is a crease or two in the drivers seat leather. But I also pointed out a similar issue on a 38000 mile comp. I asked them how a dealer is going to correct that. Are they going to replace the seat or the seat foam? Of course they aren’t. It’s a bullshit deduction when I can find other “dealer ready vehicles“ with less miles with similar seat issues.
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Kyle
Formerly known as Kyle_T
Ah. Ya they aren’t getting anything from them.
And you are not getting any more from yours unless you hire a private appraiser.
Just don’t cash the check.
fordguy
blah.
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skyhiranger
Well-known member
A few updates...
1) I threatened to contact the state insurance commission. Insurance didn't care and just reminded me that my next step was to invoke my appraisal clause of my policy (I will be contacting the state insurance commission at a later date though and reporting insurance's business practices).
2) I invoked my appraisal clause, hired an appraiser and the appraiser got me another ~$2600 over insurances last ACV valuation. Got a signed document where my appraiser and their appraiser agreed to the new ACV.
3) I told insurance I needed a check for the extra ~$2600 and an updated sales tax credit statement...it has been a week and I have yet to see either.
4) The insurance adjuster contacted me today and asked me again if I was keeping the vehicle or not. I told her I still hadn't made a decision, since I have not bee able to find a suitable replacement vehicle, and was looking to see if I could find a place that could/would repair my vehicle for a reasonable cost. She responded by saying that she was closing my claim and giving me 30 days to make a decision on whether or not I am keeping my vehicle or not.
So now my question is...why am I obligated to make a decision on whether or not I am keeping the vehicle in the next 30 days? I have not been able to find anything anywhere that states I only have a certain time frame in order to make that decision.
I also told the adjuster I am not authorizing or agreeing to them closing my claim, since the final decision hasn't been made on whether I am keeping my vehicle or not and she doesn't get to make that decision for me.
EDIT...
I just received an email from insurance stating that according to their records I have chosen to retain my vehicle (I have never made this statement in any form...verbal or written) and that they will be reporting to the DMV that I am retaining my vehicle and therefore I will have 30 days to obtain a salvage/owner retained title. They are LYING to the DMV.
1) I threatened to contact the state insurance commission. Insurance didn't care and just reminded me that my next step was to invoke my appraisal clause of my policy (I will be contacting the state insurance commission at a later date though and reporting insurance's business practices).
2) I invoked my appraisal clause, hired an appraiser and the appraiser got me another ~$2600 over insurances last ACV valuation. Got a signed document where my appraiser and their appraiser agreed to the new ACV.
3) I told insurance I needed a check for the extra ~$2600 and an updated sales tax credit statement...it has been a week and I have yet to see either.
4) The insurance adjuster contacted me today and asked me again if I was keeping the vehicle or not. I told her I still hadn't made a decision, since I have not bee able to find a suitable replacement vehicle, and was looking to see if I could find a place that could/would repair my vehicle for a reasonable cost. She responded by saying that she was closing my claim and giving me 30 days to make a decision on whether or not I am keeping my vehicle or not.
So now my question is...why am I obligated to make a decision on whether or not I am keeping the vehicle in the next 30 days? I have not been able to find anything anywhere that states I only have a certain time frame in order to make that decision.
I also told the adjuster I am not authorizing or agreeing to them closing my claim, since the final decision hasn't been made on whether I am keeping my vehicle or not and she doesn't get to make that decision for me.
EDIT...
I just received an email from insurance stating that according to their records I have chosen to retain my vehicle (I have never made this statement in any form...verbal or written) and that they will be reporting to the DMV that I am retaining my vehicle and therefore I will have 30 days to obtain a salvage/owner retained title. They are LYING to the DMV.
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Clemson13
Evernoob is a douchcanoe
Any updates?A few updates...
1) I threatened to contact the state insurance commission. Insurance didn't care and just reminded me that my next step was to invoke my appraisal clause of my policy (I will be contacting the state insurance commission at a later date though and reporting insurance's business practices).
2) I invoked my appraisal clause, hired an appraiser and the appraiser got me another ~$2600 over insurances last ACV valuation. Got a signed document where my appraiser and their appraiser agreed to the new ACV.
3) I told insurance I needed a check for the extra ~$2600 and an updated sales tax credit statement...it has been a week and I have yet to see either.
4) The insurance adjuster contacted me today and asked me again if I was keeping the vehicle or not. I told her I still hadn't made a decision, since I have not bee able to find a suitable replacement vehicle, and was looking to see if I could find a place that could/would repair my vehicle for a reasonable cost. She responded by saying that she was closing my claim and giving me 30 days to make a decision on whether or not I am keeping my vehicle or not.
So now my question is...why am I obligated to make a decision on whether or not I am keeping the vehicle in the next 30 days? I have not been able to find anything anywhere that states I only have a certain time frame in order to make that decision.
I also told the adjuster I am not authorizing or agreeing to them closing my claim, since the final decision hasn't been made on whether I am keeping my vehicle or not and she doesn't get to make that decision for me.
EDIT...
I just received an email from insurance stating that according to their records I have chosen to retain my vehicle (I have never made this statement in any form...verbal or written) and that they will be reporting to the DMV that I am retaining my vehicle and therefore I will have 30 days to obtain a salvage/owner retained title. They are LYING to the DMV.
skyhiranger
Well-known member
Not much.
I did get the second check from insurance for the ~$2600 increased ACV after I hired my private appraiser. Still no updated sales tax credit letter reflecting the new ACV. Haven't heard anything from insurance since I told them they should be careful on making false statements to the DMV and to send me the additional money they owe me and the updated sales tax credit letter.
Looking at having my vehicle repaired. Talked to a local shop and they said they can fix it and gave me a pretty reasonable price (if they can do what they say). So if all that works out, I'll end up keeping the vehicle. But they are still a couple of months out, from being able to work me in.
Insurance kept sending me a form for me to sign, so they could go after the other party to recoup what they paid out to me. Since in MO, an insurance company can't go after the other party for reimbursement, unless I sign my rights over to them. I did not sign the form...not sure if I will. Quite a dilemma...do I let insurance eat the money they had to pay out to me, just because they were being assholes over this whole insurance claim...or do I let the uninsured party not have to pay ~$17.5K for their lack of responsibility for not having insurance? I am considering suing the uninsured party in small claims for my deductible and additional bullshit I had/am having to go through because of their lack of insurance. And I have already filed an accident report with the state, which from what I understand, the state will go after them and either make them put up the money in an escrow type account for the amount of damage they caused (so if/when I sue them and win, I get paid from that fund, instead of having to recoup the money from the other party) and if they choose not to put up the money, they lose their license for a year. They will also fine them $500 for not having insurance, either way.
I also need to follow up with the local PD and let them know that since I filed the police report that I found out the other party didn't have insurance. So hopefully they go after them as well and write them a ticket or two...but not holding my breath on that one.
And at some point, I will also report the insurance company and the valuation company they use to the state dept of insurance, for not acting in good faith amongst other things.
skyhiranger
Well-known member
Latest updates...
My experience with the places (or at least the place I dealt with) selling parts on car-part.com is less than stellar. Found some color matched parts to save having to pay to have parts painted the right color. Asked for pics to verify condition of parts, before I drove 4 hours to pick them up.
The liftgate was listed as having 4 or 5 scratches 1 unit or less. The (shitty) pics clearly showed at least 4 hail dents in the top of the liftgate. I asked them WTF is the deal with that, can't they see dents? They proceeded to tell me that if I didn't want it, I didn't have to take it and they'd just charge me a 20% restocking fee. I told them, no you won't. I'm not paying a restocking fee on a part you can't list the condition of correctly. They eventually agreed to discount the price for what it would cost to have the dents fixed. Then after I told them how much it would cost, they said they'd give me half of what it cost.
The bumper was supposed to be painted black. Again, from the shitty pic they sent me, I was 99.999% sure it wasn't black. I asked them to confirm it was black, by actually looking at it and not just going by what their system says it is for color. They insisted it was black. I insisted it wasn't. After a couple of days, they sent me pics of a completely different bumper with no explanation. So, I was right, the first bumper wasn't black.
Finally got everything worked out, or at least agreed upon and now have the parts I need to get it fixed. Can't get it in for another month yet, so I've been trying my luck at removing hail dings. Not perfect, but overall not bad and acceptable.
Heard back from the state on the accident report I filed for being involved in an accident with an uninsured driver. The state said the other party provided them with proof of financial responsibility (insurance) on the other vehicle and gave me the policy number and insurer. Said they were closing my case, but if I find out they did not have insurance on the vehicle that I could file that with the state and they would reopen the case. I knew the other party didn't have insurance on the vehicle at the time of the accident, because they told me. So I knew whatever they provided to the state was either fraudulent or the state is just stupid and didn't notice the effective date on the insurance policy was the day after the accident (since the other party told me they got insurance on the vehicle the day after the accident and asked if I wanted that information to file my claim
).
So I contacted the insurance company the state said the other party had insurance with on the day of the accident. Long story short, they confirmed they did not have insurance on the vehicle on the day of the accident. So I got them to send me an insurance denial letter, which I submitted to the state, along with telling them to reopen the case. I hope they fine them the $500 for being uninsured and either make them pay the $176xx when my vehicle was totaled or suspend their license for a year if they choose not to pay for the value of my vehicle.
Still nothing from my insurance on sending me a new sales tax credit letter reflecting the new ACV of my vehicle. Not that it really matters, since I don't plan on getting rid of my vehicle and getting another one at this point, but it is just the principle.
I can say that I do not recommend dealing with car-part.com idiots...at least the ones I dealt with, since they are either stupid or dishonest...leaning towards dishonest.
I also do not recommend getting in an accident with a POS (or their POS kid) that can't carry insurance on a vehicle.
My experience with the places (or at least the place I dealt with) selling parts on car-part.com is less than stellar. Found some color matched parts to save having to pay to have parts painted the right color. Asked for pics to verify condition of parts, before I drove 4 hours to pick them up.
The liftgate was listed as having 4 or 5 scratches 1 unit or less. The (shitty) pics clearly showed at least 4 hail dents in the top of the liftgate. I asked them WTF is the deal with that, can't they see dents?
They proceeded to tell me that if I didn't want it, I didn't have to take it and they'd just charge me a 20% restocking fee. I told them, no you won't. I'm not paying a restocking fee on a part you can't list the condition of correctly. They eventually agreed to discount the price for what it would cost to have the dents fixed. Then after I told them how much it would cost, they said they'd give me half of what it cost.The bumper was supposed to be painted black. Again, from the shitty pic they sent me, I was 99.999% sure it wasn't black. I asked them to confirm it was black, by actually looking at it and not just going by what their system says it is for color. They insisted it was black. I insisted it wasn't. After a couple of days, they sent me pics of a completely different bumper with no explanation. So, I was right, the first bumper wasn't black.
Finally got everything worked out, or at least agreed upon and now have the parts I need to get it fixed. Can't get it in for another month yet, so I've been trying my luck at removing hail dings. Not perfect, but overall not bad and acceptable.
Heard back from the state on the accident report I filed for being involved in an accident with an uninsured driver. The state said the other party provided them with proof of financial responsibility (insurance) on the other vehicle and gave me the policy number and insurer. Said they were closing my case, but if I find out they did not have insurance on the vehicle that I could file that with the state and they would reopen the case. I knew the other party didn't have insurance on the vehicle at the time of the accident, because they told me. So I knew whatever they provided to the state was either fraudulent or the state is just stupid and didn't notice the effective date on the insurance policy was the day after the accident (since the other party told me they got insurance on the vehicle the day after the accident and asked if I wanted that information to file my claim
).So I contacted the insurance company the state said the other party had insurance with on the day of the accident. Long story short, they confirmed they did not have insurance on the vehicle on the day of the accident. So I got them to send me an insurance denial letter, which I submitted to the state, along with telling them to reopen the case. I hope they fine them the $500 for being uninsured and either make them pay the $176xx when my vehicle was totaled or suspend their license for a year if they choose not to pay for the value of my vehicle.
Still nothing from my insurance on sending me a new sales tax credit letter reflecting the new ACV of my vehicle. Not that it really matters, since I don't plan on getting rid of my vehicle and getting another one at this point, but it is just the principle.
I can say that I do not recommend dealing with car-part.com idiots...at least the ones I dealt with, since they are either stupid or dishonest...leaning towards dishonest.
I also do not recommend getting in an accident with a POS (or their POS kid) that can't carry insurance on a vehicle.
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skyhiranger
Well-known member
Another update...
-I found out the mother got a ticket for having expired plates (it appears to be on another vehicle, not the one that was in the accident).
-I also found out she got another ticket on another day for "possessing the plates of another" (I am guessing she put plates off another vehicle on one that they didn't belong).
-I also see she didn't show up for her court date on that last one, and a summons was issued for her to appear (dumb bitch).
-I have not heard back from the state, so I am guessing they are pursuing the "no insurance" (that could have been where the last ticket came from, since it appears the police wrote the ticket when the vehicle was parked at her residence...or could just be coincidence).
So all in all, good news...I am glad this is costing her money, and it will likely cost her a lot more, before everything is said and done. I am going to wait and see where the "no insurance" deal goes with the state, before I decide my next move.
I have had no updates or contact from my insurance company on anything. Not that I really expected to, since from what I can tell, they have no recourse for recouping any of their money from the other party, since I have not signed any paperwork allowing them to do so. And since I am keeping my vehicle at this point (assuming the repair shop can fix it acceptably), I guess they assume they don't owe me an updated sales tax credit letter...but no one says I have to use that sales tax credit to replace my vehicle, I should be able to use it on any newly acquired vehicle.
-I found out the mother got a ticket for having expired plates (it appears to be on another vehicle, not the one that was in the accident).
-I also found out she got another ticket on another day for "possessing the plates of another" (I am guessing she put plates off another vehicle on one that they didn't belong).
-I also see she didn't show up for her court date on that last one, and a summons was issued for her to appear (dumb bitch).
-I have not heard back from the state, so I am guessing they are pursuing the "no insurance" (that could have been where the last ticket came from, since it appears the police wrote the ticket when the vehicle was parked at her residence...or could just be coincidence).
So all in all, good news...I am glad this is costing her money, and it will likely cost her a lot more, before everything is said and done. I am going to wait and see where the "no insurance" deal goes with the state, before I decide my next move.
I have had no updates or contact from my insurance company on anything. Not that I really expected to, since from what I can tell, they have no recourse for recouping any of their money from the other party, since I have not signed any paperwork allowing them to do so. And since I am keeping my vehicle at this point (assuming the repair shop can fix it acceptably), I guess they assume they don't owe me an updated sales tax credit letter...but no one says I have to use that sales tax credit to replace my vehicle, I should be able to use it on any newly acquired vehicle.