Are large compressors worth it anymore?

[CarterKraft]

Having used "shop air" (endless air) my whole adult life it's a pretty bog deal for me.

Blowing out the zero turn deck? Get the wand (1/4" brake line) and get to work, holds 90 psi until I am done.

I didn't buy mine new, I cobbled it together from various parts. An IR T-30 pump with Baldor 5hp motor and a new take off 80 gal tank from a local compressed air shop. All in under $500 cash.

 

[CarterKraft]

I need to plumb my whole shop and have seriously been considering PEX. Any regrets so far?

I wouldn't be scared of PEX at all, I would make black pipe drops so the business end would be steel hard mounted with proper drip legs etc.

Alternatively 7/8" OD copper coil tube for HVAC compressor plumbing would be awesome bullet proof setup. It was cheapish 3 years ago but doesn't seem like it now at $425 per 100ft.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I need to plumb my whole shop and have seriously been considering PEX. Any regrets so far?

Zero regrets.

Should have ponied up for the extra 20ft to do a full loop run but it still works great as is. I ran 3/4 all the way to the quick connect (harbor freight 3/8 style). The hoses and fittings are the restriction.

I didn't do drop legs either. Neither plasma nor paint gun have cared yet.

 

[bgaidan]

Zero regrets.

Should have ponied up for the extra 20ft to do a full loop run but it still works great as is. I ran 3/4 all the way to the quick connect (harbor freight 3/8 style). The hoses and fittings are the restriction.

I didn't do drop legs either. Neither plasma nor paint gun have cared yet.

I'm planning a full loop of 3/4" around the full building and probably 15-20 drops where they make sense. (Other good part I see about pex is I can just cut in a new drop whenever I feel the need.) I'll probably machine up some AL distribution blocks for some of the drops to add a pressure gauge, regulator, or multiple quick connects where needed.

 

[billybob_81067]

Zero regrets.

Should have ponied up for the extra 20ft to do a full loop run but it still works great as is. I ran 3/4 all the way to the quick connect (harbor freight 3/8 style). The hoses and fittings are the restriction.

I didn't do drop legs either. Neither plasma nor paint gun have cared yet.

This time I'm doing the full loop. Might as well... Also the compressor I'm putting in has a condenser built into it that the air runs through before dropping into the tank. I'm going to cut the line after the condenser and before it goes into the tank and add in an auto drain moisture trap/filter unit so hopefully that will catch almost all of the crap right there before it ever gets to the tank. The tank will have an auto drain on it as well for any additional condensation that gets stuck in the tank. Then my air line will come out of the tank and run straight up 10' or so, so I'm thinking of putting an auto drain trap teed onto the bottom of that line as well. I can't really do drip legs at each outlet because they will be obstructed behind benches and stuff, so I'm going to try and do without.

If I'm still having any moisture problems I have a bullard air filter housing that I just picked up at the local gettin place for $10. It's made for filtering breathing air, but I figure I could throw some SS pot scrubbers in each end as a screen and put a gallon of dessicant beads in there and try that out... It still had a filter in it, but I took it out and disassembled it to figure out how it worked. It had "Carded cotton, felt material, activated charcoal, and activated alumina" as the filter media. A new filter built for it costs $50, but seems like it'd be overkill for a shop air system...

Filter is this one:

BULLARD 41P2 High Pressure Air Filter | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BULLARD 41P2 High Pressure Air Filter at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[MigGunslinger]

My 60 gallon husky stopped working recently and I was thinking the same thing, whether it is worth it or not. Only air tool I did not have the cordless version of was a 1/2" impact and I just got myself an 18v makita deal for christmas.

I tore the head off of the compressor and got the pistons unstuck with a dead blow, not really sure what happened, maybe the oil got a bit low? Either way I did an oil change with ATF to clean up the internals a bit and she works smooth now.

Actually I have a big air hammer too, and I will have air if I ever get a plasma.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I need to plumb my whole shop and have seriously been considering PEX. Any regrets so far?

Zero.

I wouldn't be scared of PEX at all, I would make black pipe drops so the business end would be steel hard mounted with proper drip legs etc.

This is exactly what I've done. Drops are done in black iron pipe, the rest is pex. Can't be exposed to sunlight I've read, but it's been bulletproof.

 

[barrelroll]

This time I'm doing the full loop. Might as well... Also the compressor I'm putting in has a condenser built into it that the air runs through before dropping into the tank. I'm going to cut the line after the condenser and before it goes into the tank and add in an auto drain moisture trap/filter unit so hopefully that will catch almost all of the crap right there before it ever gets to the tank. The tank will have an auto drain on it as well for any additional condensation that gets stuck in the tank. Then my air line will come out of the tank and run straight up 10' or so, so I'm thinking of putting an auto drain trap teed onto the bottom of that line as well. I can't really do drip legs at each outlet because they will be obstructed behind benches and stuff, so I'm going to try and do without.

If I'm still having any moisture problems I have a bullard air filter housing that I just picked up at the local gettin place for $10. It's made for filtering breathing air, but I figure I could throw some SS pot scrubbers in each end as a screen and put a gallon of dessicant beads in there and try that out... It still had a filter in it, but I took it out and disassembled it to figure out how it worked. It had "Carded cotton, felt material, activated charcoal, and activated alumina" as the filter media. A new filter built for it costs $50, but seems like it'd be overkill for a shop air system...

Filter is this one:

BULLARD 41P2 High Pressure Air Filter | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BULLARD 41P2 High Pressure Air Filter at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Atlas copco does this on their bigger (75-250hp is what I've delt with/ seen it on) rotary screw machines with a float switch water trap you can also drain manually, some have auto drains, some don't. Think inline canister with a round defuser thing in it. While it helps i'm not sure how much it really helps and it's the only brand I've ever seen do it. They are a source of leaks and make a mess unless the drain lines are routed to somewhere the mess isn't a big deal.

You can't really beat a refrigerated or desicant dryer. There's really not that much to a desciant dryer, a couple valves/ soleniods, 2 mufflers, a timer or 2, and 2 pressure chambers full of desicant. You could probably make one for less than $1k and have half the parts in your collection all ready. Once you stare at one running for a couple cycles it's pretty simple. One side is drying air while 1 side is drying out desicant. Also if you are running air outside to equipment like air valves on slios the desicant is the way to go compared to a refrigerated dryer.

 

[SomeGuy]

My 60 gallon husky stopped working recently and I was thinking the same thing, whether it is worth it or not. Only air tool I did not have the cordless version of was a 1/2" impact and I just got myself an 18v makita deal for christmas.

I tore the head off of the compressor and got the pistons unstuck with a dead blow, not really sure what happened, maybe the oil got a bit low? Either way I did an oil change with ATF to clean up the internals a bit and she works smooth now.

Actually I have a big air hammer too, and I will have air if I ever get a plasma.

Could always get a plasma with air onboard.

 

[billybob_81067]

Atlas copco does this on their bigger (75-250hp is what I've delt with/ seen it on) rotary screw machines with a float switch water trap you can also drain manually, some have auto drains, some don't. Think inline canister with a round defuser thing in it. While it helps i'm not sure how much it really helps and it's the only brand I've ever seen do it. They are a source of leaks and make a mess unless the drain lines are routed to somewhere the mess isn't a big deal.

I just want as much water out as I can before it even hits the tank. The one I put on my compressor is already pulling moisture out every time it runs. Everything about my setup is temporary as of right now because I'm in the process of re-doing everything, so I don't have a drain hose on the moisture trap yet, but when it gets installed in its final destination, the compressor will be up on a stand and will have the moisture trap with drain hoses on them going into a drain pan as well as the auto drain on the bottom of the tank going into the same pan.

This is the compressor I added the condenser and moisture trap to, as well as rebuilding the compressor head, putting new bearings and start/run caps in the motor, and adding the magnetic starter and a timer/"compressor failsafe." I have it set to 45 minutes right now. If the compressor runs for more than 45 minutes continuously it will shut it down and you have to hit that reset button in order for it to start back up. This should stop it from running non-stop if you have a line break while you're gone from the shop.

I am also planning on adding an electric solenoid valve to the air system to shut it off from the compressor when I am not there and will put switches in multiple places in the shop to activate the system when needed...



The little deal with the green and red leds is the motor run timer. I ordered a Gaeyaele GRT8-A2A delay on time relay for this. Took me a minute to figure out how to wire it up to work properly but I worked through it... It is wired as follows...

You have to wire it up that way so that it only starts counting time when the motor is running (gets its L1 power from the same source as the motor... It always has L2 power to it as long as the compressor is plugged in. Until it gets tripped, the power flows through it's normally closed contact and activates the magnetic starter like normal compressor operation. As soon as the time limit is reached it opens that normally closed contact and transfers power to it's normally open contact that then keeps power to the L1 leg of the timer circuit. Then it latches in the on position until you break the L2 power with the normally closed momentary push button switch so it can reset and start over again.

So it only will count time that the motor is running continuously. I currently have it set for 45 minutes. The motor could run continuously for 44 minutes and then come up to pressure and shut off and the timer would reset back to zero for the next cycle. As far as I am concerned this should prevent any air line blowouts from making the compressor run continuously...

Here you can see the added magnetic starter, condenser, and moisture trap. Also wired in a 110 cord coming out of the magnetic starter for my auto drain to plug into. That way I only have one 220v plug in for the entire compressor to hook up as a unit.

Also built a motor tensioner plate to make tightening the belt a breeze.

Puddle of water after running a few cycles. The water trap is in the side of the line that unloads after the compressor shuts off so it actually automatically drains when depressurized. I doubt it will ever get full enough to activate the float to drain.

I am also doing the exact same stuff to an Ingersoll Rand compressor, only it already had the condenser and magnetic starter in place on it from the factory. Oh and I also ordered a couple intake filters so I can remote mount the air intakes down on the sides of each compressor so they aren't sucking hot air off the compressor head and hopefully having them suck through a 3' or so rubber hose will also muffle them somewhat. The main reason I decided to do this was to get away from the shitty plastic housing "air filter" on the compressor pictured above. It's a pathetic excuse for a filter. And I figured if i was doing it to one compressor I would do it to both of them and have them both use the same filter element....

Filter housing.

1-1/4" MNPT Metal Intake Filter / Silencer Housing with Element Made i

Brand new Solberg air compressor air filter / silencer housing with element. This is a top quality air filter / silencer. The filter element size is 4-3/8" outside diameter 4-3/4" Tall and 3" inside diameter. The housing is 7-1/4" tall and 6" diameter with a 1-1/4" Male NPT pipe thread. This is...

compressor-source.com

 

[arse_sidewards]

I ordered a Gaeyaele GRT8-A2A

Punching that number into eBay did not yield expected results.

Warning NSFW

How much more electrical would it take to make it drain automatically? Wouldn't it just be another timer to drain for X-seconds after shutdown use the motor starter to reset that one on startup?

 

[bgaidan]

The little deal with the green and red leds is the motor run timer. I ordered a Gaeyaele GRT8-A2A delay on time relay for this. Took me a minute to figure out how to wire it up to work properly but I worked through it... It is wired as follows...

You have to wire it up that way so that it only starts counting time when the motor is running (gets its L1 power from the same source as the motor... It always has L2 power to it as long as the compressor is plugged in. Until it gets tripped, the power flows through it's normally closed contact and activates the magnetic starter like normal compressor operation. As soon as the time limit is reached it opens that normally closed contact and transfers power to it's normally open contact that then keeps power to the L1 leg of the timer circuit. Then it latches in the on position until you break the L2 power with the normally closed momentary push button switch so it can reset and start over again.

So it only will count time that the motor is running continuously. I currently have it set for 45 minutes. The motor could run continuously for 44 minutes and then come up to pressure and shut off and the timer would reset back to zero for the next cycle. As far as I am concerned this should prevent any air line blowouts from making the compressor run continuously...

I went with a somewhat (a lot) cheaper route. I just put one of these mechanical timer switches in line with my pressure switch. Turn the knob on when I'm in the shop and it automatically shuts off when I inevitably forget to shut it of when I leave.

I also have the stuff where I could use an electronic switch tied to my home automation setup so I could control it remotely or by voice if I ever feel the need.

I also plan to add a solenoid valve close to the compressor that feeds of the same switch. Mostly because it's inevitable that the loop will have come leaks and bleed down whenever the system is off. Assuming the tank and everything before the valve is leak free, I won't have to wait to air up the tank every day when I turn the switch on.

 

[aczlan]

I went with a somewhat (a lot) cheaper route. I just put one of these mechanical timer switches in line with my pressure switch. Turn the knob on when I'm in the shop and it automatically shuts off when I inevitably forget to shut it of when I leave.

I also have the stuff where I could use an electronic switch tied to my home automation setup so I could control it remotely or by voice if I ever feel the need.

I also plan to add a solenoid valve close to the compressor that feeds of the same switch. Mostly because it's inevitable that the loop will have come leaks and bleed down whenever the system is off. Assuming the tank and everything before the valve is leak free, I won't have to wait to air up the tank every day when I turn the switch on.

I have a very similar switch sitting in a box in the shop waiting for me to get around to putting it in, mine is a TORK C412H, it is a DPST 12 hour timer so I can kill both sides of the 240V power to the compressor
I will likely eventually put a solenoid on it as well.

Aaron Z

 

[665.0coupe]

I'm planning a full loop of 3/4" around the full building and probably 15-20 drops where they make sense. (Other good part I see about pex is I can just cut in a new drop whenever I feel the need.) I'll probably machine up some AL distribution blocks for some of the drops to add a pressure gauge, regulator, or multiple quick connects where needed.

I did a full loop of 1" with 1/2" drops around the garage at my old house. I used 1" because I got it cheap from a buddy. For the simple drops where all you need is a quick connect, a shower fitting works pretty well.

 

[bgaidan]

I have a very similar switch sitting in a box in the shop waiting for me to get around to putting it in, mine is a TORK C412H, it is a DPST 12 hour timer so I can kill both sides of the 240V power to the compressor
I will likely eventually put a solenoid on it as well.

Aaron Z

I put it on the pressure switch so it's only seeing the amperage of the magnetic switch. Lets me use a smaller diameter extension cord and mount the switch wherever I want. Switching the 240v feed would mean mounting the switch near the compressor, which really isn't in a convenient location.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I put it on the pressure switch so it's only seeing the amperage of the magnetic switch. Lets me use a smaller diameter extension cord and mount the switch wherever I want. Switching the 240v feed would mean mounting the switch near the compressor, which really isn't in a convenient location.

A nice thing about timers is you can run them in parallel, one in the shop, another in the garage.

 

[aczlan]

I put it on the pressure switch so it's only seeing the amperage of the magnetic switch. Lets me use a smaller diameter extension cord and mount the switch wherever I want. Switching the 240v feed would mean mounting the switch near the compressor, which really isn't in a convenient location.

Good point, mine will be on the side of the breaker panel (which is in a convenient location), so it will interrupt the feed to the compressor.
My compressor is buried in the back of a dead corner between my pallet racking sections.

If I ever have to get it out, I'm going to have to take down that section of pallet racking.

Aaron Z

 

[clodhopper]

I put it on the pressure switch so it's only seeing the amperage of the magnetic switch. Lets me use a smaller diameter extension cord and mount the switch wherever I want. Switching the 240v feed would mean mounting the switch near the compressor, which really isn't in a convenient location.

This is how mine is set up. I still have a regular switch that I need to swap over to the timer switch that has been sitting next to it for months.... So I occasionally have to make a trek back out to the barn late in the evening to hit the switch when I forget.

I put my compressor in a small shed next to the barn to reduce noise. If I keep the radio low, I can hear it kick on while I am working, but otherwise it is so quiet that I dont even think about it. Probably why I sometimes forget to shut it off.

 

[K5_489]

I did the battery/electric vs air debate in my head for a lot of years. I'm just a regular guy doing stupid shit in my garage, praying that I don't see my junk showing up on the ghetto fab threads one day, lol

Dad had a massive ancient compressor in our garag, and we used that thing enough in my time to have to rebuild the pump a few times. When I moved out, I couldn't afford a "real" compressor, so made do with some cheaper plug in electrics and battery tools.

Eventually amassed a decent collection of Dewalt 18V tools, Dremels, etc over the years, and began thinking "what do I really need air for now other than inflating tires? Everything is covered by electrics and batteries!" I even bought a Foredom tool for the bigger jobs that a Dremel won't handle (killed a few Dremels porting heads,lol)

I spent the better part of 20 years after moving out of the parents place living in either apartments or small suburbia houses, and never really having the room for the kind of car projects I always wanted to do anyways, so I stuck with what I had.

Then 6 years ago I bought my current house on some land out in the sticks where I finally could start doing those projects. I kept talking about wanting to put in a huge Quincy, but still couldn't afford it, and didn't want to buy a cheap compressor that I would have to buy again every 3 years...

Then it occured to me - I have hundreds of dollars in 18V batteries sitting here..for what I've spent on batteries alone I could have bought a pretty nice air setup, lol. I always wanted a media blasting set up, and a plasma would be nice, though the oxy/acetylene works well enough. Then one day I saw a Husky 80gallon at Home Depot on deep clearance. Brought it home for $250.

Now I wouldn't be without air. As mentioned earlier - the air tools are MUCH lighter and more powerful. The metal bodies are far easier to clean after a day of stripping down a greasy truck. I'm not buying new batteries every few years. I'm pulling air hoses FAR more often than I'm pulling extension cords.
The battery stuff is still great for portability, and quickie jobs, but for all day in the garage work? Air, hands down, no question. Even sold off/gave away much of my electric tools since.

 

[billybob_81067]

Punching that number into eBay did not yield expected results.

How much more electrical would it take to make it drain automatically? Wouldn't it just be another timer to drain for X-seconds after shutdown use the motor starter to reset that one on startup?

https://www.amazon.com/GAEYAELE-Electronic-DC12-240V-Certificate-DC12V-240V/dp/B07CG73PCX/ref=sr_1_5?th=1

Get the GRT-A2,A230. There are probably others there that will work fine, but that is the one I got and I know it will work... It actually is a dual throw switch so it has another set of 3 outputs that I didn't even use that could be used to control something else if you wanted.

As for making it drain automatically, are you talking about the water trap/filter or the compressor tank? The filter does drain automatically as is. It has a float inside, and also when the unloader valve releases pressure on the line from the compressor head to the tank check valve it also drains on it's own...

If you're talking about the compressor tank, I added a 110v plug in from the magnetic starter box that I will plug an electronic automatic drain valve into once I get the compressor back up on a stand and have enough room underneath it for the drain valve. The are cheap on e-bay.

Automatic Electronic Timed Air Tank Water Moisture Drain Valve Compressor USA | eBay

Equipped with a ball valve filter, split with drain valve, an L-shaped structure. The factory has been connected to the cable drain valve, fade for the fire line L, blue for the zero line N, yellow and green color for the safe ground GND.

www.ebay.com

Or if you wanted it done mechanically they also sell those compressor drain kits that you tie into your unloader valve line with that will blast air for a bit after any interrupted air signal. I have not used or been around this style at all, I just know that they exist. You would have more plumbing to do if you went this route.

Brand New Automatic Air Compressor Drain Kit #13211 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Brand New Automatic Air Compressor Drain Kit #13211 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[billybob_81067]

I went with a somewhat (a lot) cheaper route. I just put one of these mechanical timer switches in line with my pressure switch. Turn the knob on when I'm in the shop and it automatically shuts off when I inevitably forget to shut it of when I leave.

I also have the stuff where I could use an electronic switch tied to my home automation setup so I could control it remotely or by voice if I ever feel the need.

I also plan to add a solenoid valve close to the compressor that feeds of the same switch. Mostly because it's inevitable that the loop will have come leaks and bleed down whenever the system is off. Assuming the tank and everything before the valve is leak free, I won't have to wait to air up the tank every day when I turn the switch on.

Actually that electric timer relay I bought was right in line pricewise with that intermatic timer switch from what I've seen. That would also work good for a lot of people and would be probably be a lot easier for people to understand how to wire it up. The compressor I had was without the magnetic starter, and would have needed one added anyways for that setup as well...

It should work great to control the solenoid air valve. I already ordered up a bunch of outdoor switch boxes and indicator lights and some armored 14/2 cable to use for my air valve, but if I have issues with myself or other forgetting to shut the system off when we leave I will probably upgrade to the timer switches. As arse sideways said you can have as many switches as you want in any convenient locations as long as you run them parallel. I will probably do 3 or 4 switch locations where I commonly need air on the exterior of the shop. One will be right by the main entry door, so that one will see 99% of the use.

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

Fuck electric drains. Here is automatic completely analog tank drain. I have this guy on my tank does a fantastic job. Doesn’t leak air just pisses the water out the bottom whenever it needs to.

mag-11 | JORC Industrial LLC

www.jorc.com

 

[MigGunslinger]

Fuck electric drains. Here is automatic completely analog tank drain. I have this guy on my tank does a fantastic job. Doesn’t leak air just pisses the water out the bottom whenever it needs to.

mag-11 | JORC Industrial LLC

www.jorc.com

That thing is cool,

I have one of these after the ghetto moonshine condenser coil and before the tank on my compressor:

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[Lbhsbz]

Finally getting into the position to afford a 60-80 gallon compressor to plumb up the shop But am now questioning if it is really the best use of the $$$. Already have a decent cordless setup for impacts and the like but that doesn’t cover things like an air hammer or die grinder but those are more nice to haves then need to haves. Dream of a blast cabinet to go with the compressor but that would be a bit more down the line again. I fear it will mostly end up filling tires and dusting things off which could be done with something significantly smaller and cheaper but don’t want to end up kicking myself for not getting what I really wanted either and being unable to run a cabinet or paint gun when called upon.

And before anyone says it there are no 3-400 dollar commercial units on Craigslist

Let me know when they make an 18V blast cabinet

 

[arse_sidewards]

What's the difference between a GRT8-A1 and GRT8-A2 relay other than $10?

220V AC On Delay Relay GRT8-A1 0.1s LED Display Time Relay - 10 Days Industrial | eBay

Output relay indication: red LED. Relay working status is indicated by LED indicators. Power consumption:AC. 6VA/1.3W. Power indicator: Green LED. Function: Delay ON. Stable performance, long service life.

www.ebay.com

 

[arse_sidewards]

Never-mind, found another listing with the info I need. Turns out I do need a B

 

[billybob_81067]

Never-mind, found another listing with the info I need. Turns out I do need a B

I've slept since then so I can't tell you 100%, but I believe the A1 that you are asking about only has one set of contacts that it will run and the A2 has two sets. Each one of them has a normally closed contact and a normally open contact. From the way I wired mine I only used one set of contacts on it and the other ones were not used, so I probably could have gotten away with getting the A1.

As for the A and B models being delay on or off, you can use the A models as a delay off by using the normally closed contact and once the time limit is reached and it "switches on" that contact then shuts off...

Mine have been working flawlessly so far. Compressor has been running like normal. Still have peace of mind that if I forget to shut the valve and have a line blow out it will shut down the compressor after 45 minutes.