78 F150 4x4 SWB Budget build?

[Levigarrett76]

Finally back moving on this after 2 year delay moving/house/shop/life

I need it in a few weeks, and despite comp cams being my go-to in past 460 builds im not looking to wipe a cam i waited 2-3 months on...

Budget motor as follows:

15cc dish 1.77" CH later style efi piston 99 block 460 with c9 heads, home garage bowl blending and budget exhaust porting.

going in 78 f150, c6 & 3.50 gears stock convertor, has 33's now, not sure on new tire size but likely 33-36 range.

Will be truck manifolds at first and later to mad dog fender exit 1-7/8 headers

performer intake, 1" spacer and 800 DP holley with all in timing by 2500 rpm 34*

Will be used beating around in the woods, and occasional trip to town and burnouts. I would likely leave the stock cam but i think given the compression it will do some good to bleed some off with a mild cam running 90 octane non E gas...

this cam? - Ford Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft

215/221 @ .050", .519'/.514", 112* LSA, 277/283 adv.


or this? - Ford Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft



215/221 @ .050", .527"/.535", 112* LSA, 274/281 adv.

or this? - https://www.autozone.com/internal-engine/camshaft/p/melling-camshaft-24206/179938_0_0

214/224 @ .050", .511"/.544", 112* LSA, 292/302 adv.


I'm not sure what which uses .06 or whatever for adv. numbers vs not etc...

I really like the Howards cams 215/225 But cant get a good ETA on it.

 

[rattle_snake]

I would choose the Melling cam due to the extra exhaust split/duration. The 460 is exhaust restricted even with heads ported. Stock 460 cam has +12 on exhaust. The ford ones are only +6 to the +10 of the Melling. Not sure what the max lift of your heads are. I run a custom 213/227.

The -15cc 1.77 pistons calculate to 0.027 in the hole, which yields 9.7:1 w/ 75 cc chambers. Good fit for any of cam you listed.

0.027 down and 0.045 gasket is quench of 0.072, which isn't great, but should run OK on 87 octane. Zero decking to fix quench would raise CR too much and need different pistons or heads.

You will need custom length push rods. The 460 geometry is poor already, buy decent push rods.

The manifolds will restrict 25-30+ hp. Why fender exit headers? Seems like a pain in the ass.

 

[Provience]

Any interest in calling up comp [or whoever you like] and getting a cutsom grind?

 

[Levigarrett76]

I agree with you on cam-i was leaning towards the melling but heard its an old tech grind and wondered what might be lacking in the lobe profiles then i think im overthinking it for a budget build. I had read a hot rod article about newer grinds with less lift on exhaust side with more duration lending itself to better exhaust scavenging due to pulses or something compared to more traditional grinds
Where did you get your cam? Scotty j?

I have read for yrs about the insufficent exhaust due to lincoln engine compartment design restraints but even still the 460 with stock heads seems to make decent power with say a comp 218/224 like here



(and i dont think these were original 10.5:1 pistons that richard claims, i bet this closer to 9.25:1 cause these look like the 73-up carb pistons)

Thabk you for the tips on compression/quench without spending $ to try and make perfect i felt like this woukd be a decent combo. Engine has only about 300 hrs on it and is in great shape.

Ive got a push rod length checker i plan to employ, what brand pushrods did you use?

Definitely wish manfolds werent such a choke point, they are so trouble free and ive got an almost brand new set of truck style

Main reason for fenderwell headers is mad dog makes a really nice header for $100 less than l&l and i can get a 1-7/8 instead of 1-3/4. They are local and fenderwell makes it really easy to run exhaust at home. Probably go with turned out in front of tires

Ive run both l&l chassis exit and fenderwell exits in the past and other than tires rubbing the fender exits (39 boggers on 12” wide wheels) both were good and the thick flanges never gave me a leak. I stayed on top of keeping bolts tight

What headers were you running again?

Know anyone who runs the mid length l&l or the hookers?

 

[Levigarrett76]

Any interest in calling up comp [or whoever you like] and getting a cutsom grind?

Honestly no, i mostly don't really feel up to waiting and playing supply chain / back log games

And the last 460 i built i did that with lunati gave then all the specs and was dissappointed with the results. It wound up being under cammed (12.2:1 472 with edelbrock rpm heads in 2007) for my use

 

[arse_sidewards]

Any interest in calling up comp [or whoever you like] and getting a cutsom grind?

Or just call them and get a part number for an off the shelf cam they already make that's good enough.

 

[rattle_snake]

Yes I got my custom cam from Scotty J. I actually bought everything from him as a package. Pushrods are Smith brothers I believe. I am running L&L mid length and they fit well.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Thanks

Now i'm contemplating the block huggers form l&l

 

[rattle_snake]

Don't forget to open up the ring gap for Nitrous/boost.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Hahahah

Well shit

Looks like someone port matched the c9 heads to a cj intake, or am i wrong and this was just s gasket match? I guess i need to drag the heavy ass cj intake up on the bench and see

I know it was common practice to run the cast iron scj intake on regular sized ports , but what about the opposite? I would think this would promote turbulence

Ive got the cast iron scj intake off the propane 460 i could use, but id rather have the additional low speed torque. Or just go bigger cam? Or port match the performer?

Or do i run these 95cc mystery heads instead?

What say irate?

 

[Provience]

Mystery heads

Plus whatever camshaft su.mit has in stock

 

[Levigarrett76]

Ahh summit, all they got in stock is hydraulic rollers and the melling cams

Ill dig up and lay my stock intake gaskets on it and i guess that will tell me

After some googling it looks like maybe they was just gasket matched

 

[bad zuki]

Whichever one plays Hot for Teacher at idle.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Confirmed Its just a standard size gasket match.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Some bowl work blending and short turn work

 

[Aisin]

Got an idea of your compression ratio?

 

[Levigarrett76]

Guessing about 9.7 like rattle said based on 75cc c9’s and late efi pistons

 

[Levigarrett76]

Its just a gasket match

I gonna pick up some 1230 to delete the egr crossover

 

[Levigarrett76]

I’ve got to get me some sanding rolls

 

[Will12785]

I run Sanderson headers on my 250. I replaced a set of L&L fender exit headers with them. I still have the L&Ls if your interested.

 

[Levigarrett76]

I run Sanderson headers on my 250. I replaced a set of L&L fender exit headers with them. I still have the L&Ls if your interested.

Definitely interested will send you a PM

 

[Levigarrett76]

I would choose the Melling cam due to the extra exhaust split/duration. The 460 is exhaust restricted even with heads ported. Stock 460 cam has +12 on exhaust. The ford ones are only +6 to the +10 of the Melling. Not sure what the max lift of your heads are. I run a custom 213/227.

The -15cc 1.77 pistons calculate to 0.027 in the hole, which yields 9.7:1 w/ 75 cc chambers. Good fit for any of cam you listed.

0.027 down and 0.045 gasket is quench of 0.072, which isn't great, but should run OK on 87 octane. Zero decking to fix quench would raise CR too much and need different pistons or heads.

You will need custom length push rods. The 460 geometry is poor already, buy decent push rods.

The manifolds will restrict 25-30+ hp. Why fender exit headers? Seems like a pain in the ass.

Howards does not have an eta, they are waiting on raw matierials. They do have this grind available.

Hydraulic Flat Tappet Street Force 3 Camshaft; 1968 - 1995 Ford 429-460 1500 to 5400 Howards Cams 240041-12 | Howards Cams

www.howardscams.com

I dont really want to have a lumpy idle/poor vacuum while trying to idle around in the woods.

I found some dyno numbers where a guy had run the melling 214/224 grind (sounds like its a really old grind, ford marine or something) against the 218/224 comp xtreme grind and the comp killed the melling on low end and the melling was very peaky

What you think about these cams? they have about 10* more adv. duration than the comparable fast/noisy comp cams grinds, but less than the huge melling adv. duration (both at .06)

Ford Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft

Ford - 370, 429 & 460Performance level 3 - Power Beast - Low to mid-range torque for daily drivability. Economical price.INT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 210°/226° RR: 1.73/1.73 Gross Lift: .510”/.536” LSA: 112° RPM: 1200 to 3800 Redline: 5200

crower.com

210/226 .510/.536 112* LSA (268/286 adv.)

Ford Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft

Ford - 370, 429 & 460Performance level 3 - Ultra Beast - Delivers impressive midrange and top end power. Economical price.INT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 224°/234° RR: 1.73/1.73 Gross Lift: .538”/.562” LSA: 112° RPM: 2000 to 4800 Redline: 6200

crower.com

224/234 .538/.562 112* LSA (303/308 adv.)

Im leaning towards the 210/226

 

[Levigarrett76]

Well My guess is Howards and Crower all use the same core supplier, because everyone seems to be waiting on cores with no eta.

Waiting to hear back from RM competition

 

[rattle_snake]

I would choose the 210/226 .510/.536 112* LSA out of this group. The Howard with 225 I,108 CL is likely not truck/crawler friendly.

 

[Provience]

I plan on running a crower if I ever get into my 400.

No real reason though

 

[Levigarrett76]

I guess im just fucked

 

[Levigarrett76]

Sanding rolls showed up
They suck

 

[Levigarrett76]

Minor work on the giant intake ports

 

[Levigarrett76]

Broke out the ol DD last night

Melling/elgin etc generic grind 214/224

Comp 218/226 xtreme 4x4..only even slightly considered this because its basically the only thing mild in stock right now, I ram this in a 79 Supercab back in 2001 and wiped a lobe....

Scotty 213/227

Interesting how his makes a little more everywhere

 

[Provience]

They are all real similar, but that last one seems to be the slight edge leader of the group