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grumpy356

bordering on illiterate
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https://www.uslawshield.com/firearm...ce=newsletter_nl&utm_campaign=october_22_2020



The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (“ATF”) has officially unveiled a new edict every gun store and prospective gun buyers should know. The ATF Form 4473 was rebooted for 2020, requiring Federal Firearms Licensed gun dealers (“FFLs”) to use this new version for gun sales and transfers beginning November 1, 2020.

What are the major changes made to the Form 4473 and how could they affect you? Let’s touch on some of the most important changes you need to know.

What is ATF Form 4473?
Before we begin, let’s review Form 4473, also known as the Firearms Transaction Record. This form is a federally mandated part of transfers when purchasing a firearm, trading a firearm, returning a consigned firearm, redeeming a pawned firearm, loaning or renting a firearm for use off of an FFL’s licensed premises, and any other non-exempt transfer of a firearm through a licensed dealer. It requires the buyer to provide their name, address, birth date, state of residence, and other information.

It also contains blanks to be filled in, including the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (“NICS”) transaction number, the make, model, and serial number of the firearm, and a series of questions. These questions help determine a prospective gun buyer’s eligibility to purchase a firearm under federal law.

Once fully completed by the applicant, they must then sign the document and attest the information is truthful and accurate under penalty of federal law; if the transferee lies or provides inaccurate information on their Form 4473, they could be prosecuted for a crime.

The FFL must then sign the form and retain it for at least 20 years, allowing the ATF to inspect and receive a copy of the form during audits and in the course of a criminal investigation. These Form 4473s are also subject to surrender to the ATF in the event the FFL discontinues doing business.

The NICS background check system, along with the answers on the Form 4473, determine a buyer’s eligibility to legally purchase and possess a firearm. Keep in mind, no NICS background check may be required if the transferee is legally exempt for reasons like possessing a state-issued firearms license or concealed carry permit, and the transferor agrees to accept such a license or permit as a substitute for the background check.

2020 Changes to Form 4473
Now, let’s look at what exactly has changed on the 2020 version of the Form 4473. The first substantive change is found in the warning language at the top of Page 1. In addition to the standard warning of federal law violations and their penalties, the warning now contains language specifically stating that “[a]ny person who exports a firearm without a proper authorization from either the Department of Commerce or the Department of State, as applicable, is subject to a fine of not more than $1,000,000 and up to 20 years imprisonment.”

The second and most noticeable change is in Section A. The ATF has essentially moved the pertinent gun information, including the manufacturer and importer, model, serial number, type, caliber or gauge, number of firearms to be transferred, and two checkboxes to be marked in the event the transaction is a pawn redemption or to facilitate a private party transfer.

This firearm information was previously located on Page 3 in Section D of the Form 4473. Now, the ATF will have immediate firearms information located up front and center on Page 1, along with the transferee or buyer’s name, address, and other identifying information. This revision is seen as controversial because it raises concerns that the firearm identification information and the transferee’s personal information are now consolidated on the first page, which could ultimately be used to facilitate the creation of a state or national firearms registry. The creation of such a registry is currently prohibited by federal law under 18 U.S.C. § 926.

Section B of the new Form contains personal information, with options to select Non-Binary as a Sex; the addition of Parish/Borough as options to go along with County; a more robust UPIN / Appeals Management ID box; and two new immigration-status based questions.

Also noteworthy in Section B are the subparts of question 21, specifically, b., c., h., and i., which now include portions asking if the applicant has had any dealings with a military court which may render them ineligible to purchase, possess, own, or transport a firearm. These include matters related to felonies in state, federal, or military court, along with misdemeanor domestic violence crimes and orders of protection.

Overall, the main significant changes revolve around relocating the firearm and buyer’s information to the front of the form, in addition to information as it relates to members of our armed forces. On the one hand, it will be much easier for the transferor to solve potential residency questions with the new sections related to their change of station and military IDs. On the other hand, there are more expansive questions related to potential military-based court findings and punishments that could make an applicant ineligible to purchase the firearm.

For any additional questions about the new Form 4473, call U.S. LawShield and ask to speak to your Independent Program Attorney.




I don't see the big deal. What am I missing?

I would have liked them to re-visit the Cannabis question, but it seems like they left that alone.

As long as they didn't make the form digital, I am pretty happy. When they do make the form digital, it then becomes a national gun registry.
 
The part that bugs me, other than the form existing at all is the question of race. None of your fucking business would be my first choice.
 
Yeah i don't see it either? 3rd page vs 1st page? the information is still there either way, what does a page separation of placement effect it?
 
They've had the non binary on there all year. As tempting as it is on a prank level, I'm convinced it's a trap.
 
I'm curious about this part:

he NICS background check system, along with the answers on the Form 4473, determine a buyer’s eligibility to legally purchase and possess a firearm. Keep in mind, no NICS background check may be required if the transferee is legally exempt for reasons like possessing a state-issued firearms license or concealed carry permit, and the transferor agrees to accept such a license or permit as a substitute for the background check.

So with a concealed carry permit...no background check is needed?
 
I'm curious about this part:

he NICS background check system, along with the answers on the Form 4473, determine a buyer’s eligibility to legally purchase and possess a firearm. Keep in mind, no NICS background check may be required if the transferee is legally exempt for reasons like possessing a state-issued firearms license or concealed carry permit, and the transferor agrees to accept such a license or permit as a substitute for the background check.

So with a concealed carry permit...no background check is needed?

That's dependant on the state. In Texas, that's correct. I show my CHL, and the NICS is waived
 
I'd like to know since when? Not in virginia at least.

Since when is the new form out?

Well the second sentence says "this new version for gun sales and transfers beginning November 1, 2020."
 
That's dependant on the state. In Texas, that's correct. I show my CHL, and the NICS is waived

Just talked to a local FFL. The state right now charges $10 for the background check. It will be at the discretion of the transferor to accept the ccw in lue of the background check but the state will probably work something in to keep their $10...lol
 
Just talked to a local FFL. The state right now charges $10 for the background check. It will be at the discretion of the transferor to accept the ccw in lue of the background check but the state will probably work something in to keep their $10...lol

If you're in a state that charges for background checks, I seriously doubt the state will allow the FFL to accept a CCW instead of a tax that "isn't a tax". Texas allows it but to my knowledge doesn't charge for background checks; Colorado charges for background checks and the effort some time back to change the law to skip the background check if the buyer had a CCW, failed.
 
Just talked to a local FFL. The state right now charges $10 for the background check. It will be at the discretion of the transferor to accept the ccw in lue of the background check but the state will probably work something in to keep their $10...lol
How do you tax a right?

I get you are already paying tax on the object (which should be in a tax exempt category) but adding another tax or fee to that is unreasonable/
 
The FFL must then sign the form and retain it for at least 20 years, allowing the ATF to inspect and receive a copy of the form during audits and in the course of a criminal investigation. These Form 4473s are also subject to surrender to the ATF in the event the FFL discontinues doing business.

holy fuck! how does that comply with FOPA?
 
I'd like to know since when? Not in virginia at least.

It used to get you out of the one handgun a month law if you had a CCW in VA. The current Carpetbagger Guvnor, bought and paid fort with Bloomberg's $$$, signed into law that you can't transfer a fucking thing without prior state knowledge and approval as of 1 Jun 2020.
 
How do you tax a right?

I get you are already paying tax on the object (which should be in a tax exempt category) but adding another tax or fee to that is unreasonable/

Well....Tn charges $10 for a background check. But I agree with you 100%. You can however purchase up to 5 firearms on one check.

The same should apply to the damn $200 tax stamp on suppressors...:mad3:
 
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I was referring to thumpings post about having a chp and not having to get a nics check
 
I don't see the big deal. What am I missing?

I would have liked them to re-visit the Cannabis question, but it seems like they left that alone.

As long as they didn't make the form digital, I am pretty happy. When they do make the form digital, it then becomes a national gun registry.

While I do see your point, the last 6 or 7 guns I have purchased have been on a digital (touchscreen) form.

It makes it way easier and way faster to get out of the store with the firearm.
 
How do you tax a right?

I get you are already paying tax on the object (which should be in a tax exempt category) but adding another tax or fee to that is unreasonable/

Tax a right? Well, just be like CA and ignore the fact that the Constitution exists.
 
The part that bugs me, other than the form existing at all is the question of race. None of your fucking business would be my first choice.

When I bought my first 2 (store-bought) pistols, "race" was a write-in with no guidelines, so I wrote "human" :grinpimp: and the gun store owner just :rolleyes:

Can't remember if they changed the form or got dickish about the answers, but I recall arguing my ass off when "human" was no longer OK. :laughing:
 
My understanding was the BATFE wanted all of the pertinent information on the first page. They want agents to be able to quickly snap a cell phone pic of every form during a inspection. Those pics can then be sent to DC and stored. Makes sense, if a few pics of every form existed, the bureaucrats would have the registry all screwed up.
 
Just talked to a local FFL. The state right now charges $10 for the background check. It will be at the discretion of the transferor to accept the ccw in lue of the background check but the state will probably work something in to keep their $10...lol

You can use the ccw in The Great State of Ohio. You pay for the background check when you apply for the permit. It is understood that your ccw will be revoked if no longer able to pass said

background check.

I believe it has to be issued after a certain date though.
 
When I bought my first 2 (store-bought) pistols, "race" was a write-in with no guidelines, so I wrote "human" :grinpimp: and the gun store owner just :rolleyes:

Can't remember if they changed the form or got dickish about the answers, but I recall arguing my ass off when "human" was no longer OK. :laughing:

I too hate this question. I am refinancing right now to get a lower interest rate. The lady taking my info over the phone asked me if I was black or hispanic, no other options provided so I now identify as black. What the fuck does race have to do with my credit mothertruckers.
 
We need Supreme Court Justices who know how to interpret "shall not be infringed".

That's likely coming. Thomas has been somewhat vocal about why he's been a deciding factor in the SCOTUS turning down 2A cases in the last few years, he doesn't trust Roberts on solidifying a majority. With Barret's confirmation it's highly likely that the Court takes up more 2A cases.
 
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