3/4 or 1 ton "ecoboost"

[YotaAtieToo]

The more I tow with the wife's 2.7 ecoboost,the more impressed I am. We just did a 4 hour each way trip with a 22' steel deck over tilt trailer to get a 3/4t dodge. I'm guessing I had to have 10k behind it, and it was tall and in the wind. With the truck, I set cruise at 65. It was typically in 5th at ~2100 rpm. Slight uphill 4th at ~2800 rpm. A few time it's hit 3rd at 3500 rpm.

But, I'd like to have a cabover and pull that trailer with a Sami and another rig on it. No way I'd do that with the 150, airbags, lower gears, whatever it's just a little too much, and I'm not buying a camper for the little 5.5' grocery box.

I'd like to try a 7.3 gas, but they're new and desirable enough that they are expensive. I had a 6.2 truck for a company vehicle and I liked it, but towing heavy it mountains wasn't great. I actually think the ecoboost was better.

I keep saying Ford needs to do a 5.0tt superduty, which got me thinking. What about picking up a 6.2 SD and adding a tt kit? They're aren't cheap, but when you look at new trucks, it doesn't look too bad. Not talking making 800 hp, but ~10 psi would be a game changer on hills.


Cliffs, ecoboost are badass, why not boost a gas 3/4t?

 

[JR4X]

I’ve considered it for sure. The stupid thing is 6.2 gasser CC/SB’s still sell in the mid $40’s to mid $50’s. WTF. That’s turbo diesel dollars

2017 Ford 4x4 Crew Cab F250 XLT - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle...

2017 Ford 4X4 Crew Cab F250 XLT. 6 Speed Auto Trans G. 6.2 L V-8 Engine. FX 4 OFF Road Package. Trailer Sway Control with Trailer Brake Controller. Camper Package. Stray on Bed Liner and B&W...

westslope.craigslist.org

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I’ve considered it for sure. The stupid thing is 6.2 gasser CC/SB’s still sell in the mid $40’s to mid $50’s. WTF. That’s turbo diesel dollars

2017 Ford 4x4 Crew Cab F250 XLT - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle...

2017 Ford 4X4 Crew Cab F250 XLT. 6 Speed Auto Trans G. 6.2 L V-8 Engine. FX 4 OFF Road Package. Trailer Sway Control with Trailer Brake Controller. Camper Package. Stray on Bed Liner and B&W...

westslope.craigslist.org

Have you priced the equivalent diesel? Because it's more

The one thing that won't improve is miliage. My 6.2 could sometimes get 15 on the highway.

Annolder one would definitely be the way to go, but I really like the aluminum duty over the previous body style.

Also, it's probably pointless to buy a super low mile unit like that one, because I ford wouldn't warrante a door handle if they knew you had 2 turbos stuck under there.



A supercharger is also interesting, but I don't see it being the same. Plus you're getting drag all the time. Maybe a procharger, would definitely be way easier. I'm pretty clueless on superchargers.

The kit i saw for a raptor said it would do like 650 hp at 7 psi

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Brand new xlt with a few options for $55k

Autotrader - page unavailable

Basic early xlt for $26k (that's actually a pretty decent truck for the money)

Autotrader - page unavailable

Highish mile 2019 for $32k

Autotrader - page unavailable



I dunno, it's a lot of money for kind of an experiment. But could be killer. Might be doable with a gm or ram too if you're into that sort of thing.

 

[JR4X]

Got a link to the twin turbo kit?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Got a link to the twin turbo kit?

This is the only one I found with 5 Mins of searching. Only $9k starting

HELLION 2011-2014 SVT FORD RAPTOR / F-150 6.2L TWIN TURBO SYSTEM

They do newer 5.0 F150 kits as well. I'd think that they might be willing to work with someone who wanted to do a 6.2 SD.

 

[ZSK]

My wife's daily is a '19 Expedition with the 3.5 EB and 10 speed auto. Even with 3.31 gears it's a good towing combo so far. The 10 speed takes a lot to get used to running around empty but towing it's nice having the right ratio available. My F150 is showing some mileage I've been looking at swapping the 5.4/4R75E to a 3.5EB and 6 or 10 speed, pricing doesn't seem terrible for a drive train on a pallet and with 4.10 gears in the F150 towing would be a breeze with an extra 75 horse and 100+ ftlbs.

V6 Ecoboost Turnkey Swap Kit - MARS Auto Parts & Engine Swaps LS Swap Parts | Kits | Turnkey Pallets

Current Lead Times: 6 months We are the only supplier of completely stand-alone swap ready turnkey Ecoboost drivetrains. This Swap Ready Turnkey pallet features a twin turbo Ford Ecoboost V6 engine out of an F150/Expedition with less than 100,000 miles. The VIN from your donor vehicle will be...

lsswap.parts

 

[06h3]

Everything you had in the first post is literally identical to what I tell my buddies. The success the Ecoboost has had is unreal in my opinion. The 3.5 also makes crazy torque at a low rpm which is even cooler.

I’m with you on 3/4 ton-1 ton gassers having boost and towing like a beast.

 

[CarterKraft]

The more I tow with the wife's 2.7 ecoboost,the more impressed I am. We just did a 4 hour each way trip with a 22' steel deck over tilt trailer to get a 3/4t dodge. I'm guessing I had to have 10k behind it, and it was tall and in the wind. With the truck, I set cruise at 65. It was typically in 5th at ~2100 rpm. Slight uphill 4th at ~2800 rpm. A few time it's hit 3rd at 3500 rpm.

But, I'd like to have a cabover and pull that trailer with a Sami and another rig on it. No way I'd do that with the 150, airbags, lower gears, whatever it's just a little too much, and I'm not buying a camper for the little 5.5' grocery box.

I'd like to try a 7.3 gas, but they're new and desirable enough that they are expensive. I had a 6.2 truck for a company vehicle and I liked it, but towing heavy it mountains wasn't great. I actually think the ecoboost was better.

I keep saying Ford needs to do a 5.0tt superduty, which got me thinking. What about picking up a 6.2 SD and adding a tt kit? They're aren't cheap, but when you look at new trucks, it doesn't look too bad. Not talking making 800 hp, but ~10 psi would be a game changer on hills.


Cliffs, ecoboost are badass, why not boost a gas 3/4t?

The real reason is economics of upselling the $10+K diesel package and all the continued service/parts revenue from that.

I used to have a customer that only bought 6.2's and put belt drive chargers on them.
He said he had zero trouble with them and could pull stock and fertilizer trailers just as well as the 6.7's his fleet had.

Just for fun I looked up the low boost Procharger kit for the 7.3. $7,978.95
Dropping $8500 on my new truck and potentially fucking my warranty to achieve the same performance as the diesel doesn't sound like something I will be trying.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The real reason is economics of upselling the $10+K diesel package and all the continued service/parts revenue from that.

I used to have a customer that only bought 6.2's and put belt drive chargers on them.
He said he had zero trouble with them and could pull stock and fertilizer trailers just as well as the 6.7's his fleet had.

Just for fun I looked up the low boost Procharger kit for the 7.3. $7,978.95
Dropping $8500 on my new truck and potentially fucking my warranty to achieve the same performance as the diesel doesn't sound like something I will be trying.

I don't think new would be the way to go, but something like the trucks I listed for less than $30k.

 

[CarterKraft]

Brand new xlt with a few options for $55k

Autotrader - page unavailable

Basic early xlt for $26k (that's actually a pretty decent truck for the money)

Autotrader - page unavailable

Highish mile 2019 for $32k

Autotrader - page unavailable



I dunno, it's a lot of money for kind of an experiment. But could be killer. Might be doable with a gm or ram too if you're into that sort of thing.

gotcha

I like the idea of gas engine affordability, low part count etc. with great power.
Right now seems like a bad time to try this experiment.
The gas trucks are (asking)bringing what the diesels are for low mile higher trim packages.

 

[CarterKraft]

I don't think new would be the way to go, but something like the trucks I listed for less than $30k.

I would think a 10 speed would be welcome in this scenario too.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

gotcha

I like the idea of gas engine affordability, low part count etc. with great power.
Right now seems like a bad time to try this experiment.
The gas trucks are (asking)bringing what the diesels are for low mile higher trim packages.

Ya, and the ~$10k for a boost kit kinda bridges he gap.

I also kinda defeats the purpose of going gas for simplicity since that goes out the window with turbos and all the piping, extra strain on the engine, ect.

Meanwhile, if you picked up used 6.7, there are plenty of fixes for the issues that some have.

I would think a 10 speed would be welcome in this scenario too.

Well yes. The 6 speed is still pretty damn good though.

I'm not sure if they put the 10 spd behind the 6.2 though?

 

[Projectjunkie]

Does the ecoboost require premium?



I'm a fan of the 6.2, we had some early ones in drw f350s that ran 200k plus, serious abuse, like floored all the time, or idling since 2015. One was started twice without oil

Last i knew they were at 200k and running strong

 

[JR4X]

Does the ecoboost require premium?



I'm a fan of the 6.2, we had some early ones in drw f350s that ran 200k plus, serious abuse, like floored all the time, or idling since 2015. One was started twice without oil

Last i knew they were at 200k and running strong

Did they put 4.30’s in them since they were dually’s? I’m posting this from the cab of a 20 F250 with the 6.2 and I am not a fan. It’s a work truck so I can’t touch it. I think 4.30 gears and turning dow the torque management bull shit would help me not hate it.

 

[Projectjunkie]

Did they put 4.30’s in them since they were dually’s? I’m posting this from the cab of a 20 F250 with the 6.2 and I am not a fan. It’s a work truck so I can’t touch it. I think 4.30 gears and turning dow the torque management bull shit would help me not hate it.

I don't know, probably 430s

I always felt it was torque management holding them back, not gearing or power

 

[JR4X]

I don't know, probably 430s

I always felt it was torque management holding them back, not gearing or power

It’s a HUGE problem. I’ve had a 2012 and 2014 6.2 6 speed trucks before this one. Each year newer gets worse with the nanny management. It’s unacceptable IMO.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Does the ecoboost require premium?



I'm a fan of the 6.2, we had some early ones in drw f350s that ran 200k plus, serious abuse, like floored all the time, or idling since 2015. One was started twice without oil

Last i knew they were at 200k and running strong

No, computer just compensates for whatever fuel you put in.

I liked my 6.2 truck a lot over all. It was loaded with shit and I'd tow 12-16k with it. It did it, but not something I'd want to do often. I did Hate the granny 1st in the trans in the mountains. Sometimes you have to slow way down for a corner and 2nd wasn't going to cut it coming out, so then it was 5k in 1st I'm assuming it was 3xx gears. 4.30s probably would have been a game changer. The smaller 6 speed in the 150s doesn't have a granny 1st and although with a decent load it lags a little off the line, but once the load is moving its cake.

 

[Wilson]

It’s a HUGE problem. I’ve had a 2012 and 2014 6.2 6 speed trucks before this one. Each year newer gets worse with the nanny management. It’s unacceptable IMO.

Do you believe the torque management is more strict on the gas trucks? With my diesel, it doesn’t kick in until a tire spins.

 

[JR4X]

Do you believe the torque management is more strict on the gas trucks? With my diesel, it doesn’t kick in until a tire spins.

Yes I do. T-M has a lot more to it now than it used to also. It used to just limit horsepower in certain gears and work in conjunction with abs.

Now it affects every part of the vehicle’s actions. Just a few examples: The drive by wire throttle body is not doing what you think it’s doing most of the time. Say you’re decelerating and you have your foot completely off the gas pedal. I want that TB full closed to help force decel. But that’s not happening. The computer holds the TB at the position that matches the rpm making the engine not slow down nearly as fast as it should. So you have to use the brakes. The 2012 and 2014 I had went over 100K miles on the factory brake pads. This one needs them about every 25K because it doesn’t have engine braking like the earlier versions.

The DBW has a ramp speed, so say you’re trying to accelerate. You mash the gas pedal to the floor, the TB only opens up as rpm increases. From idle to 3500 rpm TB ramp speed is pretty slow. Then ramp speed increases from 3500 up to redline. When you put it in 4 low it halves the DBW ramp speed. So if your trying to get unstuck you will never get the vehicle to rock back and forth. The computer has to many delay timers between shifting and DBW input/output.

On this one you are supposed to be able to turn off traction control and advance trac. But even when you’ve gone through the motions of turning it off, it will still modulate the abs module when you’re fighting mud or snow.

The transmission shifting has a delay timer programmed in it that delays the shifts differently at different rpms and also doubles the delay time between shifts when you put it 4 low.

 

[CarterKraft]

The 5.0 Helion kit makes 650/550 for $9k
That might be great in a F150 but for towing I bet the stock 7.3 does as well with bulletproof reliability over the stress of boost.
The minimal boost systems on a 6.2 might be awesome but it would need to be really DIY to shave $$$$ off the price.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The 5.0 Helion kit makes 650/550 for $9k
That might be great in a F150 but for towing I bet the stock 7.3 does as well with bulletproof reliability over the stress of boost.
The minimal boost systems on a 6.2 might be awesome but it would need to be really DIY to shave $$$$ off the price.

Like I said, going new, it doesn't make any sense. Especially with the 7.3 as an option.

Picking up an ~8 year old truck might make it worth a shot. But ya, $9k kit is a little much.

Maybe just a shot of nos to get over the passes

 

[CarterKraft]

Maybe just a shot of nos to get over the passes

It works!

 

[Wilson]

Yes I do. T-M has a lot more to it now than it used to also. It used to just limit horsepower in certain gears and work in conjunction with abs.

Now it affects every part of the vehicle’s actions. Just a few examples: The drive by wire throttle body is not doing what you think it’s doing most of the time. Say you’re decelerating and you have your foot completely off the gas pedal. I want that TB full closed to help force decel. But that’s not happening. The computer holds the TB at the position that matches the rpm making the engine not slow down nearly as fast as it should. So you have to use the brakes. The 2012 and 2014 I had went over 100K miles on the factory brake pads. This one needs them about every 25K because it doesn’t have engine braking like the earlier versions.

The DBW has a ramp speed, so say you’re trying to accelerate. You mash the gas pedal to the floor, the TB only opens up as rpm increases. From idle to 3500 rpm TB ramp speed is pretty slow. Then ramp speed increases from 3500 up to redline. When you put it in 4 low it halves the DBW ramp speed. So if your trying to get unstuck you will never get the vehicle to rock back and forth. The computer has to many delay timers between shifting and DBW input/output.

On this one you are supposed to be able to turn off traction control and advance trac. But even when you’ve gone through the motions of turning it off, it will still modulate the abs module when you’re fighting mud or snow.

The transmission shifting has a delay timer programmed in it that delays the shifts differently at different rpms and also doubles the delay time between shifts when you put it 4 low.

Holy hell, so reprogramming all of that out should be step one and absolutely mandatory if someone were to add boost.

 

[JR4X]

Holy hell, so reprogramming all of that out should be step one and absolutely mandatory if someone were to add boost.

Yes!!!

 

[Provience]

The 5.0 Helion kit makes 650/550 for $9k
That might be great in a F150 but for towing I bet the stock 7.3 does as well with bulletproof reliability over the stress of boost.
The minimal boost systems on a 6.2 might be awesome but it would need to be really DIY to shave $$$$ off the price.

This is what I keep running into.

Granted I'm starting with a 40 year old platform, but turbo gas for towing vs na power build for towing is still tougher to pencil out

 

[JR4X]

I failed a unit bearing on my 6.2 superduty yesterday. I’m driving my old “gas guzzling” 460 powered 1 ton that on paper has less horsepower and torque. Every time I get in this thing I’m always blown away at how much more pleasant of drive it is to take over the mountains than what replaced it. 70 mph is 2400 rpm and this thing will chug every mountain pass without thinking about kicking out of OD. Gets better fuel mileage than the newer gassers too, which is counterintuitive to what everyone thinks about old big CID gassers.

 

[CarterKraft]

This is what I keep running into.

Granted I'm starting with a 40 year old platform, but turbo gas for towing vs na power build for towing is still tougher to pencil out

I watched a video of FLT on a fivestar tuned 7.3 with procharger and they stated a $6K price which seemed odd to me.
Maybe the who ever posted the ProCharged 7.3 in the GunRacer thread could find out from their buddy what actual cost is?

 

[Provience]

I failed a unit bearing on my 6.2 superduty yesterday. I’m driving my old “gas guzzling” 460 powered 1 ton that on paper has less horsepower and torque. Every time I get in this thing I’m always blown away at how much more pleasant of drive it is to take over the mountains than what replaced it. 70 mph is 2400 rpm and this thing will chug every mountain pass without thinking about kicking out of OD. Gets better fuel mileage than the newer gassers too, which is counterintuitive to what everyone thinks about old big CID gassers.

I really want an overdrive, 6 speed vs 4 speed when doing a swap makes it seem easy to justify an extra grand or so for the 6 speed

 

[JR4X]

I really want an overdrive, 6 speed vs 4 speed when doing a swap makes it seem easy to justify an extra grand or so for the 6 speed

My 4 speed auto has one overdrive. The 5 speed and 6 speed automatics have two overdrives which would be nice. Nice that is your putting out enough horsepower to make use of them. The 6.2 truck I’ve got never uses 6th. It’s a useless gear as is. Running stuff through the gear calculator I think 4.56 axle gears would be perfect for stock tires.