Hooligan
Xtreme wheeler of the web
Probably because we still think $34 is new car territory, have never paid that much for any car before…let alone one that is 5 years old.
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Last Call Guest on these Group Buy Deal Items from Baja Designs
Shopping JK/JL'S for dummies
- Thread starter YotaAtieToo
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YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
- Thread starter
- #182
It's the double edged sword of stuff that holds its value.
At least it's not like tacomas where they think a 20 year old mid size truck that gets 14 mpg and has 200k miles is worth $17k
At least it's not like tacomas where they think a 20 year old mid size truck that gets 14 mpg and has 200k miles is worth $17k
wrath
Red Skull
Cars are expensive for sure. I noticed locally that a lot of 2025 JLURs with a build date of last year are sitting at 17-20% off... which is enticing. Cuts out the bloat added on top of inflation.
I don't know, to me I look at all readily available cars as a depreciating assets until they hit the floor (about $4k). I know that the JL has been in a selling downward spiral since its introduction, but there were still like 150k made each year. And a lot of them are upmodel 4 doors. I know here you can go to a local Starbucks and throw a handful of cracked corn and hit six JLURs.
I've also been looking at JTRs for about the last month or so for a friend. There are a ton of fully loaded JTRs in the low $30k range under 50k miles that are newer than a JLUR so you get the remainder of the factory warranty to deal with engine and corrosion issues.
I don't know, to me I look at all readily available cars as a depreciating assets until they hit the floor (about $4k). I know that the JL has been in a selling downward spiral since its introduction, but there were still like 150k made each year. And a lot of them are upmodel 4 doors. I know here you can go to a local Starbucks and throw a handful of cracked corn and hit six JLURs.
I've also been looking at JTRs for about the last month or so for a friend. There are a ton of fully loaded JTRs in the low $30k range under 50k miles that are newer than a JLUR so you get the remainder of the factory warranty to deal with engine and corrosion issues.
Big4x4ride
Red Skull
Nail on the head. That being said, not all vehicles have been impacted the same it seems.
In 2016, we bought a brand new 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, and a 2016 Ram 2500 Tradesman the same day, both brand new. $35K for the Jeep, $37K for the Ram. Looking at a new vehicle for the wife now, so in searching I'm seeing similar Grand Cherokees for $42-44K, A similar Ram 2500 is now $66K. The price of trucks in general has gotten flat out insane.
white-rhino
Older than dirt
I’m thinking there are more JT’s because IMO they aren’t as versatile as a JL for a daily driver / grocery getter.
Okay I’m back to thinking about pulling the trigger on a JL, but it would have to be Eco Diesel to pencil out.
I see there’s a pinned CP4 available for them, probably do that for peace of mind. Anything else to consider for the Eco Diesel? With ~37s, any one have experience with real world MPG? Maybe Tech Tim ?
Is it really as easy as throwing 37s (optional) on a Rubicon JL and hitting the Rubicon confidently with family loaded up? No Chromos, RCVs, Tons required?!
I see there’s a pinned CP4 available for them, probably do that for peace of mind. Anything else to consider for the Eco Diesel? With ~37s, any one have experience with real world MPG? Maybe Tech Tim ?
Is it really as easy as throwing 37s (optional) on a Rubicon JL and hitting the Rubicon confidently with family loaded up? No Chromos, RCVs, Tons required?!
wrath
Red Skull
I know a couple people with JLs and JTs with the diesel and the only problems they've had so far are bending rear axle flanges on 37s. I believe both had done it at the same offroad park and I suspect it is the same obstacle.
Have you driven one? I don't care for the diesels. The only way I would consider it is if I ran the pink stuff.
Have you driven one? I don't care for the diesels. The only way I would consider it is if I ran the pink stuff.
That’s odd, do you mean the flange the studs press through?
No I have not
The way I’d need this to pencil out, I need the MPGs the diesel has to offer. I’ve heard from one reputable shop that the diesel JLs still get 20mpg on 37s and stock gearing, and deleted up to 30mpg.wrath
Red Skull
Yeah, the flange like what is common on the JKs. I don't know how much I'd worry about it though. Where I think they're doing it eats a lot of semi floaters and causes a lot of rigs to flop. Basically imagine sliding sideways down a greasy V. No one notices the bend until they are going down the expressway and the tire shop says they're balanced.
The people I know at work that have JLs and JTs with the diesel quit talking to me about gas mileage when I ask them to calculate it by hand and include the cost of pig piss. I do believe they get better mileage as an in-town runabout but my JKU does OK also. In fact, I bet around town it's about 18mpg. I don't drive the JKU around town enough to get an accurate calculation even though I do measure my own fuel. If I drive it back and forth to work (25.4miles each way, 19 of which is the expressway at 80+) it's more like 12mpg. It's really closer to 11, but 12mpg sounds better. In comparison, my 6.2L supercharged Sierra gets 12mpg pulling the Rubicant on my car hauler at 75mph.
I do have a friend with a JTR with the EcoDiesel and 37" BFGs but it's far from stock. He's a diesel mechanic at Cat so he tinkers a lot. He's been touched with the 'tism like me and he says he can get 30mpg out of it and I believe him. But I have no idea what it took to get there.
The people I know at work that have JLs and JTs with the diesel quit talking to me about gas mileage when I ask them to calculate it by hand and include the cost of pig piss. I do believe they get better mileage as an in-town runabout but my JKU does OK also. In fact, I bet around town it's about 18mpg. I don't drive the JKU around town enough to get an accurate calculation even though I do measure my own fuel. If I drive it back and forth to work (25.4miles each way, 19 of which is the expressway at 80+) it's more like 12mpg. It's really closer to 11, but 12mpg sounds better. In comparison, my 6.2L supercharged Sierra gets 12mpg pulling the Rubicant on my car hauler at 75mph.
I do have a friend with a JTR with the EcoDiesel and 37" BFGs but it's far from stock. He's a diesel mechanic at Cat so he tinkers a lot. He's been touched with the 'tism like me and he says he can get 30mpg out of it and I believe him. But I have no idea what it took to get there.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
- Thread starter
- #190
Running red dye is a good idea, can't imagine you'd ever get dipped
I’d be looking at using this for a daily driver for work, I get compensated based off 21mpg and average gas price local to me. So I’d be losing out on the $/gal with diesel being more than gas, but more than make up for it in MPG vs a 2.0 with premium or 3.6 at 12
I have to assume he’s deleted, but good to hear at least 2 people hearsay ~30mpg even with 37s. Any idea the gearing?
I know there’s at least one station around me that has it, but I don’t even know how much cheaper it is… I thought one time when I paid attention it wasn’t even that much cheaper?Running red dye is a good idea, can't imagine you'd ever get dipped
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
- Thread starter
- #193
Depends, I've seen it around $0.40 different and I swear I've seen it $1 different
Doesn’t seem worth it lol.
Deleting a Wrangler seems a lot more incognito than a 3/4 ton pickup… where I’d probably consider it more strongly for an eco diesel. Also, if it’s truly 10mpg different, that’s a game changer. Even 5mpg getting up to mid 20s would be awesome.
I’ve realized I might be able to make it pencil out that I keep the paid off F250, keep it mostly parked, and start daily driving a Rubicon for work and potentially be about the same operating cost per month or at worse $200 more. The F250 at 16mpg, expensive oil changes, fuel filter changes, brakes, etc is just an expensive unit to operate.
A Wrangler on 37s would be a wash probably for tire costs, and all other consumables would be cheaper I imagine.
Also solves the nervousness of wheeling the daily, worst case breaking it on a weekend wheeling trip I have the truck to drive so now sweat.
All we’re talking about is literally cruising the family through the Rubicon a couple times a year. Keep the MJ for Fordyce and harder stuff when I go solo.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
- Thread starter
- #195
Either way, I doubt you'll ever come out ahead with diesel in your scenario. You're talking about dumping money into it doing fuel pump conversions and deleting it. How much gas for a 3.6 could that buy? Then factor in more expensive sticker price, Def, more expensive fuel, fuel filters, more expensive oil changes and God forbid a break down.
I've heard the diesel has great driveability, and fuel range, but I don't think I'd buy it thinking you'll be saving money.
I've heard the diesel has great driveability, and fuel range, but I don't think I'd buy it thinking you'll be saving money.
That’s true, I’m just factoring straight operating cost per mile VS my reimbursement using AI
You’re pointing out true costs, they just don’t show up on my ongoing operating. It feels like it’s ahead because of the mileage on a diesel, $7.50/20=$0.38 whereas $6.25/13=$0.48 and I get about $0.47 per mile for fuel and consumables. Just that math is leading me to the diesel, but you’re right I should factor in the average ~$4k more buy price, $1k in CP4, and no idea on the delete if I even do that.
If I’m thinking about it right, $5k / $0.10 =50 K miles before the diesel pays off.
Although, from what I hear the eco diesel won’t need a regear for 37s but a 3.6 definitely will, so that reduces that 50k mile pay off by probably at least half if not more?
theres no “saving money” when talking about going from no vehicle payment to a payment, that’s just a fact… I’m just trying to see how I can justify it because I want it
I can either “throw” company money at operating an expensive 3/4 ton daily, or “throw” company money at paying off a toy. Just trying to make the numbers justify it
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
- Thread starter
- #198
Cost is cost, even operating will be more with Def and maintenance.
Regear is probably subjective to what gears it came with. The 8 speed makes up for a lot, but 3.31s or whatever probably still suck with 37s, where if you get a rubicon or mojave with 4.10s or 4.56s (iirc?) it's probably not bad.
Regear is probably subjective to what gears it came with. The 8 speed makes up for a lot, but 3.31s or whatever probably still suck with 37s, where if you get a rubicon or mojave with 4.10s or 4.56s (iirc?) it's probably not bad.
wrath
Red Skull
I think the first 50,000 miles he drove it without touching its 3.73s, but when it needed brakes he stole his wife's 392XR's axles and he said the gas mileage was the same but it's easier to spin tires from a dig with the 4.56s. His driving situation probably isn't ideal though. It's either irritating traffic on the expressway or 45mph back roads with a lot of stop signs. He also has two driving modes... Q-tip on his way to Sunday brunch or jilted teenager.
I was rereading some of this thread earlier and like someone pointed out, I need to stay away from the “swap” mentality for this. My mind has wandered to the “oh get a Sport because I don’t need the 4:1 with the 8spd and I’ll be getting rid of the sway bar eventually anyways and I can just swap axles” but that’s not the point.
Literally want to buy it, swap 37s, and drive to the Rubicon with the family within days of buying it. I’ll modify it as I go along, but it defeats the purpose if I “need to build it” first.
So, that means Rubicon with either 4.10s with a 3.6 or 3.73 with eco diesel.
XR package 3.6 would come with 4.56 and the wide track and beefier front. Cool options and useful, but not I’m not out to hunt for a unicorn necessarily.
I’d prefer a 3.6 from the dime a dozen stand point. I just haven’t heard anyone say they’re fine with the 3.6 and 4.10s on 37s yet, and considering I’d be daily driving it too that matters
Used definitely. New pricing is just silly. And they discontinued the eco diesel.
That’s a good point, I need to research if I can get them with extended warranty. Felt the same away about my 2021 F250 6.7, bought it with a 100k mile warranty from the previous owner because I didn’t trust it. Got to learn it over ~80k miles and started to trust it.
I read that as jihad teenager at first, which could convey the same point maybe
Good to know.
My baseline drive is a ~45m back road to the office with stop signs and lights but stretches of highway up to 60mph, with couple days a week driving up to 1.5 or sometimes 2.5hr to job sites one way in various freeway conditions from stop and go up to 80mph. My dash lie-o-meter tells me 16mpg on the F250, haven’t hand calc’d it in a while.
wrath
Red Skull
It's not the same because I have a JKUR and I only drive it in the summer with underinflated tires (fronts have 25psi in them at most) but the gas mileage is terrible with a roof rack, 35s, 4.10s, and NSG370. My Sierra makes twice the horsepower, weighs a thousand pounds more, and gets better gas mileage in all conditions. But the Sierra isn't a parachute with an inefficient minivan engine designed by toddlers picking from a JC Whitney catalog. It's more like a barn door with an engine designed by someone who went to a fly-by-night college.
I have some 5.13 axles to swap under it. I expect gas mileage will improve significantly. But a 20% improvement at 12mpg is only... 2.4mpg.
I think an 8 speed 3.6L JLUR on 37s would be fine. Sure, it's going to hunt at tip-in but I think you'd get over it.
There's enough people swapping out their JLUR SF axle sets with 4.88-5.38 now for FF axle sets that you can probably just wait until you see a deal on a set, swap them into yours, and sell your old ones for a little less. Direct axle swap is like a Saturday afternoon job.
I have some 5.13 axles to swap under it. I expect gas mileage will improve significantly. But a 20% improvement at 12mpg is only... 2.4mpg.
I think an 8 speed 3.6L JLUR on 37s would be fine. Sure, it's going to hunt at tip-in but I think you'd get over it.
There's enough people swapping out their JLUR SF axle sets with 4.88-5.38 now for FF axle sets that you can probably just wait until you see a deal on a set, swap them into yours, and sell your old ones for a little less. Direct axle swap is like a Saturday afternoon job.
DMG
Red Skull
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I was rereading some of this thread earlier and like someone pointed out, I need to stay away from the “swap” mentality for this. My mind has wandered to the “oh get a Sport because I don’t need the 4:1 with the 8spd and I’ll be getting rid of the sway bar eventually anyways and I can just swap axles” but that’s not the point.
Literally want to buy it, swap 37s, and drive to the Rubicon with the family within days of buying it. I’ll modify it as I go along, but it defeats the purpose if I “need to build it” first.
So, that means Rubicon with either 4.10s with a 3.6 or 3.73 with eco diesel.
XR package 3.6 would come with 4.56 and the wide track and beefier front. Cool options and useful, but not I’m not out to hunt for a unicorn necessarily.
I’d prefer a 3.6 from the dime a dozen stand point. I just haven’t heard anyone say they’re fine with the 3.6 and 4.10s on 37s yet, and considering I’d be daily driving it too that matters
Used definitely. New pricing is just silly. And they discontinued the eco diesel.
That’s a good point, I need to research if I can get them with extended warranty. Felt the same away about my 2021 F250 6.7, bought it with a 100k mile warranty from the previous owner because I didn’t trust it. Got to learn it over ~80k miles and started to trust it.
I read that as jihad teenager at first, which could convey the same point maybe
Good to know.
My baseline drive is a ~45m back road to the office with stop signs and lights but stretches of highway up to 60mph, with couple days a week driving up to 1.5 or sometimes 2.5hr to job sites one way in various freeway conditions from stop and go up to 80mph. My dash lie-o-meter tells me 16mpg on the F250, haven’t hand calc’d it in a while.
I knew it was discontinued, just not sure if it was this year or before.
All my **** gets crappy mileage so I bought my neighbors 2018 civic 6mt when the dealer offered him low trade in. 35 mpg and I'm not wearing out expensive tires. Why not something like that?
Tech Tim
Your AD Here....
Last year for the Eco diesel was 2023.
DMG
Red Skull
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Damn. Time flies. It seems like I was seeing new ones on the lot a year ago.
Tech Tim
Your AD Here....
We see a few diesels come through time to time. the only one I have any experience with is a JT an old friend of mine has. It's built up with an Alu-cab and all the overland bells and whistles (read that, super heavy and less aerodynamic) and he can pull 23 mpg on the interstate with a tailwind.
Sport model, 37s with 4.56 gears.
He's got it up for sale on marketplace: Facebook
That’s true, while I think it’s best to avoid a project for this scenario, swapping JL axles for JL axles is about as easy as it gets.
Looking into the warranty, looks like the diesel has 5yr/100k drivetrain so I can still catch a 2022 or 2023 with a warranty and then add an extended 8yr/125k for just a couple grand I think. The premium purchase price plus a warranty is starting to erode the advantage of the diesel over the 3.6 further though
It’s not just about trying to find something more efficient, I’m happy and fine driving the truck, but if I can justify a toy and have the company pay for it and get to use it as a toy that’s the goal
I’m starting to get more comfortable that 20ish mpg was not some one off fairy tale, between WFO recommending it and the guys here corroborating it I feel better about that.
What’s your thoughts on the 3.6 or 2.0 mileage and gearing with the 8spd, obviously thousands of people do it, still enjoyable as a daily though? I’m seeing like lows of 12-13 up to 16 mpg straight highway, does that sound right?
And if I do go gas, is the e-torque that problematic? WFO recommends staying away from them, I believe from suspension compatibility with the battery but I don’t recall if there’s reliability issues too.
wrath
Red Skull
All the people at work that have 2.0 JLUs that know they have 2.0 JLUs are glad it's a lease.
DMG
Red Skull
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Which sucks because they are zippy little things with the 8 speed.
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