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Bible iBooster Electric Brake Booster

Freerider15 said:
Well, an update.

Good news - the booster is good. Plugged the gauges into the ports (two gauges in the kit)...and it hits 1400-1500PSI.

The rear port (nearest to booster) seems to be just a little harder to get there, but gets there.

Bad news - yeah, I've got **** ton more bleeding to do :laughing:

The AL reservoir that I used, I drilled the mini hole in the cap out to 1/8npt, so that should make pressure bleeding a little easier.

When I had CNC master's on my manual setup, I had a presser bleeder cap that I made, and did the old garden sprayer conversion.

Now to coerce someone into also being a wrench monkey to open and close bleeders after pressure bleeding...
Click to expand...
I put speed bleeders on all my vehicles. Makes it a one-man job done in just a few minutes.
 
Fyi, for those of you bleeding with pressure or vac bleeders, you will want to depress the pedal to truly get all the fluid in thru the master. This link explains it better than i can..

Bleed and Flush Pointers

Bleeding and flushing hydraulic systems: options, techniques, and the importance of removing air to ensure proper brake performance.
www.brakeandfrontend.com www.brakeandfrontend.com

I used to do pressure bleeding, but have since went away from it. I just have a jar with a small hose that goes to the bottom of the jar. Open the bleeder and depress the pedal like normal. Caliper can't stuck air because the bottom of the hose is submerged in fluid...
 
JNHEscher said:
I put speed bleeders on all my vehicles. Makes it a one-man job done in just a few minutes.
Click to expand...
I'm going to get some speed bleeders anyhow (meant to some time ago when putting new calipers on), but those won't help with having one person depress the pedal, and actuating the cutting brakes. Need to build pressure back up between bleeds.

I did my cutting CNC brakes per Dustin's methods originally, and they worked well...just a PITA to do over and over.

Norcalpr said:
Fyi, for those of you bleeding with pressure or vac bleeders, you will want to depress the pedal to truly get all the fluid in thru the master. This link explains it better than i can..

Bleed and Flush Pointers

Bleeding and flushing hydraulic systems: options, techniques, and the importance of removing air to ensure proper brake performance.
www.brakeandfrontend.com www.brakeandfrontend.com

I used to do pressure bleeding, but have since went away from it. I just have a jar with a small hose that goes to the bottom of the jar. Open the bleeder and depress the pedal like normal. Caliper can't stuck air because the bottom of the hose is submerged in fluid...
Click to expand...

I think I'll have to go back to the way I used to. Pressure bleed to get it most of the way there, then the pedal/cutting brake actuation to get it truly bled.

Though, nothing still beats a vacuum bleeder for flushing a brake system. Can just let it run and run and slowly top off as needed.
 
I picked up one of these pressure bleeders a while back after using one years ago, and it's the best thing since sliced bread IMO

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCZ47L76

You can have the pressure bottle full of fluid so it continuously tops off as the master depletes, but even just using it to just put a couple dry psi into the master is awesome if you keep the fluid topped off yourself. It's really nice even on stubborn systems like when you have an ABS block that might get a little air (without running the proper scan tool purge cycle).

If you're starting from scratch with a dry master or your system is stubborn, you can just pressurize the system to like 2-3 psi, kick the pedal a couple times to get things moving, then just starting at the fittings at the master, crack the fittings one by one and let them weep due to the pressure until they run clean so you know the master is full and good to go. Might have to add a couple more pumps along the way just to agitate any air bubbles. But then after you know the master is good, you can just crack the fittings on the next downstream thing, then next downstream thing etc.

You can't really do that with vacuum, so I'm a big fan of pressure. The last one I did, I went from a fully dry master and air in the ABS block to a finished and bled system in like 5-10 minutes solo

61GKlUG+lnL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 
I am doing another one, in the G506 project.

www.evcreate.com

Installing the iBooster - EVcreate

Using and installing the iBooster made by Bosch from a used Tesla in your own car can increase breaking performance. There are various ways of mounting it.
www.evcreate.com www.evcreate.com

More details.
 
Alright, could use some brainstorming since I'm about at my wits end...

Got another booster from LKQ, pretty sure it's DOA, doesn't make any noise or make the pedal any easier when power is applied.

So original sourced booster is on. I connected pressure gauges to the to two outfeed 3an lines (~18") to see pressure. I get ~1200psi at each, so that tells me it should be good. When doing that, the pedal also gets firm around the halfway mark as expected.

At this time, I've bypassed everything but the front brakes. Currently the master is going to just the fronts, so instead of one line per front/rear, it's one line per caliper. This should mean nice firm brakes right? Still nope. I can see the calipers move (JB7 calipers), but still don't get the pressure. As a note, I've pressure bled them, and pedal bled them...not a whole lot of line or ability to retain air at this point.

I questioned back and forth if the car master can move enough volume. But, given that I had one line to each caliper, and others seemingly using the car master on similar/same setups...seems like that shouldn't be the issue. The (front) calipers are new, and while the line itself is slightly different (Parker Parflex Nylon instead of Speedway), setup is essentially the same as with my manual setup.

Part of me is tempted to throw the old calipers on just to see if there's any difference.

I'll put gauges on the lines right before the connect to the calipers tonight to double check it isn't something with the line between the master and caliper, but I'm not getting any leaks and it's better line than I used previously.

Brakes is the last thing holding me up from this rig being done nearly 3 years later than planned...
 
Just to confirm:

Pedal ratio: 4:1
Brake calipers: JB7

Master cylinder: 1" bore?
Pedal travel distance?


Freerider15 said:
Alright, could use some brainstorming since I'm about at my wits end...

Got another booster from LKQ, pretty sure it's DOA, doesn't make any noise or make the pedal any easier when power is applied.

So original sourced booster is on. I connected pressure gauges to the to two outfeed 3an lines (~18") to see pressure. I get ~1200psi at each, so that tells me it should be good. When doing that, the pedal also gets firm around the halfway mark as expected.

At this time, I've bypassed everything but the front brakes. Currently the master is going to just the fronts, so instead of one line per front/rear, it's one line per caliper. This should mean nice firm brakes right? Still nope. I can see the calipers move (JB7 calipers), but still don't get the pressure. As a note, I've pressure bled them, and pedal bled them...not a whole lot of line or ability to retain air at this point.

I questioned back and forth if the car master can move enough volume. But, given that I had one line to each caliper, and others seemingly using the car master on similar/same setups...seems like that shouldn't be the issue. The (front) calipers are new, and while the line itself is slightly different (Parker Parflex Nylon instead of Speedway), setup is essentially the same as with my manual setup.

Part of me is tempted to throw the old calipers on just to see if there's any difference.

I'll put gauges on the lines right before the connect to the calipers tonight to double check it isn't something with the line between the master and caliper, but I'm not getting any leaks and it's better line than I used previously.

Brakes is the last thing holding me up from this rig being done nearly 3 years later than planned...
Click to expand...
 
Why the nylon tubing instead of good old fashioned hard rigid tubing? I can remember when PTFE brake hose came out people thought they could plumb their brake system completely with it. They were left with weak mushy brakes. Braid PTFE tubing was acting as a rubber band. Maybe it is just me, but only place flexible lines belong is right at the calipers, so calipers can float or turn with the knuckle.

Plumb the fronts the same way you have it now one port to each caliper with some rigid tubing. It doesn't have to be pretty just functional.
 
Chkn said:
Just to confirm:

Pedal ratio: 4:1
Brake calipers: JB7

Master cylinder: 1" bore?
Pedal travel distance?
Click to expand...

Bore is 25mm, so essentially 1"
Travel is ~1.25" per google and Page 1.

SandhillsHB said:
Why the nylon tubing instead of good old fashioned hard rigid tubing? I can remember when PTFE brake hose came out people thought they could plumb their brake system completely with it. They were left with weak mushy brakes. Braid PTFE tubing was acting as a rubber band. Maybe it is just me, but only place flexible lines belong is right at the calipers, so calipers can float or turn with the knuckle.

Plumb the fronts the same way you have it now one port to each caliper with some rigid tubing. It doesn't have to be pretty just functional.
Click to expand...

Nylon tubing works just fine, and has for hundreds of rigs (and myself in the prior setup).

Rigid tubing is great, when you're not running a buggy. Braided PTFE is run by many as well, and is a standard for many top end builders in many vehicles across the vehicle spectrum...there's no reason PTFE should give spongy brakes unless it's damaged.
 
Plugged the numbers into a few sites and I think the master is too undersized for the calipers or the calipers are too oversized for the master.

motionraceworks.com

Brake System Setup and Calculations

Motion Raceworks manufactures and provides innovation solutions for modern day high performance and race cars. Motion Raceworks owns and sells parts from Motion Raceworks, RIFE Sensors, TBM Brakes, Fluidworks, and more!
motionraceworks.com motionraceworks.com
1776357517630.png

1776357834061.png


If I have read the calculator correctly then based on your current setup the master cylinder has to travel 80% of its range (1.2" of 1.5" inches) to reach the minimum volume of the brake system. That only leaves 20% travel (.3") to build pressure. The math seems to match your experience that the majority of pedal travel doesn't operate the brakes and only the second half of pedal travel has feel. This would also affect the ability to drive through the brakes in low range.
 
Yeah, somewhat my brain want to believe that makes sense, but it seems many others have now used the same booster/master with same or larger calipers and report it working for them.

Trying to put my thinking hat on...when I had the gauges connected straight to the output of the master, the pedal still traveled to near halfway before hitting the wall where pressure built quick. While that is what I'd expect with calipers connected, shouldn't it have pretty well hit pressure with very little travel since there wasn't much to move (e.g. 12" of rigid hose and a guage on each port).

When I have the calipers connected, I can see fluid movement and some caliper movement as I push the pedal down to where it starts to get some stiffness, but it's hard for me to know exactly how much travel to expect, when it should be where on pressure, etc.

The fact that when essentially the master was "plugged", with the gauges connected and the pedal still traveled that far...makes me think the push rod maybe isn't traveling as it should, and engaging as far/hard as soon as it should.

Without a 100% known working booster, it's hard for me to tell if this one's fine.

I am tempted to throw my Wilwood manual setup back on and just run that for the year...and shelve this until maybe later...since I've not wheeled now for ~3 years already...and brakes are the last bit.
 
I've not done it with it off, I'll check that as well tonight.

As a note, travel for the iBooster is ~1.25", not 1.5".

I do see that the 1.125" Wilwood master that's commonly enough used (e.g. backbay customs mounts as well) have a travel of 1.1".

The manual Wilwood master's show 1.43".
 
Well, it looks like I may have figured it out, some I feel kinda 100% dumb for.

I measured the master cylinder's push rod (used another I screwed up) to see about how much travel it had. It has about 1.25"-ish of travel with it bottomed out.

I decided to pull the master off, and see how much travel the booster rod was making with a set of calipers.

With my pedal bottomed out, I was getting ~0.80-0.85" of stroke (short of flush with the booster face). I powered up the booster, and verified that the rod would go past the booster face and retract just fine (e.g. longer travel). So...In was short of full stroke.

I'd calculated a travel just short of full for my pedal (pedal bottoms out just before master), just maybe a bit...too...short.

I pulled the pedal off, and rigged up another (square tube bolted in).

Put the pressure gauge on the caliper...and was able to get 1000-1200 psi with just my hand (would prefer more effort though).

So...long story short...I missed on the design aspect in my pedal and made my throw too short. :laughing: :homer:

I'd thought I'd hit the pressure wall, but needed just a hair more throw to go from 200psi to 1k-1.2k psi.
 
Freerider15 said:
Well, it looks like I may have figured it out, some I feel kinda 100% dumb for.

I measured the master cylinder's push rod (used another I screwed up) to see about how much travel it had. It has about 1.25"-ish of travel with it bottomed out.

I decided to pull the master off, and see how much travel the booster rod was making with a set of calipers.

With my pedal bottomed out, I was getting ~0.80-0.85" of stroke (short of flush with the booster face). I powered up the booster, and verified that the rod would go past the booster face and retract just fine (e.g. longer travel). So...In was short of full stroke.

I'd calculated a travel just short of full for my pedal (pedal bottoms out just before master), just maybe a bit...too...short.

I pulled the pedal off, and rigged up another (square tube bolted in).

Put the pressure gauge on the caliper...and was able to get 1000-1200 psi with just my hand (would prefer more effort though).

So...long story short...I missed on the design aspect in my pedal and made my throw too short. :laughing: :homer:

I'd thought I'd hit the pressure wall, but needed just a hair more throw to go from 200psi to 1k-1.2k psi.
Click to expand...
So more pedal ratio? Or just more pedal throw? 4:1 still seems kinda low 5-6:1 seems better.
 
Winchested said:
So more pedal ratio? Or just more pedal throw? 4:1 still seems kinda low 5-6:1 seems better.
Click to expand...
More pedal throw.

4:1 is OEM with the car master, anything higher starts to get into manual brake land, which makes it too easy.

snivilous - Would you happen to have/be able to get some dimension comparisons or shots of the size difference between the f350 master and the Accord car master?
 
Took some measurements in order to do some design in Fusion for brake pedal setup to be able to run through some pedal ratio numbers.

Based on current plan/thoughts and numbers, I should have 6 different ratios to choose from with some staggered holes for the upper pivot from basically 2.7ish to 5.4ish ratio (current selection based on several layouts run). I'll likely make multiple mounting holes to allow the booster to move up and down a little as well, which will give me a whole lot of variability for ratios, also in case some day in the future I try a different master cylinder (I do have an F350 one landing today to see if it makes sense to try and fit).

On another note, credit to LKQ. The booster that I got from them was DOA (doesn't power up or do anything), just got off the phone and they're going to send me another, and just told me to scrap the dead one. It's a shame, since the one they sent is really clean :laughing:
 
Studying iboosters cause my buggy needs better brakes.. Currently running an "inverted" GM vacuum booster, having the MC right by my left knee. No issue there.
Looks like I could fit a Tesla booster in the same space.

What I struggle to figure out though is how much added force the ibooster can provide without all the CAN stuff.
If wired like the OP, is it going to "fallback assist" and only providing ? amount of boost?

A vacuum booster is typically 1:5 (?). I'm wondering what that number would be for an ibooster in fallback mode..
 
No way said:
A vacuum booster is typically 1:5 (?). I'm wondering what that number would be for an ibooster in fallback mode..
Click to expand...

Can't give you a number but I'd suggest when it's in 'fallback' mode you'll be getting it's maximum boost, as this is worst case in the vehicle & anything less would be a safety risk.
 
Picked up this chunk. Gonna give it a go.
2017 Tesla S

Wiring should be according to Gen1..
It's a lumpy fawker but I can flip the MC 180degrees, which should make it way easier to package.


TMS90AWD_2017.jpg


models.jpg
 
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Well, I now have 4 brake boosters...

The one I got off ebay that's good.

The first from LKQ as a functional check / spare - it was DOA.

The second (first replacement) from LKQ is functional - but the plastic around the board cracked. It's looks like one could glue/repair it.

The third (second replacement) from LKQ...sitting in the box still in the living room.

I will give them credit, each time it was an easy call...let them know the issue...and they got another one on the way. I even let them know I was more than willing to take pictures of the cracked last one, but was told it was just fine, and to scrap as I desired.

On another note, did another well involved bleed today with my neighbor buddy helping. Still would get a bit of the needing to pump a time or two to hit 1k psi at the caliper (usually 6-750 with one initial pump).

Looked closer at my driver's front JB7 caliper (installed new before all of this), and it's bunk. It moves freely on the slide pins and doesn't hold pressure when there's no braking, unlike the other 3 that are nice and stiff. So, no wonder there was a bit of frustration...I'm losing quite a bit just to that caliper.

So...I'll get that one replaced and then should ideally be good.
 
FWIW - The bolt pattern of the Tesla booster matches standard GM. Bolted right in where my Saab/GM booster sat.
So far so good.
 
Installed and hooked up. Haven't bothered to bleed the brakes yet.

Fuggin thing is bad ass!
:smokin:


I gently stomped the brakes on dry asphalt, not really expecting much. Almost hurt myself :laughing:

I'm running dual Suzuki calipers up front, so 6 in total. I also have cutting brakes right/left and could easily lock up one side with no effort.


Easily the best upgrade I've done to this buggy. Super easy install too. Just don't set it up to over stroke, apparently they don't like that. 4 wires, 3 fuses.
The pedal travel sensor needs to be wired in but the 4 wires have the same colors as the ones in the main plug where they need to be connected. Super easy.

I have about a 4:1 pedal ratio and the ibooster should have 32-35mm of travel.

1778695661899.png
 
Drawn up a little bracket to mount the stock Accord reservoir to a 1.75" chassis tube, gonna plasma it out tomorrow... just need to add the bolt hole.

Brake Res. Bracket.jpg

Will post up the .dxf once it's done :rockon:
 
The reservoir ended up having to go on the front of the pedal box to get the output above the small one on the master cylinder & the pipe around the steering shaft. Will add a bump into the side panel when we get that far.

IMG_3288.jpeg IMG_3287.jpeg

FYI... if your buying a res. check it's only got a single outlet pipe, the ones for the hybrid vehicles have two.... don't ask how I found that one out :idea:
 
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