Data centers at it again

Yota Up said:
Seems like people local to data centers don't benefit from them.
Not like an Amazon building that makes jobs.
Do any people cheer for and want a data center near their home?

If not, do their votes count?
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Provience said:
Are they built and sustained by magic?
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ApeEater said:
I’m sure there are some benefits for an area with data centers, but significant job numbers isn’t one of them.
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Provience said:
:laughing:

Employ a bunch more people building roads by hands, no machines allowed.
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subybaja said:
Most tech advances reduce human labor. That's kinda the point.
Imagine how many jobs were lost to this, and yet there aren't roving bands of starving farmers.
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The comment was, data centers don’t do much for the areas they’re built in, and that’s accurate.
 
subybaja said:
GE design yes...from the stone age.

"The Fukushima Daiichi reactors, commissioned between 1971 and 1979, were based on a General Electric (GE) Boiling Water Reactor (BWR) design from the 1960s. The reactors used a "Mark I" containment system, which was widely considered an older design, with key design warnings about potential failure during accident."
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Pretty good design, poorly planned real estate where the Japs put it.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
Please explain?
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He’s being very literal. Yes, there are some jobs. It’s of course a net negative, killing many jobs at the same time. Plus consuming water, generating **** tons of heat, making some noise, and lots of light pollution. It won’t ever work out for the small towns targeted. They (the cities) will spend lots of infrastructure money banking on future taxes. Then the data centers will be abandoned and bankrupt when the next thing hits in a handful of years.

Overall, this stuff absolutely strengthens the surveillance state, moves us closer to absolute control, and as always—makes us pay for it.

These things are horrible. You know they are, because politicians love them and get enriched off them.

I’m sure a job or two was created to install thousands of Flock cameras. Only an idiot would cheer that.
 
OHV Wildcat said:
He’s being very literal. Yes, there are some jobs. It’s of course a net negative, killing many jobs at the same time. Plus consuming water, generating **** tons of heat, making some noise, and lots of light pollution. It won’t ever work out for the small towns targeted. They (the cities) will spend lots of infrastructure money banking on future taxes. Then the data centers will be abandoned and bankrupt when the next thing hits in a handful of years.

Overall, this stuff absolutely strengthens the surveillance state, moves us closer to absolute control, and as always—makes us pay for it.

These things are horrible. You know they are, because politicians love them and get enriched off them.

I’m sure a job or two was created to install thousands of Flock cameras. Only an idiot would cheer that.
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What jobs are you killing with a data center? The hundreds of people that would normally be building brick roads with hand dried bricks?

Government giving away all the tax benefits isn't jobs related, that's dumb government related. Same as the surveillance capacity of them.
 
Provience said:
What jobs are you killing with a data center? The hundreds of people that would normally be building brick roads with hand dried bricks?

Government giving away all the tax benefits isn't jobs related, that's dumb government related. Same as the surveillance capacity of them.
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Just every job that AI is in the process of killing. You know that’s what these are for, right?

The government doesn’t hand out that money because it’s stupid. It does it to enrich itself, and, uh, enpoor the populace. The surveillance state is its own reason for being. All a person can do is try to make it tougher to implement by, say, trying to stop the data center construction.
 
OHV Wildcat said:
Just every job that AI is in the process of killing. You know that’s what these are for, right?

The government doesn’t hand out that money because it’s stupid. It does it to enrich itself, and, uh, enpoor the populace. The surveillance state is its own reason for being. All a person can do is try to make it tougher to implement by, say, trying to stop the data center construction.
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I agree, computers are job killers. All you communist labor-first homos fantasize pre industrial Europe.

Good luck. Fighting a locally placed data center won't change any of that.


But it's also an absurd statement to say the data center is a job killer because it represents computer replacement of middle and white collar low value jobs. Hence why it depends on what "much" is considered.
 
OHV Wildcat said:
Just every job that AI is in the process of killing. You know that’s what these are for, right?

The government doesn’t hand out that money because it’s stupid. It does it to enrich itself, and, uh, enpoor the populace. The surveillance state is its own reason for being. All a person can do is try to make it tougher to implement by, say, trying to stop the data center construction.
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I just read an article about a town that voted down a data center with an overwhelming majority and they were given permits and started building anyway..... That tells you everything you need to know about these places.
 
I think the North Slope oil infrastructure is a very good parallel. There are thousands involved in the building, maintenance, and operation. I'd love to see anyone make a serious argument that the Slope hasn't been a net gain for Ak.

Anyone whining about AI taking our jerbs needs to go ask the manual weavers how that went. Yes it is, and that's part of why we only work 40 hours a week. Automation of dumb work frees humans from drudgery.
 
I saw something on FB about them wanting to put in one in NM, I understand they use alot of water, where are they going to get it. The Rio Grande that is dry most of the year? It'll be another boon doogle like the space port
 
subybaja said:
I think the North Slope oil infrastructure is a very good parallel. There are thousands involved in the building, maintenance, and operation. I'd love to see anyone make a serious argument that the Slope hasn't been a net gain for Ak.

Anyone whining about AI taking our jerbs needs to go ask the manual weavers how that went. Yes it is, and that's part of why we only work 40 hours a week. Automation of dumb work frees humans from drudgery.
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The North Slope has been going for what, 65 years or so? How long do you think data center construction will be creating jobs?

And I’m pretty confident this AI stuff is going to remove the human element from accounting, branches of engineering, everyday attorney stuff, most clerical jobs, most programming jobs, and I’m sure a million other things. At the same time that automation is saving people from the drudgery of retail work, professional driving, and maybe soon cleaning jobs.

People like to point to the Industrial Revolution. I think it’s a bit different for farms to become mechanized over a 50 year period compared to today, where massive swaths of the job market will become automated in maybe 10 years. Plus, all those unemployed farmers moved to the cities to take part in the massive manufacturing boom that took off at the same time.

I don’t see any careers taking off right now except maybe ****posting, and that doesn’t feed anyone.
 
Provience said:
No, it's not accurate.


Guess it depends on the person's definition of "much".
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They are generally a net negative on the community as a whole. The data centers will find ten different locations then pit the towns against each other to get the best deal. They end up with favorable tax’s on the lot and utilities the one here locked in utilities for 25 years and had tax abatement for 50 years. The majority of the construction is done by contractors from outside of the communities and the few people that end up working at the data center don’t offset the higher utility cost for the community as a whole. You also have the light and noise pollution from the campus in general. The towns would be better off just developing the area as standard commercial or residential developments instead of data centers.
 
These things are everywhere. There’s currently approximately 15 million square feet of data centers built, in construction, or in planning in Iowa.
There’s been talk of some being proposed in the Wisconsin north woods.
Some counties in Iowa are now trying to pass zoning regulations to not allow them, or seriously restrict their size.

Aside from the insane amount of money the construction crews make over the 5 year construction period there’s not much for future gain for a community.
Higher utility costs. Ridiculous amounts of water usage.
Apparently the maintenance personnel make decent money, but it doesn’t take a lot of them.
 
Most of the talking points y'all are regurgitating is the same damn **** the Karens and the hippies used to ship all our industry overseas in decades past.

You cab more or less replace data center with aluminum foundry for the purpose of this discussion. They're basically the same other than the later will generate truck traffic as it runs.

How many of the people who are whining here would be going to bat for aluminum plants?
 
arse_sidewards said:
Most of the talking points y'all are regurgitating is the same damn **** the Karens and the hippies used to ship all our industry overseas in decades past.

You cab more or less replace data center with aluminum foundry for the purpose of this discussion. They're basically the same other than the later will generate truck traffic as it runs.

How many of the people who are whining here would be going to bat for aluminum plants?
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They are a construction gold mine. I say keep chooching along. :laughing:
 
Pocahontas said:
. The data centers will find ten different locations then pit the towns against each other to get the best deal. They end up with favorable tax’s on the lot and utilities the one here locked in utilities for 25 years and had tax abatement for 50 years.
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So? Shouldn't we all get that?

Pocahontas said:
The majority of the construction is done by contractors from outside of the communities a
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Weren't you just complaining those subs were poaching your guys? Or was that the electrician?
Pocahontas said:
The towns would be better off just developing the area as standard commercial or residential developments instead of data centers.
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With what use case to justify it?

Provience said:
But it's also an absurd statement to say the data center is a job killer because it represents computer replacement of middle and white collar low value jobs.
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And these same people will shamelessly complain out the other side of their mouths about administrative overhead.

It's mind boggling.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Weren't you just complaining those subs were poaching your guys? Or was that the electrician?
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Every trade contractor within an hour of one of them is having staffing issues from employees leaving to work on them, and/or nobody being available to hire because of them. It sucks, but it's short term. It will suck worse for the workers that spend 3-5 years making insane money and then have to go back to regular wages. :laughing:
 
The first DATA center I worked on was in Quincy, WA back in 2005. Been involved with many variations of DATA centers ever since as an electrician.

I agree it should be every communities choice as to allow the development or not. Just like every other NIMBY project.

But there is so much anti DC bull**** being spewed. Taking the land out of agriculture production is a non argument. You could argue we have too much land in ag that is being subsidized at a rate higher than the tax relief these facilities see. The AI centers up here use closed loop cooling witch is not even close to the 5mil gal that is being said. That number came from the older evaporative cooling block chain centers. The fact the DC boom has kept numerous power houses and coal mines open, or even reopening, could be a net gain for a lot of communities that nobody wants to discus. You have private equity paying to build new infrastructure for the power grid that is not coming out of your monthly power bill. And of course the workforce is coming from out of town. Around here, anything bigger than a 10,000sf retail center is built by an out of town workforce. Hell the big commercial roofing company around here has a private plane that fly's their crews in on Monday and back home on Friday. But that workforce pays local sales tax and loves to fill hotels and eat out. Hell, some of them find the area accommodating and buy a house and become locals. The big DC's up here are figuring 200-300 local fulltime jobs when operating and 1200-1500 during construction.

And in the end when when they have refined the AI chips to be so efficient that they only need a couple DC's then we get these 1,000,000sf facilities to turn into giant indoor go-cart tracks and that is when we as humanity really win :flipoff2:
 
So apparently we already have a data center here. It's a building with all the windows blacked out and cameras ALL over. Plus satellite dishes, etc.
I've never seen anyone over there.

Was told it was something for Bezos. The guys renting in there before said it had a fenced in entrance in the building and while they were moving out stuff was getting installed so they were escorted by armed security.

Which was odd, many buildings here aren't even locked. My boss got all weird about it.
Yeahhh. Want to fight with a lock when it's -40* and can barely stand up in the 50+ mph wind? Half the time the door is drifted in or froze anyhow.

Someone else last week told me it's a DOD data center.
 
AKnate said:
So apparently we already have a data center here. It's a building with all the windows blacked out and cameras ALL over. Plus satellite dishes, etc.

Was told it was something for Bezos but someone else told me it's a DOD thing.
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There are data centers all over the country, have been for decades. Most would have had multiple clients.

Many of these new data centers are single client/single purpose.
 
ApeEater said:
There are data centers all over the country, have been for decades. Most would have had multiple clients.

Many of these new data centers are single client/single purpose.
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We used to have server rooms for CAS-B (Combat Ammunition System - Base level)when I was in the Air Force. Stuff setup in the late 80s-90s. By early 2000s was getting replaced with online versions. CasB was green screen, no mouse, DOS based.

We "deployed" to a shut down base in Korea to support ONE and turned that room into the break room. Was a large room, probably 1000sq ft
The A/C was crazy, could hang near in there! Was awesome as it was 90s and near 100% humidity outside.
 
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Yota Up said:
Seems like people local to data centers don't benefit from them.
Not like an Amazon building that makes jobs.
Do any people cheer for and want a data center near their home?

If not, do their votes count?
Click to expand...
They're bringing lots of apartments which keeps my property taxes down. Plus everyone is going to to move away and vacations those apartments when they're done being built so it should fix the housing problem.
It's also someone for the City/County/State to tax.

I'm all for data centers. I use the internet and smart phones. **** yeah. Build baby build. Make America great again. Support blue collar jobs. The ones here figure out how to cool things without water and make power without taxing the power company.
 
ApeEater said:
Obviously depends on the size of the complex. No ****.

Point is, they bring very few jobs with them in relation to their size, energy, and water usage.

I’m sure there are some benefits for an area with data centers, but significant job numbers isn’t one of them.
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We have so many jobs revolving around data centers people from Texas are moving here to work 12 hour days. Ever single RV park within an hour drive is full with 1,000 people on a waiting list if they're even taking names. When they're completed you have computer engineers working remotely to maintain them, and electricians locally to do hands on work.


There are a **** ton of jobs data centers bring. Maybe you're thinking 'well when they are finished being built and I imagine there isn't anything to do'.

It's like saying a power plant doesn't bring jobs to an area, or an oil drilling operating doesn't bring jobs. **** yeah it does. With all the people here the city and towns have to develop. Schools need more teachers. Grocery stores need more people stocking shelves. Amazon needs more drivers to deliver **** to the RV park. Propane sales, gas stations, welding shops, etc. all kinds of jobs are created because more money comes to town with the out of state people relocating. It's been over a decade and literally nothing is slowing down with data centers.






You sound comparable to the people saying 'this area can't sustain these home prices. This is a bubble. It's going to pop'. The only bubble popping is the one you're living in.
 
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