350TacoZilla
Well-known member
There are JL's and JT's with stock axles on 37-38's so I would think on a samurai they would be pretty much good for anything lol. Basically like a one ton swap for a jeep
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Last Call Guest on these Group Buy Deal Items from Baja Designs
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- #212
That’s been my thought that started the thread the whole time. I wheel with guys with built JK/JL Rubicons that beat the **** out of them. My friend Danny is running 37” sticky Krawlers on his. Has a manual transmission and I have videos of him full throttle dumping the clutch to bounce it up ledges and walls and not breaking. I think they’ll be bomb proof in something exactly half the weight of the jeep.There are JL's and JT's with stock axles on 37-38's so I would think on a samurai they would be pretty much good for anything lol. Basically like a one ton swap for a jeep
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
I thought 15s would not fit JL brakes?
For sxs 35s on a zuk, JK stuff should be more than enough.
I was referring to using JL c and knuckle on a custom axle, then adapting 99-04 D60 unit bearings. At that point, just go with full 99-04 outters.
I do think there is a market for a JL knuckle that takes D60 unit bearings or spindles for the JL crowd
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- #214
I’m told that they won’t. But I’m also told that JK brakes should bolt on to the JL outers and then I’m set.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
- Thread starter
- #216
Not as overkill as a 99-04 superduty.Boom
Good to know. Still feels like serious overkill, but why not I guess
And since I’m planning on doing the stupid low diff gears paired with 4.24:1 t-case gears. The shafts will have the potential for a lot of multiplied torque. If I do 35’s, 6.50:1 diff gears are what’s going in it.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
I'm still waiting to see how much wieght is really saved. Seems like they're pretty close in size.
Either way, I get it, if you want 5x5" I get why not do the biggest outters you can.
If you haven't watched dex jeeps on you tube, it would give you much more faith in jeep rcv's. He beats the absolute **** out of xj d30 rcv's. Not trying to talk you out ok JL stuff, it's just worth the watch
Tech Tim
Your AD Here....
What is a custom axle? An axle that is built for a specific need.
What if that need is for a smaller weight, smaller tire, smaller HO/TQ vehicle? Would that need 99-04 outers?
The point I will always try to get across is to design your parts to your needs.
Overkill is overkill.
People are adapting JL brakes to JKs as an upgrade, so they should go the other way.
👍👍👍
gobi_rubi
Well-known member
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Do you have a wms-wms in mind? With only 35s im assuming you dont need super wide. Maybe setting up a fab 9 with stock length JL 1410 shafts would work. The long side sealing surface would be goofy with the revolutions but Mitchell said they retube to delete the FAD so im assuming they switch to a traditional seal setup
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- #220
60~65
I want things easy. JL inner shafts being 32 spline, even if it’s doable, I’m not putting any effort into making a 32 spline 9” diff. I’ll just do 1480 35 spline inners because that’s easy street.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
I feel like you're not reading what I'm saying. But I'll move on
I'm still waiting for an actual wieght difference between the 2 set ups. My guess is it is not that different.
'84 Bronco II
El Chingón
The '99-'04 stuff isn't that much lighter than the '05+ outers. Per the weight thread, a '99-'04 knuckle with weld on high steer weighs 30 Lbs, which is heavier than a stock '05+ Knuckle (~27Lbs.) You would still probably end up ~100 Lbs more than JL outers. Hell, with the weight of stock brakes it might be more than that. Just knuckles and unit bearings is ~50 Lb difference alone ('05+ vs JL w/ aluminum knuckles).
Tech Tim
Your AD Here....
I get what you're trying to say.
'99 F350 Unit bearing hub aprox ~23 lbs
'18 JL UBH aprox ~12 lbs
'99 F350 knuckle aprox ~35lbs
'18 JL knuckle 7lbs
I say approx, that is the middle of the road shipping weights from various websites by harvested by Google AI
Both sides '99 SD knuckle and UBH: 116 lbs
Both sides: '18 JL knuckle and UBH: 36 lbs.
gobi_rubi
Well-known member
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I wonder if Mitchell could shorten and respline to 35. I never asked about spline options with the v 1410 only custom length. Then you wouldn't have to worry about machining the knuckle but maybe thats not a big deal
Weasel
Well-known member
Swing by CA and pick up my 65” wms junk 609 parts and slap those Mitchel 1480 stub shaft outers on
- Thread starter
- #227
Whatchu got homie?Swing by CA and pick up my 65” wms junk 609 parts and slap those Mitchel 1480 stub shaft outers on
Sno fighter 34.56 long side, BJ ford 16.17 short unused 35sp Yukons and Nitro 1480 joints is maybe all you’d be interested in. The rest is junkyard collected stuff for a 609. Should be 65” WMS with Dodge outers, maybe close with JK stuff never did the math.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Any idea on the dodge stuff?
Fwiw, The post you first quoted was referring to adapting the 99-04 Ub to the JL axle. Which would negate all the wieght savings.
The aluminum knuckles are obviously hard to beat wieght wise. I guess would probably be fine in a light ass rig?
Those are discontinued I believe?
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Really interesting recent conversations overall, and the ever-present struggle over unsprung weight. I used to shrug it off pretty heavily, but I’ve come around. And amplified 10x if it’s going to be a daily driver.
These days, if I have a swiss army knife build in mind, I no longer shrug off those 20lb or even 10lb weight differences. It’s hard to put words around, but the difference in how a D30 drives with light non-beadlock wheels and light 35” tires, versus how a heavier axle rig drives with heavy beadlocks and the heaviest 35”s known to man is actually pretty wild. Granted I know some can be cured with shock tuning, but that can’t solve the critical sprung to unsprung mass ratio entirely.
I used to be all gung-ho overkill everything, but these days I’m more tempted to push the undersized stuff far past its limits before stepping up to heavy components. Granted I’m more web wheeler than anything these days so my opinion shouldn’t be worth jack lol
These days, if I have a swiss army knife build in mind, I no longer shrug off those 20lb or even 10lb weight differences. It’s hard to put words around, but the difference in how a D30 drives with light non-beadlock wheels and light 35” tires, versus how a heavier axle rig drives with heavy beadlocks and the heaviest 35”s known to man is actually pretty wild. Granted I know some can be cured with shock tuning, but that can’t solve the critical sprung to unsprung mass ratio entirely.
I used to be all gung-ho overkill everything, but these days I’m more tempted to push the undersized stuff far past its limits before stepping up to heavy components. Granted I’m more web wheeler than anything these days so my opinion shouldn’t be worth jack lol
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Totally agree with all of this. Gotten in a few arguments on here with guys saying "just swap 05+ superduty axles in"
Yes, they're awesome cost to strength, but there are downsides for a lot of people's use.
To play devils advocate. If it's just a rock crawler. I wouldn't worry about unsprung wieght so much.
- Thread starter
- #232
I’ve been that douche bag. But I’m amending my ideas for the Toyota and down size rigs.
I have Superduties and they are CHEAP! I can be all in for a built pair under $2K and they’ll be stronger than I need. The little JK/9’s will be a little more expensive but I’m buying my way out of the weight penalty box.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Me too, it makes sense for a lot of people. Most people don't hardly want to trim brackets off, much less build an entire custom axle.
But when someone asks what axles for a Tacoma on 37s to cruise to and through rubicon, I don't think they're it.
If we weren't ******ed about deep axle gears, just swapping the diff to pass side on a JK or JL axle would probably be just fine too.
gobi_rubi
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I think they pop up on Rock Auto occasionally. I have one sitting on my desk but I dont remember how long ago I picked it up
'84 Bronco II
El Chingón
No, I have never dealt with Dodge stuff outside of walking right past it in the Junkyard
They hold up reasonably well, and in a sub-4K rig, you would have a hard time hurting them. You have to keep in mind just how many of these 4 door JLs weigh well over 6,000Lbs. There is a thread on JL Wrangler Forums where a lot of people are at or over their GVWR (~6,200Lbs) with a 4 door with basic bolt on bumpers, winch, sliders, and 37s. My aluminum knuckles came from a guy who was running 40" tires on a 4 door, granted he wasn't the most hardcore wheeler, but the knuckles were fine aside from being a bit beat up from removing tie rods and ball joints. Between that and Tech Tim mentioning that guys wheeling hard were egging out the tapers were why I swapped to the Synergy knuckles. But even a bone stock 2 door Rubicon weighs ~4,500Lbs, and I bet most built 2 doors are over 5,000Lbs.
Trevlaw
Sketchy Machinist
Here's some ****ty pics of a JL M210 ring gear (on the locker) vs a TJ D44 ring gear. I forget what ratios they are, but you can kind of get an idea for how they cut the teeth on the new Advantek axles now.
Also when comparing anecdotes on JK vs JL breakage, might be good to keep in mind that the spider gear cross pin in the JL factory lockers has a hole drilled through the center of it cause engineers lol. The M210 diff I picked up blew up that cross pin and took out everything else, which wouldn't be an issue with a an aftermarket locker.
There's pics in my thread that was linked in post #9 here. I've done a ****ty job updating it, but I'm working on laying out positions for a couple load bolts on my M210 diff, one above and below the pinion I think since there's a big rib in the casting right behind the pinion.
For those that have put hands on the JL m210 and m220 housings, what are your thoughts on the casting being significantly thinner in areas vs a classic D44? Obviously it has a lot more ribbing, so I'm hoping the engineers put the strength where they need it vs just making the whole thing big and thick. I'm a little concerned about welding a load bolt into a 1/4"? Thick casting and have the force from the ring gear causing cracks down the road. Or bashing the housing into a rock and blowing a hole in it.
I'm just going full send into the advantek axles, load bolts, carrier bearing cap girdle, custom diff cover, 35 spline inners and outers, 99-04 outers with currie aluminum knuckles. Fully polished turds lol
Also when comparing anecdotes on JK vs JL breakage, might be good to keep in mind that the spider gear cross pin in the JL factory lockers has a hole drilled through the center of it cause engineers lol. The M210 diff I picked up blew up that cross pin and took out everything else, which wouldn't be an issue with a an aftermarket locker.
There's pics in my thread that was linked in post #9 here. I've done a ****ty job updating it, but I'm working on laying out positions for a couple load bolts on my M210 diff, one above and below the pinion I think since there's a big rib in the casting right behind the pinion.
For those that have put hands on the JL m210 and m220 housings, what are your thoughts on the casting being significantly thinner in areas vs a classic D44? Obviously it has a lot more ribbing, so I'm hoping the engineers put the strength where they need it vs just making the whole thing big and thick. I'm a little concerned about welding a load bolt into a 1/4"? Thick casting and have the force from the ring gear causing cracks down the road. Or bashing the housing into a rock and blowing a hole in it.
I'm just going full send into the advantek axles, load bolts, carrier bearing cap girdle, custom diff cover, 35 spline inners and outers, 99-04 outers with currie aluminum knuckles. Fully polished turds lol
gobi_rubi
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Thats really interesting! Im curious what your thoughts/reasoning is on your build vs what most of us proposed here. It seems like most of the hybrid talks here are of using the jk/jl outers with 9" centers while you are doing the opposite. Do you feel the outers are a weak point? Or do you have specific clearance needs that make the m210 more logical? Or just looking for a bigger bolt pattern to match a full float rear?Here's some ****ty pics of a JL M210 ring gear (on the locker) vs a TJ D44 ring gear. I forget what ratios they are, but you can kind of get an idea for how they cut the teeth on the new Advantek axles now.
Also when comparing anecdotes on JK vs JL breakage, might be good to keep in mind that the spider gear cross pin in the JL factory lockers has a hole drilled through the center of it cause engineers lol. The M210 diff I picked up blew up that cross pin and took out everything else, which wouldn't be an issue with a an aftermarket locker.
There's pics in my thread that was linked in post #9 here. I've done a ****ty job updating it, but I'm working on laying out positions for a couple load bolts on my M210 diff, one above and below the pinion I think since there's a big rib in the casting right behind the pinion.
For those that have put hands on the JL m210 and m220 housings, what are your thoughts on the casting being significantly thinner in areas vs a classic D44? Obviously it has a lot more ribbing, so I'm hoping the engineers put the strength where they need it vs just making the whole thing big and thick. I'm a little concerned about welding a load bolt into a 1/4"? Thick casting and have the force from the ring gear causing cracks down the road. Or bashing the housing into a rock and blowing a hole in it.
I'm just going full send into the advantek axles, load bolts, carrier bearing cap girdle, custom diff cover, 35 spline inners and outers, 99-04 outers with currie aluminum knuckles. Fully polished turds lol
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
But the JK r&p is bigger than a TJ, no?
350TacoZilla
Well-known member
At this point with all the different info I would love to have the cash and round up a few versions of the axles just to weigh ****. For my D30 front Toyota rear project I'm starting to wonder about the JL super 30 with aluminum knuckles, I am remembering correctly that was an option right? Narrow it a bit to match the XJ D30 \1st gen taco 8.4" width like 60-60.5". That or I guess match it up with a wider Toyota rear like 1st gen tundra and then run a deep backspace wheel.
gobi_rubi
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No the traditional 44 has a 8.5" ring gear. Jk still has 8.5 in the front but 8.9" in the rear. They did still beef up the pinion shaft alot to decrease deflection. JLs shrunk the r/p slightly