Is there a JK/JL axle bible?

Tech Tim said:
It's only crazy if you spend the time to do it with JK parts. Step up and use JL/JT knuckles on out. The Cs are a lot burlier and will fit larger U-joints. Brakes are better too.

If you do go the JK route, make sure to brace the Cs, they are notorious for bending.
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Yes I had heard the jl/jt stuff was a lot bigger from brief research a while back when I was first thinking about this project. One of the first mods I did to my jk was knuckle braces, why I was on the fence about using them. Looks like ill be calling around some local jeep repair shops to see if I can pick up a bent housing on the cheap since they generally just scrap them.

Id be curious to weigh everything and see how much of a difference it would be jeep vs super duty.
 
I have nothing productive to add, other than subscribing for info and that I have a set of ~2012 JK Rubicon D44s sitting in my garage that trussed and rebuilt for my WJ. Can collect whatever is needed for measurements/pictures. My friend also has a set of stock JK non-rubicon axles I can go look at as well (other than he has them on marketplace)
 
gobi_rubi said:
Or get 30 spline dana 60 inners if you'd like to run the 1480 ujoints. Not sure if its necessary going bigger than 1350 with 30 spline but you might get better steering angle out of the 1480
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Do you lose steering angle going from 1410 to 1480 u-joints?

Per RockAuto - wheel unit bearing Hub pilot diameter list at either 4.325” or 110mm (~4.33”).

Do 1480 shafts go right in or need to be notched to fit?
 
When aluminum steering knuckles become a weak link?

I really would love to custom build a lightweight axle assembly to TJ width, or a tad wider, and the lighter knuckles will help accomplish this, if not a weak link.
 
Are all JT fronts M210? Is the only difference between rubicon and non rubicon the locker and width?
 
TrailTamer said:
When aluminum steering knuckles become a weak link?

I really would love to custom build a lightweight axle assembly to TJ width, or a tad wider, and the lighter knuckles will help accomplish this, if not a weak link.
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People run them with 37s,38s and even 40s. They don't seem to have a failure issue, except the ball joints. That said, you can feel the difference in driving feel when you go from the OE aluminum knuckle to a steel knuckle. At least I can, that is.

fl0w3n said:
Are all JT fronts M210? Is the only difference between rubicon and non rubicon the locker and width?
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Yes all JTs got the M210 (D44) front. The only difference is wide track vs narrow and whether it has a locker or not.
 
TrailTamer said:
Do you lose steering angle going from 1410 to 1480 u-joints?

Per RockAuto - wheel unit bearing Hub pilot diameter list at either 4.325” or 110mm (~4.33”).

Do 1480 shafts go right in or need to be notched to fit?
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Not sure if you would be limited or if you would be limited elsewhere. Im not sure where you could actually source the 1410 shafts though whereas the 1480 would be standard 60 stuff.

I believe the 1480s drop in since some of the aftermarket hybrid 60/44 axles say they are using them
 
Tech Tim said:
Revolution Gear makes 1410 shafts for the wide M210s:

Revolution Gear and Axle Discovery Series 1-Piece Chromoly Front Axle Kit

Revolution Gear Discovery Series 2018 Wrangler JL and JT 1-Piece Chromoly Front Axle Kit
www.northridge4x4.com www.northridge4x4.com
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Thats fine for building a stock JL/JT axle, but will they make custom ones for a custom width axle, or a 35 spline version (would probably still need custom length) for a custom 9" or 60 hybrid like the OP wants to do?

I agree that RCVs would solve those issues, but they are significantly more
 
I wonder if when ordering custom inners, you just have them machined for 1410 instead of 1480?

Also, JL rcv's are only ~$1500 retail, which is only $500 more than the kit linked above. Last I asked, they don't charge extra for custom inners.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I wonder if when ordering custom inners, you just have them machined for 1410 instead of 1480?

Also, JL rcv's are only ~$1500 retail, which is only $500 more than the kit linked above. Last I asked, they don't charge extra for custom inners.
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They had quoted me a couple hundred more for custom lengths, but that was a while ago.

Im not sure if the 1480 blanks can just be machined for 1410s but that sounds reasonable.

Im really curious what the spline count going into the RCV bells is on the JL version. On the JKs it was 30 spline so RCV told me there wasn't much point in going 32 or 35 splines with the JK version. Im assuming the JLs is bigger but idk. The JKs did have instances where the splines would strip on the shaft going into the bell
 
gobi_rubi said:
They had quoted me a couple hundred more for custom lengths, but that was a while ago.

Im not sure if the 1480 blanks can just be machined for 1410s but that sounds reasonable.

Im really curious what the spline count going into the RCV bells is on the JL version. On the JKs it was 30 spline so RCV told me there wasn't much point in going 32 or 35 splines with the JK version. Im assuming the JLs is bigger but idk. The JKs did have instances where the splines would strip on the shaft going into the bell
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I wish rcv would post a comparison Pic of all thier bells side by side. I want to say the bell on the JL is damn close to a pre 05 Dana 60.

JL'S are 32 sp inners stock, so I'd hope they're at least that big
 
gobi_rubi said:
Thats fine for building a stock JL/JT axle, but will they make custom ones for a custom width axle, or a 35 spline version (would probably still need custom length) for a custom 9" or 60 hybrid like the OP wants to do?

I agree that RCVs would solve those issues, but they are significantly more
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Unfortunately Revolution doesn't do custom lengths.

And Dutchman doesn't do 1410 or JL/JT outers.
 
Tech Tim said:
Unfortunately Revolution doesn't do custom lengths.

And Dutchman doesn't do 1410 or JL/JT outers.
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Thats the same issue with the 1350s. Its easy to find them in stock lengths but very few will do custom. I think its a demand issue. If more people showed interest in them more would step up and offer them
 
YotaAtieToo said:
1410 and 1480 are same overall diameter, but 1480 is bigger caps?

Just do rcv's and forget it :flipoff2:
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This is what I am seeing. Wonder why you would not just run 1480s? Do 1410s allow more angle when turning?

Neapco/Spicer make a 1410/1480 conversion joint. Wonder if someone would have a chromo version? Or some spacer bushing to put a 1410 joint in a 1480 shaft? If so, then you could possibly use D60 inners & 1410 outers?
 
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I guess another question would be what ujoint makes sense to pair with which axle spline count. Max steering angle will play a part since the ujoint is weaker at greater angles. Based on my research I couldn't really find any JK 1350 ujoint failures that weren't just basic wear. So does it make sense to pair the 1350 with 30 splines, 1410 with 32 and 1480 with 35 or would 1410 be enough for 35 splines especially since the outers are still 32?

1410s should have more angle, but that is meaningless if the rest of the setup cant even max out the 1480
 
ParadisePWoffrd said:
This is what I am seeing. Wonder why you would not just run 1480s? Do 1410s allow more angle when turning?
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Only reason I can see is if 1480 stubs aren't available.

Logically, 1410 should turn sharper than 1480. But we all know 1480 can do plenty of angle.

ParadisePWoffrd said:
Neapco/Spicer make a 1410/1480 conversion joint. Wonder if someone would have a chromo version? Or some spacer bushing to put a 1410 joint in a 1480 shaft? If so, then you could possibly use D60 inners & 1410 outers?
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Driveshaft and axle shaft joints aren't typically the same. At minimum, the caps are different for different clips.

Personally, I'd just pick one or the other and go with it, not mess around with anything wierd.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Driveshaft and axle shaft joints aren't typically the same. At minimum, the caps are different for different clips.

Personally, I'd just pick one or the other and go with it, not mess around with anything wierd.
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I agree, but for someone wanting to build a JL based axle, esp with 9" centers, then something might have to be weird.

Is Revolution the only ones building 1410 chromos for these axles?

Sounds like RCVs might be the only option here, but without knowing which bell, it may not be the strongest option.
 
ParadisePWoffrd said:
I agree, but for someone wanting to build a JL based axle, esp with 9" centers, then something might have to be weird.

Is Revolution the only ones building 1410 chromos for these axles?

Sounds like RCVs might be the only option here, but without knowing which bell, it may not be the strongest option.
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Not sure what you mean by "which bell" but I'm fairly sure they make the bells as big as they can. Until Branik or another high end shaft company makes JL axle shafts, rcv will be the strongest option.

This is thier description. Kinda sounds like the bell is the same as a non big bell Dana 60.

The RCV Jeep JL CV for Dana 44 is 18% larger than our previous Dana 44 design and uses our same Dana 60 architecture. Tests prove our axles to be twice as strong as OEM. Even with big tires and big power there are no worries. RCV Performance Ultimate CV Axles are low maintenance and operate with a smoothness you can feel - whether off-road or on the street. All backed with a Lifetime Warranty against breakage up to a 43" tire.
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Good timing
 
There you go

Although, I'm not sure the 45 degrees is worth it on a stockish jeep? Can you really pull those angles with a stock box? And clear links and all that with 37-39s?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Yes, for this thread it makes sense.

I guess I was just surprised they offer it for stock JLs?
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Looks like it’s contacting at 45°. That’s not how 45° steering works. It would need to achieve 48° at contact to be able to use 45°. Just because the shafts would go that far doesn’t mean you need to use it.

There’s my JL stub shafts though! If the time comes I’ll ask about their inners.
 
JR4X said:
Looks like it’s contacting at 45°. That’s not how 45° steering works. It would need to achieve 48° at contact to be able to use 45°. Just because the shafts would go that far doesn’t mean you need to use it.

There’s my JL stub shafts though! If the time comes I’ll ask about their inners.
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Fair points.

32sp stubs? Should be pretty tough, I remember Adamwende having great luck with dodge 32sp outters in his 4ws buggies on 42 stickies.

I'd really be curious how these axles would hold up under a lighter rig. Would there realistically be a giant difference between these and dodge outters besides the wieght saving?

No idea on ball joint size or spacing, but I'd imagine BJE's would solve that.
 
I don’t see stubs which splined directly into unit wheel bearings to break as often, an uncommon occurrence, compared to inners.

Little to no twisting between yoke and spline, and any twisting will mean the back side of the stub will be sliding around on the back of the unit wheel bearing, which I don’t see to be a thing.

Either way, I think 32 spline stubs will serve many of us with smaller than “1-ton” very well.
 
TrailTamer said:
I don’t see stubs which splined directly into unit wheel bearings to break as often, an uncommon occurrence, compared to inners.

Little to no twisting between yoke and spline, and any twisting will mean the back side of the stub will be sliding around on the back of the unit wheel bearing, which I don’t see to be a thing.

Either way, I think 32 spline stubs will serve many of us with smaller than “1-ton” very well.
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That was his theory as well, being clamped in there tight somehow helped.
He was running 35sp inners, both chromo with fancy joints iirc, doing rock buggy stuff. So not even smaller than 1 ton stuff.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
That was his theory as well, being clamped in there tight somehow helped.
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At the very least the friction of the clamp is taking some torque so that the shaft itself doesn’t have to. I bet it would be even better if you had one of those diamond lock washers made to go between the shaft and where it sits on the hub.
 
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