Build 1960 F100 buildero-flipero, rolling chassis start

body swap that thing onto an OBS ford chassis. solves a lot of your problems in one shot.

WMS matches, desmog'd 5.0 will make plenty of power, 8.8 is decent enough rear end, c4 or e40d are decent enough options for a cruiser.

heck even an early f250 with a 460 would get you BB like Provience suggested
 
Provience said:
big block and C6 swap back on the block? gotta be lots of cheap motorhomes around to help you out :smokin:
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I've got no motor mounts in the F100. That was actually one of my top choices early on; rowdy rumbling V8 in an old truck:rockon: I'm still a kid at heart for deep rumbles of a V8.

But the more I look at the Crown Vic, it becomes more and more appealing based upon all the "goals" it checks off:
  • Fuel injected V8 - check, takes care of running issues
  • Matched auto - not a plus to me but it expands potential buyers
  • Front disc brakes - check
  • Rear 8.8 rear end - might be stronger than my current 9" but I lose the deeper gears
As an added bonus, I can spend $50 to get the whole front end installed. Then it is figure out the trans mount. In theory, a $1500 donor Crown gets this on the road super quick. I do a fire sale on hood, fenders, doors, and trunk for $50 then trash the rest.

mobil1syn said:
body swap that thing onto an OBS ford chassis. solves a lot of your problems in one shot.
<snip>
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I can't do a body swap for a few reasons with the biggest reason being in Calif, if I do this legally, it is registered as the OBS... Calif treats the chassis as the vehicle. The consequence of getting caught isn't worth it to me; impounded/crushed car. The other reason is I'll probably spend more time and money trying to do body mounts over the effort of blending in the Crown Vic crossmember.
 
I tracked down an example of what I find too low to me:
TooLow.jpg

This is not a look I like. If those tires are 28", raise it ~2" rear and 3" in front then put the tires on a 15-16" rim.

I found this claiming to be stock:
StockHeight.jpg

If I end up with something about 2" to 3" lower than that, I would consider the project a success from an external look.

I yanked the front bumper off and I'm hauling it to the dump. It is too damaged and just didn't look right. I think I want an original chrome bumper if I can find one cheap enough... new is $400 or so which blows up the budget a bit.

The front core support is hacked up badly so I'm going to swap in my spare after I clean it up. Somewhat related to the core support is I'm missing the hood latch. So another small part to find.

I ordered up a wiring harness kit. It is specifically for a 60s Chevy truck but it included a lot of nice bits like headlight pull and headlight foot switch. I'll cut off the Chevy specific plugs and go to town. It does give me a switch look to track down for the rest of the switches I'll need.

The "motor mounts" that I noted earlier are just hacked in scrap metal. They are being a bit of a pain in the ass to cut out with a grinder. But I'll get those knocked off in the next few days.

I have a set of poly bushings for the rear springs so I will pull the bed and clean the frame and springs before I replace the bushings. I'm hoping the spring center pins pop off nicely. Nothing in the rear frame jumped out at me while I was crawling around back there.

I'm still on the fence on putting a rear bumper. I'm also on the fence about putting a 2" receiver hitch for pulling a small trailer.
 
Not a lot to add, just where I’m at on my sporadic 59 project. I did the CV ifs for all the reasons you listed- except I wanted the low ride. The brackets aren’t that hard to make, but the kit is no doubt faster. Time vs money. I liked the outcast radius arm brackets, so I made my own.
None of this is rocket surgery. Ford made a lovely little package of this ifs. When you see it mocked up you really get an idea of the beauty of the swap.

Word on the net is stay away from the cop version- heavier coils(?), but that might work to your height preference.
 
Don't get too hung up on this 5" lowered is slammed thing, those 2wd trucks sat at 4wd height to begin with, so 5" lowered might be just ****in right



Also, you're gonna have to learn to weld and do some body work if you intend to get ahead on this, just embrace it, enjoy it

You're going to lose your **** if you start to try and pay people to do it
 
archie40 said:
Not a lot to add, just where I’m at on my sporadic 59 project. I did the CV ifs for all the reasons you listed- except I wanted the low ride. The brackets aren’t that hard to make, but the kit is no doubt faster. Time vs money. I liked the outcast radius arm brackets, so I made my own.
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The radius arm brackets is where I'm looking at for the kit I've mentioned. I am partial to using stock parts. The kit I'm looking at requires cutting up the stock radius arm bushing assembly to rotate the insert so the slot is parallel to the assembly face. I don't know if this because the bushing isn't something that can be pressed out or just lazy. Once I have the donor in hand, I will eyeball it. I may fab up custom radius brackets that put the assembly in the stock configuration.

archie40 said:
None of this is rocket surgery. Ford made a lovely little package of this ifs. When you see it mocked up you really get an idea of the beauty of the swap.
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With all it solves for a cheap as it solves it depending upon donor, I am really liking it as a primary option. If I account for the $800 just to convert the stock i-beam to disc, going Crown makes a hell of a lot of sense.
archie40 said:
Word on the net is stay away from the cop version- heavier coils(?), but that might work to your height preference.
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I thought I saw mention about the cop version having "issues". Heavier coils isn't a complete turn off since I can swap more kidney friendly coils in ultra cheap. My Crown Vic shopping will be price over looking or avoiding a version.
 
Projectjunkie said:
Don't get too hung up on this 5" lowered is slammed thing, those 2wd trucks sat at 4wd height to begin with, so 5" lowered might be just ****in right
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I won't say I'm completely hung up on it... but I really don't want tires buried in the wheel wells. Putting the crossmember in is the only reason I'm looking at how to get it in there.

Projectjunkie said:
Also, you're gonna have to learn to weld and do some body work if you intend to get ahead on this, just embrace it, enjoy it

You're going to lose your **** if you start to try and pay people to do it
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I know exactly how bad paying someone else can be... my FJ55 has a **** ton of work done for me. I got a reasonable discount and it was a big chunk of change. But, I got beyond OCD level work on most of it AND reasonable completion time:goofball:

I can weld reasonably well... just some days **** goes side ways :emb: I don't drop dimes but I usually don't do bird****.:goofball: My welder of choice is a 20ish year old Miller Passport(basically low duty cycle tiny 180amp 110v/220v welder that weighs all of 45lbs:eek:)

Beyond having somebody drop dimes for me, the other reason for me to farm it out was not having power at my carport. In order for me to get it to my basement, it is 500' of hilly ****ing around. With a bunch of rolling(100'), I may have that issue solved. Still a light pain in the ass that means I can't do heavy fab in the carport.

Bodywork to me is like drywall... I just don't have the "close enough" attitude for it. I'm just to OCD on perfection for me to **** with it. I'm dealing with body work on another project that has me a bit frustrated/stalled.:frown: For the front pass fender, I am debating pulling it and having a "pro" beat on it a bit... or depending on price, I may just buy a new to me fender and primer the **** out of it.

At times my body work feels like this(pass rear of bed on this project):
passbed1_sml-jpg.jpg

My problem with thin is there is only so much metal I can grind on before I need a new piece:homer:
 
Lil'John said:
The radius arm brackets is where I'm looking at for the kit I've mentioned. I am partial to using stock parts. The kit I'm looking at requires cutting up the stock radius arm bushing assembly to rotate the insert so the slot is parallel to the assembly face. I don't know if this because the bushing isn't something that can be pressed out or just lazy. Once I have the donor in hand, I will eyeball it. I may fab up custom radius brackets that put the assembly in the stock configuration.
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IMG_9054.jpeg I don’t remember the bushing orientation, but like you I trend toward the factory spec until I find a better solution.
Lil'John said:
With all it solves for a cheap as it solves it depending upon donor, I am really liking it as a primary option. If I account for the $800 just to convert the stock i-beam to disc, going Crown makes a hell of a lot of sense.
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Here’s where I ended up
IMG_1812.jpeg

Lil'John said:
I thought I saw mention about the cop version having "issues". Heavier coils isn't a complete turn off since I can swap more kidney friendly coils in ultra cheap. My Crown Vic shopping will be price over looking or avoiding a version.
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Don’t take my word for it- it’s been many a moon since I read it. I believe the other reason was that the cop versions were generally ridden hard and put away wet.
 
archie40 said:
Here’s where I ended up
IMG_1812.jpeg
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What did you do in the rear? How much clearance are you expecting under the door jam?

What size rim? And what sized tires?

That picture gives me some idea on where I can end up.

archie40 said:
Don’t take my word for it- it’s been many a moon since I read it. I believe the other reason was that the cop versions were generally ridden hard and put away wet.
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You are right on the stiffer springs. The sway bar(s) are also stiffer. Aside from the abuse, I didn't see anything that would prevent use. The abuse is somewhat limited because the cars are retired relatively quick though ;)
 
I tracked down a stock lower control arm bushing to show what most kits do:
StockBushing.jpg

The bracket that installs on the frame is flat to the frame so the bushing above needs that oval slot to also be flat relative to the frame. So people cut the bushing shell free of the flat bottom bracket and rotates it flat.

I am thinking of creating a bracket that is rotated so I can just bolt the above straight to it.

I spent a bit of time grinding on the ugly motor mounts:
UglyMotor_sml.jpg

To go with those janky motor mounts, the core support is hacked up in similar fashion:
BadCoreSupport_sml.jpg

I might be able to clean up the torch cuts but I think it isn't worth the effort since I have a good condition one sitting to the side:
NewCoreSupport_sml.jpg

Going with the clean support allows me to buy and bolt in an aluminum radiator for this rig rather than waste time cleaning up the installed on and then figure out radiator mounts. This continues the "clean" install theme.
 
I've got pictures of two more concern areas.

I've got the cool in the cab gas tank :eek: It looks like it is in good shape:
GasTank_sml.jpg

Should I give a damn about it? The cheap bastard in me says take it to a radiator shop to get it cleaned, add a return fuel line bung, and coated.

The steering wheel feels like it is just a step above chain link chrome:
SteerWheel_sml.jpg

The steering wheel looks like **** and will get replaced but let us talk about the steering column:
SteerColumn_sml.jpg

In order to do a PS conversion, the bottom of the column would have to be bushing'd. It also feels a bit low from the dash. Is there a reasonable cost replacement that looks clean and "old"?
 
also stab the drivetrain in there and the do what this guy did to get the height you want

Aftermarket4x4

Thread 'Tracker Sidekick Chop Shop Frame Chop .. Lift'

Track/Kick Chop Shop Frame Drop

To start off with I’d like to say thanks to Mike Hagan for coming up with and popularizing it many years ago and was one of the several known “Hagan mods” so thanks for your contribution to improving Suzuki/Geo’s over the years. I was unable to find a write up anywhere on this frame chop lift so here we go.

So I have two reasons for this project which are obviously get more lift and tire clearance and the other is make a little more room for the XL-7 2.7 liter V6 swap so it won’t need a 1” body lift. A small body lift is not required, but it certainly...
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Lil'John said:
Does that tank fit between rails and back cross members?
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To answer my own question, just a little more needed :homer: 29" between frame rails and 15" between existing crossmembers. 6" max height before it goes below frame rails.

mobil1syn I'll check that thread. I'm still scratching my head on the filler neck... I don't have a big tail light to flip down. I've got a tiny 4" round tail light.
 
Lil'John said:
To answer my own question, just a little more needed :homer: 29" between frame rails and 15" between existing crossmembers. 6" max height before it goes below frame rails.

mobil1syn I'll check that thread. I'm still scratching my head on the filler neck... I don't have a big tail light to flip down. I've got a tiny 4" round tail light.
Click to expand...

use the round light, just got to get creative.

you can run the filler all the way back to the stock location
 
Lil'John said:
What did you do in the rear? How much clearance are you expecting under the door jam?
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I’m using a Mustang s550 irs in the back. I looked at the same as you are with cv stuff. I got a complete dropout rear suspension in a nice neat package. I basically bought a frame and ***le that came with a rusty bed/cab and zero drivetrain.
The truck is far from finished. In that picture the “squat” is due to the rear suspension isn’t finished. It’s sitting on the bumpstops. I wish I could give you a measurement, but I’ve got it living on jack stands at the moment. So I guess I’m saying, the front is stock height cv springs- bottom of frame sitting on the cv xmember. Rear will match that height. Clearance- just enough to have a comfortable ride. I debated on bagging it, still might.
Lil'John said:
What size rim? And what sized tires?

That picture gives me some idea on where I can end up.
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I’m thinking those are 17” rims- this project is dragging on and on. Tires I’m not sure- some sort of low profile “sport”. They are just cheap rollers, after I get it running I may want more sidewall.


As to the gas tank- I’ve got two up for grabs. Cabs are questionable, but the tanks are mint. No takers yet.
 
I just wrapped up the project and got to my $12k sale point with one simple purchase(hood emblem):
ProjectDoneHoodEmblem_sml.jpg

Actually, opportunity buy on Ebay for solid emblem that needs a little paint.

Project is getting some forward progress as opportunity buys pop up. I may have found my drivetrain donors that I will be taking a look at Sunday. It won't be a one stop shop though: I found a 150k mile Crown Vic with no front suspension and then a front suspension already pulled. Depending upon how much I **** around on the price for either, I will be $700 to $800 on drivetrain donor budget :rockon:

I found a killer wiring harness for under $150:eek:
HarnessAndInstr_sml.jpg

Four pages double sided color instructions and full coper core. 22 circuit kit for 60-86 GM pickup so mild amount of adjustment expected. It also came with nice looking headlight switch and foot pedal highlight:
HeadlightSwitch_sml.jpg

Next step related to electrical is to find matching switches for those knobs.

To go with this since it was cheap, I'm looking at new steering column. How do I measure length of steering column needed?:confused:

Over the next couple of days, I'm yanking the bed, cleaning the frame rails, and replacing rear spring bushings(Energy Suspension poly) I got some highly recommended rust sealer to handle the frame:
FrameClean_sml.jpg

I'm debating whether I want to do a rear chrome bumper or go no bumper at all. The bed has holes for the license plate so it is tempting. I am planning to cut the rear most bracket out and pushing it to the very end of the frame rails so I can put a larger gas tank in the back.
 
Significant update. The 140ish Vic fell through. The separate suspension was "sold out from under me" which made the no front end Vic not worth the hassle. Obviously, first with cash in hand wins and I'm not overly upset on it. I ended up getting a 2005 Vic with 247k for the same price as the no front end Vic AND I am basically "renting" the chassis :eek: Basically I get all the good stuff while not having to worry about how to dispose of a carcass:grinpimp:
CrownVicDonor_sml.jpg


I forget what I was searching for yesterday but found a 1960 F100 frame for sale so I opened it up and they mentioned having Crown Vic parts handy. I reached out and he had the above. As it turns out, he is a "hot rod" shop that does mid 60 F100 with Crown Vic swaps. He had two in progress in his shop and a 50s F100 also in progress. The engine bay on his projects looked like a natural fit with the 4.6L in it.

Obviously, it is a police interceptor version which means the "nicer" engine; the number I saw mentioned was ~250hp backed by ~300ft-lbs. That should make for a nice cruising truck. I'm still trying to figure out what else that means. I saw thicker swaybars which I'm all for. I saw some specialized shocks which I'm not sure what that really means. It isn't clear whether I've got the 3.27 or 3.55 gears. I'd rather have the 3.55 gears.

I'm going to drive it around the neighborhood tomorrow mid day... it is missing the muffler so it is a little on the loud side:shaking:

The other "bad" news is because I'll be hauling a carcass back to the guy, I need my trailer back to snuff. I need new tires(on order) and then remove another project off of it in my carport. The reason this is somewhat critical is the other project has to be in the very back of the carport.

Basically, this project is going to break down to the following steps:
  • Add gate so I can pull the trailer and project through the yard rather than **** around on trying to turn around in tight quarters then play on the street.
  • Replaced tires on trailer
  • Get project situated better on trailer(no front axle on project)
  • Get project into carport
  • Pull Vic in and remove engine/trans
  • Get Vic onto my trailer
  • Pull front suspension and cross member out
  • Pull rear axle out and cut link brackets off it

Somewhere in the middle of that, I'll be cutting in the Crown Vic swap brackets onto the truck frame. I'm hoping that the weather cooperates long enough for me to get the trailer into the carport.
 
Hey glad you got a donor. If the link stuff isn't in the way of the leaf spring pads you add I wouldn't bother cutting it all off, next owner might want to link the truck.
See if yu can take the ac setup directly out of CV in as few pieces as possible and put it in the truck. Much easier to get decent money for a truck with working AC. Hell I would be tempted to see how the steering column looks under the plastic and see if you can swap it in wile making it look a bit older. Gauge cluster, wiring harness and all lol
 
350TacoZilla said:
Hey glad you got a donor. If the link stuff isn't in the way of the leaf spring pads you add I wouldn't bother cutting it all off, next owner might want to link the truck.
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As a lazy fabricator, that is highly tempting :emb: :homer: But I think that kills the "clean" look and/or well fabbed. I may reuse a bracket or two for a traction bar.

350TacoZilla said:
See if yu can take the ac setup directly out of CV in as few pieces as possible and put it in the truck. Much easier to get decent money for a truck with working AC.
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With as much as I saved on the ugly Vic, I might look at a "cheap" aftermarket AC setup. I've ****ed around with trying to retrofit AC from one car to another(FJ60 to FJ55)... it wasn't going to come out clean:shaking: I am looking at keeping as much of the stock AC stuff out of the engine bay though. From first glance, it looks like the Vic condenser is going to be WAY too wide.

350TacoZilla said:
Hell I would be tempted to see how the steering column looks under the plastic and see if you can swap it in wile making it look a bit older. Gauge cluster, wiring harness and all lol
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Zero chance of that. I won't be doing Flaming River or ididit columns but I'll be eyeing some of the cheaper options out there.

I will be a cheap bastard and probably pull brake lines to reuse if they look "clean":emb:
 
Got ya, I'm odd in I don't like when people swap like the whole dash over and make the truck look modern but I don't mind new gauges and such as long as they are a good style and fit the dash well. Same way I like modern drivetrain but hate seeing like touch screens and such in an old truck/car
 
350TacoZilla said:
Got ya, I'm odd in I don't like when people swap like the whole dash over and make the truck look modern but I don't mind new gauges and such as long as they are a good style and fit the dash well. Same way I like modern drivetrain but hate seeing like touch screens and such in an old truck/car
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What you describe is near my top goal of this build up. I want a casual inspection to say "wow, what a clean old looking car" while popping the hood is where it goes sideways :grinpimp:

One of my favorite set of gauges were put in my first FJ55(71):
GaugesMount2.JPG

The only thing I don't like with the above gauges is the LCD odometer. But it doesn't hurt me that bad.

I am trying like hell to avoid any digital gauges... it just doesn't look classic. I've got the same issue with pull knobs and such... I want the interior to be "minimalistic" and simple. I found this version that just doesn't quite stick to me:
DashB2.jpg

This one kind of sticks to me:
DashAfterGauges.jpg

I would "have" to swap the RPM gauge to the far left in place of the vacuum gauge and keep the star.

The rims are one of the things that is "keeping me up at night" on this build. I like simple and plain rims. 90% of aftermarket rims are ugly as **** to me and it seems like stock rims a 60/40. Because of the extreme offset I'll require due to the Vic WMS, I'm struggling for a good clean look.
 
350TacoZilla said:
Crown vic wheels with 71 hubcaps. I think it looks ok but that's just my opinion lol
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Holy crap... I LOVE that look. *insert drooling smileee * I'll have to see what my Crown has for wheels but they were steel and vaguely look the same. Do those just "pound" on? Will other years work?

Interesting update on parts collecting. My ebay radiator arrived and fit my core support except for bolt holes so minor issue:
NewRadiator_sml.jpg

I'm debating on adding a secondary trans cooler to use in addition to the radiator one. The cheap bastard in my says no because I'm not racing the truck. But I'm honest enough to know I'll push it hard because V8 needs to go vroom:homer::shaking:

I got my steering column from a local "shop":
SteerColumn_sml.jpg

It is shiny but it is Summit. Reviews seemed mix but I got it at a discount so I'm not upset. It is a column shift tilt column so it solves issue of showing what gear it is in. The shifter indicator will look like:
SteerColumnShift.jpg


The irony on this purchase is it was destined for a 1960 F100 that the shop just wrapped up doing a full Crown Vic chassis swap on; they kept Crown floorboards and firewall :eek: The owner decided another route for steering so the shop was left with getting rid of the column. The bad is I'm on the hook for mounts but it looks like it will go nice. I now need to figure out how steering wheels work on it and pick a simple but classic looking wheel.:confused:

While I don't have pictures, I also got the frame brackets to mount the Crown Vic engine/suspension subframe. They look like this style:
RawBrackets.jpg

I'm going to adjust/replace the lower brackets so I can leave the Crown Vic lower control arm bushing stock but for ~$40, they will save me a ton of time/money to get to rolling/fire up. While I could cut/weld the stock control arm bushing to work with the brackets, I think spending a few hours to get the right angle on the brackets will make this swap much nicer.

I think I'm at the stage in the build that I have all the parts I need to get to drivable(minus steering wheel) with a long list of enhancements/fixing needed. If I push hard, I could have the above brackets installed with the subframe over a weekend then the next weekend have the drivetrain stabbed.

One issue I need to address is the stock hood hinges not supporting the hood.:eek: The hood is so heavy that I thought that the guy I bought the truck from had wired it shut. Imagine my surprise when I found he didn't:emb: I did move the spring on the bracket and it helped a bit but I wouldn't trust working around the truck without a stick propping the hood up. It is barely holding it up and I'm sure a mild bump would drop the hood. I went from "normal" to "tighten" as shown in this picture(not my hinge):
HoodHingeTight.jpg

The other end of the spring is a "large" hole that is about 3/4" or so. I'm curious if I need to shim that hole.
 
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