Gear pattern check, please

SolidKM

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Hi. Asking for a read on this pattern, please.

Dana 60, LP. 5.38, spicer gears, New.

I added .002 to pinion depth between photo pair 1 and 2.

Thank you in advance

-Mike
 

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RunningProblem said:
make the pinion deeper. Try another 0.005 deeper.
Click to expand...
Did you mean deeper in the housing, away from the ring gear or deeper towards the ring gear?

Iteration 3 here was .005 closer to the ring gear, thicker pinion depth shim. I believe it has to go the other way. Like take .008 -.010 out of pinion depth shims.

Thank you
 

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.010 removed from pinion depth. Like .0095 back lash. Looks pretty good to me. Will try and tighten BL just a touch.
 

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8-10 thou is where that set is gonna want BL, you’re still 4-5 thou deep on the pinion.

Is this a front or rear?
 
Byro said:
8-10 thou is where that set is gonna want BL, you’re still 4-5 thou deep on the pinion.

Is this a front or rear?
Click to expand...
Rear, LP, 5.38. New gears, Spicer brand. I can take more out of the pinion depth.
 
SolidKM said:
Rear, LP, 5.38. New gears, Spicer brand. I can take more out of the pinion depth.
Click to expand...

Keep the BL in the 8-10 range, it’s showing a good spread heel to toe, you still have a sharp little line near the root, 3-4 less on your pinion stack should put you on the money.

The “I run them deeper for off road” is the biggest myth. Deeper on the ring is shallow on the pinion. Set the pattern correctly, put as much carrier preload as you can and pinion bearing preload on the high end of spec. Deflection is what kills gear sets.
 
Byro said:
8-10 thou is where that set is gonna want BL, you’re still 4-5 thou deep on the pinion.

Is this a front or rear?
Click to expand...
Truly, on depth, is .005" really going to convert to a meaningful difference in practical application?

I'm genuinely asking, because I've done everything to get a perfect pattern stuffing it in and out more than I do with the missus. And I've also literally just chucked a carrier into a 10 bolt without measuring ****. Both seem to perform well enough (the 10 bolt definitely made some noise). I've leaned into "perfection is the enemy of production" when it comes to gear set up now.
 
DocRamsay said:
Truly, on depth, is .005" really going to convert to a meaningful difference in practical application?

I'm genuinely asking, because I've done everything to get a perfect pattern stuffing it in and out more than I do with the missus. And I've also literally just chucked a carrier into a 10 bolt without measuring ****. Both seem to perform well enough (the 10 bolt definitely made some noise). I've leaned into "perfection is the enemy of production" when it comes to gear set up now.
Click to expand...
5 thou matters 1 thou doesn't.
 
Byro said:
Keep the BL in the 8-10 range, it’s showing a good spread heel to toe, you still have a sharp little line near the root, 3-4 less on your pinion stack should put you on the money.

The “I run them deeper for off road” is the biggest myth. Deeper on the ring is shallow on the pinion. Set the pattern correctly, put as much carrier preload as you can and pinion bearing preload on the high end of spec. Deflection is what kills gear sets.
Click to expand...
I will do this tonight. Thank you for the guidance.
 
I don’t have a good measure on carrier preload.

What I know.
  • the ARB air collar needs significant side load to keep from rotating. Learned this the hard way.
  • I am using a spreader. Aware to not over spread it
  • I have the shim drivers, I cannot get the shims in with out using a pry bar to pry the carrier tightly onto the air collar side.
  • I cannot muscle the carrier out. I must use a bar to remove. That said, not high effort with the bar.

I will try and add a touch more side load on final assembly as possible.

Open to guidance on any of that. Thanks
 
When I do ARBs I try and not use all the little shims and go to a thicker one or two shim combo, I have a whole pegboard full of shims though so that may not be a luxury for you. Make sure where the shims slide into the case there are no burrs, you can smooth out the sharp edge, a little grease or gear oil makes them slide in easier as well.
 
DocRamsay said:
Truly, on depth, is .005" really going to convert to a meaningful difference in practical application?

I'm genuinely asking, because I've done everything to get a perfect pattern stuffing it in and out more than I do with the missus. And I've also literally just chucked a carrier into a 10 bolt without measuring ****. Both seem to perform well enough (the 10 bolt definitely made some noise). I've leaned into "perfection is the enemy of production" when it comes to gear set up now.
Click to expand...

I can do them usually in 3-4 stabs, 5 thou is a considerable change in pattern. I’ve stabbed gears together before like you’ve mentioned, yes it works. I think people get hung up that they are some magical thing, the better the pattern, the quieter and smoother they run. They will absolutely run not even in the ballpark being close to ideal, but theyll howl like cats in heat and not last.
 
If you're just trying to get a good pattern, 5 thou matters, 1 thou doesn't is a good rule of thumb.

Think of it like setting the temperature on a shower or something. You move the dail where you think you want it and then maybe you're good enough, maybe you bump the dial a tiny bit for fine adjustment.
 
Byro said:
Keep the BL in the 8-10 range, it’s showing a good spread heel to toe, you still have a sharp little line near the root, 3-4 less on your pinion stack should put you on the money.

The “I run them deeper for off road” is the biggest myth. Deeper on the ring is shallow on the pinion. Set the pattern correctly, put as much carrier preload as you can and pinion bearing preload on the high end of spec. Deflection is what kills gear sets.
Click to expand...
Here is .004 removed from pinion depth. And .0065 backlash

I think it looks better in person than the photos.
 

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Gentlemen, any insight on this pattern.

Thank you, again.

Mike
 
first time trying setup my self,

Dana 60 LP chevy front axle
yukon 5.38 r&p wit yukon competition locker
Car is used for racing
Terms are speaking to the front of the car.
first try
Left side shims0.0695
right side shims 0.061
Pinion shims 0.025
back lash 0.006
1.jpg

2.jpg


for my understanding i had to add shims on the pinion. I left the other shims the some
so second try
Left side shims0.0695
right side shims 0.061
Pinion shims 0.042
back lash 0.006
3.jpg

4.jpg



Thanks for the feedback
 
I’d run that all day. The coast (first pic in your second post, drive side in this instance) shows still just a touch shallow, maybe 0.002” if you wanted it absolutely perfect. Coast side (normally drive side) is pretty on the money.

I would make sure that you set pinion bearing preload to the high side of spec and get your carrier preload as tight as possible, absolutely use a spreader if you have access to one. Those two things will help the low pinion front survive, it will eat itself from being a LP front long before it eats itself from a bad pattern. Not being a ****, just stating the facts, LP fronts live a hard life.
 
Byro said:
I’d run that all day. The coast (first pic in your second post, drive side in this instance) shows still just a touch shallow, maybe 0.002” if you wanted it absolutely perfect. Coast side (normally drive side) is pretty on the money.

I would make sure that you set pinion bearing preload to the high side of spec and get your carrier preload as tight as possible, absolutely use a spreader if you have access to one. Those two things will help the low pinion front survive, it will eat itself from being a LP front long before it eats itself from a bad pattern. Not being a ****, just stating the facts, LP fronts live a hard life.
Click to expand...
Thanks
I have a spreader.
just fot not having mis interpretations. shallow is the pinion not deep enough so add shims ?
for the backlash... Now i have 0.006 and some where i read that maybe is on the tight side for racing ? 0.008-10 is better ?

the 2 carnages a had with my front axle was 2 times this. no chunks out of the pinion or ring but cracked teeth.
 

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Last edited:
Peter S said:
Thanks
I have a spreader.
just fot not having mis interpretations. shallow is the pinion not deep enough so add shims ?
for the backlash... Now i have 0.006 and some where i read that maybe is on the tight side for racing ? 0.008-10 is better ?

the 2 carnages a had with my front axle was 2 times this. no chunks out of the pinion or ring but cracked teeth.
Click to expand...
IS this thinking/understanding correct ? I would like to assemble the axle this weekend.

Thanks
 
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