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Last Call Guest on these Group Buy Deal Items from Baja Designs
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #122
Removable Cowl
Returning to the cowl, I decided to try a little something different, which is to make the cowl removable to access wiring and stuff behind the dash. The windshield will mount to bosses that tie in to the cage below the cowl side joint, so the cowl panel can lift off when the windshield is down.
The original cowl dash flange was pretty messed up from taking it apart from the dash, so I trimmed it while retaining the factory bend radius. The flange won’t be spot welded to the dash panel like the stock body. Instead, it will attach with button head screws to a fixed dash panel that will span the cowl and tie in to the the roll cage just ahead of the A pillars. I decided to make a new cowl dash flange with heavier material than stock. Without the flange the panel is pretty floppy, so I used a clamp to hold it at the factory width then traced the outline of the cowl opening on a piece of 14g cold roll:
The panel was left taller than needed as I'll trim the lower end later on, along with cutting it back to leave just a 3/4" or 1" flange. This provided some flexibility on the details of how it would fit up with the dash.
The outer face of the thicker 14g panel was aligned to the outer face of the thinner 18g cowl, so they line up flush on the outside, then they were tacked together:
I was originally thinking I'd use the original firewall attachment flange on the cowl and run screws through it to the firewall flange I built, but the cowl flange was pretty marginal width to fit screws, was pretty thin material, and also had lots of irregularities from the original rough spot welds. I decided to make a wider, heavier 14g flange and try to fit it to the original cowl.
The blank for this front cowl flange was cut about 2.5" wide, since bending it to conform to the angled cowl sides tips the ends relative to the top section, so the blank needed to be wider and then trimmed after forming. I rough formed the blank by clamping it to the firewall flange with a bunch of clamps:
The fit was detailed by hammer and dolly work till I achieved a tight fit.That took a while with my meager skills with a body hammer. Once the fit was good, then I drilled it, and mounted some 10-32 PEM nuts in the firewall flange using a Roper Whitney Jr to set them. Then mounted the cowl flange to the firewall flange using some button head screws.
The PEM nuts worked well on most of the holes but a couple didn't seat as solidly as I’d like - so I needed to figure out how to improve on them. I had used the standard grade stainless PEMs. Later on I found an “SP” version, available through Bossard, that is hardened for use on stainless steel panels. The hardened parts worked much better.
With the new cowl flange attached firmly to the firewall, I gradually cut back the original cowl flange to fit it to the new thicker, wider part. To support the cowl while fitting it to the firewall, I clamped two angle iron pieces to the frame rails, at the right height to support the rear of the cowl:
Originally I was going to try to butt fit the cowl flange transition curve to the new thicker flange to make a really smooth transition- but the side taper fit was a problem to get that to work- and getting it aligned evenly the full length was a headache. I thought about using those little rectangular body panel clamps or cleco's but the firewall was in the way for those to be used, and I needed to keep the new cowl flange attached to the firewall flange to keep the fit right between all three parts. I decided to make a lap joint instead, with the cowl sheetmetal overlapping the new flange. This was a lot easier, but still took a lot of time to trim and fit. I didn't want to trim off too much and make a big gap!
The lower corners were a little tricky because I wanted the lower side of the panel to be reasonably flush with the new flange at the corner- so it will mate well with the body panel that will sit below it. I got this worked out after some pondering. Here it is after fitting:
Once fit, it was tack welded, starting at the center and working outward alternating sides, and clamping next to each tack weld to assure a tight fit at every weld. Here it is all tacked:
I took a break from the cowl at this point as some other things needed to come together first to be able to finish it.
The front floor started to take shape next along with the transmission tunnel. The overdrive shifter was also set up as part of the tunnel work.
Returning to the cowl, I decided to try a little something different, which is to make the cowl removable to access wiring and stuff behind the dash. The windshield will mount to bosses that tie in to the cage below the cowl side joint, so the cowl panel can lift off when the windshield is down.
The original cowl dash flange was pretty messed up from taking it apart from the dash, so I trimmed it while retaining the factory bend radius. The flange won’t be spot welded to the dash panel like the stock body. Instead, it will attach with button head screws to a fixed dash panel that will span the cowl and tie in to the the roll cage just ahead of the A pillars. I decided to make a new cowl dash flange with heavier material than stock. Without the flange the panel is pretty floppy, so I used a clamp to hold it at the factory width then traced the outline of the cowl opening on a piece of 14g cold roll:
The panel was left taller than needed as I'll trim the lower end later on, along with cutting it back to leave just a 3/4" or 1" flange. This provided some flexibility on the details of how it would fit up with the dash.
The outer face of the thicker 14g panel was aligned to the outer face of the thinner 18g cowl, so they line up flush on the outside, then they were tacked together:
I was originally thinking I'd use the original firewall attachment flange on the cowl and run screws through it to the firewall flange I built, but the cowl flange was pretty marginal width to fit screws, was pretty thin material, and also had lots of irregularities from the original rough spot welds. I decided to make a wider, heavier 14g flange and try to fit it to the original cowl.
The blank for this front cowl flange was cut about 2.5" wide, since bending it to conform to the angled cowl sides tips the ends relative to the top section, so the blank needed to be wider and then trimmed after forming. I rough formed the blank by clamping it to the firewall flange with a bunch of clamps:
The fit was detailed by hammer and dolly work till I achieved a tight fit.That took a while with my meager skills with a body hammer. Once the fit was good, then I drilled it, and mounted some 10-32 PEM nuts in the firewall flange using a Roper Whitney Jr to set them. Then mounted the cowl flange to the firewall flange using some button head screws.
The PEM nuts worked well on most of the holes but a couple didn't seat as solidly as I’d like - so I needed to figure out how to improve on them. I had used the standard grade stainless PEMs. Later on I found an “SP” version, available through Bossard, that is hardened for use on stainless steel panels. The hardened parts worked much better.
With the new cowl flange attached firmly to the firewall, I gradually cut back the original cowl flange to fit it to the new thicker, wider part. To support the cowl while fitting it to the firewall, I clamped two angle iron pieces to the frame rails, at the right height to support the rear of the cowl:
Originally I was going to try to butt fit the cowl flange transition curve to the new thicker flange to make a really smooth transition- but the side taper fit was a problem to get that to work- and getting it aligned evenly the full length was a headache. I thought about using those little rectangular body panel clamps or cleco's but the firewall was in the way for those to be used, and I needed to keep the new cowl flange attached to the firewall flange to keep the fit right between all three parts. I decided to make a lap joint instead, with the cowl sheetmetal overlapping the new flange. This was a lot easier, but still took a lot of time to trim and fit. I didn't want to trim off too much and make a big gap!
The lower corners were a little tricky because I wanted the lower side of the panel to be reasonably flush with the new flange at the corner- so it will mate well with the body panel that will sit below it. I got this worked out after some pondering. Here it is after fitting:
Once fit, it was tack welded, starting at the center and working outward alternating sides, and clamping next to each tack weld to assure a tight fit at every weld. Here it is all tacked:
I took a break from the cowl at this point as some other things needed to come together first to be able to finish it.
The front floor started to take shape next along with the transmission tunnel. The overdrive shifter was also set up as part of the tunnel work.
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gt1guy
Apparently a racist
That's a great idea.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #125
Floor, tunnel & overdrive shifter
Moved on to body panel work on the front floors and tunnel. All will be 18g steel. The floor panels will attach to the frame rails, outriggers, and braces with rosette spot welds, but the body sides will attach with screws so they are more easily replaced. There's little need to remove or replace the floors, but the sides and rear corners are more like to need repair or replacement from trail damage.
On the tunnel, it will be detachable from the floor and expose the complete top side of the transmission and t-case when removed. I also decided to attempt radiused corners on the tunnel so it's relatively smooth. It's more work, but worth a try.
As I puzzled out the floor and tunnel layout, there were a couple of areas that I was concerned with:
Overdrive shift linkage: The one I had made previously was located at the back of the transmission to make it easier to reach, rather than the conventional Warn location ahead of the t-case shifters. Thinking through the tunnel layout though, I decided that I liked the conventional location better. The rear mounted one was a little too far back, and moving it up to the typical position would allow the tunnel to fit tighter over the t-case. This got changed before making the tunnel parts, and will be described in the next post. The first pic below is the old location shifter linkage, the second is the new location shifter linkage:
Clutch fork / gas pedal clearance: This issue had been a concern, and continued to be a struggle. The drivetrain is pushed up for a flat bottom, and I also lowered the firewall / floor bend line to gain more leg room length / pedal throw clearance behind the pedals. I'm happy with those decisions, but laying out the floor made it even more clear that the conventional clutch fork was going to be challenging to make work. This photo shows the issue well:
Moving the firewall to floor bend line down, and retaining the same floor angle in the footwell effectively moves the angled section of the floor forward. In the photo you can see the stock floor bend line position marked on the cardboard floor template for reference. This footwell change is going to be great for brake and clutch pedal clearance to the firewall/floor angle, but worsens the clutch fork clearance. The fork hit the flat floor without even being engaged - unless I made a big clearance shape in the floor or the tunnel in that area.
I initially tried exactly that on the first attempt at making the transmission tunnel. I wasn't happy with that tunnel for several reasons, but a key reason was that I didn't like the shape made to clear the clutch fork. It created an awkward foot position at the future gas pedal. Here's two photos of the first tunnel before I put it in the recycling pile. The first shows the gas pedal ramp feature added to provide clearance at the clutch fork. This is kind of like the stock floor shape, but the resulting leg and foot position felt too awkward. The second shot shows the passenger side.There were some aspects of this one that I liked, but with the foot position problem and some other issues, it just wasn't happening.
I finally decided to give up on the conventional clutch fork and go with an internal throw-out., and went with a Tilton set-up. It’s not installed yet, but I mocked up the external aspects and it should work fine with the final floor and tunnel clearances. With that decision, I made a new transmission tunnel that I like much better:
In the coming posts, I'll briefly review the first tunnel, then describe the build of the final tunnel in more detail.
Overdrive shifter build details are up next.
Moved on to body panel work on the front floors and tunnel. All will be 18g steel. The floor panels will attach to the frame rails, outriggers, and braces with rosette spot welds, but the body sides will attach with screws so they are more easily replaced. There's little need to remove or replace the floors, but the sides and rear corners are more like to need repair or replacement from trail damage.
On the tunnel, it will be detachable from the floor and expose the complete top side of the transmission and t-case when removed. I also decided to attempt radiused corners on the tunnel so it's relatively smooth. It's more work, but worth a try.
As I puzzled out the floor and tunnel layout, there were a couple of areas that I was concerned with:
- The initial overdrive shifter location
- The clutch fork/ gas pedal foot clearance issue
Overdrive shift linkage: The one I had made previously was located at the back of the transmission to make it easier to reach, rather than the conventional Warn location ahead of the t-case shifters. Thinking through the tunnel layout though, I decided that I liked the conventional location better. The rear mounted one was a little too far back, and moving it up to the typical position would allow the tunnel to fit tighter over the t-case. This got changed before making the tunnel parts, and will be described in the next post. The first pic below is the old location shifter linkage, the second is the new location shifter linkage:
Clutch fork / gas pedal clearance: This issue had been a concern, and continued to be a struggle. The drivetrain is pushed up for a flat bottom, and I also lowered the firewall / floor bend line to gain more leg room length / pedal throw clearance behind the pedals. I'm happy with those decisions, but laying out the floor made it even more clear that the conventional clutch fork was going to be challenging to make work. This photo shows the issue well:
Moving the firewall to floor bend line down, and retaining the same floor angle in the footwell effectively moves the angled section of the floor forward. In the photo you can see the stock floor bend line position marked on the cardboard floor template for reference. This footwell change is going to be great for brake and clutch pedal clearance to the firewall/floor angle, but worsens the clutch fork clearance. The fork hit the flat floor without even being engaged - unless I made a big clearance shape in the floor or the tunnel in that area.
I initially tried exactly that on the first attempt at making the transmission tunnel. I wasn't happy with that tunnel for several reasons, but a key reason was that I didn't like the shape made to clear the clutch fork. It created an awkward foot position at the future gas pedal. Here's two photos of the first tunnel before I put it in the recycling pile. The first shows the gas pedal ramp feature added to provide clearance at the clutch fork. This is kind of like the stock floor shape, but the resulting leg and foot position felt too awkward. The second shot shows the passenger side.There were some aspects of this one that I liked, but with the foot position problem and some other issues, it just wasn't happening.
I finally decided to give up on the conventional clutch fork and go with an internal throw-out., and went with a Tilton set-up. It’s not installed yet, but I mocked up the external aspects and it should work fine with the final floor and tunnel clearances. With that decision, I made a new transmission tunnel that I like much better:
In the coming posts, I'll briefly review the first tunnel, then describe the build of the final tunnel in more detail.
Overdrive shifter build details are up next.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #126
Overdrive shifter
Built the overdrive shifter, repositioning it before building the tunnel.
The one I previously made had a clevis piece I made for the linkage. I recycled it for the new one by turning the welds off. A D-18 transfer case shift lever was used on that one for the overdrive lever to visually tie in with the D18 shifters. This was also reused, but the lower section was revised to fit better in the new location.
This is the clevis I had made previously, getting the prior welds cut from the old linkage tubing so it could be rewelded to the new linkage tube:
The linkage tube piece has some bends in it to route it around the transfer case shifter bosses. I had a little forming tool that I made on my funky lathe. It has a half round bottom groove turned in a hunk of round bar. Here's a pic of the fancy forming set up, using the tool mounted in the shop press with some wood spacer/cushions. (The pic was taken when forming the prior version linkage tube - the same bend method was used on the new one).
The formed tube was welded to the clevis coupler:
An angled tab was made, the linkage tube was slotted to accept the tab, and tab was welded in. Here's the tab attachment at the overdrive (photo taken before the parking brake was removed.)
This is the shift lever mounting bracket. It's modeled after the Warn T-90 part I had, but fit to the T-18 bolt pattern. I turned the shaft piece with a stub on the back side that runs through the bracket tab and is welded in from the back. The shaft dimensions support use of the D-18 shift lever.
The D-18 lever I used had already been modified at the tip. For this new arrangement, a jog wasn't needed, so I cut the tip off and welded on a flat plate part that the clevis will attach to:
Here's the installed linkage:
I'm happier with how the new OD shifter position fits in the layout.
On to cutting some front floor panels, and starting the tunnel...
Built the overdrive shifter, repositioning it before building the tunnel.
The one I previously made had a clevis piece I made for the linkage. I recycled it for the new one by turning the welds off. A D-18 transfer case shift lever was used on that one for the overdrive lever to visually tie in with the D18 shifters. This was also reused, but the lower section was revised to fit better in the new location.
This is the clevis I had made previously, getting the prior welds cut from the old linkage tubing so it could be rewelded to the new linkage tube:
The linkage tube piece has some bends in it to route it around the transfer case shifter bosses. I had a little forming tool that I made on my funky lathe. It has a half round bottom groove turned in a hunk of round bar. Here's a pic of the fancy forming set up, using the tool mounted in the shop press with some wood spacer/cushions. (The pic was taken when forming the prior version linkage tube - the same bend method was used on the new one).
The formed tube was welded to the clevis coupler:
An angled tab was made, the linkage tube was slotted to accept the tab, and tab was welded in. Here's the tab attachment at the overdrive (photo taken before the parking brake was removed.)
This is the shift lever mounting bracket. It's modeled after the Warn T-90 part I had, but fit to the T-18 bolt pattern. I turned the shaft piece with a stub on the back side that runs through the bracket tab and is welded in from the back. The shaft dimensions support use of the D-18 shift lever.
The D-18 lever I used had already been modified at the tip. For this new arrangement, a jog wasn't needed, so I cut the tip off and welded on a flat plate part that the clevis will attach to:
Here's the installed linkage:
I'm happier with how the new OD shifter position fits in the layout.
On to cutting some front floor panels, and starting the tunnel...
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #127
Front floors & tunnel
Here’s one more shot of the new OD shifter. This shows that the linkage sits low along the top of the transfer case which enables a lower rear portion of the tunnel. The base of the shifter is also clustered with the other shifters, but has room for a separate boot. I wanted this in place before making the tunnel. Also shown are the cardboard floor patterns.
Making the front floors was next. Cut and fit the front floors from the patterns, followed by a little rolling of the inside edges.
These panels have worked well, but have since been modified in several areas to interface with other assemblies added later on in the build - such as the tunnel build, version 1 and 2 battery box / center section, seat mounts, etc.. I’ve patched some floor changes as they occurred, but there are enough changes accumulated that I’m planning to make new panels once all of the adjoining pieces are done.
While I have a bead roller, I decided to keep the front floors flat like the stock ones, except for rolling the inside edges of the floors inside of the tunnel attachment flange area to stiffen them up a bit. This did make the panel more rigid. Panel edges ending at the inside of the rails were also rolled to provide a smooth edge that follows the rail radius. Some panel rolled edges have an inside curve that was easier to manually roll over rather than using the bead roller, as shown in the pic:
I may still need an additional support or some bead rolling at the driver's side where it overhangs inside of the frame rail towards the transmission- it's pretty far inboard of the rail, and flexes a fair amount. After I finished the tunnel I found that attaching the tunnel to the floor helped this, but may still add some additional ribs or something. Still thinking on that.
The firewall had a little issue that was also addressed. When cutting the side panels of the firewall I didn’t anticipate that the inner edge of the panel needed to be wider - to extend inward below the floor bend point to follow the angled sides of the center recess section- which also needed to drop down further at that same area. As a result, there were gaps at the inside corners of the firewall footwell bend that needed to be filled. The tunnel could potentially cover these, but it was better to fill it in. I made little patch pieces to fix the gap.
These photos show the problem spot on the driver side, and the patch which is a 1/8" thick little wedge on the bottom, welded to a 14g piece formed to match the curved vertical section- shown ready to weld:
Welding it in with TIG was challenging - a vertical inside corner, hard to see and hard to reach with the filler rod. Got it done, though a little rough. Had to smooth it flush afterwards anyway, so the floor panel and tunnel panel will fit on top of it.
Here it is with the floor fitted on top of it:
(This little corner would get tweaked a little further during the final tunnel build, along with removing the formed firewall tunnel flange and replacing it with a welded flange piece).
Next up is the trans/xfer case tunnel. Planning it made my head spin...
Here’s one more shot of the new OD shifter. This shows that the linkage sits low along the top of the transfer case which enables a lower rear portion of the tunnel. The base of the shifter is also clustered with the other shifters, but has room for a separate boot. I wanted this in place before making the tunnel. Also shown are the cardboard floor patterns.
Making the front floors was next. Cut and fit the front floors from the patterns, followed by a little rolling of the inside edges.
These panels have worked well, but have since been modified in several areas to interface with other assemblies added later on in the build - such as the tunnel build, version 1 and 2 battery box / center section, seat mounts, etc.. I’ve patched some floor changes as they occurred, but there are enough changes accumulated that I’m planning to make new panels once all of the adjoining pieces are done.
While I have a bead roller, I decided to keep the front floors flat like the stock ones, except for rolling the inside edges of the floors inside of the tunnel attachment flange area to stiffen them up a bit. This did make the panel more rigid. Panel edges ending at the inside of the rails were also rolled to provide a smooth edge that follows the rail radius. Some panel rolled edges have an inside curve that was easier to manually roll over rather than using the bead roller, as shown in the pic:
I may still need an additional support or some bead rolling at the driver's side where it overhangs inside of the frame rail towards the transmission- it's pretty far inboard of the rail, and flexes a fair amount. After I finished the tunnel I found that attaching the tunnel to the floor helped this, but may still add some additional ribs or something. Still thinking on that.
The firewall had a little issue that was also addressed. When cutting the side panels of the firewall I didn’t anticipate that the inner edge of the panel needed to be wider - to extend inward below the floor bend point to follow the angled sides of the center recess section- which also needed to drop down further at that same area. As a result, there were gaps at the inside corners of the firewall footwell bend that needed to be filled. The tunnel could potentially cover these, but it was better to fill it in. I made little patch pieces to fix the gap.
These photos show the problem spot on the driver side, and the patch which is a 1/8" thick little wedge on the bottom, welded to a 14g piece formed to match the curved vertical section- shown ready to weld:
Welding it in with TIG was challenging - a vertical inside corner, hard to see and hard to reach with the filler rod. Got it done, though a little rough. Had to smooth it flush afterwards anyway, so the floor panel and tunnel panel will fit on top of it.
Here it is with the floor fitted on top of it:
(This little corner would get tweaked a little further during the final tunnel build, along with removing the formed firewall tunnel flange and replacing it with a welded flange piece).
Next up is the trans/xfer case tunnel. Planning it made my head spin...
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #128
Tunnel
The tunnel has two sections- one over the transmission and another over the transfer case. Having two sections makes it easier to handle when removing/attaching.
Tunnel Build 1:
As mentioned in a previous post, I made an initial transmission tunnel that I wasn’t happy with, so then made the better one. Here are photos of the first one for reference:
In working on this first tunnel, I continued to have problems with getting it to fit up well with the formed flange on the firewall, especially the little clearance bump I had added on the drivers side. Towards the end of that effort, I bit the bullet and cut off the formed firewall flange. In doing this, I also opened up the firewall opening a little more around the upper bell housing bolts for more access. Meiser on the old site provided great advice on that and many other things during the build. There's now easy access to all bell housing bolts when the tunnel is removed, with clearance to pull the bell housing straight back from the engine - the bell, transmission and t-case can be pulled with a cherry picker from above.
Replacing the formed flange, I now planned a separate flange piece welded to the firewall, under the leading edge of the tunnel. At the outer corners of the firewall opening, using a formed or welded flange on the tunnel made the tunnel too big around the gas pedal, so on this first tunnel I then went with flanges on the tunnel side facing the firewall at the corners. These corner flange sections were kind of clunky.
Tunnel build 2:
After finishing the tunnel above, I wasn't happy with several things:
Here’s the new version. I like it a lot better:
Here it is with the boots sitting in place. Jeep T-18 Transmission boot, early Willys PTO boot for Overdrive, Willys Wagon/Pick-up boot for T-case.
Now on to some details on how it went together.
Like the first tunnel attempt, I wanted to have rounded corners where I could. I don't like banging body parts on sharp corners, I think rounded corners look better, and it's also similar to the overall "flat with rounded corners" theme of the overall flat fender body design.
Here's the basic formed tunnel, with the overdrive shifter “box" sitting next to it.
The formed tunnel piece has a flange on the back to mate the rear tunnel section to. The flange was made with step die on a bead roller.
The radius bends of the tunnel panel are made with a cheap sheet metal brake with an added radius bend bar that I made for it. It’s a 1” diameter round steel bar with a tube backing to provide rigidity, and guide tubes to fit the locating studs in the base of the brake. Here are some photos of the brake set up on my "workstation" with the radius bar installed:
Digressing a bit, but later on I replaced the old bender with a much sturdier 4 ft. wide brake that I made. It has the same design concept but heavier construction. Here’s the new one on the workstation next to the old store bought brake on the floor.
Next post will get back to making tunnel parts and assembly...
The tunnel has two sections- one over the transmission and another over the transfer case. Having two sections makes it easier to handle when removing/attaching.
Tunnel Build 1:
As mentioned in a previous post, I made an initial transmission tunnel that I wasn’t happy with, so then made the better one. Here are photos of the first one for reference:
In working on this first tunnel, I continued to have problems with getting it to fit up well with the formed flange on the firewall, especially the little clearance bump I had added on the drivers side. Towards the end of that effort, I bit the bullet and cut off the formed firewall flange. In doing this, I also opened up the firewall opening a little more around the upper bell housing bolts for more access. Meiser on the old site provided great advice on that and many other things during the build. There's now easy access to all bell housing bolts when the tunnel is removed, with clearance to pull the bell housing straight back from the engine - the bell, transmission and t-case can be pulled with a cherry picker from above.
Replacing the formed flange, I now planned a separate flange piece welded to the firewall, under the leading edge of the tunnel. At the outer corners of the firewall opening, using a formed or welded flange on the tunnel made the tunnel too big around the gas pedal, so on this first tunnel I then went with flanges on the tunnel side facing the firewall at the corners. These corner flange sections were kind of clunky.
Tunnel build 2:
After finishing the tunnel above, I wasn't happy with several things:
- The driver's side slope (that mimics the factory floorboard slope under the fuel pedal) was not comfortable. It was intended to provide clearance for the clutch fork, and I originally thought it would also be comfortable to have the sloped section for foot support, based on the floor shape on a stock early CJ. But I mocked up a seat and found the slope area was just too awkward. The sloped section was too narrow due to avoiding crowding of the brake pedal area. The narrow shape resulted in my foot very easily sliding off the side of it.
- Adding insult to injury, the sloped section shape didn’t actually provide enough clearance for the full throw of the external clutch fork. This all cinched the decision to go with an internal clutch throw out to have more room at the gas pedal area. Mounting the transmission high for a flat bottom, and lowering the footwell floor bend point meant the fork had to go to be able to fit my foot. With the fork out of the way, I could make a better tunnel than this first one.
- The access door on the passenger side was a poor design, fit poorly, and looked funky.
- I’m trying to use stock Willys transmission , transfer case, and power take off (overdrive) boots to retain some retro visual cues (even though everything is modified…crazy!), and I think they will be available from the restoration market for a long time. On the first tunnel they were positioned a little high, which stretched the boots quite a bit from the throw of the lever. On the second tunnel effort, I want to position the OD and xfer shift boots lower if I could to reduce stress on the boots.
- The shape of the front flare made the hanging fuel pedal mounting on the firewall a little awkward.
- Drivers side pedal area slope removed to maximize space at fuel pedal.
- Main tunnel follows the t-case shape better.
- Shift boots mount a little lower, closer to the stick pivot points.
- Front bell housing flare changed to slope inward - making it narrower at the top- leaving more room for fuel pedal mounting on the firewall.
- No passenger side access door. I didn't feel I really needed it for regular fluid and lube changes. For major stuff I'll just remove the cover.
Here’s the new version. I like it a lot better:
Here it is with the boots sitting in place. Jeep T-18 Transmission boot, early Willys PTO boot for Overdrive, Willys Wagon/Pick-up boot for T-case.
Now on to some details on how it went together.
Like the first tunnel attempt, I wanted to have rounded corners where I could. I don't like banging body parts on sharp corners, I think rounded corners look better, and it's also similar to the overall "flat with rounded corners" theme of the overall flat fender body design.
Here's the basic formed tunnel, with the overdrive shifter “box" sitting next to it.
The formed tunnel piece has a flange on the back to mate the rear tunnel section to. The flange was made with step die on a bead roller.
The radius bends of the tunnel panel are made with a cheap sheet metal brake with an added radius bend bar that I made for it. It’s a 1” diameter round steel bar with a tube backing to provide rigidity, and guide tubes to fit the locating studs in the base of the brake. Here are some photos of the brake set up on my "workstation" with the radius bar installed:
Digressing a bit, but later on I replaced the old bender with a much sturdier 4 ft. wide brake that I made. It has the same design concept but heavier construction. Here’s the new one on the workstation next to the old store bought brake on the floor.
Next post will get back to making tunnel parts and assembly...
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Nice work on the brake. Radius bender bar is a fabulous addition.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #130
Thanks 1sinner! The radiused bends are fun to use. Planning the flat panel layout is a little more of a challenge compared to sharp bends, as you need to account for the distance around the bend. Less stress on the metal though and nicer to bump with appendages than sharp bends with pointy corners!
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CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #131
Tunnel Continued
Making the parts… Here’s how the overdrive shifter "box" was made:
I used a "T-Dolly" clamped to the bench to form the ends and shape the corner, then welded up the cuts at the corners. This avoided making a hammer form specific to the part.
The overdrive shifter “box” part has one formed radius corner and two side walls. This photo shows the way it was patterned and cut- one of the sides wraps to form the second side. It would have been easier to just make a pie cut at the corner and have the weld seam run down the corner, as was done on the transmission shifter box shown next. I think I did this one differently just to see how it the different corner forming would work.
A flat body dolly was held on top of the panel to hold the face of the panel flat over the T-dolly while using a slapper to round the sides and start the corner:
Then used a body hammer and the dolly to work the corner to shrink the material into itself, combined with some trimming of the corner cut as it progressed. Then tacked it together:
Used the T-Dolly and body hammer for some further shaping of the corner before finish welding. With the welds done, started on grinding/ finishing the welds before attaching to the tunnel. I decided to finish out the welds at the outside corners for a smoother look, but leave the inside corner welds as-is on the rest of the tunnel.
For the Transmission shift tower area, I made another box. The box allows clearance around the tower while keeping the rest of the tunnel lower overall.
For this shape, the T dolly was too long, so I made a hammer form out of MDF to shape the box:
Clamped the sides to the form for tacking:
After light tacking at the bottom (away from the MDF so it wouldn’t burn) the form was removed, and more tacks were made on each corner, with minor fit and shape tweaks as needed using the T dolly and body hammer, followed by finish welding. The T dolly and hammer use is shown below.
Welded up:
Then connected these bits to the main tunnel piece...
Making the parts… Here’s how the overdrive shifter "box" was made:
I used a "T-Dolly" clamped to the bench to form the ends and shape the corner, then welded up the cuts at the corners. This avoided making a hammer form specific to the part.
The overdrive shifter “box” part has one formed radius corner and two side walls. This photo shows the way it was patterned and cut- one of the sides wraps to form the second side. It would have been easier to just make a pie cut at the corner and have the weld seam run down the corner, as was done on the transmission shifter box shown next. I think I did this one differently just to see how it the different corner forming would work.
A flat body dolly was held on top of the panel to hold the face of the panel flat over the T-dolly while using a slapper to round the sides and start the corner:
Then used a body hammer and the dolly to work the corner to shrink the material into itself, combined with some trimming of the corner cut as it progressed. Then tacked it together:
Used the T-Dolly and body hammer for some further shaping of the corner before finish welding. With the welds done, started on grinding/ finishing the welds before attaching to the tunnel. I decided to finish out the welds at the outside corners for a smoother look, but leave the inside corner welds as-is on the rest of the tunnel.
For the Transmission shift tower area, I made another box. The box allows clearance around the tower while keeping the rest of the tunnel lower overall.
For this shape, the T dolly was too long, so I made a hammer form out of MDF to shape the box:
Clamped the sides to the form for tacking:
After light tacking at the bottom (away from the MDF so it wouldn’t burn) the form was removed, and more tacks were made on each corner, with minor fit and shape tweaks as needed using the T dolly and body hammer, followed by finish welding. The T dolly and hammer use is shown below.
Welded up:
Then connected these bits to the main tunnel piece...
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #132
Tunnel continued some more…
The next step was to integrate the overdrive shifter box into the main tunnel. Double checked the position, then the tunnel was cut to incorporate the shifter box section. To maintain the shape of the tunnel during cutting and fitting, I made a buck that fit the rear flange, and used the cut out piece under the front of the tunnel as a buck as well.
These photos show the overdrive shifter box fitted and tacked in the cut made to the main tunnel.
The forward tunnel-to-firewall flare section was made and fitted before mounting the transmission shifter box. This flare section was the hardest to fit. My meager brain struggled...lots of angles + radius bends + trying to butt fit it to the front edge of the main tunnel section for welding while also achieving a nice fit to the firewall. (As described in prior posts, the firewall will have a new flange welded in the center - fitting under the tunnel flare to attach the tunnel to).
To make the flare section, I first made a cardboard template. The radius bends were hard to create consistently in the cardboard, and what looked like a good fit in cardboard didn't fit well once made in metal. So I then used the first metal part to make a new template, cutting it in half so I could fit each side independently, then welded it back together with a filler strip needed to get the fit right:
I marked on this with a sharpie where more material was needed, then made a new paper template that added material where needed per the notes. Paper was used for this final pattern as I realized that the cardboard thickness was messing up the flat distances around the radius bends. Then a new steel panel was cut - with a little extra on the edges to allow fitment. This second part got closer, but no cigar. The third part I made worked out after doing a better job on the fine fitting. Here's the third one cut and starting fitting:
Here the flare section is fitted and welded, and the transmission shift tower is also welded in place:
Next up, the x-fer case shifter hole positioning was confirmed, then cut and finished off. The holes for the overdrive and transmission shifters are well supported by the box structures they are cut in, and I just made simple cut outs on those. The transfer case shifter hole is in a larger, less supported panel area of the tunnel, and I thought it would be worthwhile to form a small flange around the edge of the hole to stiffen the panel, similar to the flanges on the PTO and transfer case shifter areas of the original factory Willys floors. This area of the tunnel panel was also a little wavy near the overdrive and transmission "boxes" after welding them into the tunnel, and I figured forming a flange at the transfer case shifter hole would provide an opportunity to get it back closer to flat (as forming the flange might pull a little metal in towards the hole) as well as stiffening the panel to reduce waviness.
The hole was cut undersize, leaving 1/4" of material to form the flange. Then a simple hammer form was made for the bottom side. For the top, I had a boot mounting ring I made for the prior tunnel , so used it as an upper clamp, along with some other flat stock. The flange was then formed using the polished round end of a ball peen hammer, a little at a time, then I used the T-Dolly with light hits to planish the inside edge a bit smooth it out.
Bottom side hammer form:
Top side clamped (flange already formed):
Formed flange bottom side:
Here's the finished flanged shifter hole with 10-32 stainless PEM nuts installed for the boot mounting ring screws. I made a new boot ring as well. I couldn't access the PEM nuts with the Roper Whitney tool I usually set them with, so I ran allen head screws into them (facing upward into the holes), and then started pressing them into the holes by tightening a nut onto the screws (with a washer under it to protect the panel). This got them started straight, then I pressed them in the rest of the way with c-clamps and a protective plate on the top side. Forming the flange with the flat hammer form and flat top clamps in place helped flatten the panel where it had some slight warp near the weld seams on the adjacent boxes sections. The panel is much more stable with the hole flange as well. Taking the time to make the flanged opening paid off, rather than just cutting a hole.
The final step was to trim the tunnel mounting flanges to final width. Here's the finished tunnel in place. I was so glad to be done with this thing! Yikes! I like the second design a lot better than the first, and my fab work got better the second time around. I'm glad that I tossed the first version, and gave it another try to make the second one!
The next step was to integrate the overdrive shifter box into the main tunnel. Double checked the position, then the tunnel was cut to incorporate the shifter box section. To maintain the shape of the tunnel during cutting and fitting, I made a buck that fit the rear flange, and used the cut out piece under the front of the tunnel as a buck as well.
These photos show the overdrive shifter box fitted and tacked in the cut made to the main tunnel.
The forward tunnel-to-firewall flare section was made and fitted before mounting the transmission shifter box. This flare section was the hardest to fit. My meager brain struggled...lots of angles + radius bends + trying to butt fit it to the front edge of the main tunnel section for welding while also achieving a nice fit to the firewall. (As described in prior posts, the firewall will have a new flange welded in the center - fitting under the tunnel flare to attach the tunnel to).
To make the flare section, I first made a cardboard template. The radius bends were hard to create consistently in the cardboard, and what looked like a good fit in cardboard didn't fit well once made in metal. So I then used the first metal part to make a new template, cutting it in half so I could fit each side independently, then welded it back together with a filler strip needed to get the fit right:
I marked on this with a sharpie where more material was needed, then made a new paper template that added material where needed per the notes. Paper was used for this final pattern as I realized that the cardboard thickness was messing up the flat distances around the radius bends. Then a new steel panel was cut - with a little extra on the edges to allow fitment. This second part got closer, but no cigar. The third part I made worked out after doing a better job on the fine fitting. Here's the third one cut and starting fitting:
Here the flare section is fitted and welded, and the transmission shift tower is also welded in place:
Next up, the x-fer case shifter hole positioning was confirmed, then cut and finished off. The holes for the overdrive and transmission shifters are well supported by the box structures they are cut in, and I just made simple cut outs on those. The transfer case shifter hole is in a larger, less supported panel area of the tunnel, and I thought it would be worthwhile to form a small flange around the edge of the hole to stiffen the panel, similar to the flanges on the PTO and transfer case shifter areas of the original factory Willys floors. This area of the tunnel panel was also a little wavy near the overdrive and transmission "boxes" after welding them into the tunnel, and I figured forming a flange at the transfer case shifter hole would provide an opportunity to get it back closer to flat (as forming the flange might pull a little metal in towards the hole) as well as stiffening the panel to reduce waviness.
The hole was cut undersize, leaving 1/4" of material to form the flange. Then a simple hammer form was made for the bottom side. For the top, I had a boot mounting ring I made for the prior tunnel , so used it as an upper clamp, along with some other flat stock. The flange was then formed using the polished round end of a ball peen hammer, a little at a time, then I used the T-Dolly with light hits to planish the inside edge a bit smooth it out.
Bottom side hammer form:
Top side clamped (flange already formed):
Formed flange bottom side:
Here's the finished flanged shifter hole with 10-32 stainless PEM nuts installed for the boot mounting ring screws. I made a new boot ring as well. I couldn't access the PEM nuts with the Roper Whitney tool I usually set them with, so I ran allen head screws into them (facing upward into the holes), and then started pressing them into the holes by tightening a nut onto the screws (with a washer under it to protect the panel). This got them started straight, then I pressed them in the rest of the way with c-clamps and a protective plate on the top side. Forming the flange with the flat hammer form and flat top clamps in place helped flatten the panel where it had some slight warp near the weld seams on the adjacent boxes sections. The panel is much more stable with the hole flange as well. Taking the time to make the flanged opening paid off, rather than just cutting a hole.
The final step was to trim the tunnel mounting flanges to final width. Here's the finished tunnel in place. I was so glad to be done with this thing! Yikes! I like the second design a lot better than the first, and my fab work got better the second time around. I'm glad that I tossed the first version, and gave it another try to make the second one!
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #133
Tunnel wrap up:
The last part of this front tunnel was to make the new weld on flange for the firewall that the front edge of the tunnel will screw on to.
The new firewall flange was patterned in thin cardboard, fitting it to the front of the tunnel and including some extra material to trim when fitted to the firewall. The current firewall opening will need to be opened up a bit to fit the flange. Final fitting and welding will be easier with access from the engine bay and underside of the tunnel, so I’ll fit and weld it in place later on when the engine is back out. Here are a couple of pics. The first one is the flange blank and the second is the flange formed to closely fit the tunnel:
The profile of the new tunnel and flange at the firewall will provide easy access to the bell housing bolts, which facilitates removal of the bell, transmission, and t-case with the engine in place, using a hoist or cherry picker from above.
To wrap up this front tunnel topic, here's a couple more pics of how it turned out:
At this point, I was happy with the result, but really weary of tunnel work - so took a break before building the rear tunnel section.
I had left off the cowl work with the new front and rear flanges tacked, so returned to that to make the final welds. Here is a pic of the cowl after final welds, fastened to the firewall at the new firewall flange. What looks like a new dash panel in the photo will be cut to leave just a flange. The resulting flange will overlap the dash panel similar to the stock cowl flange, but will be attached to the dash panel with screws rather than spot welds. This will allow the whole cowl to be unfastened and lift off the dash and firewall leaving everything underneath accessible.
Cowl attached to the firewall:
The last part of this front tunnel was to make the new weld on flange for the firewall that the front edge of the tunnel will screw on to.
The new firewall flange was patterned in thin cardboard, fitting it to the front of the tunnel and including some extra material to trim when fitted to the firewall. The current firewall opening will need to be opened up a bit to fit the flange. Final fitting and welding will be easier with access from the engine bay and underside of the tunnel, so I’ll fit and weld it in place later on when the engine is back out. Here are a couple of pics. The first one is the flange blank and the second is the flange formed to closely fit the tunnel:
The profile of the new tunnel and flange at the firewall will provide easy access to the bell housing bolts, which facilitates removal of the bell, transmission, and t-case with the engine in place, using a hoist or cherry picker from above.
To wrap up this front tunnel topic, here's a couple more pics of how it turned out:
At this point, I was happy with the result, but really weary of tunnel work - so took a break before building the rear tunnel section.
I had left off the cowl work with the new front and rear flanges tacked, so returned to that to make the final welds. Here is a pic of the cowl after final welds, fastened to the firewall at the new firewall flange. What looks like a new dash panel in the photo will be cut to leave just a flange. The resulting flange will overlap the dash panel similar to the stock cowl flange, but will be attached to the dash panel with screws rather than spot welds. This will allow the whole cowl to be unfastened and lift off the dash and firewall leaving everything underneath accessible.
Cowl attached to the firewall:
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CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #134
Deep in the weeds…hood support
Took some time to take care of other little stuff around the cowl area. Please skip these next posts on the vital topic of the hood support if you’d like to preserve your sanity!
With the cowl in place, I thought I'd get the hood hinge and hood support together. The hood will be longer than stock and the lower edge will be raised along with raising the fenders. I had a salvaged hood hat channel support with a sad hinge available. It wasn't too rusty except the hinge so I thought the curved hat channel might be useable for making a new hood.
The hinges usually seep rust, and this one was very beat. For an improved replacement, I found a nice hinge from McMaster-Carr: Part Number 1582A381. It's 304 Stainless Steel and has the same internal rod size and hinge pitch as stock. It's oriented like a standard piano hinge, but the pin can be knocked out, one side flipped over, then reassembled for the one side up/one side down configuration of the original hinge. It's 4" wide overall, so can be cut to match the original widths on each side. It’s also blank so you can drill the mounting holes where you want them, in this case to match the stock cowl hood mounting holes.
Here's a couple of pics:
The first shows the hood hat channel and the new hinge, The second shows the hinge cut to length, flipped to match the stock Willys orientation, and marked to show the width trim to match stock:
The hood support was from a trashed hood that was included in a past rig purchase. It was a mess overall with badly dented sheet metal, torch cut holes, and poor hinge condition, but the hood support and Willys logos were good so I cut them out and saved them. The first rehab step was removing the hinge, hood sheet metal, several layers of paint, bondo, and general crust to get a good look at the condition of the support.
A grinder was used to remove the hinge and hood spot welds from the hinge and hood side of the joints, rather than using a spot weld cutter. I stop grinding before breaking through to preserve the underlying part. Once close, I slid an old putty knife or chisel into the joint and hit it in with a hammer to slice through the thin metal remaining around the spot weld. This leaves a little bit of the weld proud on the part you're trying to preserve- which can then be ground flush after the ground part is removed. On the thin hood sheet metal it could also be peeled back to get it out of the way for the next weld removal like opening a sardine can.
After cleaning it up, I was happy to find that the hood support is in really good shape, so I decided I'd use it for the new hood, rather than making one from scratch. The factory part has little stamped elevated pads for the hinge attachment spot welds. Interesting detail of Willys factory engineering...
Cut and drilled the stainless hinge from McMaster-Carr to emulate the factory hood hinge. The new hinge has thicker material on the rolled hinge wrap, which provides a welcome improvement in strength. Here’s the original and final new hinge together:
Tacked the hinge to the hood support for a fit check on the cowl to make sure the support was positioned OK on the cowl. I also wanted to check the overall fit as I had some concern whether the support would clear the removable cowl mounting screw/flange arrangement. The fit was good as far as positioning of the hinge. On the other hand, my hunch on a potential fit issue at the cowl attachment screws turned out to be right.
The stock hood support on a CJ3B is a 3A hood support plus extension pieces added at each end for the taller 3B hood. Where the 2A/3A support hat channel shape tapers at the ends, the 3B extension is a fairly tall and wide hat piece that is spot welded over the top of the 3A support. The tall/wide 3B hat channel extension pieces were just hitting the cowl mounting screws on both sides - see at the arrow below:
I already thought that the 3B hat extensions were kind of a funky solution from the factory, so might as well take them off. With them removed, then a new extension could be added that butt fit to the main support shape and further tapered it. That approach would provide the needed clearance, look cleaner, and not trap water. With that plan made, the hinges were finish welded and the new support ends were figured out.
Since about half of the factory hinge attachment spot welds had failed on the old hinge, rather than simulating the original spot welds with small rosette welds, I decided to do stitch welds for greater strength, made at both edges of the hinge plate to the support:
Will finish up in the next post
Took some time to take care of other little stuff around the cowl area. Please skip these next posts on the vital topic of the hood support if you’d like to preserve your sanity!
With the cowl in place, I thought I'd get the hood hinge and hood support together. The hood will be longer than stock and the lower edge will be raised along with raising the fenders. I had a salvaged hood hat channel support with a sad hinge available. It wasn't too rusty except the hinge so I thought the curved hat channel might be useable for making a new hood.
The hinges usually seep rust, and this one was very beat. For an improved replacement, I found a nice hinge from McMaster-Carr: Part Number 1582A381. It's 304 Stainless Steel and has the same internal rod size and hinge pitch as stock. It's oriented like a standard piano hinge, but the pin can be knocked out, one side flipped over, then reassembled for the one side up/one side down configuration of the original hinge. It's 4" wide overall, so can be cut to match the original widths on each side. It’s also blank so you can drill the mounting holes where you want them, in this case to match the stock cowl hood mounting holes.
Here's a couple of pics:
The first shows the hood hat channel and the new hinge, The second shows the hinge cut to length, flipped to match the stock Willys orientation, and marked to show the width trim to match stock:
The hood support was from a trashed hood that was included in a past rig purchase. It was a mess overall with badly dented sheet metal, torch cut holes, and poor hinge condition, but the hood support and Willys logos were good so I cut them out and saved them. The first rehab step was removing the hinge, hood sheet metal, several layers of paint, bondo, and general crust to get a good look at the condition of the support.
A grinder was used to remove the hinge and hood spot welds from the hinge and hood side of the joints, rather than using a spot weld cutter. I stop grinding before breaking through to preserve the underlying part. Once close, I slid an old putty knife or chisel into the joint and hit it in with a hammer to slice through the thin metal remaining around the spot weld. This leaves a little bit of the weld proud on the part you're trying to preserve- which can then be ground flush after the ground part is removed. On the thin hood sheet metal it could also be peeled back to get it out of the way for the next weld removal like opening a sardine can.
After cleaning it up, I was happy to find that the hood support is in really good shape, so I decided I'd use it for the new hood, rather than making one from scratch. The factory part has little stamped elevated pads for the hinge attachment spot welds. Interesting detail of Willys factory engineering...
Cut and drilled the stainless hinge from McMaster-Carr to emulate the factory hood hinge. The new hinge has thicker material on the rolled hinge wrap, which provides a welcome improvement in strength. Here’s the original and final new hinge together:
Tacked the hinge to the hood support for a fit check on the cowl to make sure the support was positioned OK on the cowl. I also wanted to check the overall fit as I had some concern whether the support would clear the removable cowl mounting screw/flange arrangement. The fit was good as far as positioning of the hinge. On the other hand, my hunch on a potential fit issue at the cowl attachment screws turned out to be right.
The stock hood support on a CJ3B is a 3A hood support plus extension pieces added at each end for the taller 3B hood. Where the 2A/3A support hat channel shape tapers at the ends, the 3B extension is a fairly tall and wide hat piece that is spot welded over the top of the 3A support. The tall/wide 3B hat channel extension pieces were just hitting the cowl mounting screws on both sides - see at the arrow below:
I already thought that the 3B hat extensions were kind of a funky solution from the factory, so might as well take them off. With them removed, then a new extension could be added that butt fit to the main support shape and further tapered it. That approach would provide the needed clearance, look cleaner, and not trap water. With that plan made, the hinges were finish welded and the new support ends were figured out.
Since about half of the factory hinge attachment spot welds had failed on the old hinge, rather than simulating the original spot welds with small rosette welds, I decided to do stitch welds for greater strength, made at both edges of the hinge plate to the support:
Will finish up in the next post
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #135
Finishing the hood support…
The hood support hat channel section is just under an inch wide, and tallest in the center then tapers at the ends as it completes the curve at the side of the hood (underneath the overlapping, taller/wider spot welded factory 3B extenders that are welded on top of it). I decided to cut the main support at a point where it starts to taper in height, and where the hood curve has flattened into the flat hood sides. The part I planned to make would match the channel shape to butt weld at the cut original support ends, and then continue the taper as it approached the bottom of the hood. At the cut line, the hat channel height was 1/4”. The new extension piece will taper to a hat height of 1/8"- so it would nicely clear the sides of the cowl screws and still have a reasonable opening at the bottom for water drainage. I made it the same length as the original, but plan to shorten it when the highlined fender height is set.
After puzzling on how to form a hat shaped piece with the right cross section shape for the extensions, I came up with a little fixture to form the parts with a press.
A 1" square tube almost fit in the support hat section, and the sides of the formed main support are a bit more sloped than square. So I filed the side corners down on a piece of 1" square tube to get it to fit into the channel shape. Two angle steel pieces were then welded to the sides of the square stock to set the outer flange to center channel height. They are set for 1/4" height on one end, tapering to 1/8" height on the other:
I then used SWAG's adjustable press base for a channel to press the part into using this fixture. To keep the face of the formed part flat against the square stock (for the top of the "hat"), I used some different thicknesses of flat stock as shims in the bottom of the channel - swapping them out as the part progressed into the channel. (otherwise the top of the hat section would form with a rounded crown - which I figured out on the first forming attempt...)
Here's the forming fixture, the new formed extension part, and the factory 3B extension part, next to the main support. You can see how the main support and new extension part are much narrower and shallower than the factory 3B overlapping extension part:
Here's the support and new extension fitted up ready for welding. I'm happy with the fit of the formed shape at the joint.
Finished weld, and extension width trimmed:
Here's some pics of the finished hood support. The new extension ends are a lot cleaner looking than the factory tacked-on parts. The first pic shows the taper of the new extensions with the resulting clearance around the cowl mounting screws at the sides. The clearance is now pretty good. Overall, this took a lot longer than it should for a simple support, but I’m glad I fixed it.
I'll do a final trim at the bottom end of the support when I set the front fender height, which will be highlined - ie raised vs. stock.
The hood support hat channel section is just under an inch wide, and tallest in the center then tapers at the ends as it completes the curve at the side of the hood (underneath the overlapping, taller/wider spot welded factory 3B extenders that are welded on top of it). I decided to cut the main support at a point where it starts to taper in height, and where the hood curve has flattened into the flat hood sides. The part I planned to make would match the channel shape to butt weld at the cut original support ends, and then continue the taper as it approached the bottom of the hood. At the cut line, the hat channel height was 1/4”. The new extension piece will taper to a hat height of 1/8"- so it would nicely clear the sides of the cowl screws and still have a reasonable opening at the bottom for water drainage. I made it the same length as the original, but plan to shorten it when the highlined fender height is set.
After puzzling on how to form a hat shaped piece with the right cross section shape for the extensions, I came up with a little fixture to form the parts with a press.
A 1" square tube almost fit in the support hat section, and the sides of the formed main support are a bit more sloped than square. So I filed the side corners down on a piece of 1" square tube to get it to fit into the channel shape. Two angle steel pieces were then welded to the sides of the square stock to set the outer flange to center channel height. They are set for 1/4" height on one end, tapering to 1/8" height on the other:
I then used SWAG's adjustable press base for a channel to press the part into using this fixture. To keep the face of the formed part flat against the square stock (for the top of the "hat"), I used some different thicknesses of flat stock as shims in the bottom of the channel - swapping them out as the part progressed into the channel. (otherwise the top of the hat section would form with a rounded crown - which I figured out on the first forming attempt...)
Here's the forming fixture, the new formed extension part, and the factory 3B extension part, next to the main support. You can see how the main support and new extension part are much narrower and shallower than the factory 3B overlapping extension part:
Here's the support and new extension fitted up ready for welding. I'm happy with the fit of the formed shape at the joint.
Finished weld, and extension width trimmed:
Here's some pics of the finished hood support. The new extension ends are a lot cleaner looking than the factory tacked-on parts. The first pic shows the taper of the new extensions with the resulting clearance around the cowl mounting screws at the sides. The clearance is now pretty good. Overall, this took a lot longer than it should for a simple support, but I’m glad I fixed it.
I'll do a final trim at the bottom end of the support when I set the front fender height, which will be highlined - ie raised vs. stock.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #136
Windshield Frame & Cowl
The lower sides of the cowl needed a patch panel added that includes a new lower mounting flange. CJ3B's have two seams at this side location. Willys added a filler panel between the CJ3A side panel and cowl to raise the cowl 4.75” making the “new for 1953” 3B body tub align with its high hood and grill. I had cut the cowl off at the top seam, and needed to patch it with a piece that included a new flange - in a new location.
In addition to the needed cowl flange work, the stock windshield mounting brackets wouldn't work with the removable cowl concept because they bolt through the cowl panel. The windshield and brackets would need to be removed to remove the cowl. For cowl removal with the windshield simply folded down, the windshield pivot needed to be below the lower cowl flange.
Thinking about the windshield mount pivot lead to potentially changing the stock “squashed tube” windshield frame end design to make it and the bracket more finished / less of a knuckle buster.
These considerations lead to these design changes:
Here's bosses made for the windshield side of the pivot. They fit recessed stainless shoulder bolts from McMaster Carr. They’re turned from 1 1/4" round stock to match the height of the windshield frame tubing:
Cut and formed some bits to make a curved box that would match the windshield frame tube size and shape, then tacked and welded them to the pivot bosses:
The edge welds were then filed to simulate the look of the original windshield frame tube, then they were welded to the frame. The new pivots are positioned with the pivot point 1/4" farther back from the hood edge (ie shorter windshield frame arm length). The back edge of 3B hoods often rubs against the windshield mounting brackets so I thought I'd improve the clearance by moving the new mounts back a little. I couldn't move them much though, otherwise the windshield wipers won't clear when the windshield is folded down. 1/4" should work out. To mark the cut point on the windshield frame to get the positioning where I wanted it, I rigged up a 1/2" locator punch in a portable vice so I could align it's position 1/4" back from the center point of the original windshield frame pivot, then slid the boss assembly over to mark the cut tline.
Some 1/2" all-thread with nuts and washers was used to align the two pivot bosses to each other across the windshield span. Also added clamps to align the new tip assemblies to the cut frame tubes, the tacked and made final welds. The all thread seemed to work reasonably, but later work showed up some issues. More on this coming up.
Finished new windshield pivot (or so I thought...)
At that point, I was happy with how they turned out, so moved on to the body side of the windshield mount and the cowl support structure.
The lower sides of the cowl needed a patch panel added that includes a new lower mounting flange. CJ3B's have two seams at this side location. Willys added a filler panel between the CJ3A side panel and cowl to raise the cowl 4.75” making the “new for 1953” 3B body tub align with its high hood and grill. I had cut the cowl off at the top seam, and needed to patch it with a piece that included a new flange - in a new location.
In addition to the needed cowl flange work, the stock windshield mounting brackets wouldn't work with the removable cowl concept because they bolt through the cowl panel. The windshield and brackets would need to be removed to remove the cowl. For cowl removal with the windshield simply folded down, the windshield pivot needed to be below the lower cowl flange.
Thinking about the windshield mount pivot lead to potentially changing the stock “squashed tube” windshield frame end design to make it and the bracket more finished / less of a knuckle buster.
These considerations lead to these design changes:
- The 3B filler panel would be replaced by a square tube structure that ties to the cage A pillar and the engine cage at the firewall. While a round tube would be preferable as a roll cage element, a square tube was chosen so that the cowl and side body panels can attach to it with flat flanges for sealing.
- The cowl seam is positioned just above the windshield pivot point to enable cowl removal with the windshield attached, folded down. The windshield pivot bolt threads into a fixed boss on the square tube cage structure.
- The fixed windshield pivot boss loses the adjustability of the stock windshield pivot bracket, but the plan is to also remove the windshield hold down clamps from the dash, replacing them with hold downs at the top corners of the windshield frame attaching to the cage. This higher clamp point will reduce windshield wobble and not rely on smashing the windshield cowl gasket to both determine windshield position and create sealing. If I fit the windshield well, I don’t think that pivot adjustability will be needed.
Here's bosses made for the windshield side of the pivot. They fit recessed stainless shoulder bolts from McMaster Carr. They’re turned from 1 1/4" round stock to match the height of the windshield frame tubing:
Cut and formed some bits to make a curved box that would match the windshield frame tube size and shape, then tacked and welded them to the pivot bosses:
The edge welds were then filed to simulate the look of the original windshield frame tube, then they were welded to the frame. The new pivots are positioned with the pivot point 1/4" farther back from the hood edge (ie shorter windshield frame arm length). The back edge of 3B hoods often rubs against the windshield mounting brackets so I thought I'd improve the clearance by moving the new mounts back a little. I couldn't move them much though, otherwise the windshield wipers won't clear when the windshield is folded down. 1/4" should work out. To mark the cut point on the windshield frame to get the positioning where I wanted it, I rigged up a 1/2" locator punch in a portable vice so I could align it's position 1/4" back from the center point of the original windshield frame pivot, then slid the boss assembly over to mark the cut tline.
Some 1/2" all-thread with nuts and washers was used to align the two pivot bosses to each other across the windshield span. Also added clamps to align the new tip assemblies to the cut frame tubes, the tacked and made final welds. The all thread seemed to work reasonably, but later work showed up some issues. More on this coming up.
Finished new windshield pivot (or so I thought...)
At that point, I was happy with how they turned out, so moved on to the body side of the windshield mount and the cowl support structure.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #137
Cowl support structure:
The final cowl supports are a square tube structure tied to the cage as described earlier, but the initial concept was a bit different: a 1.5" round cage tube running from the A pillar to the firewall positioned inboard and above a separate cowl support part that the cowl, windshield , and body side panel would attach to. I liked the round tube part of that idea, but the rest didn't work out, so it evolved to the square tube design.
This shows the parts made for that initial concept:
When these supports were fitted up with the windshield, cowl, and firewall, the idea ran into some problems:
The stock "squashed tube - stamped bracket" mounts are more forgiving of angular positioning on the cowl. Willys made a smart move for production ease! The bosses in my design are less forgiving in placement. But I liked the less cluttered idea of the new mounts, and the removable cowl concept, so I changed some things to make at all work better.
The initial windshield bosses were cut off:
Cleaned up the cut to fit new bosses with the same initial design.
To set the spacing of the pivots on the windshield frame more accurately, and keep them better aligned and parallel through welding, the all-thread fixturing idea was ditched, and a more rigid support was made out of 1 1/4" bar stock I had around.
My little lathe can't fit that diameter of bar stock through the headstock to turn the ends square... so I cut the rod with a saw, then filed the ends checking with a square, and checking the length for correct boss spacing. When close with a file, the ends were lapped square by spinning them against sandpaper stuck to the top of my table saw, with a little fixture mocked up to keep the rod square to the sanding surface. The little v clamp piece in the foreground was used to press the rod against the angle blocks with one hand while spinning the rod with the other. Took a little time, but the ends were flat and square to the shaft. Holes were drilled using a drill press, and tapped using a tap guide in the press - to mount the pivot bosses on the fixture rod. Not as accurate as a lathe, but was able to do pretty well.
New pivots, with new fixture rod in place, ready to weld:
Welded the new bosses in and the alignment was good as checked by rotating the assembly on the fixture rod afterwards.
Cowl supports:
The first attempt at cowl supports shown above was fabbed out of flat stock. Welding the full edge length of the parts caused too much warpage, contributing to their alignment issues. Into the scrap bin they went.
Another iteration was started using a 1" x 1.5" x 0.120" tube instead. Working with that idea, another issue became more apparent. The initial idea was to place the cage A pillar so it integrated with the dash - either aligned with or behind the dash panel. This would look clean, and enable a nice mounting of the fixed dash panel and cowl support structure. However, mocking this up lead to the realization that with the angled flat fender body sides, putting the A pillar that far forward really cramped the footwell space…
So the concept changed some more to have a conventional flat fender A pillar position - set back a little ways from the dash to gain more lateral foot room.
The A pillar to firewall cage plan changed as well. I originally was going to run a 1.5" round tube from the A pillar to the firewall corners (to tie in to the engine bay cage) above the separate cowl supports. This became more complicated with the new A pillar position.
To simplify things, I decided to make larger 1.5" square tube cowl supports that run from the planned A pillar to the firewall to tie into the engine bay cage tubes- so they serve as the short cage tubes to the firewall while also providing flat mounting/sealing surfaces for the cowl and body side panels. The supports visually replace the "filler panel" on the side of a 3B, and are mostly hidden by the windshield frame. The cowl panel and bottom body panel will attach with screws/nuts in through-holes with crush tubes. Also the cowl support windshield pivot boss design was changed to provide an easier way to assure alignment of the pivot bosses.
Here are the final design cowl support tubes, partially completed. The bend in the shape aligns to the dash panel/body door opening, and the lower parts of the tubes will be fit to the 1.75” cage A pillars.
The new cowl side windshield pivot bosses have smaller diameter inside ends that insert in holes in the outer wall of the cowl support tubes. This lets the boss angle float a little at the cowl support prior to welding - so they can be tacked while the cowl support, cowl, and windshield are all positioned in place at the firewall. This made it much easier to get the alignment and positioning right. The smaller diameter boss also provides more clearance to the back edge of the hood. The bosses are blind tapped so water doesn’t enter the support through it. Here they are tacked (with the patched cowl attached to insure correct positioning, and then final welded to the cowl support tube (with the cowl removed):
As shown above, to wrap up the removable cowl mods, the patch panels with mounting flanges were added on the cowl sides.
Before fitting the patch panel, the cowl edge was trimmed to a point that would replace some warped areas around old windshield bracket holes and some old dent patching. Here's the cut, and the fitted patch panel. These next photos are tipped sideways to show the parts better…
After bench fitting the patch panel and flange, then it was final fitted on the rig. This made sure that the cowl sides matched up to the firewall flange across the front, and both cowl supports. Once tacked, they were removed and fully welded. They were then clamped to the side supports again to mark the mounting holes on the cowl side flanges using a transfer punch through the cowl support mounting holes. Here's the flanges with mounting holes drilled - viewed from the underside of the cowl:
I'll trim the dash side of the cowl assembly later on when the dash panel comes together. What currently looks like the dash panel on the cowl assembly will be cut back to make a 1" flange that will overlap the upper part of the dash - like the factory design but attaching to the dash panel with button head screws rather than spot welds.
The final cowl supports are a square tube structure tied to the cage as described earlier, but the initial concept was a bit different: a 1.5" round cage tube running from the A pillar to the firewall positioned inboard and above a separate cowl support part that the cowl, windshield , and body side panel would attach to. I liked the round tube part of that idea, but the rest didn't work out, so it evolved to the square tube design.
This shows the parts made for that initial concept:
When these supports were fitted up with the windshield, cowl, and firewall, the idea ran into some problems:
- The windshield pivots on the windshield frame made in the last post were not sufficiently aligned to each other - particularly the mounting boss faces weren’t adequately parallel to each other. The all-thread clamping during welding didn't work as well as I initially thought. This misalignment created too much binding against the cowl side mounting bosses when lowering the windshield.
- When the windshield mounts were tightened to the mounting bosses on the cowl supports, the cowl supports didn't line up to the cowl angle very well. In other words the windshield mounting bosses on the supports weren't aligned accurately relative to the body angle face of the support.
- I needed to change a bunch of things about how I built the cowl supports to assure better angular placement of the windshield mounting bosses on the cowl supports, and alignment of the supports to the firewall and tapered cowl sheet metal.
The stock "squashed tube - stamped bracket" mounts are more forgiving of angular positioning on the cowl. Willys made a smart move for production ease! The bosses in my design are less forgiving in placement. But I liked the less cluttered idea of the new mounts, and the removable cowl concept, so I changed some things to make at all work better.
The initial windshield bosses were cut off:
Cleaned up the cut to fit new bosses with the same initial design.
To set the spacing of the pivots on the windshield frame more accurately, and keep them better aligned and parallel through welding, the all-thread fixturing idea was ditched, and a more rigid support was made out of 1 1/4" bar stock I had around.
My little lathe can't fit that diameter of bar stock through the headstock to turn the ends square... so I cut the rod with a saw, then filed the ends checking with a square, and checking the length for correct boss spacing. When close with a file, the ends were lapped square by spinning them against sandpaper stuck to the top of my table saw, with a little fixture mocked up to keep the rod square to the sanding surface. The little v clamp piece in the foreground was used to press the rod against the angle blocks with one hand while spinning the rod with the other. Took a little time, but the ends were flat and square to the shaft. Holes were drilled using a drill press, and tapped using a tap guide in the press - to mount the pivot bosses on the fixture rod. Not as accurate as a lathe, but was able to do pretty well.
New pivots, with new fixture rod in place, ready to weld:
Welded the new bosses in and the alignment was good as checked by rotating the assembly on the fixture rod afterwards.
Cowl supports:
The first attempt at cowl supports shown above was fabbed out of flat stock. Welding the full edge length of the parts caused too much warpage, contributing to their alignment issues. Into the scrap bin they went.
Another iteration was started using a 1" x 1.5" x 0.120" tube instead. Working with that idea, another issue became more apparent. The initial idea was to place the cage A pillar so it integrated with the dash - either aligned with or behind the dash panel. This would look clean, and enable a nice mounting of the fixed dash panel and cowl support structure. However, mocking this up lead to the realization that with the angled flat fender body sides, putting the A pillar that far forward really cramped the footwell space…
So the concept changed some more to have a conventional flat fender A pillar position - set back a little ways from the dash to gain more lateral foot room.
The A pillar to firewall cage plan changed as well. I originally was going to run a 1.5" round tube from the A pillar to the firewall corners (to tie in to the engine bay cage) above the separate cowl supports. This became more complicated with the new A pillar position.
To simplify things, I decided to make larger 1.5" square tube cowl supports that run from the planned A pillar to the firewall to tie into the engine bay cage tubes- so they serve as the short cage tubes to the firewall while also providing flat mounting/sealing surfaces for the cowl and body side panels. The supports visually replace the "filler panel" on the side of a 3B, and are mostly hidden by the windshield frame. The cowl panel and bottom body panel will attach with screws/nuts in through-holes with crush tubes. Also the cowl support windshield pivot boss design was changed to provide an easier way to assure alignment of the pivot bosses.
Here are the final design cowl support tubes, partially completed. The bend in the shape aligns to the dash panel/body door opening, and the lower parts of the tubes will be fit to the 1.75” cage A pillars.
The new cowl side windshield pivot bosses have smaller diameter inside ends that insert in holes in the outer wall of the cowl support tubes. This lets the boss angle float a little at the cowl support prior to welding - so they can be tacked while the cowl support, cowl, and windshield are all positioned in place at the firewall. This made it much easier to get the alignment and positioning right. The smaller diameter boss also provides more clearance to the back edge of the hood. The bosses are blind tapped so water doesn’t enter the support through it. Here they are tacked (with the patched cowl attached to insure correct positioning, and then final welded to the cowl support tube (with the cowl removed):
As shown above, to wrap up the removable cowl mods, the patch panels with mounting flanges were added on the cowl sides.
Before fitting the patch panel, the cowl edge was trimmed to a point that would replace some warped areas around old windshield bracket holes and some old dent patching. Here's the cut, and the fitted patch panel. These next photos are tipped sideways to show the parts better…
After bench fitting the patch panel and flange, then it was final fitted on the rig. This made sure that the cowl sides matched up to the firewall flange across the front, and both cowl supports. Once tacked, they were removed and fully welded. They were then clamped to the side supports again to mark the mounting holes on the cowl side flanges using a transfer punch through the cowl support mounting holes. Here's the flanges with mounting holes drilled - viewed from the underside of the cowl:
I'll trim the dash side of the cowl assembly later on when the dash panel comes together. What currently looks like the dash panel on the cowl assembly will be cut back to make a 1" flange that will overlap the upper part of the dash - like the factory design but attaching to the dash panel with button head screws rather than spot welds.
Last edited:
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #138
Pedals
Tackled the brake, clutch, gas pedals next. I'm running a hydraulic clutch with internal slave, and hydroboost brakes. I had very little knowledge of hydro boost brakes so dug in to learn more during the pedal build effort. Discussion with a number of forum members in the old build thread was really helpful in sorting out some questions, and I’ll summarize here what came from that.
Initially I was thinking through pedal options like CJ, XJ, YJ pedals, but I decided to build my own pedal assembly for the flexibility to choose placement of the pedals, firewall master cylinder placement, column placement, and pedal ratios. While lateral foot room is a challenge in a flat fender, fortunately the tall CJ3B cowl and engine bay provide more room vertically. For the gas pedal, I had a lokar hot rod pedal that I thought I’d use, but later decided to make a gas pedal in order to fit it where I wanted it.
Pedal ratios:
The rest of this post is about the clutch and brake pedal ratios - primarily on the hydro boost. Pretty dry stuff. If not interested in pedal ratios, save yourself some grief and skip to the next post for pedal build stuff!
Hydraulic clutch pedal ratio:
For the clutch, I targeted a 6:1 pedal ratio, which is right in the middle of the Tilton recommended range for the Tilton slave and master I'm using. Nice to have documented specs to work with!
Hydroboost brake pedal ratio:
I'm using a Bosch hydro booster with 1 1/8" bore Chevy master cylinder, and 1971-78 Chevy 3/4 Ton Truck calipers front and rear. Finding hydro boost pedal ratio info was more challenging than for the clutch... I’ll recap the info I found at the time this was occurring in the build. (It was a couple years ago, so it may be easier to find similar info now. )
The commercial site for Master Power brake conversion products has some nice info on pedal ratios, and recommend a pedal ratio of 4:1 for “power brakes”, and 6:1 for manual. Digging in deeper confirmed 4:1 to be a good number for vacuum assist power brakes (which Master Power sells, so that makes sense!), but they didn't have ratio info for hydroboost brakes specifically, and what I could find elsewhere was sparse and murky. One commercial site for pick up truck conversion kits using the Bosch booster indicated they preferred a 5:1 ratio on hydro boost conversions. Another commercial chevy truck hydro conversion kit recommended a pedal ratio between 5:1 and 6:1. Hmmm.
Bill Vista’s brake article is amazing, and was really helpful and consistent with other info I'd found. The article describes manual brake and clutch master cylinder pedal ratios usually run between 5 and 7:1, while vacuum assist power brakes are around 4:1. The Bill Vista article also had info on his instal of a Vanco hydroboost on his rig. It didn’t have specifics on the pedal ratio, but on careful reading it appeared that he converted from manual to hydro with no change in pedal. This again implied a higher pedal ratio for hydro than for vacuum assist.
Discussion in my build thread at the old forum suggested comparing similar diesel/hydro vs gas/vacuum truck models by GM to see if there was a difference in the pedal set-up. One forum contributor found and measured two pedal examples:
‘05 Silverado w vac. brakes: 15” pivot to center of pad, 3 1/16” pivot to center of pushrod = 4.9:1
'98 3500 w hydro brakes: 15” pivot to center of pad, 2 5/16” pivot to center of pushrod = 6.5:1
Great direct measurement info. But the comparison wasn’t a clear side by side pedal difference in the same model year vehicle...however it continued the theme that hydro brakes used a higher pedal ratio than vacuum power brakes. Based on the GM samples above, I looked for more on GM truck vacuum to hydro conversions.
Several posts on GM truck sites cited swapping the brake pedal as part of hydro conversions. These confirmed that GM used two different pedals that fit in the main assembly, with the pedal ratio on the stock GM pedal for hydro being higher than the pedal for vacuum - but no info on the actual ratios.
One GM truck hydro upgrade post included a clear side by side photo comparing the before and after GM pedals used for the upgrade. Measuring relative lengths in the photo, the hydro ratio appeared to be about 6.8:1, while the vacuum assist was 4.1:1 Very similar to the in-hand direct pedal measurement 6.5 hydro ratio forum example described above.
Another post indicated that the pair of vacuum and hydro pedals that are swapped in GM truck conversions are consistent across models years from 88-94, and another pair of part numbers was consistent from 96 and up. If true, this would confirm the forum direct measurement example comparing 98 and 05 samples as a valid vacuum vs hydro ratio comparison.
So all the info I could find for hydro boost using the GM/Bosch unit pointed towards a range of 5 to 6.5:1 I already planned the clutch pedal ratio at 6:1, and 6:1 sounded like a reasonable choice for the brakes too.
I had already confirmed that the clutch pedal throw worked out OK at the 6:1 ratio, but its master cylinder stroke is shorter. Measured the brake pedal cylinder stroke and figured the throw at the 6:1 ratio and it also looked like it should work. A long pedal was needed to mount the hydro master high enough on the firewall to the clear valve cover (since the engine is mounted high). Combined with keeping the pedals at a reasonable height to the floor could create a pretty long pedal with a long throw, but by shaping the pedals well, they looked like they would clear just fine.
At this point, I still hadn’t found any explanation of why hydro would use a higher ratio than vacuum assist. They are both “power brakes” after all, so it seemed odd…
Too satisfy my curiosity, I bought a copy of an SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) paper, SAE 730536 "Hydraulics Offer Advantages in Power Brake Boosters", by Brown, Bach, and Baker of Bendix Corp. from 1973. My understanding is that the Bendix hydroboost design is now made by Bosch. The paper was an interesting read. I think I understand the pedal ratio difference between vacuum assist and hydro systems now:
Inside the hydro boost unit there’s a "ratio lever" whose function results in an effective power assist output ratio that is lower than the ratio of the mechanical pedal operating on the input side. While the hydro boost unit lowers the effective power assist output ratio, the total master cylinder output pressure achieved goes much higher than what a manual or vacuum assist system achieves. The specific design discussed in the paper has an internal "ratio lever" such that a 6:1 mechanical pedal ratio produces an effective power assist output ratio of about 4.3:1. In other words a 6:1 ratio pedal (similar to a typical manual system pedal ratio) produces an effective output ratio of 4.3:1 (similar to a typical vacuum assist pedal ratio). This example in the paper is very consistent with the GM side by side pedal ratio measurements and vacuum to hydro conversion info described above. It’s all making some sense!
The Bill Vista Vanco hydroboost review article has a hydroboost exploded view - and sure enough it shows the internal ratio lever - which is on the left in the diagram.
Geek curiosity satisfied, and with the estimated pedal throw being OK, I forged ahead with a 6:1 ratio for both clutch and brake pedals, and was able to work out an assembly that fits within the packaging constraints.
Tackled the brake, clutch, gas pedals next. I'm running a hydraulic clutch with internal slave, and hydroboost brakes. I had very little knowledge of hydro boost brakes so dug in to learn more during the pedal build effort. Discussion with a number of forum members in the old build thread was really helpful in sorting out some questions, and I’ll summarize here what came from that.
Initially I was thinking through pedal options like CJ, XJ, YJ pedals, but I decided to build my own pedal assembly for the flexibility to choose placement of the pedals, firewall master cylinder placement, column placement, and pedal ratios. While lateral foot room is a challenge in a flat fender, fortunately the tall CJ3B cowl and engine bay provide more room vertically. For the gas pedal, I had a lokar hot rod pedal that I thought I’d use, but later decided to make a gas pedal in order to fit it where I wanted it.
Pedal ratios:
The rest of this post is about the clutch and brake pedal ratios - primarily on the hydro boost. Pretty dry stuff. If not interested in pedal ratios, save yourself some grief and skip to the next post for pedal build stuff!
Hydraulic clutch pedal ratio:
For the clutch, I targeted a 6:1 pedal ratio, which is right in the middle of the Tilton recommended range for the Tilton slave and master I'm using. Nice to have documented specs to work with!
Hydroboost brake pedal ratio:
I'm using a Bosch hydro booster with 1 1/8" bore Chevy master cylinder, and 1971-78 Chevy 3/4 Ton Truck calipers front and rear. Finding hydro boost pedal ratio info was more challenging than for the clutch... I’ll recap the info I found at the time this was occurring in the build. (It was a couple years ago, so it may be easier to find similar info now. )
The commercial site for Master Power brake conversion products has some nice info on pedal ratios, and recommend a pedal ratio of 4:1 for “power brakes”, and 6:1 for manual. Digging in deeper confirmed 4:1 to be a good number for vacuum assist power brakes (which Master Power sells, so that makes sense!), but they didn't have ratio info for hydroboost brakes specifically, and what I could find elsewhere was sparse and murky. One commercial site for pick up truck conversion kits using the Bosch booster indicated they preferred a 5:1 ratio on hydro boost conversions. Another commercial chevy truck hydro conversion kit recommended a pedal ratio between 5:1 and 6:1. Hmmm.
Bill Vista’s brake article is amazing, and was really helpful and consistent with other info I'd found. The article describes manual brake and clutch master cylinder pedal ratios usually run between 5 and 7:1, while vacuum assist power brakes are around 4:1. The Bill Vista article also had info on his instal of a Vanco hydroboost on his rig. It didn’t have specifics on the pedal ratio, but on careful reading it appeared that he converted from manual to hydro with no change in pedal. This again implied a higher pedal ratio for hydro than for vacuum assist.
Discussion in my build thread at the old forum suggested comparing similar diesel/hydro vs gas/vacuum truck models by GM to see if there was a difference in the pedal set-up. One forum contributor found and measured two pedal examples:
‘05 Silverado w vac. brakes: 15” pivot to center of pad, 3 1/16” pivot to center of pushrod = 4.9:1
'98 3500 w hydro brakes: 15” pivot to center of pad, 2 5/16” pivot to center of pushrod = 6.5:1
Great direct measurement info. But the comparison wasn’t a clear side by side pedal difference in the same model year vehicle...however it continued the theme that hydro brakes used a higher pedal ratio than vacuum power brakes. Based on the GM samples above, I looked for more on GM truck vacuum to hydro conversions.
Several posts on GM truck sites cited swapping the brake pedal as part of hydro conversions. These confirmed that GM used two different pedals that fit in the main assembly, with the pedal ratio on the stock GM pedal for hydro being higher than the pedal for vacuum - but no info on the actual ratios.
One GM truck hydro upgrade post included a clear side by side photo comparing the before and after GM pedals used for the upgrade. Measuring relative lengths in the photo, the hydro ratio appeared to be about 6.8:1, while the vacuum assist was 4.1:1 Very similar to the in-hand direct pedal measurement 6.5 hydro ratio forum example described above.
Another post indicated that the pair of vacuum and hydro pedals that are swapped in GM truck conversions are consistent across models years from 88-94, and another pair of part numbers was consistent from 96 and up. If true, this would confirm the forum direct measurement example comparing 98 and 05 samples as a valid vacuum vs hydro ratio comparison.
So all the info I could find for hydro boost using the GM/Bosch unit pointed towards a range of 5 to 6.5:1 I already planned the clutch pedal ratio at 6:1, and 6:1 sounded like a reasonable choice for the brakes too.
I had already confirmed that the clutch pedal throw worked out OK at the 6:1 ratio, but its master cylinder stroke is shorter. Measured the brake pedal cylinder stroke and figured the throw at the 6:1 ratio and it also looked like it should work. A long pedal was needed to mount the hydro master high enough on the firewall to the clear valve cover (since the engine is mounted high). Combined with keeping the pedals at a reasonable height to the floor could create a pretty long pedal with a long throw, but by shaping the pedals well, they looked like they would clear just fine.
At this point, I still hadn’t found any explanation of why hydro would use a higher ratio than vacuum assist. They are both “power brakes” after all, so it seemed odd…
Too satisfy my curiosity, I bought a copy of an SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) paper, SAE 730536 "Hydraulics Offer Advantages in Power Brake Boosters", by Brown, Bach, and Baker of Bendix Corp. from 1973. My understanding is that the Bendix hydroboost design is now made by Bosch. The paper was an interesting read. I think I understand the pedal ratio difference between vacuum assist and hydro systems now:
Inside the hydro boost unit there’s a "ratio lever" whose function results in an effective power assist output ratio that is lower than the ratio of the mechanical pedal operating on the input side. While the hydro boost unit lowers the effective power assist output ratio, the total master cylinder output pressure achieved goes much higher than what a manual or vacuum assist system achieves. The specific design discussed in the paper has an internal "ratio lever" such that a 6:1 mechanical pedal ratio produces an effective power assist output ratio of about 4.3:1. In other words a 6:1 ratio pedal (similar to a typical manual system pedal ratio) produces an effective output ratio of 4.3:1 (similar to a typical vacuum assist pedal ratio). This example in the paper is very consistent with the GM side by side pedal ratio measurements and vacuum to hydro conversion info described above. It’s all making some sense!
The Bill Vista Vanco hydroboost review article has a hydroboost exploded view - and sure enough it shows the internal ratio lever - which is on the left in the diagram.
Geek curiosity satisfied, and with the estimated pedal throw being OK, I forged ahead with a 6:1 ratio for both clutch and brake pedals, and was able to work out an assembly that fits within the packaging constraints.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #139
Clutch & Brake Pedal Assembly
Made some 2D drawings first to firm up the design before fabbing parts as there were a lot of little details to work out so the arms have enough travel, match the master cylinder strokes, pedals end up at the positions I want, etc...
I'm happy with how the Clutch and Brake pedal assembly turned out:
The front of the assembly will bolt to the lower flange of the dash - I'll be adding dash mounting points and an upper steering column mount to the pedal box frame later on.
Here's some shots of the major pieces. The first has the box frame view from the bottom, the second has the box viewed from the top:
The "box" is 0.120" cold rolled flat stock, with formed bends at the front corners, and welded center section and top plates. One top plate has a threaded insert for the clutch pedal travel stop ( to avoid overextending the clutch MC). The other top plate has a hole for mounting a Jeep stop light switch.
The shaft is a 5/8" linear bearing shaft from McMaster Carr. It has a 3/8 threaded end on it. Really a high quality piece for the price. I also picked up their high load SAE bushings to fit the shaft, and that have a 0.750" OD to fit inside 1"OD x 0.120" wall DOM tubes on the pedal arms. They are like bronze oilite bushings, but have some iron added to withstand higher loads.
The pedal arms are 5/16" thick 1018 CR. The brake pedal is positioned to the outside of the planned steering column to make enough room for the gas pedal next to the transmission tunnel.
Both arms are 16" long from pivot to pedal center, and have a pedal ratio 6:1. The clutch MC has a stroke of 1.1", while the brake MC has a stroke of 1.5". The shape of the arms is the same except at the push rod pivot- which is slightly different on each to best position the pivot point for the different MC strokes- starting from the same "up" pedal position. When positioned on the firewall, the back side of the lower arm shape generally follows the firewall / foot well slope with 3/4" - 1" clearance when the pedal is fully depressed. (the firewall - floor angle transition is lower than stock- to provide more pedal clearance)
Here's some detail pics on how the shaft mounts in the box frame. The box frame is drilled to 5/8" on all of the shaft mounting holes, so the force of pressing the pedals is bearing on the full shaft diameter- not on the smaller 3/8" threaded section. On one side of the frame there's a 1" OD x 3/8" ID x 1/4" thick lathe faced washer - welded to the side plate, as shown in the photos. The 3/8" threaded section of the shaft holds the shaft in place laterally at this washer/pocket. Two flats were ground on the opposite end of the shaft to fit a 1/2" wrench to enable the securing nylock nut to be tightened on the threaded end.
The last assembly step was to weld the pivot tubes in the pedal arms. The shaft, pivot bushings, tubes and pedal arms were set up in the box frame to do final positioning. The master cylinder pushrods use clevis fittings from Speedway, and I wanted to make sure that the pedal arms they mount to were well centered and not tilted or twisted over the mc mounting holes. With everything clamped in position, the pivot tubes were tacked to the pedal arms. Then the pedal arms and pivot tubes were removed, tacked more fully, and final welded.
I wanted to minimize the potential for tilt of the tubes from weld shrinkage, to assure good pushrod alignment and pedal positioning. Here's a pic of the fixturing approach I ended up using. Two square fixture blocks were bolted together lightly to secure the tube between them, and the pedal arm was clamped level on top of them, perpendicular to the tube. (The flat plates underneath the arm provide clearance to the fixture blocks for the tube welds on the underside). I welded short sections, repositioning the arms before each weld segment so the fixture blocks would oppose tilt of the tube from shrinkage during each weld section. Worked out well. The tubes are very perpendicular to the arms after welding. Phew!
Here's a shot of the partially finished assembly. The pedal pads were welded on after I made the gas pedal, so I could check foot clearance across all three pedals before locking in the pad positions.
Next- mocked up the assembly on the firewall, and then made the gas pedal.
Made some 2D drawings first to firm up the design before fabbing parts as there were a lot of little details to work out so the arms have enough travel, match the master cylinder strokes, pedals end up at the positions I want, etc...
I'm happy with how the Clutch and Brake pedal assembly turned out:
The front of the assembly will bolt to the lower flange of the dash - I'll be adding dash mounting points and an upper steering column mount to the pedal box frame later on.
Here's some shots of the major pieces. The first has the box frame view from the bottom, the second has the box viewed from the top:
The "box" is 0.120" cold rolled flat stock, with formed bends at the front corners, and welded center section and top plates. One top plate has a threaded insert for the clutch pedal travel stop ( to avoid overextending the clutch MC). The other top plate has a hole for mounting a Jeep stop light switch.
The shaft is a 5/8" linear bearing shaft from McMaster Carr. It has a 3/8 threaded end on it. Really a high quality piece for the price. I also picked up their high load SAE bushings to fit the shaft, and that have a 0.750" OD to fit inside 1"OD x 0.120" wall DOM tubes on the pedal arms. They are like bronze oilite bushings, but have some iron added to withstand higher loads.
The pedal arms are 5/16" thick 1018 CR. The brake pedal is positioned to the outside of the planned steering column to make enough room for the gas pedal next to the transmission tunnel.
Both arms are 16" long from pivot to pedal center, and have a pedal ratio 6:1. The clutch MC has a stroke of 1.1", while the brake MC has a stroke of 1.5". The shape of the arms is the same except at the push rod pivot- which is slightly different on each to best position the pivot point for the different MC strokes- starting from the same "up" pedal position. When positioned on the firewall, the back side of the lower arm shape generally follows the firewall / foot well slope with 3/4" - 1" clearance when the pedal is fully depressed. (the firewall - floor angle transition is lower than stock- to provide more pedal clearance)
Here's some detail pics on how the shaft mounts in the box frame. The box frame is drilled to 5/8" on all of the shaft mounting holes, so the force of pressing the pedals is bearing on the full shaft diameter- not on the smaller 3/8" threaded section. On one side of the frame there's a 1" OD x 3/8" ID x 1/4" thick lathe faced washer - welded to the side plate, as shown in the photos. The 3/8" threaded section of the shaft holds the shaft in place laterally at this washer/pocket. Two flats were ground on the opposite end of the shaft to fit a 1/2" wrench to enable the securing nylock nut to be tightened on the threaded end.
The last assembly step was to weld the pivot tubes in the pedal arms. The shaft, pivot bushings, tubes and pedal arms were set up in the box frame to do final positioning. The master cylinder pushrods use clevis fittings from Speedway, and I wanted to make sure that the pedal arms they mount to were well centered and not tilted or twisted over the mc mounting holes. With everything clamped in position, the pivot tubes were tacked to the pedal arms. Then the pedal arms and pivot tubes were removed, tacked more fully, and final welded.
I wanted to minimize the potential for tilt of the tubes from weld shrinkage, to assure good pushrod alignment and pedal positioning. Here's a pic of the fixturing approach I ended up using. Two square fixture blocks were bolted together lightly to secure the tube between them, and the pedal arm was clamped level on top of them, perpendicular to the tube. (The flat plates underneath the arm provide clearance to the fixture blocks for the tube welds on the underside). I welded short sections, repositioning the arms before each weld segment so the fixture blocks would oppose tilt of the tube from shrinkage during each weld section. Worked out well. The tubes are very perpendicular to the arms after welding. Phew!
Here's a shot of the partially finished assembly. The pedal pads were welded on after I made the gas pedal, so I could check foot clearance across all three pedals before locking in the pad positions.
Next- mocked up the assembly on the firewall, and then made the gas pedal.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #140
Pedal Assembly Mock-Up
Mocked up the pedal assembly on the firewall, and a rough seat arrangement so I could confirm the fit and firm up the gas pedal approach. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation- need a seat to assess pedals, but need pedals to assess the seating position. Got it good enough to forge ahead.
Here's some views of the assembly from the drivers seat direction. There's a fair amount of distortion in the views from being close up- so I took a few pics at different positions to compensate for the perspective quirks with different camera angles. The tape measure shows distances from the tunnel wall and between pedals. The last photo is probably the best view of the gas pedal area specifically.
Here's a couple of side views. The first is with the pedals up in the position they should end up with the MC's in place, push rods not depressed. The second pic has the clutch down (pad taken off since spring clamp holding it hit the floor) It’s actually farther down than the clutch MC stroke will allow, and the stop will keep it from going this far once adjusted. The brake pedal is similar - both will have about an inch clearance with the pedals down all the way.
Some other points on these pics:
The floor "angle" section is about the same angle as stock but shorter in height of the top bend is lower, which then moves the lower bend forward. The top transition bend to the vertical firewall is 6.5" above the floor/frame rail, whereas the stock height is about 9.5", ie 3" lower than stock- so there's more clearance for the pedal stroke.
The felt pen mark on the firewall between the tunnel and brake pedal in the driver views is where I think the steering column will end up. In the stock arrangement the column goes through the taller angled floor section, here it goes through the vertical firewall section. Independent of the floor intersection reference points, the column position shown is higher than stock, and the column will "lay back" more horizontal than stock. The column position through the firewall can move a little, but the path through the engine compartment is pretty constrained. This marked position looks like a good balance of clearances to headers, rear spark plug, and motor mount.
The lateral placement of the pedal assembly on the firewall is set to balance clearance from the hydroboost back up pressure cylinder to the engine valve cover PCV valve, with also keeping the clutch MC inboard enough that I can sneak a cage tube from the upper firewall corner to a front radiator hoop. If I need to tweak the pedal position, I'd likely leave the pedal box where it is and change the pedal pad position on the arms and /or arm bends to shift the pedals.
My widest boots are about 4.75" wide. I think the space between the tunnel and brake pedal will be enough for boot clearance at the gas pedal....
Mocked up the pedal assembly on the firewall, and a rough seat arrangement so I could confirm the fit and firm up the gas pedal approach. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation- need a seat to assess pedals, but need pedals to assess the seating position. Got it good enough to forge ahead.
Here's some views of the assembly from the drivers seat direction. There's a fair amount of distortion in the views from being close up- so I took a few pics at different positions to compensate for the perspective quirks with different camera angles. The tape measure shows distances from the tunnel wall and between pedals. The last photo is probably the best view of the gas pedal area specifically.
Here's a couple of side views. The first is with the pedals up in the position they should end up with the MC's in place, push rods not depressed. The second pic has the clutch down (pad taken off since spring clamp holding it hit the floor) It’s actually farther down than the clutch MC stroke will allow, and the stop will keep it from going this far once adjusted. The brake pedal is similar - both will have about an inch clearance with the pedals down all the way.
Some other points on these pics:
The floor "angle" section is about the same angle as stock but shorter in height of the top bend is lower, which then moves the lower bend forward. The top transition bend to the vertical firewall is 6.5" above the floor/frame rail, whereas the stock height is about 9.5", ie 3" lower than stock- so there's more clearance for the pedal stroke.
The felt pen mark on the firewall between the tunnel and brake pedal in the driver views is where I think the steering column will end up. In the stock arrangement the column goes through the taller angled floor section, here it goes through the vertical firewall section. Independent of the floor intersection reference points, the column position shown is higher than stock, and the column will "lay back" more horizontal than stock. The column position through the firewall can move a little, but the path through the engine compartment is pretty constrained. This marked position looks like a good balance of clearances to headers, rear spark plug, and motor mount.
The lateral placement of the pedal assembly on the firewall is set to balance clearance from the hydroboost back up pressure cylinder to the engine valve cover PCV valve, with also keeping the clutch MC inboard enough that I can sneak a cage tube from the upper firewall corner to a front radiator hoop. If I need to tweak the pedal position, I'd likely leave the pedal box where it is and change the pedal pad position on the arms and /or arm bends to shift the pedals.
My widest boots are about 4.75" wide. I think the space between the tunnel and brake pedal will be enough for boot clearance at the gas pedal....
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #141
Gas Pedal
Finished making a gas pedal. Here's what it looks like:
I decided to make my own so I'd have more flexibility in getting it to fit well. The aftermarket pedal I had was too short to clear the trans tunnel, and I also wanted to mount it to align well next to the raised tunnel and to route nicely into the engine compartment. I also didn't want the chrome/billet look.
Mounting on the firewall recess corner provided a nice straight travel path for the pedal arm that easily clears the tunnel. Using a fairly wide pivot shaft length (2" including bushings) places the cable arm at the flat section of the firewall for easy cable routing into the engine compartment.
Like the brake and clutch fab, the pedal ratio was a question. The pedal arm length is set at 7.5" from pivot center to pedal center, and the pedal pad is 3" long. The length was chosen to provide some varied foot positioning. Using the lower part of the pedal pad, it's effectively around 8.75" c-c. This foot position is most useable when the pedal is at light throttle, and gives a little higher ratio to be less twitchy. After setting the pedal arm length, I decided on the cable arm length of 6.25" center to center. That got the cable high enough to enter the engine compartment at a reasonable height to route to the carb, and the ratio ends up 1.2:1 to 1.4 - depending on where you are pressing the pedal pad. I wanted the ratio to be a little towards the "slower", or less sensitive side. Some aftermarket pedals like Billet Specialties are 1:1 which I think is too sensitive. The Lokar pedal I measured was 1.1:1. A few spoon style pedals with multiple cable attachment points range from 1.2 to 1.4 depending on the attachment point selected. I think the ratio range I worked out will work pretty well- generally about 1.2:1 but more like 1.4:1 when using the lower part of the pad. We'll see once its on the trail...
(I'm also planning a manual throttle control. Meiser on the old forum provided a lot of good feedback on his Rango set-up which is a bike friction thumb shifter mounted on the column. He had it on the transmission shifter at one point, and moved it to the column and really favored that approach. I think I'd find that easier to use as well, and am going to go that route as well. Haven't gotten that together yet though).
Here's the pieces before final assembly:
The mount bracket attaches on the firewall recess panel curve. I formed the curved plate on a press using a heavy wall tube as a form- the same tube form that I used to make the firewall sheet metal bend. The rest of the bracket is a piece of DOM tube and a short piece of rectangular tube. The bushings are the same as what I used in the brake pedal assembly, although one is shorter to match the tube width.
One issue with the DOM tube after welding was that the ID warped slightly, plus there was some scale to clean off inside the tube- so the bushings didn't fit well. A little clean up using a brake cylinder hone chucked in a hand drill restored a nice smooth bore with no slop in the bushing fit.
The pedal arm was welded to the pivot shaft, once its position was set. The cable arm is removable so that the bushings can be replaced. Lokar pedals use a spline on the gas pedal arm for adjustability and a D shaft & hole on the cable arm. I figured that once I set the position I want, welding the pedal arm means one less screw to loosen up-so I went with welding that side. I used the D shaft idea to make the cable arm removable. I turned the shaft ends on my little old lathe and cut the flat on the shaft using a file. The D hole in the arm started with a scribed layout, then drilled with an undersize hole, then the D profile was filed with a round chainsaw sharpening file, a small flat file, and a half round needle file to hit the corners. Took my time and get a nice fit. I also turned the end washer piece that fits the flathead screw to firmly clamp the arm to the shaft. Here's a pic:
Welded the foot pad on the pedal:
Here's the assembly ready to mount and to set the pedal arm position for welding:
Here's some additional pics of the finished assembly. It took way too much time, but I'm happy with how it fits:
Finished making a gas pedal. Here's what it looks like:
I decided to make my own so I'd have more flexibility in getting it to fit well. The aftermarket pedal I had was too short to clear the trans tunnel, and I also wanted to mount it to align well next to the raised tunnel and to route nicely into the engine compartment. I also didn't want the chrome/billet look.
Mounting on the firewall recess corner provided a nice straight travel path for the pedal arm that easily clears the tunnel. Using a fairly wide pivot shaft length (2" including bushings) places the cable arm at the flat section of the firewall for easy cable routing into the engine compartment.
Like the brake and clutch fab, the pedal ratio was a question. The pedal arm length is set at 7.5" from pivot center to pedal center, and the pedal pad is 3" long. The length was chosen to provide some varied foot positioning. Using the lower part of the pedal pad, it's effectively around 8.75" c-c. This foot position is most useable when the pedal is at light throttle, and gives a little higher ratio to be less twitchy. After setting the pedal arm length, I decided on the cable arm length of 6.25" center to center. That got the cable high enough to enter the engine compartment at a reasonable height to route to the carb, and the ratio ends up 1.2:1 to 1.4 - depending on where you are pressing the pedal pad. I wanted the ratio to be a little towards the "slower", or less sensitive side. Some aftermarket pedals like Billet Specialties are 1:1 which I think is too sensitive. The Lokar pedal I measured was 1.1:1. A few spoon style pedals with multiple cable attachment points range from 1.2 to 1.4 depending on the attachment point selected. I think the ratio range I worked out will work pretty well- generally about 1.2:1 but more like 1.4:1 when using the lower part of the pad. We'll see once its on the trail...
(I'm also planning a manual throttle control. Meiser on the old forum provided a lot of good feedback on his Rango set-up which is a bike friction thumb shifter mounted on the column. He had it on the transmission shifter at one point, and moved it to the column and really favored that approach. I think I'd find that easier to use as well, and am going to go that route as well. Haven't gotten that together yet though).
Here's the pieces before final assembly:
The mount bracket attaches on the firewall recess panel curve. I formed the curved plate on a press using a heavy wall tube as a form- the same tube form that I used to make the firewall sheet metal bend. The rest of the bracket is a piece of DOM tube and a short piece of rectangular tube. The bushings are the same as what I used in the brake pedal assembly, although one is shorter to match the tube width.
One issue with the DOM tube after welding was that the ID warped slightly, plus there was some scale to clean off inside the tube- so the bushings didn't fit well. A little clean up using a brake cylinder hone chucked in a hand drill restored a nice smooth bore with no slop in the bushing fit.
The pedal arm was welded to the pivot shaft, once its position was set. The cable arm is removable so that the bushings can be replaced. Lokar pedals use a spline on the gas pedal arm for adjustability and a D shaft & hole on the cable arm. I figured that once I set the position I want, welding the pedal arm means one less screw to loosen up-so I went with welding that side. I used the D shaft idea to make the cable arm removable. I turned the shaft ends on my little old lathe and cut the flat on the shaft using a file. The D hole in the arm started with a scribed layout, then drilled with an undersize hole, then the D profile was filed with a round chainsaw sharpening file, a small flat file, and a half round needle file to hit the corners. Took my time and get a nice fit. I also turned the end washer piece that fits the flathead screw to firmly clamp the arm to the shaft. Here's a pic:
Welded the foot pad on the pedal:
Here's the assembly ready to mount and to set the pedal arm position for welding:
Here's some additional pics of the finished assembly. It took way too much time, but I'm happy with how it fits:
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #142
Some assembly required...
Mounted the pedal assemblies and master cylinders. Measured the pedal box positioning on the firewall multiple times and crossed my fingers that I got it right - then drilled and finished all the mounting and through holes in the firewall. The flat sections of the firewall are 0.120" and the pedal box also will anchor at the dash, so I didn't use a reinforcement plate on the front of the firewall. Here's everything mounted up, with the cowl removed:
The Tilton clutch MC is short, which I like because it will enable me to run a cage tube in the engine compartment next to it. It also has a nice big reservoir, or can run a divorced reservoir. However, I knew I was going to have a close call on clearance of the reservoir cap with the firewall flange. Sure enough, it was a problem. One option is to use a divorced reservoir, but it was close enough that i could keep it simple by making a 0.250" thick spacer to move it out for clearance. This worked great. The cap now clears the firewall flange fine:
Here's shot of the powerboost with master cylinder and clutch master positions on the firewall. There will be enough room for a cage tube to run from the upper corner of the firewall to a radiator hoop in the engine compartment as I had hoped to accomplish.
I was also concerned about valve cover and PCV valve clearance with the powerboost pressure cylinder, and this worked out OK too. The front of the cylinder sits just behind the PCV, and has a reasonable amount of vertical clearance too:
Rough adjusted the pushrods on the brake and clutch, and also the brake switch and clutch pedal stop. Here's the brake switch and clutch MC pedal stop arrangement:
Here's a photo with the pedal travel bottomed out to the brake master cylinder stroke, and to the clutch master cylinder stroke (at the pedal stop to protect from overextension). Both have plenty of firewall clearance.
Here's the assemblies viewed from the drivers seat with the cowl back on.
With everything is mounted up, the pedal pad positioning was then finalized.
The photo shows a temporary lower cage A pillar in the position I initially intended. (The cowl support tube on top of it in this pic was changed to a 1.5" square tube as described in an earlier post. I grouped that change in that topic to make it easier to follow) I eliminated the usual formed sheet metal upright side body supports because the body panels attach to the square tube cage extensions along the bottom of the cowl sides - and it is well supported at the firewall and A pillar so there's no longer a need for the stamped body side supports.
I initially liked the idea of setting the A pillar such that its center line would align with the plane of the dash - as shown with the above mock up A pillar tube. This gets the cage tube out of the way of the door opening for entrance and exit. It would also have worked nice for the dash attachment approach. However, the down side of that idea is that moving the A pillar forward (from the typical cage positioning away from the dash) also moves it inward due to the angled body sides - increasing crowding of the foot space to the left of the clutch pedal.
Sitting in the rig to finalize the pedal pad placement, I decided to move the A pillar to the more conventional position (with a space between it and the dash). This gained about 7/8" in foot clearance to the left of the clutch pedal. It's also easier for placing a dash bar across the A pillars above the dash. The small gain in footpace may just allow the space to be used as a dead space foot rest and allow the dimmer switch to be placed in that area - similar to stock. Will see when the cage is together...
Mounted the pedal assemblies and master cylinders. Measured the pedal box positioning on the firewall multiple times and crossed my fingers that I got it right - then drilled and finished all the mounting and through holes in the firewall. The flat sections of the firewall are 0.120" and the pedal box also will anchor at the dash, so I didn't use a reinforcement plate on the front of the firewall. Here's everything mounted up, with the cowl removed:
The Tilton clutch MC is short, which I like because it will enable me to run a cage tube in the engine compartment next to it. It also has a nice big reservoir, or can run a divorced reservoir. However, I knew I was going to have a close call on clearance of the reservoir cap with the firewall flange. Sure enough, it was a problem. One option is to use a divorced reservoir, but it was close enough that i could keep it simple by making a 0.250" thick spacer to move it out for clearance. This worked great. The cap now clears the firewall flange fine:
Here's shot of the powerboost with master cylinder and clutch master positions on the firewall. There will be enough room for a cage tube to run from the upper corner of the firewall to a radiator hoop in the engine compartment as I had hoped to accomplish.
I was also concerned about valve cover and PCV valve clearance with the powerboost pressure cylinder, and this worked out OK too. The front of the cylinder sits just behind the PCV, and has a reasonable amount of vertical clearance too:
Rough adjusted the pushrods on the brake and clutch, and also the brake switch and clutch pedal stop. Here's the brake switch and clutch MC pedal stop arrangement:
Here's a photo with the pedal travel bottomed out to the brake master cylinder stroke, and to the clutch master cylinder stroke (at the pedal stop to protect from overextension). Both have plenty of firewall clearance.
Here's the assemblies viewed from the drivers seat with the cowl back on.
With everything is mounted up, the pedal pad positioning was then finalized.
The photo shows a temporary lower cage A pillar in the position I initially intended. (The cowl support tube on top of it in this pic was changed to a 1.5" square tube as described in an earlier post. I grouped that change in that topic to make it easier to follow) I eliminated the usual formed sheet metal upright side body supports because the body panels attach to the square tube cage extensions along the bottom of the cowl sides - and it is well supported at the firewall and A pillar so there's no longer a need for the stamped body side supports.
I initially liked the idea of setting the A pillar such that its center line would align with the plane of the dash - as shown with the above mock up A pillar tube. This gets the cage tube out of the way of the door opening for entrance and exit. It would also have worked nice for the dash attachment approach. However, the down side of that idea is that moving the A pillar forward (from the typical cage positioning away from the dash) also moves it inward due to the angled body sides - increasing crowding of the foot space to the left of the clutch pedal.
Sitting in the rig to finalize the pedal pad placement, I decided to move the A pillar to the more conventional position (with a space between it and the dash). This gained about 7/8" in foot clearance to the left of the clutch pedal. It's also easier for placing a dash bar across the A pillars above the dash. The small gain in footpace may just allow the space to be used as a dead space foot rest and allow the dimmer switch to be placed in that area - similar to stock. Will see when the cage is together...
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #143
Pedal wrap up
Following up on the prior posts- I ended up straightening the brake and clutch pedal arms a bit to tighten up the pedal spacing to further gain foot room on the left. I reduced the brake arm offset from 1" to 1/2", and also set the pedal pad offset toward the gas by an 1/8" - the combined changes set it closer to the gas pedal by 5/8". The CJ rubber pads have a notch for the arm, and it allows the pad to be offset a little without cutting the rubber pad. This was used to advantage to put a little offset of the metal pedal pad on the brake arm to preserve clearance for the steering column. The clutch pedal arm offset was also reduced from 2" to 1 3/8" , and the pedal pad was centered on the arm - so same 5/8" shift overall. These felt comfortable in the new positions. Maybe could go tighter, but my priority is on good control with no snags.
Welded on the metal pads, and attached the rubber covers to wrap it up:
Here's the final pedal positions:
On to making the dash panel...
Following up on the prior posts- I ended up straightening the brake and clutch pedal arms a bit to tighten up the pedal spacing to further gain foot room on the left. I reduced the brake arm offset from 1" to 1/2", and also set the pedal pad offset toward the gas by an 1/8" - the combined changes set it closer to the gas pedal by 5/8". The CJ rubber pads have a notch for the arm, and it allows the pad to be offset a little without cutting the rubber pad. This was used to advantage to put a little offset of the metal pedal pad on the brake arm to preserve clearance for the steering column. The clutch pedal arm offset was also reduced from 2" to 1 3/8" , and the pedal pad was centered on the arm - so same 5/8" shift overall. These felt comfortable in the new positions. Maybe could go tighter, but my priority is on good control with no snags.
Welded on the metal pads, and attached the rubber covers to wrap it up:
Here's the final pedal positions:
On to making the dash panel...
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #144
Dash Panel
I made the new dash panel next. It's a steel panel with a step formed around the edge that mates to backside of the cowl flange. The flanges will attach using 10-32 button head screws. The step is formed with a bead roller. The step places the front of the dash flush with the front of the cowl flange. I'm new to bead roller work, and it took a couple of attempts to get the step to follow the cowl flange that way I wanted it. The first two I made went in the scrap pile, but I'm happy with the third one. After forming the step, I made a flange at the bottom with about a 1/4” radius. This was formed with a slapper over the radiused edge of some rectangular tube. I'm not a fan of the sharp bend of the stock dash- had my shins smacked pretty bad by it in the past and wanted a little more forgiving lower edge. The panel is just a little shorter in height than a stock 3B, and the bottom edge aligns with the bottom of the cowl supports.
Photos:
Forming the lower flange with a slapper over a rectangular tube after bead rolling the step:
Dash panel placed on cowl supports (the back of the cowl support tubes will get trimmed and welded to the planned A pillars. The strap tacked across them is to maintain accurate position while making the dash panel )
Dash panel with cowl in place. You can see how the cowl flange is similar to stock at the top , but becomes wider at the ends, to match the cowl support width at the bottom to tie it together visually, plus provide more room for the dash panel attachment to the cowl supports. The bead rolled flange of the dash panel follows the same curvature as the cowl flange. The two dash panels that I scrapped didn't follow that curve very well which really looked bad when they were assembled together...Third time was better for this beginner learning on the job.
Will make mounts to attach the dash to the cowl supports and punch the dash flange holes soon- but want think through what else will be mounted under the cowl first. One thing that will be under there is a heater...
I made the new dash panel next. It's a steel panel with a step formed around the edge that mates to backside of the cowl flange. The flanges will attach using 10-32 button head screws. The step is formed with a bead roller. The step places the front of the dash flush with the front of the cowl flange. I'm new to bead roller work, and it took a couple of attempts to get the step to follow the cowl flange that way I wanted it. The first two I made went in the scrap pile, but I'm happy with the third one. After forming the step, I made a flange at the bottom with about a 1/4” radius. This was formed with a slapper over the radiused edge of some rectangular tube. I'm not a fan of the sharp bend of the stock dash- had my shins smacked pretty bad by it in the past and wanted a little more forgiving lower edge. The panel is just a little shorter in height than a stock 3B, and the bottom edge aligns with the bottom of the cowl supports.
Photos:
Forming the lower flange with a slapper over a rectangular tube after bead rolling the step:
Dash panel placed on cowl supports (the back of the cowl support tubes will get trimmed and welded to the planned A pillars. The strap tacked across them is to maintain accurate position while making the dash panel )
Dash panel with cowl in place. You can see how the cowl flange is similar to stock at the top , but becomes wider at the ends, to match the cowl support width at the bottom to tie it together visually, plus provide more room for the dash panel attachment to the cowl supports. The bead rolled flange of the dash panel follows the same curvature as the cowl flange. The two dash panels that I scrapped didn't follow that curve very well which really looked bad when they were assembled together...Third time was better for this beginner learning on the job.
Will make mounts to attach the dash to the cowl supports and punch the dash flange holes soon- but want think through what else will be mounted under the cowl first. One thing that will be under there is a heater...
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #145
Heater start:
I initially planned to use an original Willys/Harrison heater in keeping with a somewhat traditional look. I wanted to mount it differently from stock- closer the the firewall and higher up. Rather than chop up the original backplate, I decided to save it as is, and make a new back plate that I could add different mounts to.
Here's a pic of the heater front cover that I had previously prettied up, and partially completed new back panel that I hammer formed:
I got pretty far along on this, to the point of completing the back panel and planning the detail mounting at the firewall, thinking about converting the plumbing to AN fittings, etc...
...then it started dawned on me that the whole idea wasn't gong to work very well.
With the drivetrain pushed up for a flat belly, the transmission tunnel sits pretty high.
In a stock Willys, the tunnel is very low, and the heater also sits pretty low, -hanging down below the dash. The airflow from the left output vents flows nicely across the tunnel area to the drivers side.
With the flat bottom drivetrain, and a stock like heater mounting position, there would be virtually no flow to the driver side and the passenger would be cooked. Moving the heater up didn't work because its fan hump at the top collided with the underside of the cowl before it could get high enough for good flow.
At this point I paused on the Harrison heater adaptation to think through alternatives, and moved back to completing the mounting of the dash panel.
Will return to the heater topic as it occurred in chronological order, to show what I came up with in a later post...
I initially planned to use an original Willys/Harrison heater in keeping with a somewhat traditional look. I wanted to mount it differently from stock- closer the the firewall and higher up. Rather than chop up the original backplate, I decided to save it as is, and make a new back plate that I could add different mounts to.
Here's a pic of the heater front cover that I had previously prettied up, and partially completed new back panel that I hammer formed:
I got pretty far along on this, to the point of completing the back panel and planning the detail mounting at the firewall, thinking about converting the plumbing to AN fittings, etc...
...then it started dawned on me that the whole idea wasn't gong to work very well.
With the drivetrain pushed up for a flat belly, the transmission tunnel sits pretty high.
In a stock Willys, the tunnel is very low, and the heater also sits pretty low, -hanging down below the dash. The airflow from the left output vents flows nicely across the tunnel area to the drivers side.
With the flat bottom drivetrain, and a stock like heater mounting position, there would be virtually no flow to the driver side and the passenger would be cooked. Moving the heater up didn't work because its fan hump at the top collided with the underside of the cowl before it could get high enough for good flow.
At this point I paused on the Harrison heater adaptation to think through alternatives, and moved back to completing the mounting of the dash panel.
Will return to the heater topic as it occurred in chronological order, to show what I came up with in a later post...
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #146
Dash panel mounts
I initially held off on final mounting the dash panel as I was thinking of potentially mounting an air compressor, tank, and controls under the cowl behind the dash, and thought that could change how I mounted the dash panel. However, after thinking through it more carefully, having worked a bit on the heater, it was clear that wasn't a good fit. I decided instead to put the air system stuff under the passenger seat. Might be a little noisy, but think I'll try it. So I proceeded to get the dash mounted up- so I can move on to the steering column.
Made two simple tabs on the cowl supports to attach the lower flange of the dash panel. This supports the dash well enough when the cowl is removed for servicing stuff- and leaves the upper part of the dash panel flexible enough that the upper dash flange mounting screws snug it tight to the cowl flange when attached together.
Here's the passenger side tab. The dash will line up with the weld joint on the cowl support. The part of the support in the foreground will be trimmed and welded to the A pillar.
Used a Roper Whitney punch to make the cowl flange / dash mounting holes in the cowl flange, then clamped the dash panel and tightened up all the front firewall and side support screws on the cowl to get everything in final position. With the parts positioned, I used a transfer punch through the cowl flange holes to mark the dash flange hole positions. Took it all apart again (for what feels like the 100th time...) punched the dash flange holes, and pressed in 10-32 stainless PEM nuts. Here's some pics of:
Next up is the steering column and detail stuff associated with that. Received Mastercraft Rubicon seats at this point, so I could do the column fitting with a real seat mocked up.
I initially held off on final mounting the dash panel as I was thinking of potentially mounting an air compressor, tank, and controls under the cowl behind the dash, and thought that could change how I mounted the dash panel. However, after thinking through it more carefully, having worked a bit on the heater, it was clear that wasn't a good fit. I decided instead to put the air system stuff under the passenger seat. Might be a little noisy, but think I'll try it. So I proceeded to get the dash mounted up- so I can move on to the steering column.
Made two simple tabs on the cowl supports to attach the lower flange of the dash panel. This supports the dash well enough when the cowl is removed for servicing stuff- and leaves the upper part of the dash panel flexible enough that the upper dash flange mounting screws snug it tight to the cowl flange when attached together.
Here's the passenger side tab. The dash will line up with the weld joint on the cowl support. The part of the support in the foreground will be trimmed and welded to the A pillar.
Used a Roper Whitney punch to make the cowl flange / dash mounting holes in the cowl flange, then clamped the dash panel and tightened up all the front firewall and side support screws on the cowl to get everything in final position. With the parts positioned, I used a transfer punch through the cowl flange holes to mark the dash flange hole positions. Took it all apart again (for what feels like the 100th time...) punched the dash flange holes, and pressed in 10-32 stainless PEM nuts. Here's some pics of:
- Dash panel with flange punched
- Dash panel mounted on the cowl support tabs - viewed from the back side / above looking down toward the tab attachment nut
- Dash panel and cowl, all buttoned up with button head screws.
Next up is the steering column and detail stuff associated with that. Received Mastercraft Rubicon seats at this point, so I could do the column fitting with a real seat mocked up.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #147
Steering Column:
Continuing in the ****pit area- I ordered up a steering column and wheel from Limeworks. They make vintage style hot rod parts. Great folks - very helpful!
The column is their '40 Ford style, with a 1.5" tube - the same diameter as the stock Willys. It's a stainless tube (I chose unpolished) and has nice bearings and a splined lower shaft. It supports horn button wiring, with the wiring exit low on the shaft which works out nice in a Willys. I'll be running a traditional clamp on turn signal switch, and will also add a thumb shifter style manual throttle.
For the wheel, I went with a new model that they had just added- which is in the style of a 50's 356 Porshe. It's about 1" smaller diameter than the stock Willys wheel. I like a big wheel, but wanted one just a little smaller than stock. It has a traditional looking black outer rim, and stainless spokes. The shallow wheel dish combined with the wheel adapter and one of their stock column lengths gave me the overall length I wanted. They were great in talking through the details on the length, putting the parts together to confirm the total length while I was on the phone.
The wheel is one of the first four samples from their manufacturing run. Each one was made to demonstrate slightly different finish treatments - full polished, brushed, and in between variants. The final product has the fully polished shiny finish, but the less polished proto was the best fit to what I have in mind. They sent me pics of all of them so I could choose the one I liked best, which was cool. Great folks at Limeworks!
They make column mount parts too, but I wanted to make my own to better fit the space, and the style of the build
Here's some pics:
To mount the column, the pedal box needed to be completed by adding a tie in to the dash - to minimize flexing of the firewall from pedal force, and to provide support of the steering column drop. I originally was going to just weld a support piece onto the box, but decided to make the support piece detachable. The main reason was for service flexibility - to allow the pedal box to be removable from the top (lifting it up with the cowl removed), or out the bottom with the cowl and dash in place - it can be removed in either direction.
Here's what it turned out like:
The column drop is made from 304 stainless with a 304 "mountable collar" from McMaster Carr as a part of it. I bought a couple in case I screwed one up... The ID needed to be enlarged to better clear the bearing flange at the base of the column tube, so the collar would slide onto the shaft. On the first one I went a little too far and the fit was sloppy. The second one turned out good- only had to open up about 0.010". It slides on readily , and clamps well when tightened. The shape was also tweaked a little further - the faces were turned to thin it down to 1/2" thick, put a bigger radius on one end, and the finish is a little smoother. The final part is on the left, the original (with botched ID change) is on the right:
The collar clamp is attached onto the back of an 11 g 304 SS plate with a couple of 1/4-20 button head screws. The plate has a formed flange that attaches to the dash & pedal box column support:
One issue that I haven't addressed yet is the turn signal wiring and thumb shifter based manual throttle lever cable housing - both of which will run down the column and need to get past the column drop. I don't want to disrupt the collar clamp, so I think I may drill a hole in each of the upper corners just outside of the collar, add grommets, and run the wiring through the left and the throttle cable through the right. Will deal with that when doing wiring.
Floor mount in the next post. This little stuff sure takes a lot of time!
Continuing in the ****pit area- I ordered up a steering column and wheel from Limeworks. They make vintage style hot rod parts. Great folks - very helpful!
The column is their '40 Ford style, with a 1.5" tube - the same diameter as the stock Willys. It's a stainless tube (I chose unpolished) and has nice bearings and a splined lower shaft. It supports horn button wiring, with the wiring exit low on the shaft which works out nice in a Willys. I'll be running a traditional clamp on turn signal switch, and will also add a thumb shifter style manual throttle.
For the wheel, I went with a new model that they had just added- which is in the style of a 50's 356 Porshe. It's about 1" smaller diameter than the stock Willys wheel. I like a big wheel, but wanted one just a little smaller than stock. It has a traditional looking black outer rim, and stainless spokes. The shallow wheel dish combined with the wheel adapter and one of their stock column lengths gave me the overall length I wanted. They were great in talking through the details on the length, putting the parts together to confirm the total length while I was on the phone.
The wheel is one of the first four samples from their manufacturing run. Each one was made to demonstrate slightly different finish treatments - full polished, brushed, and in between variants. The final product has the fully polished shiny finish, but the less polished proto was the best fit to what I have in mind. They sent me pics of all of them so I could choose the one I liked best, which was cool. Great folks at Limeworks!
They make column mount parts too, but I wanted to make my own to better fit the space, and the style of the build
Here's some pics:
To mount the column, the pedal box needed to be completed by adding a tie in to the dash - to minimize flexing of the firewall from pedal force, and to provide support of the steering column drop. I originally was going to just weld a support piece onto the box, but decided to make the support piece detachable. The main reason was for service flexibility - to allow the pedal box to be removable from the top (lifting it up with the cowl removed), or out the bottom with the cowl and dash in place - it can be removed in either direction.
Here's what it turned out like:
The column drop is made from 304 stainless with a 304 "mountable collar" from McMaster Carr as a part of it. I bought a couple in case I screwed one up... The ID needed to be enlarged to better clear the bearing flange at the base of the column tube, so the collar would slide onto the shaft. On the first one I went a little too far and the fit was sloppy. The second one turned out good- only had to open up about 0.010". It slides on readily , and clamps well when tightened. The shape was also tweaked a little further - the faces were turned to thin it down to 1/2" thick, put a bigger radius on one end, and the finish is a little smoother. The final part is on the left, the original (with botched ID change) is on the right:
The collar clamp is attached onto the back of an 11 g 304 SS plate with a couple of 1/4-20 button head screws. The plate has a formed flange that attaches to the dash & pedal box column support:
One issue that I haven't addressed yet is the turn signal wiring and thumb shifter based manual throttle lever cable housing - both of which will run down the column and need to get past the column drop. I don't want to disrupt the collar clamp, so I think I may drill a hole in each of the upper corners just outside of the collar, add grommets, and run the wiring through the left and the throttle cable through the right. Will deal with that when doing wiring.
Floor mount in the next post. This little stuff sure takes a lot of time!
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #148
Steering Column Floor Mount:
The column floor mount is 304 stainless to match the column tube and dash mount. Took some time in fitting it to get the angle set right. The tube section is 1.5" ID/ 1.75" OD. Like the dash column mount collar, the ID needed to be increased a little on the lathe to get it to slide over the little flange on the end of the column bearing, while keeping a reasonably close fit to the tube.
There's a 10-32 screw threaded in the bottom of the mount to fix the column tube in position. There's a small matching hole drilled in the underside of the tube. It doesn't provide much strength - it's primarily to set a consistent column position in the mount and so that it doesn't rotate. It also sets the position of the column u -joint relative to the firewall. In combination with the upper dash clamp, the column is very solidly secured.
There's a single, collapsible double D shaft from the column to the steering box, and the upper u-joint is bigger than the firewall and column clamp openings- so the connecting shaft would have a tough time punching the column back through the firewall in an accident. The mount also seals the firewall around the column.
Here's some pics of the mount. The first shows the argon back purge set up for TIG welding the pieces together- aluminum foil is sure handy for trapping the purge area.
I was happy with it initially, but after connecting the steering column, shaft, and box, I gave it a workout and noticed a clicking sound that bugged me. It was coming from the column floor mount. The clicking was due to the slight clearance I made to allow the lower column bearing flange to pass through the mount. The flange is a little larger diameter than the column tube itself. Creating enough clearance for it to slide through resulted in enough slop in the fit of the column tube to allow it to wiggle and click with steering direction reversal. It seemed pretty tight, but I should have known better and either press fit the mount on the column tube and then inserted the bearing once in place, or made the mount firmly clamp the tube...
Fixed the problem by modifying the mount to clamp the tube. It worked out well enough that I can pretend that I planned it that way.
Made a boss from round 304 stainless, threaded for a 1/4 - 20 screw on one half the length , and clearance bored on the other half. Then filed a radius on one side to fit it across the column mount tube. This was welded to the bottom of the tube. Clamping it for tack welds was a little puzzle, and I ended up using a v-block vice jaw I had. The "Panavise" vice was also handy for positioning the part for final welding:
After welding the boss around all sides, the boss and tube were split with a hand hack saw and filed clean with a needle file to finish the clamp feature.
The hole at the bottom of the cut was already there for the original 10-32 set screw, and keeps the slit from propagating into a crack. I left the hole threads intact and used the set screw, in addition to the clamp. The set screw inserts into a hole in the column tube, and I like the positive location reference it provides so the column and u-joint joint positions are set at the same depth whenever reassembled. Here's the finished fix. No more clicking!
The column floor mount is 304 stainless to match the column tube and dash mount. Took some time in fitting it to get the angle set right. The tube section is 1.5" ID/ 1.75" OD. Like the dash column mount collar, the ID needed to be increased a little on the lathe to get it to slide over the little flange on the end of the column bearing, while keeping a reasonably close fit to the tube.
There's a 10-32 screw threaded in the bottom of the mount to fix the column tube in position. There's a small matching hole drilled in the underside of the tube. It doesn't provide much strength - it's primarily to set a consistent column position in the mount and so that it doesn't rotate. It also sets the position of the column u -joint relative to the firewall. In combination with the upper dash clamp, the column is very solidly secured.
There's a single, collapsible double D shaft from the column to the steering box, and the upper u-joint is bigger than the firewall and column clamp openings- so the connecting shaft would have a tough time punching the column back through the firewall in an accident. The mount also seals the firewall around the column.
Here's some pics of the mount. The first shows the argon back purge set up for TIG welding the pieces together- aluminum foil is sure handy for trapping the purge area.
I was happy with it initially, but after connecting the steering column, shaft, and box, I gave it a workout and noticed a clicking sound that bugged me. It was coming from the column floor mount. The clicking was due to the slight clearance I made to allow the lower column bearing flange to pass through the mount. The flange is a little larger diameter than the column tube itself. Creating enough clearance for it to slide through resulted in enough slop in the fit of the column tube to allow it to wiggle and click with steering direction reversal. It seemed pretty tight, but I should have known better and either press fit the mount on the column tube and then inserted the bearing once in place, or made the mount firmly clamp the tube...
Fixed the problem by modifying the mount to clamp the tube. It worked out well enough that I can pretend that I planned it that way.
Made a boss from round 304 stainless, threaded for a 1/4 - 20 screw on one half the length , and clearance bored on the other half. Then filed a radius on one side to fit it across the column mount tube. This was welded to the bottom of the tube. Clamping it for tack welds was a little puzzle, and I ended up using a v-block vice jaw I had. The "Panavise" vice was also handy for positioning the part for final welding:
After welding the boss around all sides, the boss and tube were split with a hand hack saw and filed clean with a needle file to finish the clamp feature.
The hole at the bottom of the cut was already there for the original 10-32 set screw, and keeps the slit from propagating into a crack. I left the hole threads intact and used the set screw, in addition to the clamp. The set screw inserts into a hole in the column tube, and I like the positive location reference it provides so the column and u-joint joint positions are set at the same depth whenever reassembled. Here's the finished fix. No more clicking!
Last edited:
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #149
Finishing steering shaft set-up.
I had previously cut a hole through the front cross member for routing the steering shaft joint, but cut it undersized and left unfinished until the column was mounted so I could fine tune the fit. With the column mounted, it was time to open up the pass thru to final size and alignment and weld in an insert. The close quarters alongside the frame rail and cross member made opening up the hole and TIG welding in the insert a bit challenging. Glad I didn't mess it up- phew!
Here's some details and photos:
There's a Borgeson u-joint / vibration damper at the steering box, and it's long enough to pass through the cross member with access to its set screws on each side. The pass thru tube is 2.875" OD/ 2.625" ID, which is big enough to provide plenty of clearance for the joint body including tipping it upward towards the column as it goes through the pass thru from the steering box, and small enough that the insert stays within the cross-member height. The tube insert is angled up and to the side slightly to be well spaced along the path of the joint. To get a good fit, after the u-joints and shaft were mounted, I marked the final cross member opening size evenly spaced around the joint. Then the holes were opened up to the outlines with a saw and half round file until the tube section fit through. The tube was then marked while positioned in the cross member- to get the angle cuts on its ends so they would be flush when positioned in the angled opening.
First pic shows the fitted, chamfered insert. Second shows to completed welds:
Once the pass through tube was welded in, the drivers side lower radiator mount could also be welded on the back of the cross member, just above the steering pass through. (The passenger side radiator mount was welded on a long time ago, but I held off on the driver's side mount to have access to weld the steering shaft cross member insert.) The next photo shows the set screw access on the back of the u-joint/ vibration damper, which is just underneath the lower radiator mount. The joint set screw is easy to reach from underneath (turn the steering wheel to point the screws inward or down) and there's plenty of clearance under the radiator mount. It looks close in the pic due to the angle of the camera, but the joint sits about an inch below the mount.
The next shows the access to the front set screw of the u-joint/ vibration damper, just ahead of the cross member. Close, but enough room to access the set screw and lock nut.
The shaft is a Borgeson collapsible double D. Here are some views of the routing. It worked out nicely to be a single shaft with no need for an intermediate u-joint and pillow block. One concern is whether the column u-joint will get too hot near the header and cook its lubricant. It's about 1.5" below the tube. Stainless headers don't conduct and radiate as much heat as regular steel, but it's a concern. It might make sense to add a shield on the header at that spot.
I couldn't resist adding a glamour shot with the radiator sitting on the lower mounts. The mounts will have rubber pads, and the top mount will tie into a cage hoop behind the grill, outboard of the headlight buckets.
Put the grill, anti-rocks, and winch back on for fun, and to reclaim some floor space in the garage. I'd like to remove the radiator logo paint at some point- might see if dissolves in acetone without mechanically messing up the fins. On a related front, there will be another post coming up that will show the stainless chaff screen added inside the grill opening ahead of the radiator.
I had previously cut a hole through the front cross member for routing the steering shaft joint, but cut it undersized and left unfinished until the column was mounted so I could fine tune the fit. With the column mounted, it was time to open up the pass thru to final size and alignment and weld in an insert. The close quarters alongside the frame rail and cross member made opening up the hole and TIG welding in the insert a bit challenging. Glad I didn't mess it up- phew!
Here's some details and photos:
There's a Borgeson u-joint / vibration damper at the steering box, and it's long enough to pass through the cross member with access to its set screws on each side. The pass thru tube is 2.875" OD/ 2.625" ID, which is big enough to provide plenty of clearance for the joint body including tipping it upward towards the column as it goes through the pass thru from the steering box, and small enough that the insert stays within the cross-member height. The tube insert is angled up and to the side slightly to be well spaced along the path of the joint. To get a good fit, after the u-joints and shaft were mounted, I marked the final cross member opening size evenly spaced around the joint. Then the holes were opened up to the outlines with a saw and half round file until the tube section fit through. The tube was then marked while positioned in the cross member- to get the angle cuts on its ends so they would be flush when positioned in the angled opening.
First pic shows the fitted, chamfered insert. Second shows to completed welds:
Once the pass through tube was welded in, the drivers side lower radiator mount could also be welded on the back of the cross member, just above the steering pass through. (The passenger side radiator mount was welded on a long time ago, but I held off on the driver's side mount to have access to weld the steering shaft cross member insert.) The next photo shows the set screw access on the back of the u-joint/ vibration damper, which is just underneath the lower radiator mount. The joint set screw is easy to reach from underneath (turn the steering wheel to point the screws inward or down) and there's plenty of clearance under the radiator mount. It looks close in the pic due to the angle of the camera, but the joint sits about an inch below the mount.
The next shows the access to the front set screw of the u-joint/ vibration damper, just ahead of the cross member. Close, but enough room to access the set screw and lock nut.
The shaft is a Borgeson collapsible double D. Here are some views of the routing. It worked out nicely to be a single shaft with no need for an intermediate u-joint and pillow block. One concern is whether the column u-joint will get too hot near the header and cook its lubricant. It's about 1.5" below the tube. Stainless headers don't conduct and radiate as much heat as regular steel, but it's a concern. It might make sense to add a shield on the header at that spot.
I couldn't resist adding a glamour shot with the radiator sitting on the lower mounts. The mounts will have rubber pads, and the top mount will tie into a cage hoop behind the grill, outboard of the headlight buckets.
Put the grill, anti-rocks, and winch back on for fun, and to reclaim some floor space in the garage. I'd like to remove the radiator logo paint at some point- might see if dissolves in acetone without mechanically messing up the fins. On a related front, there will be another post coming up that will show the stainless chaff screen added inside the grill opening ahead of the radiator.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #150
Turn Signal Switch
Another steering column related thing completed was this little fun and games diversion project- modifying the aesthetics of the turn signal switch I bought with the steering column. It's a traditional style hot rod unit from Limeworks, and has a nice machined and polished aluminum case. It goes well with hot rods with finned valve covers, finned bee hive oil filter cases, etc.. but I thought the fins were out of place for the aesthetic I'm going for, and I bought it with the intent to simplify the lines a bit.
Here's the unit as purchased:
I took the innards out of the case, put some tape on the sides to protect the finish, and then went after it with a Vixen file to shave off the fins. The case is plenty thick on the top, so I could remove the fins and round the edges a little to make it visually smaller and cleaner.
Once shaved, then did some finer file work , sanding, and then finish polish by hand with some simichrome polish I had around.
Looks better to my eye:
Another steering column related thing completed was this little fun and games diversion project- modifying the aesthetics of the turn signal switch I bought with the steering column. It's a traditional style hot rod unit from Limeworks, and has a nice machined and polished aluminum case. It goes well with hot rods with finned valve covers, finned bee hive oil filter cases, etc.. but I thought the fins were out of place for the aesthetic I'm going for, and I bought it with the intent to simplify the lines a bit.
Here's the unit as purchased:
I took the innards out of the case, put some tape on the sides to protect the finish, and then went after it with a Vixen file to shave off the fins. The case is plenty thick on the top, so I could remove the fins and round the edges a little to make it visually smaller and cleaner.
Once shaved, then did some finer file work , sanding, and then finish polish by hand with some simichrome polish I had around.
Looks better to my eye:
