CJ5 Questions - Don't flame me

DRTDEVL

DRTDEVL

Mothfukle
Joined
May 19, 2020
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78
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Austin... TX? Nope. Minnesota!
Crossing to the dark side with a CJ5 that fell in my lap (I hail from the 4Runner and Land Cruiser world). After a bit of tinkering, I got it running well enough to move under its own power and took it to the end of my cul-de-sac. Holy FAWK that thing is dangerous. I need to take pics of the steering setup, but there's the gist of it: It has quite a bit of lift - more than enough for the 33s under it. Probably a 4" plus a spring-over. The pitman arm is stock, and points straight back. The drag link and tie rods are stock. The drag link sits at nearly a 45 degree angle. :eek:

Can we say bump steer? Hit the gas, it darts left. Hit the brakes, it darts right. Hit a bump? Hang on for the ride!

The longest drop pitman I can find is only for 3-4" lift, so that's not enough. I have seen some stuff online about a "tie rod flip." What is needed for that? How much lift will that compensate? Will it be a problem with the spring-over swap already there?

It would seem most everything is present (in boxes in the back) in the Jeep for a power steering swap, not sure if I want to mess with that, or if I should do the swap, then worry about the bump steer.

I'll be back in a minute with a couple pics off my phone.
 
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Power steering swap moves the box I think, so if you're doing it, I'd do it as a solution.

Brennan's Garage makes a clean power steering pump bracket for the dauntless.

And it's an 83" wheelbase with ~55" WMS axles on 33's. It's going to be a handful!
 
I had a 78 with 304 and stupid 3 speed trans. Can't say I ever had any steering issues. Jump under there and see what is loose.

As a rule of thumb a jeep should never go over 40mph LOL
 
Spring under it with the 4" springs and it will drive less like a skateboard and more like a truck. You'll thank me later.
Neat fact. The cj5 box is a slower ratio than the cj7, just because the wheelbase was that short. :laughing:
 
I reccomend BDS 4" springs , under the axles. Those with a drop pitman arm is a nice trouble free setup. Will ride "solid" I would say, not real smooth but generally going to feel planted for a cj.

If you like to fab, then do 4" YJ springs, which requires new spring/shackle hangers. YJ springs do ride nicer.
 
Circling back to this, I realize I never mentioned anything about the sketchy brakes. After finally getting back on this project, I rebuilt the carburetor and it runs like a top now. Stopping, however, was another animal altogether. I had to stand on the brakes and it would barely stop, but on gravel it would lock up the right rear tire. Anytime I was stopping it on pavement from a slow speed, I could feel everything torquing around the right rear wheel.

After massive adjustments and bleeding on the brakes, now it just primarily brakes with the rear brakes, not the front. Upon further inspection, I realized the brake lines were installed wrong by whoever replaced them... They hooked front reservoir to front brakes and rear reservoir to rear brakes, thereby putting a majority of the stopping power in the rear.

Next time I look at it, I will swap the lines and re-bleed the brakes for the umpteenth time and see how it stops. It may still need a master in the end, but I just need to get this thing driving well enough to sell it.

Another twist: I had my windshield guy order up a windshield and come out to replace it. He called me on Wednesday when he was doing the job to say that the windshield they ordered did not fit. The part number cross referenced properly, but it just would not go... He called me today to say that all the cross referencing he does says the windshield is the proper one and there is something different about mine. He would have to go to a custom glass cutter and get one made at a greater expense. I did a little quick looking around online, and I found the problem: It appears to have a 75-83 windshield frame and top installed rather than the 74 and earlier frame. I left him a voicemail this evening explaining what I found, so hopefully he'll be able to order one for a 75-83 and install it.

Soon, I will get around to installing the rest of the lift kit that is sitting in boxes (some brackets and the shocks), The heavy duty tie rod, and possibly even the power steering. I also found a drop pitman arm under the seat, hopefully that fits this steering box so I don't have to worry about doing the swap.
 
Opiebennett said:
Power steering swap moves the box I think, so if you're doing it, I'd do it as a solution.

Brennan's Garage makes a clean power steering pump bracket for the dauntless.

And it's an 83" wheelbase with ~55" WMS axles on 33's. It's going to be a handful!
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Needs a Detroit to trifecta the e ticket ride cred...
 
DRTDEVL said:
Circling back to this, I realize I never mentioned anything about the sketchy brakes. After finally getting back on this project, I rebuilt the carburetor and it runs like a top now. Stopping, however, was another animal altogether. I had to stand on the brakes and it would barely stop, but on gravel it would lock up the right rear tire. Anytime I was stopping it on pavement from a slow speed, I could feel everything torquing around the right rear wheel.

After massive adjustments and bleeding on the brakes, now it just primarily brakes with the rear brakes, not the front. Upon further inspection, I realized the brake lines were installed wrong by whoever replaced them... They hooked front reservoir to front brakes and rear reservoir to rear brakes, thereby putting a majority of the stopping power in the rear.

Next time I look at it, I will swap the lines and re-bleed the brakes for the umpteenth time and see how it stops. It may still need a master in the end, but I just need to get this thing driving well enough to sell it.

Another twist: I had my windshield guy order up a windshield and come out to replace it. He called me on Wednesday when he was doing the job to say that the windshield they ordered did not fit. The part number cross referenced properly, but it just would not go... He called me today to say that all the cross referencing he does says the windshield is the proper one and there is something different about mine. He would have to go to a custom glass cutter and get one made at a greater expense. I did a little quick looking around online, and I found the problem: It appears to have a 75-83 windshield frame and top installed rather than the 74 and earlier frame. I left him a voicemail this evening explaining what I found, so hopefully he'll be able to order one for a 75-83 and install it.

Soon, I will get around to installing the rest of the lift kit that is sitting in boxes (some brackets and the shocks), The heavy duty tie rod, and possibly even the power steering. I also found a drop pitman arm under the seat, hopefully that fits this steering box so I don't have to worry about doing the swap.
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I thought the older cj5 windshields had the wiper motor outside on the front vs the newer ones on the inside by the driver A pillar.

It is possible they grabbed a YJ windshield, which would work but the dash brackets would need to be modified since the spacing is like 1.5" off. Also the windshield vents would be different too.
 
Oh, as for steering, see if you can high steer that thing. At a minimum get the drag link on top. Tie rod is a bonus.
 
D_JEEPER said:
I thought the older cj5 windshields had the wiper motor outside on the front vs the newer ones on the inside by the driver A pillar.

It is possible they grabbed a YJ windshield, which would work but the dash brackets would need to be modified since the spacing is like 1.5" off. Also the windshield vents would be different too.
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Look closer at my interior pictures from last year. The chrome cover over the wiper motor... on the inside by the driver a pillar. Hence my revaluation about the wrong windshield bring ordered. Right for the year and model, but wrong for the current application.
 
I swapped the brake lines, and it stops... Okay-ish. I need to bleed the lines again after opening the system, but I'm too sore after my one-man bleeding yesterday to do it.

I got down my road and actually got into second gear to pick up some speed, and that's when I realized this thing has a massive driveline vibration.

How screwed am I? It appears the spring perches have been booger welded on the axle tubes with an extreme pinion angle.

Will a CV shaft fix this, or am I stuck breaking it all down, cutting it off, and starting that rear end over from scratch?
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DRTDEVL said:
I swiped the brake lines, and it stops... Okay-ish. I need to bleed the lines again after opening the system, but I'm too sore after my one-man bleeding yesterday to do it.

I got down my road and actually got into second gear to pick up some speed, and that's when I realized this thing has a massive driveway vibration.

How screwed am I? It appears the spring perches have been booger welded on the axle tubes with an extreme pinion angle.

Will a CV shaft fix this, or am I stuck breaking it all down, cutting it off, and starting that rear end over from scratch?
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Someone smarter than me will chime in I'm sure, it's been a long time since I messed with a lifted Jeep and the short driveshaft. That pinion angle MIGHT work with a CV at the Tcase. I'm not sure any more though. I know in general you want the pinion end and Tcase end to have matching but opposing angles. That keeps the U joints in phase. You obviously don't have that happening right now.
 
Yeah, for that setup you need a double cardan shaft. With only a pair of joints, that this is super out of phase and will vibrate as you describe.

To make your current setup work, your pinion needs to be parallel to the tcase output which is like 20 degrees down. No Bueno for u-joints. Double cardan shaft is needed.

Edit: also... that brake line to the axle from the body is super short haha. You might snap it on a good bump/droop.
 
D_JEEPER said:
Yeah, for that setup you need a double cardan shaft. With only a pair of joints, that this is super out of phase and will vibrate as you describe.

To make your current setup work, your pinion needs to be parallel to the tcase output which is like 20 degrees down. No Bueno for u-joints. Double cardan shaft is needed.

Edit: also... that brake line to the axle from the body is super short haha. You might snap it on a good bump/droop.
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Whoever put this thing together was definitely building a beautiful lawn ornament.
 
DRTDEVL said:
I guess I'm going to be measuring in the morning and ordering a double cardan shaft from Tom Woods.
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Not sure if this would help but I have a 1310 one here. 16" collapsed. Could use a new ujoint on one side? Pay the trip. Might fit in a flat rate haha
 
Opiebennett said:
Will need a different yoke too.
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Very possibly if the bolts wont pass through but I think this one would work. Looks like he has the straps setup rather than the clamp type
 
I measured this one extended and it only seems to extend 2.5".... let me work on it and see if it will extend any more. Might be sludged up.
 
I have a 4" RE lift on my CJ5 and a flat pitman arm and it really doesn't have bad bump steer at all. I'd dump one of your lifts, either SO or springs. A 3-4"lift is plenty for 33's, that's the size tires I have on mine and they fit fine. When I had the stock Dana 20 case and AMC 20 axle the rear shaft was not at a too steep of an angle. I could drive around at 60-65 fine, that's about all I could do with 33's and 4.10 gears anyway. I fell into a Dana 18 case and offset and locked Waggy 44 rear axle with 4.10's and swapped those in it. The rear shaft angle is minimal now. I had tried a dropped pitman arm initially but it ****ed with equal side to side steering. Someone at at the old site said to just run a flat pitman, and that has been trouble free so far. The only issue with steering is from getting on it with the locked rear when on the highway, it can dart then. Here's a picture of the drag link angle on it as it sits now.
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Wheelerfreak said:
I have a 4" RE lift on my CJ5 and a flat pitman arm and it really doesn't have bad bump steer at all. I'd dump one of your lifts, either SO or springs. A 3-4"lift is plenty for 33's, that's the size tires I have on mine and they fit fine. When I had the stock Dana 20 case and AMC 20 axle the rear shaft was not at a too steep of an angle. I could drive around at 60-65 fine, that's about all I could do with 33's and 4.10 gears anyway. I fell into a Dana 18 case and offset and locked Waggy 44 rear axle with 4.10's and swapped those in it. The rear shaft angle is minimal now. I had tried a dropped pitman arm initially but it ****ed with equal side to side steering. Someone at at the old site said to just run a flat pitman, and that has been trouble free so far. The only issue with steering is from getting on it with the locked rear when on the highway, it can dart then. Here's a picture of the drag link angle on it as it sits now.
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I would love to ditch one of the lifts, but I don't have the original parts to convert anything back... I don't know how much was changed to convert it to spring over, and I don't have the stock springs, either. I'm kind of stuck with what I have, and I'm trying to get this thing moved down the road pretty quickly so I can have it ready for sale before a large Jeep swap meet and show in 6 weeks.
 
Oh crap. Not gonna lie, I flaked on this. Im going out to the shop in a bit today. Ill try to take that dust seal off and see what the limit is. I feel like it should have more than that for a stroke haha
 
I did get the driveshaft to open up a little more but it really is that stubby. I could get it to extend further but only by slipping out beyond the dust seal cap thing (which is now ripped out...oops).

Shaft is still yours if you'd like to have it and retube it or something.
 
That thing must ride like the axles are welded to the frame with those thick ass leaf packs. I counted 9 leafs that appear to be stacked 2"+ thick!

I would switch it to spring under and remove about half of those leafs. That thing sits WAY too high for my liking.
 
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