Steering stops

Big4x4ride

Big4x4ride

Red Skull
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Member Number
3584
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Loc
Corpus Christi TX
Spinoff from the Barnes/FK Heims thread. What is the consensus on steering stops with full hydro or hydro assist?

Hydro assist - Steering box and ram should hit their stops together, and mechanical stop on axle just shy of touching??

Full hydro - Ram is the limit, and mechanical stop on axle just shy of touching??


Really curious how guys are doing this. Currently I wheel a 1 ton swapped JKU with assist. My box and ram stop together and I am slightly off the mechanical stops. In the future I intend to redrill the steering arm to allow slightly more travel (longer ram obviously needed then). My thought it stay the same, have the box and ram stop together and mechanical stop on axle as close as you can get without actually hitting? Trying to keep added stress of the steering box sector shaft is my biggest concern as its know to be a weak link.
 
My hydro assist is setup so the ram is my steering stop. My brain is too smooth to get everything to precisely stop at the same time and be just off the mechanical stop, so I went with the next strongest component of the system.
 
I limit the cylinder and knuckles synchronously and have also machined internal stops for the steering piston 3 for 3.
 
Hydro assist here. Ram and steering stops on knuckle at the same time. McMaster car sells aluminum picks of various thicknesses to put in the ram internally to achieve the correct throw. Steering box just shy of its stops. Sometimes I’ve had to make a longer pitman arm to get the throw from a Toyota box and Dana 60 axle. Most people don’t have their hydro assist setup correctly.
 
I set my stops to just touch at full turn on the ram. The stops will stop the ram even if they hit before full turn. But why not get as many degrees as you can?
 
When I bought my Full Hydro, PSC said cut off the stops and let the Ram be the stop. Not saying it’s wrong or right, but that was what I was told. So far has worked fine for the past 8 years.
 
Has anyone ever seen a steering ram blow it's guts out all by itself? As in there were no secondary stops in the mix.
 
gt1guy said:
Has anyone ever seen a steering ram blow it's guts out all by itself? As in there were no secondary stops in the mix.
Click to expand...
Not I. I’ve hurt rams in ways that seem unpossible but never had a blow out. Using the ram as the steer stops the end caps come unscrewed far enough to let the outer o-ring blow out is the most common issue we’ve had. Had to get creative to keep the end caps from being able to turn.
 
JR4X said:
Not I. I’ve hurt rams in ways that seem unpossible but never had a blow out. Using the ram as the steer stops the end caps come unscrewed far enough to let the outer o-ring blow out is the most common issue we’ve had. Had to get creative to keep the end caps from being able to turn.
Click to expand...
Found a new thing to paint pen, my ram end cap :laughing:
 
Diablo169 said:
When I bought my Full Hydro, PSC said cut off the stops and let the Ram be the stop. Not saying it’s wrong or right, but that was what I was told. So far has worked fine for the past 8 years.
Click to expand...
That's how my DE full hydro's been set up since 2006.....
 
Full hydro w/ dual ended ram. I've got the Chevy D60 knuckle stops adjusted to contact when the ram is at the end of its throw. Has worked great for the last 5-6 years.
 
bad zuki said:
Yes, normally they just bend the rod.
Click to expand...

I'm not understanding how the rod bends just from going to full stroke. I was asking about no other hard stops in the mix. Same as if the ram was just sitting on a bench all by itself and you put pressure to it.

JR4X said:
Not I. I’ve hurt rams in ways that seem unpossible but never had a blow out. Using the ram as the steer stops the end caps come unscrewed far enough to let the outer o-ring blow out is the most common issue we’ve had. Had to get creative to keep the end caps from being able to turn.
Click to expand...

Ah ok. That's great info. Makes the case for having the knuckle stops make contact at the same time as the ram. Any tricks to keep the caps from backing off you want to share?

I wish when I was ordering my part and they said to have everything stop at the same time, instead of saying "Ok" I said "Why".
 
gt1guy said:
Ah ok. That's great info. Makes the case for having the knuckle stops make contact at the same time as the ram. Any tricks to keep the caps from backing off you want to share?

I wish when I was ordering my part and they said to have everything stop at the same time, instead of saying "Ok" I said "Why".
Click to expand...
Jesse Haines or Richard Hulse style clamps are the best way. I think they both sell these.

IMG_6551.jpeg
IMG_6553.jpeg
 
Bought the Hulse ones for our portal cars...they are NICE, but heavy. Sux that JHF doesn't have a better website. His look a LOT lighter.
 
JR4X said:
If you’re going to put water in your tires I wouldn’t be to concerned with a couple extra pounds on the axle
Click to expand...
True. Of course, I'm also the guy who has no issue running steelies over aluminum, since everyone's adding water or shot to the tires anyway. My problem has always been an overkill mindset and it all starts to add up. I tend to focus on building stuff so it's very unlikely to break on the trail since I HATE being a trail tampon or working on my junk in the middle of a trail. I'm hoping with the portal cars that I can finally really think things out and determine where I can skimp to save some weight (within reason) and still keep things reliable while not taking too much of a hit in capability. Basically, I want to have my cake and eat it too....which is probably a losing strategy in this game.
 
gt1guy said:
I'm not understanding how the rod bends just from going to full stroke. I was asking about no other hard stops in the mix. Same as if the ram was just sitting on a bench all by itself and you put pressure to it.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure I have the context correct between you two.

This is how one would build to bend ram shafts. If the tire has more resistance to move than the ram shaft has resistance to bend but the piston has more than enough force to go that direction anyway. You are better off using the ram mount as a bumper than mounting it like this. Might take me a week to find it but I know where there’s a video of that exact thing happening if you’re not seeing where and how the force applied would bend ram shaft right there.

IMG_6561.jpeg
 
JR4X said:
I’m not sure I have the context correct between you two.

This is how one would build to bend ram shafts. If the tire has more resistance to move than the ram shaft has resistance to bend but the piston has more than enough force to go that direction anyway. You are better off using the ram mount as a bumper than mounting it like this. Might take me a week to find it but I know where there’s a video of that exact thing happening if you’re not seeing where and how the force applied would bend ram shaft right there.

IMG_6561.jpeg
Click to expand...

Damn, ya, that's shaft bending geometry right there. The greater the angle of the tie rods, the easier it will be to bend the shafts.

That definitely isn't what I was asking about with the question " Has anyone ever seen a steering ram blow it's guts out all by itself? As in there were no secondary stops in the mix."
That's also why the answer from bad zuki zuki confused me. And that's why I tried to fine tune the question with " I'm not understanding how the rod bends just from going to full stroke. I was asking about no other hard stops in the mix. Same as if the ram was just sitting on a bench all by itself and you put pressure to it."
Red part being the key.

Funny derale is that if you look at the two pictures you posted.

img_6553-jpeg.905782

​

And here.

img_6561-jpeg.906564



The tie rod angles look to be the same............but there's a big difference.

In the top picture, when the wheels are turned full driver and the ram shaft on that side is at it's weakest. It sure looks like the tie rod will be straight inline with the ram shaft. As long as the height of the ram and the knuckle mount is the same, it's perfect.

In the bottom picture the two will never line up and if there's any misalignment in the top view it will be even worse.


Speaking to the chior I know, but may be helpful to someone.
 
Last edited:
My understanding with DE ram setups, ideally you want the ram shaft and tie rods to be in as close to a straight line as possible when turned full lock each way.
 
Last edited:
gt1guy said:
. I was asking about no other hard stops in the mix. Same as if the ram was just sitting on a bench all by itself and you put pressure to it."
Red part being the key.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there’s a pressure that would blow it apart but we aren’t creating that amount of psi with the pumps we all use. The ram is built to be it’s own stop so you aren’t hurting it by hitting the piston to the end cap no matter how many times. My IFS Bronco, the only steer stops have at all, is the ram. I damaged a ram hitting a tree at speed last year but I was glad it was the ram that was the weak spot and not the portal
 
Big4x4ride said:
My understanding with DE ram setups, ideally you want the ram shaft and tie rods to be in as close to a straight line as possible when turned full lock each way.
Click to expand...
That's my understanding as well.
 
JR4X said:
I’m not sure I have the context correct between you two.

This is how one would build to bend ram shafts. If the tire has more resistance to move than the ram shaft has resistance to bend but the piston has more than enough force to go that direction anyway. You are better off using the ram mount as a bumper than mounting it like this. Might take me a week to find it but I know where there’s a video of that exact thing happening if you’re not seeing where and how the force applied would bend ram shaft right there.

IMG_6561.jpeg
Click to expand...
Yeah, that just looks like completely ****ed geometry.
 
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