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Soft shackles and kinetic ropes

popo_patty said:
If it matters at all, the Bronco-side bumper clevis mount broke before the Jeep side soft shackle did… clevis sheared off from the impact of the very hefty pull (which by the way threw everything in the Bronco around and knocked the occupants off balance). When the Clevis sheared, it jammed into the bumpers outer shell, trying to pull it off and twisting the bumper in the process. Only the massive, grade 8 bolts still in the Clevis, prevented it from flying out and going into the Jeep. Of course once the bumper stopped giving, all the force went to the Jeep side and the soft shackle was up to bat and failed.
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Steel shackle on the Bronco proved to be stronger than (improperly used) soft shackle and Bronco's aftermarket front bumper. What's more to discuss, or argue, here?
 
Bebop said:
Other options :

www.factor55.com

The Splicer

The world’s first splice on synthetic rope shackle mounting thimble with rope protection and integrated rubber pad. The unique machined rope passage provides a tough outer barrier to protect against rope impact and abrasion as well as UV exposure protection. Compatible with synthetic ropes up to...
www.factor55.com www.factor55.com

www.factor55.com

Flat Splicer

The Flat Splicer is the world’s first splice on folding winch rope shackle mount thimble. Finished in a durable Mil-Spec hard anodized surface, the Flat Splicer can be folded flat against winch fairleads minimizing vehicle frontal protrusion.
www.factor55.com www.factor55.com
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Those do seem to give you a proper bend radius for the rope.
 
TrailTamer said:
Steel shackle on the Bronco proved to be stronger than (improperly used) soft shackle and Bronco's aftermarket front bumper. What's more to discuss, or argue, here?
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Have you not been paying attention to the ibb?:lmao:
 
ApeEater said:
I think the point was, completely writing off soft shackles due to this specific incident isn't really necessary.
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I wasn't writing them off.

All things considered in this case, don't slap on some fancy influencer products like factor55 and thinks you're good to go. That Bronco's bumper almost came off.... :eek:
 
I feel the need to address something mentioned in the video....who the fuck is carrying an AED in their rig? :shocked:
 
Funny thing is that both of the clubs I bailed on bought one last year...
Psa
Don't have an occasion to need one...:flipoff2:
 
DocRamsay said:
I feel the need to address something mentioned in the video....who the fuck is carrying an AED in their rig? :shocked:
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Are any of us getting younger every year?:flipoff2:

If someone can afford it and wants to carry one, more power to them. If you have to do CPR on someone with help an hour or more away, that person is dead.

I just happen to go through a offshore water survival class last week. The one where they drop you in the water in the fake chopper and flip it upside down. Anyway, part of the class was first aid. The AED they had was only 6"x6"x2". Was surprised it was so small.

On a side note. If YOU are laying on the ground with no pulse, how do YOU tell someone that you happen to have an AED in your rig?:eek:
 
gt1guy said:
On a side note. If YOU are laying on the ground with no pulse, how do YOU tell someone that you happen to have an AED in your rig?:eek:
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Good point. The few times I have a passenger I'll give them a quick run down of where the first extinguisher and first aid kit is, but usually I don't have anyone riding pax. I guess have a "driver's meeting" (cringe) at the begining of the day and go over who has what? That also depends on if someone freaks the fuck out and forgets which is extremely likely. I don't have an AED and doubt I would carry one though, let me die wheeling in the woods and leave my body behind :laughing:.
 
1710021041649.png

Perhaps
 
Hooligan said:
What is your plan, jumper cables to your nipple rings?:flipoff2:
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Nah, I just call that a lazy Thursday evening.

gt1guy said:
Are any of us getting younger every year?:flipoff2:

If someone can afford it and wants to carry one, more power to them. If you have to do CPR on someone with help an hour or more away, that person is dead.

I just happen to go through a offshore water survival class last week. The one where they drop you in the water in the fake chopper and flip it upside down. Anyway, part of the class was first aid. The AED they had was only 6"x6"x2". Was surprised it was so small.

On a side note. If YOU are laying on the ground with no pulse, how do YOU tell someone that you happen to have an AED in your rig?:eek:
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I guess my comment was a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Agreed, an hour of CPR there is a fairly low chance of survival. And AED's are getting pretty cheap and smaller, it just never occurred to me to buy one and stick it in a rig without a grant or something.

That all being said, an AED doesn't do shit for a traumatic arrest, they only recognize the 2 shockable rhythms and both of those need blood in the heart to continue beating. Always a good idea to seek out more training, knowledge doesn't weigh anything.
 
DocRamsay said:
Nah, I just call that a lazy Thursday evening.


I guess my comment was a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Agreed, an hour of CPR there is a fairly low chance of survival. And AED's are getting pretty cheap and smaller, it just never occurred to me to buy one and stick it in a rig without a grant or something.

That all being said, an AED doesn't do shit for a traumatic arrest, they only recognize the 2 shockable rhythms and both of those need blood in the heart to continue beating. Always a good idea to seek out more training, knowledge doesn't weigh anything.
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Correct but you cant do harm with an aed. Most will walk you through the steps of exactly how to use it. Even with 0 medical training you can only potentially do good by trying to use one.
 
I just got a response from one company for a min. hook / anchor/ ring/ hard mount size of 3/8" for a 7/16" shackle on a 7/8" rope, Responded with a please verify...
 
arse_sidewards said:
No. It doesn't. Components are rated in force, not energy.

F = M*A. The stretch and time of the strap massively reduces the A

The reason shit goes flying more than it used to is because all that kinetic energy is momentarily getting stored in the rope which is acting as a spring so when you do put a few ten thousand pounds of tension on it and break something you've now got all that stored energy in the spring that is gonna find a way out. The straps back in the day weren't storing all the kinetic energy of a (for example) 10mph down to 2mph acceleration even if they were subject to more force, say 5mph down to 1mph over a tenth of less of the time, that energy mostly went into breaking shit, usually breaking the friction between the stuck vehicle and whatever it was in but sometimes something else.


The pulls leading up to it were even harder. It wouldn't surprise me if that first one in the forward direction was the one that did the bumper and the soft shackle didn't fuck off until the bolt head was hard against the plate and the soft shackle became the new weak link.
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Alright I will join the shitshow even though none of you asked. :flipoff2:

This is going to be a long drawn out response.

You got the right idea but your physics is wrong. The amount of force needed to get unstuck does not change, there is a certain amount of restrictive forces pulling back on the bronco keeping it stuck that have a maximum value. Once you overcome that force it will move, and it will not increase (although once in motion the force will cause it to accelerate). Draw a simple free body diagram and it will make sense. Go and push on the wall, nothing is moving, yet there is still a force between your hand and the wall. (Newton's third law). The force (in this case tension) in the rope has to reach a certain amount before it will move the stuck vehicle, regardless if it is a strap, chain, or rope, or how fast the vehicle accelerated.

If we treat the rope like a spring we can use the equation F=Kx, and energy stored in a spring uses E=1/2Kx^2. K is the spring constant for the rope, x is distance stretched, F is the force required to move the vehicle, and E is energy sent to the system (Kinetic energy from the recovery vehicle, or work produced by the distance the vehicle moved.) Solve the energy equation for x and plug it into the force equation and you end up with F=(2KE)^1/2. Solve for E we get E=(F^2)/(2K). This tells us how much energy is needed to produce the force to move the vehicle, and any other energy goes to two places, either momentum that is what gives the stuck vehicle forward velocity, or into deformation, which in the case of a rope is absorbed into the rope. That rope, since it is like a spring, also will want to return to its original shape applying a force to the vehicle helping to accelerate it through whatever else just beyond what it was stuck in, and since you are moving at a slower velocity it will be nice and gentle.

The K of a chain or strap is very large, and it will not deform much. You do not need the same amount of energy to apply the same force as a rope. But if you do that energy either has to go someplace, usually into faster velocities due to momentum (the massive jerk forward that gives you whiplash) or into deforming the recovery points/the vehicle instead of the rope/chain, which can lead to failure of the parts. You also do not get the same gentle pull after the fact.

Now the disadvantage of a rope, like you said, is it stores a ton of energy. So if it fails, it will fail pretty violently. A strap will not store as much energy, so it will fail less violently.

Keep the equipment in good shape, use it as designed, and it won't kill you. Did not watch the video but I think the tow points/frayed shackles are what caused the failure, so both of those rules were broken.
 
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Beat95yj said:
Well, I recovered a 2 door JK without soft shackles or a kinetic rope this weekend. Insane I know. Hooked it up and dragged it. 🤷‍♂️
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I only have a cheap tow strap from harbor freight. Lasted me through the last 5ish years. In times of desperation I may have used a ratchet strap...

Never had a kinetic rope and don't plan to. I just think the concept is pretty interesting and soft shackles are cool.
 
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