Rant thread

[FelixstoweF.2]

What do you think your Corporate Liability will be if one of your Armed Employee(s) shoot up a parking lot because He/She/They get all paranoid one night and think some homeless guy is trying to rob them? Do you think your client will love that press? I can see it now : Plow Jockey X and Y of Z Company out of Michigan shoot unarmed homeless person while trying to protect themselves in their vehicle-- they also shot up most of the building. That will good splashed on the headlines.

 

[Hydromaster]

You have a very rich fantasy life

 

[Hydromaster]

A gun is a safety device.

 

[Hydromaster]

I might even use mine to protect you.

 

[Hydromaster]

Clients come ,clients go.
Shot up things like buildings and cars can be fixed

I could never forgive myself. If I had to explain to a young boy whose father was shot and killed at work, why I wouldn’t allow his father to carry legally with a permit.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

A gun is a safety device.

MSN

A fender bender and a single gunshot: How a Walmart parking lot became a crime scene

Family and police cannot make sense of a shooting in Highland that began with a minor fender bender.

www.latimes.com

Auto parts store employee sentenced year after shooting customer

Ke’Laron Watson, 31, was charged with two counts of aggravated assault.

news.yahoo.com

Police: Employee shot customer during dispute at Bedford car dealership

Bedford police said a customer was shot by an employee at a car dealership on Friday.

www.cleveland19.com

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

Clients come ,clients go.
Shot up things like buildings and cars can be fixed

I could never forgive myself. If I had to explain to a young boy whose father was shot and killed at work, why I wouldn’t allow his father to carry legally with a permit.

I've worked in big cities at all hours of the night-- not once was I ever bothered at work.

 

[Hydromaster]

I’m fascinated that communist Libtards think that because someone has a weapon/gun that society is going to turn in to a lawless wasteland. That there would be piles of dead bodies, and people be shooting at each other like in some spaghetti western.

 

[Hydromaster]

MSN

A fender bender and a single gunshot: How a Walmart parking lot became a crime scene

Family and police cannot make sense of a shooting in Highland that began with a minor fender bender.

www.latimes.com

Auto parts store employee sentenced year after shooting customer

Ke’Laron Watson, 31, was charged with two counts of aggravated assault.

news.yahoo.com

Police: Employee shot customer during dispute at Bedford car dealership

Bedford police said a customer was shot by an employee at a car dealership on Friday.

www.cleveland19.com

I carry for your safety and mine.

 

[Hydromaster]

According to the data, America’s 18 million+ concealed-carry permit holders accounted for 801 firearm-related homicides over a 15-year span, which amounts to roughly 0.7% of all firearm-related homicides during that time.

That percentage drops even lower if any of the defendants in the 72 cases still pending in court are determined to have acted in lawful self-defense.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

According to the data, America’s 18 million+ concealed-carry permit holders accounted for 801 firearm-related homicides over a 15-year span, which amounts to roughly 0.7% of all firearm-related homicides during that time.

That percentage drops even lower if any of the defendants in the 72 cases still pending in court are determined to have acted in lawful self-defense.

And that might get you out of criminal problems-- but you do realize there is this thing called civil liability right? Hard to fight these cases sometimes.

 

[Hydromaster]

And sometimes it’s easy to defend yourself in a civil case.
And sometimes it doesn’t happen at all.

You know you can get a personal insurance policy.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

And sometimes it’s easy to defend yourself in a civil case.
And sometimes it doesn’t happen at all.

You know you can get a personal insurance policy.

Few little hitches-- one, are you going to say that your entire staff is some how guarding your vehicles as armed guards? Then you have the issues of if you're armed on a clients property that clearly states no fire arms allowed on this premise what do you do? then you have issues of training and certifications necessary.

By the time you get done trying to jump through all those hoops and tell all your clients about how you're so paranoid you want them armed at all times in your vehicles that it ends with massive losses in profit.

But, sure I bet some greedy insurance company will float this type of insurance for you making it nearly impossible for you to actually achieve compliance so at the first sign of issue they will drop you like a turd. But, yeah, go for it. Just so you can say I'm bitching about why HR Companies and Insurance agencies aren't going to work me on this issue. Sounds totally reasonable to me.

 

[Hydromaster]

Nope, I did not hire armed guards. After obtaining a permit To carry if They choose to exercise their rights, by carry a weapon for their personal protection or to protect somebody else’s life from death or great bodily harm, not to protect property or things.

Not only am I cool with that, I promote it.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

Nope, I did not hire armed guards. After obtaining a permit To carry if They choose to exercise their rights, by carry a weapon for their personal protection or to protect somebody else’s life from death or great bodily harm, not to protect property or things.

Not only am I cool with that, I promote it.

NO, I said to get any insurance policy you will need to classify these people as something probably like an armed guard-- since I've never tried to do this I am not sure. Put I'll call a few insurance agencies to confirm my hypothesis.

Then you're going to need training. I know you might want to claim that having a Concealed Carry Permit is enough-- but you're going to have create work place standards and so on. Then you going to have to register these guns with your company most likely so that you know that person x is carrying a gun on his person.

And let's be honest the Concealed Carry Permit course in most states is a joke. The one Kentucky I took we shot a target at 5 yards away maybe. So if you cannot hit a target at 15 ft-- you probably shouldn't be shooting. And they had a target that was massive so it wasn't like anyone missed. So, you want to call that trained that's fine. But I'm pretty sure that if you and your insurance agency will part ways rather rapidly in this scenario if you don't require some sort of qualifications other than the state concealed carry permit.

Then you have the issue of will my clients appreciate my crews on their property with guns opening them up to liability issues in this case in both property damage claims and loss of life.

It seems to me any business analysis of this is one that leaves you with only negative impacts and not much in the way of positive impacts?

 

[Hydromaster]

No, you /I don’t need to classify these people
As guards or security.

No, I do not need to train these people.


It’s concealed carry the clients don’t know


These people can legally carry a firearm, and they have a permit to do so. The insurance company is not going to forbid it or partways..


Around here, you will find business owners, caring openly.

If an employee decides to take a truck and drive into a crowd or trans activists, I am not responsible for his actions.


Just like if somebody should do something illegal with their handgun.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

No, you /I don’t need to classify these people
As guards or security.

No, I do not need to train these people.

It’s concealed carry the clients don’t know

Around here, you will find business owners, caring openly.

Didn't you tell me you wanted them insured on your company Policy?

 

[Hydromaster]

I’m curious and fascinated by your position.

if the business can be held liable because you carried a gun (even with them not knowing), would they also be liable if you were injured/killed because you were unarmed and couldn’t adequately defend yourself due to a no gun policy?

What’s the difference?

I see it similar to the no guns signs for customers at a business. People say the
business should be liable if you choose if you go in there with a gun and then are harmed, which makes no sense to me…and if so, business should also be liable if you carry a gun and harm someone else.



I have never seen or heard of a case where any such liability, in any of these cases, existed. No suit, no claim, no news or blog article about it, have found nothing.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

I’m curious and fascinated by your position.

if the business can be held liable because you carried a gun (even with them not knowing), would they also be liable if you were injured/killed because you were unarmed and couldn’t adequately defend yourself due to a no gun policy?

What’s the difference?

I see it similar to the no guns signs for customers at a business. People say the
business should be liable if you choose if you go in there with a gun and then are harmed, which makes no sense to me…and if so, business should also be liable if you carry a gun and harm someone else.



I have never seen or heard of a case where any such liability, in any of these cases, existed. No suit, no claim, no news or blog article about it, have found nothing.

Are employers liable if an employee assaults someone? | theHRD

Are employers liable if an employee assaults someone?

www.thehrdirector.com

In your case you promoting arming yourself in the work place and let's say it says in your company handbook-- X, is allowed to carry a weapon with the proper permit for self-defense. You are now putting the company policy as the right to carry a weapon even if your job description doesn't necessarily warrant it. This means you've created a company policy and thus armed your employees. Which usually ends up with you being liable for their stupidity. Especially, if they aren't trained properly or have lost their right to carry a weapon in this case. It is no different then if you fail to make sure your drivers with CDL's pass their medical and drug tests when they are required to do so. If you let that slide you're on the hook as the company. And the same is true for this case too.

Walgreens in Tenn is getting sued for an employee that shot a shoplifter 7 times in a parking lot... I just gave the link it is the one that says MSN.

 

[Hydromaster]

Bla bla bla
Another scared liberal Connie thanks it’s gonna be a shoot out in the alley if people legally carry.
The facts show this isn’t happening.

A policy will not stop someone from coming to work and committing an illegal act, nor will a policy indemnify the company from litigation.


Even if they forced you to get a rider on your insurance policy, it would only be a few hundred bucks a year at most.

But then you keep scribbling outside of the lines. we’re talking about people who can legally possess a firearm and have some training. Like getting a concealed carry permit.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

Bla bla bla
Another scared liberal Connie thanks it’s gonna be a shoot out in the alley if people legally carry.
The facts show this isn’t happening.

A policy will not stop someone from coming to work and committing an illegal act, nor will a policy indemnify the company from litigation.


Even if they forced you to get a rider on your insurance policy, it would only be a few hundred bucks a year at most.

But then you keep scribbling outside of the lines. we’re talking about people who can legally possess a firearm and have some training. Like getting a concealed carry permit.

No, just being realistic given today's litigious nature. I see absolutely no upsides to promoting gun carrying in the workplace given the nature of our population. I see instead a myriad of legal liabilities that could make such a corporate policy highly problematic.

But, hey do as you like. I was just pointing out the issues with it from a legal point of view.

 

[Hydromaster]

Your view doesn’t matter.

People have the right.


I’m fascinated by your moronic views as more and more states are going to constitutional carry and not even bother with permitting their citizenry.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

Your view doesn’t matter.

People have the right.


I’m fascinated by your moronic views as more and more states are going to constitutional carry and not even bother with permitting their citizenry.

Constitutional Carry is not going to save you from liability lawsuits genius... I like how you believe your rights should supersede the rights of the client or the customer???? That's interesting to me.

 

[Hydromaster]

Could you cite the rights that you mentioned?
What rights do they have that would take away someone else’s rights?

Just because someone is carrying , doesn’t make them a murderer.
I’m not worried about any liability exposure or what may come from that, if they survive being attacked.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

Could you cite the rights that you mentioned?
What rights do they have that would take away someone else’s rights?

Just because someone is carrying , doesn’t make them a murderer.
I’m not worried about any liability exposure or what may come from that, if they survive being attacked.

Obviously, the right to tell you not to carry on their premise seems to be a serious problem for you. The right not insure you also seems to be a problem.

 

[Hydromaster]

Obviously, the right to tell you not to carry on their premise seems to be a serious problem for you. The right not insure you also seems to be a problem.

Those are not rights.

This is interesting. What does this mean?
“The right not ensure you also seems to be a problem.”


Do you know how the law works?
A sign is worthless.


Lastly, it’s called concealed carry, the property owner won’t even know. They don’t need to know as it’s none of their business.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

Those are not rights.

This is interesting. What does this mean?
“The right not ensure you also seems to be a problem.”


Do you know how the law works?
A sign is worthless.


Lastly, it’s called concealed carry, the property owner won’t even know. They don’t need to know as it’s none of their business.

Actually, the right to determine what happens on your property is very much property owner's right. As long as they state it visibly that no guns will be allowed on their property you cannot carry your gun onto it and you cannot do a damn thing about it.

 

[Hydromaster]

Actually, the right to determine what happens on your property is very much property owner's right. As long as they state it visibly that no guns will be allowed on their property you cannot carry your gun onto it and you cannot do a damn thing about it.

And you are Wrong, legally none of that is correct.

And the fact that you don’t know this makes me question that you have a permit to carry.

 

[FelixstoweF.2]

And you are Wrong

No, I'm not. If you carry a gun on my premise as a business owner I can enforce my policy of gun regulation-- that could mean asking you to put it in a safe , leave it in your car, or even ask you to leave my premise altogether. All I have to do make this work is follow my states' regulations on this issue.

Gun-Free Business Policies and Opt-Out Statutes

Opt-out statutes in state gun policies allows private businesses to restrict firearm possession in their premises. Failure to abide in business firearm policies may result in tresspassing charges and loss of permit. Find the right lawyer for your case with LegalMatch. Give us a call at (415)...

www.legalmatch.com

 

[Hydromaster]

No, I'm not. If you carry a gun on my premise as a business owner I can enforce my policy of gun regulation-- that could mean asking you to put it in a safe , leave it in your car, or even ask you to leave my premise altogether. All I have to do make this work is follow my states' regulations on this issue.

Gun-Free Business Policies and Opt-Out Statutes

Opt-out statutes in state gun policies allows private businesses to restrict firearm possession in their premises. Failure to abide in business firearm policies may result in tresspassing charges and loss of permit. Find the right lawyer for your case with LegalMatch. Give us a call at (415)...

www.legalmatch.com

Yes.
And that is not what you said before.
What you said before was wrong.


As a permit holder.
It doesn’t matter. If you have a legal gun free zone sign or whatever your state requires legally posted.. I can still walk in with my concealed gun. Legally.

If by somehow, the owner or their agent was to become alerted that I was concealed caring, and they can ask me to remove my gun from the premises, If I failed to do so, they could call the police and have me charged with trespassing.
Loss of permit, only if charged with the trespass and found guilty.
Law-enforcement is usually reluctant to write the trespass ticket and we all would agree to leave your business never to return.
You would loose customers.

Still not a right, but a law made by man.



You’re going to actually lock up somebody’s weapon in your safe? You? Mr. Liability.?


or do you think somebody is actually going to let you take their gun from them and lock it up?that’s not happening.

And you didn’t answer my question